really sorry this is happening to you.

call the police on them EVERY day if necessary, especially on the weekends when they have their fellow animals over.

this will harrass them a bit but may not necessarily work...i think it's clear the kind of "people" you're dealing with over there.

if you really don't want to move then there's only the legal option which is calling the cops then suing them and the mgt, or certain other things you can do to them. use your imagination.

again, my heart goes out to you for this horrible suffering, you do not deserve it!

Hi
I have been lurking on this site for awhile. I usually hang out at KT and Florida gardening

Next time you call the cops have them come to your apt first to listen to the noise before they go upstairs that way when the people upstairs say "we didnt do anything" the cops can say "we heard your nothing"
When I lived in NJ we were requierd to carpet 75% of the floor if we lived in a upper unit.
the fact that you have lived there for 13 years should count for something,can't you go to the copporate office sometimes they don't realize what is going on at each complex
good luck
Karla

Thanks for the post. My apartment manager asked them to carpet 80% of the apartment. What the guys did is, they put some throwway decorative rugs. The rugs have no padding or anything like that. The management seems to feel thats OK. btw- I dont think even a real carpet with an inch padding can handle the stomping of the boy. Probbaly that would mask the stomping noise of the girl.

I just don't like to call the COPS ofr these small things as I know they have to deal with other important life saving crimes on a daily basis. Besides its very hard to predict when the noise will happen and how long will it last. by the time I call the COPS and they are here probably they are quite and the cops are not even going to wait for few minutes. Also the party has kind of reduced a lot these days but the stomping in itself is hell. They basically go to theirs freinds place for party instead their freinds coming here.

I can predict a one hour window to most likely experience the stomping but the management is refusing to send someone for an hour to wait and listen.

There is no way I can move out as it will be too expensive for me. Also these folks lease ends on September 30, 2006. I hope the management atleast doesn't allow them to renew.

The only choice I've is to file a case against the apartment in the Tenant court. That will cost me money and a bad terms with the landlord. Hard choices to make.

have you tried to persuade them to move the newer tenants? Point out that your 13 years ought to make *some* difference and that it's not fair to penalize you for their misbehavior.

Or to persuade the landlord (get the managmenet agent to come and hear the noise in your apartment, for him/herself) not to renew, and then just hold out?

(and this is one big argument for not spending your own money on someone else's apartment)

Best of luck!

two things you're worried about and shouldn't be:

one, the cops "have better things to deal with". are you kidding me? this kind of aggravation can kill, my friend. besides, they are law enforcement officers whose duty and desire (hopefully) is to protect the good people of this world. go to it.

two, leaning on the complex will lead to bad terms with them...again, are you for real? they have 13 years of your money!!! forget about their feelings!!!

additionally, try contacting the local media/press, if it's a smaller community maybe they'll be interested if you can highlight the human suffering angle.

take care!

I don't think you can do anything, the mangment shouldn't do anything and the cops should be left out. You are complaing about a person walking, shutting a door and talking on the phone. How is that breaking the law or lease? They also are paying rent and have the right to enjoy their place. Sounds like its more of a building problem than this particular tenant. How would you like to be in their shoes affraid to walk accross the floor after 10 or make international calls to your family when they are awake.

I'm sorry you have this problem and stuck so much money into your apartment. The investment you made was your decision.

Best of luck but I don't think you have any rights to complain about another tenants normal living.

nfllifer, you're assuming that the noise is normal living noise though. You're right, these tenants have a right to enjoy their apartment. But not at another's expense. For instance, right now my upstairs neighbor's TV is blaring. I can hear it all through out my apartment. They apparently think the noise level is just fine. But there's no reason why I should have to be subjected to them entertaining themselves. There's no reason why the TV can't be turned down to a level that gives me some peace while still letting them watch TV. It may not be the level they or I prefer, but you can't just do what you want when you live in an apartment. But I can tell you right now if I were to call my resident manager, I'd hear something along the lines of what you just said without anyone ever even walking over here to see what it sounds like down here.

So I'd have to say that until someone else is willing to come to this apartment to hear for themselves if it's normal living noises or not, I don't think it's fair to assume that the poster's complaints aren't valid.

what interests me is that for 13 years you've had various upstairs neighbors, but you haven't ever objected to those people's TV levels or walking patterns or phone calls.

It hink if I were the manager, that might make me willing to come over and see what it was like, for myself.

"The boy walks in a way, its the worse stomping noise you have ever heard. I swaer to God he walks like an army soldier marching." "Besides they make international phone calls at night and very loud." "bang the sliding door on their apartment"

None of these items you mentioned should or really can be addressed by a manager or police.

The TV which you just mentioned should be looked at. You stated that they act like they have never lived in an aparmtent and need to be more curtious. The above complaints sound to me like you have never lived in an apartment and need to learn to adjust to other units noise.

Living there for 13 years does tell me you have had very good neighbors before. How many different tenants have lived above you?

While the noise is very annoying there just isn't much anyone can do besides the tenants just trying to be more polite. Honestly, if you owned the building what would you do? The law wouldn't allow you to evict, or give written noitice for this complaint. Even if the manager came over and observed there is nothing they leagally can do.

I lived in my own 4 plex for over 3 years. All but one tenant was very polite and quiet. The other was a nice family with a 1-2 year old. He liked to imitate Wrestling by jumping off the couch with an elbow. His Dad encouraged this and did the same. Talk about an extreamly loud bang noise. There was really nothing I could do to enforce them from not doing this again. He walked around with his huge working boots and you could hear every step. This typically occured before 6am and I didn't get up till 8. It was just part of living in an apartment.

true, the landlord can't evict. But if I were the landlord, and I had a tenant who was making noise that *I* believe was excessive, I could say to my long-term, fed-up tenant, "Hold out until their lease is up in September, because I'm not going to renew it."

And actually, I think a landlord might be able to give them written notice for jumping off the couch.

Let me summarize everthing I have been reading on this site and other related sites that reflect a growing, disturbing problem in this country, neighbors from ****: **** kids. I am a teacher and teach people the age of the OP's tormentors at a local unviversity. I enforce in my clasroom standards of professional, scholarly behavior, which includes,if one applies what I teach, NOT behaving the way these selfish, inconsiderate twentysomethings behabe. Is it the technology, cellphones plugged into ears, the media's emphasis on loud noise, that has created a lack of empathy, a blurring of what used to be public and private space behavior? Is it twentysomethings who grew up in single family dwellings moving to cities who have no concept of what living with others entails? An awkward transition for some who used to live in dormitories? A lack of screening (and I do believe one should be able to discriminate based on behavior; ask questions about behavior BEFORE renting; I sold a condo I had lived in for sixteen years precisely because the management was not discriminating in this way and also let in trashy illicit sublets made a ton of money on the sale, and now rent in a building which contains only four apartments for a landlord who (I also know him personally, which helps), because of previous problems with twenty somethings will not rent to D*** kids)? This plague of incosiderate, rude, selfish entitlement behavior may not be limited to twentysomethings, but based on my previous research on the Internet, one might formulate some hypothesis based on that claim.
Also, perhaps stricter building codes need to be enforced, but how to apply those to prexisting structures with hardwood floors would be horriby expensive. The building I moved to is an old one, but in those types of buildings, GET THE TOP FLOOR if you are misophonic (I am). If noise from below bothers you, you are in a better position to deal with it. I also wonder if it's a psychological power issue, this stomping. I have no power in my life, but since it's my home I can let out my aggression by stomping These twentysomething yuppie types seem to relish the noise of loud footwear on vast uncarpeted expanses of hardwood, especially females (that's another post).
To the OP: if there is a just Power, those rude jerks will suffer, either through karma or in the next life. Your suffering will be vindicated. And the suffering of others tormented by the bass beat played by what appears to be the new generation, technology savvy and often brillaint in working in artificial groups and uncovering ironic details, but lacking in human empathy and a knowledge of basic principles of human relationsips: products of a culture of narcissism . Whew!

I'd record their noise,nothing like having proof!!!Then when you know they are home and are quiet,maybe even sleeping,i'd get me an opera cd or some kind of classical music that i thought they didn't like and i'd play it very loud.Give them a taste of their own medicine.Mean, you bet.But what's good for the goose,is good for the gander!!! JMO.
Kathi

First, my sympathies to the original poster with the noisy neighbors.

But I am surprised at some of the hostility expressed by subsequent posters. I would recommend everyone check out the parallel thread in this forum from a young couple whose downstairs neighbor complained about the noise they were making. There are two sides to every story.

Between 8am and 11pm, I would recommend investing in a good set of earplugs. After 11pm, you are well within your rights to contact the management company (if what you are hearing is walking and conversation or normal sounds of living, the problem is structural and management should carpet or otherwise insulate the floor/ceiling) or the police (if what you are hearing is partying or loud music).

Good luck. I hope this situation is resolved amicably.

Here is a link that might be useful: craftfetish blog

Hostility? You bet. Who would not be hostile after the suffering we have bee forced to endure. And regarding the other thread mentioned I'm on the side of the downstairs neighbor.

normal living? acceptable noise? earplugs? are you people insane? since when does "normal living" include doing whatever you feel like with no regards to what it's doing to others? normal living means existing without transgression. xyz (the OP) seems to have practiced normal living for thirteen years. he's been invisible and minded his own business. that's normal.

telling us to get earplugs in OUR OWN F***ING HOMES is madness, forgive the harsh response. so's thinking noise from TV's, stomping, stereos, loud conversations etc is "normal". follow this logic and the day when it's normal to murder each other on the street openly isn't too far away, my dear friends.

educator...you're awesome. every word you said i second. i think we are witnessing the collapse of our society. technology simply accelerated this process because it enables the a-holes of the world better means of expressing their venomous hatred. but really, EVERY WORD in your post was gold. this inability to accept discipline, to hear the words "no" and "it's wrong", this spoiled anti-social bent, it will be our undoing. you can't even go to the freakin library anymore: it's all morons on cell phones.

nfllifer, with all due respect, your line of thinking not only opens a hornet's nest of troubling behavior (which you seem to consider normative), it also goes hand in hand with the ongoing persecution of so-called "complainers" and "whiners". yes, in the new humanity voicing critical concerns immediately labels you as one. this, naturally, is a must-have by-product of selfishism, since selfishism cannot tolerate criticism.

i pray for the future, but don't expect results.

I guess this is where we disagree. I would consider it normal to watch TV, walk around, and talk a little louder on a long distance phone call.

The phone call is loud talking, its not yelling at someone in the Apt, or on the phone.

I do not think it is normal to live like an invisible person. To think its normal to make zero to little noise is absurd IMO.

This is also not a complaint that should be addressed by the police. No one is any danger here, and no one is breaking any law. And yes the police have better things to do than check out a loud TV or how loud someone walks. I have a few very good friends who are cops. They might be doing servailance, or investigating a crime and get called away to listen to a TV. Great use of resorces! Its like calling the police to let you into your car, or for directions. Yes they can do it, but obviously they have better things to do.

To compare a louder neighbor to killing each other in the street and the end of society is ludicris!

When I lived in my 4-plex I knew when all the tenants woke up, showered, went to work, and their normal scheduals.

I consider dealing with neighbors noises is normal apartment living. Loud parties, fighting, dirt, drugs, prostitution, is not.

apparently we do disagree, but i can't agree with that, unfortunately.

i too listen to the TV, shower, talk on the phone (even internationally!) and walk around for lack of hover technology. i am an avid gamer and listen to music often...courtesy of this wonderful invention called headphones. when friends come over i make sure there's no noticeable noise, but then they're quiet people anyway.

see, that's what i consider normal. yes, we all live, but you have to stick your head on my door to hear my TV, and even then it's muffled (tested it myself). you think my TV's on mute, right? well no, i don't even strain to hear it.

to wit, no one has ever complained about me making noise and i've lived in several apartments around the world.

that's normal. making noise that others can hear regularly without wanting to is rude, inconsiderate and obnoxious. in fact accepting noise from others as natural is, indeed, ludicrous.
anyone saying they accept noise does so at their own risk, and i respect your posts as your opinions, but please don't make it seem like asking for peace and quiet is unusual or excessive.

there's some good people here who only want to live their lives in privacy and comfort. i am truly and deeply saddened you and so many others scoff at that and deem it strange.

being incosiderate does go against the very glue keeping society together, and we see that glue weakening around us daily due to changes we have yet to fully comprehend. as for noise's lethal properties, see the other thread we both contibute to.

i concur there may be priorities involved in law enforcement, but those only derive from prejudices i've already covered: someone dying from a heart attack because they couldn't get a moment's peace for the tenth day running, isn't that an emergency?

and the law does not allocate severity: breaking the noise code is still breaking the law.

"and the law does not allocate severity: breaking the noise code is still breaking the law"

And the noise descriped in the original complaint would not be breaking a code or law.

It really depends on the structure how much noise is allowed to travel between floors and walls. Growing up in a 2 story house on the main floor you could hear anyone walking quietly accross the upstairs floor. The same can be said for many stick built apartments.

I dated an individual who was a very quiet person. She was always worried about creating noise for others. She never had any complaints. She moved to a different apartment and you could hear her TV outside her door. She didn't increase her volume from before, just went from a concrete built building to a stick built building.

I wouldn't call it loud in the new place but if you listened carefully it could be heard.

In her new apartment it was normal living to hear your neigbors walk, run water, and ocassional non yelling voices.

These people that stomp may be incosiderate but also may just be living normally.

Lets say this person was in a wheelchair and you could hear every movement the chair made as it rolled accross the floor. Would this qualify as a complaint?

People I have met who stomp or walk clumbsily are not doing it on purpose. Its just how they walk.

the person in the wheelchair would be a complaint. on a similar vein, when i was a kid, like four or five years old, we lived in an apartment building for a couple of years, but brought along the toys. one of those was this kid army jeep that you could drive with pedals and such, and it killed the downstairs neighbors until they came up and asked my parents to stop, which i did.

see, according to your standards a child playing is probably normal living, however, i consider it wrong, just as i consider it wrong for any repeated, intentional noise to be heard by others when they don't want to hear it.

i suspect much of our discussion stems from a philosophical point of contention: i deem apartment dwelling AS A WHOLE to be unnatural, undesirable and abnormal, something people generally do because they feel compelled rather than out of a genuine liking. that's the case for me and most the people i know, at least.

as for "they don't do it on purpose", how can anyone honestly say they're not aware of making noise? i know when i'm being an ass, why isn't it the same for others? you walk heavily/play loud music/yell and think no one can hear it? strange. what are these people, concentration camp personnel? "oh we didn't know, we were just following orders". heh heh.

Educator, it is unfair to say it's mainly twentysomethings who have little respect when it comes to apartment living.

I've been renting since I was 19. I was brought up to respect people living all around me no matter where I go. I assure you, throughout my twentysomething years, I was very respectful toward my neighbors, and took into account their right to a peaceful home.

On the other hand, in my many years of renting, I have encountered some of the most loudest and rudest elderly folk who don't respect anyone around them as well as the younger set. I think disrespect of others, occurs in all age brackets.

must agree with you oceanside, it's a universal problem for all decent people, i'm afraid.

They don't make buildings sound proof enough. I lived below someone who was a musician who came home at 3-4am, walked around in his boots and played the trumpet during the day. I could also hear when he and his partner had sex. I had lived there for years. Him, less than 8 months. I asked him as nicely as I could if he would please take the boots off at that time of morning so I wouldn't hear them on the hardwood floors while I was sleeping. Said I would even be willing to buy a rug to help muffle the noise. He could pick it out.

His response was to say "This is normal noise for apartment living, if you don't like it, YOU should move into a house". Needless to say, this inconsiderate response did nothing for good neighborly relations. I hooked up a stereo speaker to my ceiling, (below where I knew his bedroom was) and played Ozzie Osbourne at random times of the day that I knew he would be trying to sleep.

Why should he be able to sleep when he wanted to when he wasn't willling to extend the same courtesy to me? When the time came, he did not renew his lease.

After he left, I didn't want to take the chance of going through that again with someone new and asked my landlord if he would give me a break in rent if I rented both places. He said yes, as this unit had always been difficult to rent.

I would have LOVED to have nice, quiet, considerate neighbors like xyz1002usa or neoadorable living above me. Too bad some creative enterprising person can't come up with a service that matches quiet tenants with quiet buildings. Noisy, rude people suck.

Dreamgarden, I did the same thing with an inconsiderate upstairs neighbor, he would keep me awake till all hours of the night and then as soon as it got quiet up there, I went CRAZY with the noise - and this idiot would have the audacity to get up and bang on the floor!! Unfortunately, I was the one who moved, I had pretty much had it with the place anyway. And even if he had left, I just would have had to deal with the next jerk who moved in, it was turning into that kind of neighborhood.

I really sympathize with the poster, but I truly feel you will have no peace until you get out of there and either move to a top floor or a one-side duplex, where there is no one above or below you. Chalk up your losses, life is short, you deserve peace in your home and lets face it, apartments are too risky. Good luck.

ps- even with earplugs, I could STILL hear everything above me. You become so agitated that your senses are even more heightened. What a nightmare, no one should live through it.

Hi-
Some of you clearly have not spent much time in apartments. Normally you hear light walking and the ocassional ruckus when they have a party, which is bearable, especially if they are kind enough to let you know in advance. When you have truly noisy neighbors they ruin your life, you have no privacy nor peace, no ability to think or decompres in your own home. Your TV is overwhelmed by TV or music from upstairs and the base from their music waked you up every morning. It is intolerable. Your ignorant suggestion that everyone in an apartment disturbed by other wear earplugs is ridiculous . . . I can just see my husband, or guest, and our housekeeper all wearing earplus all the time. No normal conversation, no ability to watch tv, etc. Sounds like a good life. As a very long-time apartment resident, I have the followign advice . . .

Please carefully check your lease for a "quiet enjoyment" or similar clause that not just requires carpeting, but also entitles you to the landlord's protection from other tannant's misuse. Contrary to some of the posters comments, the laws in many places don't just require some random floor covering but "adequate carpeting or similar noise-reducing materials" � their rugs are not adequate at noise-reduction. If people want to live in a communal place in a manner that significantly disturbs others it is their own responsibility to correct it. I'd call the police and ask them to visit your place, have some friends who visit your apartment and document the noise they hear, and ask the Mgt to come by. Then tell the Mgt SPECIFICALLY what you want -- say either: (1) they give the people upstairs the choice of 14 days to fully carpet with (over foam or similar padding) the place; or (2) tell them to move to another apartment in the building with the understanding that if they get similar complaints from their new neighbors they will be evicted. Tell the landlord that if they can't do this for you, you will have no choice to go to LL-T court -- that you really don't want to, but if you've mamaged for 13 years w/o significant complaint, they can't say you are difficult or unusually sensitive!

We live in a NYC Co-op and the people above insisted on not carpeting their apartment b/c they have allergies the are the world's heaviest stompers, are often making noise at 1, 2, 3am, have a hyperactive 4 year-old (not normal child noise) who they allow to play with balls, etc., and run nonstop as early as 6am and as late as 1am, and another child learning to walk using a roller-walker. Also, they like to move the furniture around a lot on the HW floors! They were allowed to wake us up at 1am the night before my brothers wedding with their stomping, but if we call (while their child still is running around at 9pm) they complain we wake up their other child, so we stopped calling. It got so bad my husband started hitting the ceiling with a broomstick when it got to the point we were going to rent a hotel room.

We have been living in nonstop hell for 4 years and are moving to another apt in the bvuilding just to get away from them (we own the place so we lost a good mortgage rate and had to pay more for the new place) -- that is how bad it is. We first called up a few times, then asked the doormen to call after they'd swear and yell at us to suck it up. Then after numerous houseguest and visitor, and even my housekeeper (working in NYC apts for 25 years) says they are the worst she's ever heard, we started documenting the noise -- loud bangs, thumps, running literally going on four hours to a non-human degree, etc. We had 6 months of tears, frustration and very detailed documentation and presented the info to the Board - along with the doormen's documentation of the calls. The management finally investigated and immediately insisted they carpet the place with padding. They complained about their allergies, but I have very serious dust and mold allergies and was able to find hypoallergenic carpeting and just vacum regularly and use air-purifiers. It is my problem, not someone elses. The carpeting helped the furniture and the heavy walking, which now is annoying dull thuds, but did nothing for their child who PREFERS running on the HW areas, and they pull up the carpet do let her play with balls, and for the younger one to use her roller/walker. The Board member assigned to our matter when the noise didn't stop just said he sometimes heard the people above he and deals with it -- he doesn't understand we sometimes have 18 hr days of noise -- every single day! The neighbor to the side of them just sound-proofed his own walls with quietrock at great expense, and we were advised that ceiling sound-proofing is significantly less effective than floor sound-proofing.

Some people take no personal responsibility for their actions and really should find places to live where they can be on a ground floor! Sorry for the venting, but I totally sympathesize with you and am so sorry you have to live with this. As these people who have never heard it can tell, it make people very irritable and ruins your quality of life . . .

To the last poster from a coop in NYC - you are hearing from a woman who's about to move to a house outside the city because her husband could not tolerate the upstairs noise from our uncooperative and insensitive neighbors. So you're in good company.
To the OP, here's my reaction: they're young and won't stay around forever. You've invested in this apt for over 13 years so, if you can, stick it out. They'll be gone before too long,...

from my own expierience, it takes a lawyer to make a landlord care. They dont want to be bothered, as long as you pay rent and the noisy jerks pay rent, they're happy. I also hate to say it, but your thirteen years doesnt mean much to them, (and if this wansnt true, you wouldnt be here right now) becuase someone else will come along to rent your vacated place if you move.

PLEASE!!!!! someone help me? I have read other posts, awful on how bad behavior is just "OK" lady upstairs barely has her 3 kids, taken from the state, her boyfriend, barely has his 3 kids, also taken from the state, she and her kids are on the lease, but he comes with his 3 unruly kids and stays for weeks at a time, even though the lease says 14 day max per calendar year, he gets away with it. SO, here is where I went wrong!!! I SAID SOMETHING!! now my life is HELL!! they lied to the mgr. said bad things about me! all untrue! I am being evicted!?? I am not sure what rule "I" broke, but I have a legal aid lawyer, and it just does not look good! he said they can and most likely will lie!! and get away with it!! I believe in doing the right thing! I bought a voice recorder, but found out it will not record the stomping noise as it filters out this kind of noise. HELP?