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Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common area

Posted by inertx (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 29, 08 at 5:57

Hello:
We have a unit in a small condo building. There is no on-site property manager and many units are occupied by tenants renting directly from the owner.

Portland Oregon is among the most transient infested town due to bleeding heart liberal city officials, bottle deposit law permitting them to scavenge cans and minimal concerns by officials for property owners.

We find trash, beer cans and signs of someone camping in the vegetation and every once in a while we'll catch transients sleeping or walking around the parking garage.

For the tenants, it's just an apartment, so they don't really care about what happens outside of unit and they're not careful to ensure transients do not trespass. As a result, we have a frequent car break-ins within the secured parking garage and we even had carts stored in the garage for resident use stolen once.

When the police are called and they show up before the trespassers leave, they'll just ask the transients to leave and nothing more. They won't run records or search their belongings even though criminal trespassing establishes a lawful cause to search them. Even if it's not the first time around, usually they'll just ask them to leave again, nothing more. There's no deterrent for these criminal transients to stay off private property.

If the police tried, I think there's plenty of cause to arrest them, such as existing warrants, failure to have an ID(while criminal trespassing, which gives them a cause to require ID), possession of controlled substance, etc.

The HOA express they're not too thrilled about their invasion and many members on the HOA have had spotted trespassers on premise, but they only ask them to leave and won't bother pressing charge.

How should transient situations be dealt with when the city won't aggressively prosecute them?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

"How should transient situations be dealt with when the city won't aggressively prosecute them?" With a little compassion, an offer of a meal, a lock on the garage door, an offer of real work with real pay, a Christian attitude towards those less well off than ourselves and a lack of hastiness to prosecute those who we have no real knowledge of being criminals (apart from trying to get out of the cold at night).


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

We do have a real knowledge of them being criminals. By disregarding signs or coming back after being told not to, they've committed a crime of criminal trespassing. Since they left trash, they're guilty of offensive littering too.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Ok, so we had "criminal trespassing prohibited - no loitering" signs put up... but they were ripped down... as did the neighboring building owners'.

These beings that are a burden on the society need to be prosecuted much more aggressively.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Can't you find a target more worthy of your hate?


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

lucy-"Can't you find a target more worthy of your hate?"

lucy-What part of inertx's post are you missing besides the: existing warrants, frequent car break-ins, stolen carts, offensive littering, possession of controlled substance?

Doesn't HE have the right to come and go from his apartment without fear of being harassed, etc?

What next? Suggest that inertx invite these folks in for a sandwich, or , just give up and go out on the lawn and live with them? jeeze.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

I just don't understand that level of hostility when it's directed at what just sounds to me like homeless people who've gone a bit over the top trying to stay warm. The warrants may just be for really minor infractions (don't actually know, of course, but if they were major, I doubt if the police would have just let them leave), littering happens to me all the time - 10 yr olds passing by and leaving chip bags on my lawn. Controlled substances are more likely to be just a joint or two of marijuana considering the people don't exactly sound well off, and what bothers me most is his obsessive use of the phrase 'criminal trespassing'. For me, the word trespassing would be enough to get the point, but calling someone a criminal for walking on a lawn, or even in a garage is pretty harsh to say the least and I think he's got a real bee in his bonnet and should maybe find something else to stew over.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

I have every right to be concerned about the security of my vehicles, home, common area items as well as the property value.

Neither the building nor the attached garage are open access. It is locked and gated. Transients look for the chance to break-in by slipping past the garage door before the door closes after a car has left.

The facts are cars get broken in. Common use items get stolen, garbage that are clearly from transient activity show up.

Also, once you place recyclables in the container, it's unlawful for other haulers to take the contents as it's part of the contract to allow the contract recycler to claim the contents.

So, transients entering a secured private property for the purpose of facilitating theft of recyclable resources is a crime.

Since they enter our property despite clear indication they're not allowed and reasonable measures taken to keep trespassers out, the very act is a crime, therefore it is criminal trespassing.

Neighborhood kids and adults are two different things.

Do you own your home?

Don't tell me wanting them to do something about unwanted trespassers who contribute nothing to society but cause plenty of harm to community is not worthwhile cause to "stew over". I've had my cars broken into twice, despite being parked in locked parking lot. Property loss/damage, added maintenance cost and reduction in real estate value is not something petty.

Property rights is one of the fundamental rights in this country.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

I do own my own home, and I absolutely agree with you about being concerned with security re your property and possessions. I would be livid if anyone broke into my car or stole anything, but trespassing is one thing, and B&E'ing to rob is another. If you had complained about trespassing and finding it irritating, especially if there was litter as a result, I could understand that. If your car is actually wrecked, I sympathize. But to keep hammering home 'criminal' along with trespassing (a word I've only ever heard used on its own even when describing fairly serious nuisance behaviour) just sounded like you must be the wicked old curmudgeon out to get anyone who so much as looked at your place. If you don't 'get' it, never mind.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

By the way, I'm not that old. This is a small complex and someone who is dressed like a transient that I do not recognize and couldn't name who he's visiting or state his business, he's trespassing. If I ask him to leave and not return, then I see him again on the premise, then he is criminal trespassing.

Obviously some little kid who just walked along and running around is different.

Anyone who's on premise without a plausible legitimate business is trespassing. If I see one, I politely ask who he's here for or what he's here. If his story is not one bit valid, or he's already camping, I inform him that he's not to come back again.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Who died and made you king of the universe? You need to get a life and stop harassing those who have lost theirs.

Fair enough if they break into your car, get mad and call the police, but- stealing trash? If according to the contract you quote it belongs to the recycling company once it's in the recycle bin, let the recycling people worry about it. It's not yours anymore anyway.

Just being there? If they're not hurting anything, so what? I'm reminded of the game little kids play where they claim territories and whinge when the other one puts a toe on "their" territory- and of course, a lot of "Look, I touched your bit" just goes on to irritate the "owner". Grow up. Be vigilant but not anal.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

You should have some respect for __PRIVATE__ property.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

I'm on your side inertX. If there is any group most rezsponsible for the plight of those who are in plight that is nhot entirely their own fault on the street it is those who you are trying to get taken care of.

I suggest that you get metal signs and have them bolted in to concrete (they still build with concrete in Portland don't they?) that way they will be hard for some random trouble maker to tear down.

Colleenoz, The problem with the homeless other than the fact that they are on inertx's private property (well he owns it with several other private individuals) and degrading the property value is that many homeless people are dangerous. When I was 10 I would walk across the park to get to my grandmothers house on the other side, can't do that now, too many people get mugged to let children go in alone. The homeless actually added to their numbers recently by burning down several homes on the other side of town by leaving a campfire unattended. Our society cannot bear the homeless, they need to be given some sort of shelter and made to work to better themselves.


Something sad is that in order to deal with the growing homeless problem here in Anchorage, AK my city has begun to follow the portland model, Portland being perhaps the worst city for homeless issues in the country, a good number of the homeless I have come across in portland have been aggressive and alarming.

Lucy, as a Non-christian I find it a bit presumptuous of you to assume that the OP is one, you know only 75% of the country is and in Portland its probably well bellow 50%. I do find it odd that your "Christian attitude towards those less well off than ourselves" is one that doesn't come out as a win for anyone, those in need of help flying below the radar of the system remain below the radar, those who are having their property stolen and vandalized still have their property stolen and vandalized, those who own their condo still have to deal with loosing property value and women and children don't get to feel secure.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Brendan - I hope you have more compassion for bonsai than people. If it's any of your business, I wasn't born Christian and have not ever become one. I just made an assumption (stupid me, I guess) that inertx was Christian simply as (at last count) they're apparently in the majority in the US - people seem to generally understand what's meant by the phrase I used.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

What (apparently) little compassion I have for my fellow human beings tells me not to do "charitable" things that just make me feel good and ultimately lead to other people having lower quality of life. The road to hell is said to be paved with good intentions and poorly thought out plans.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

So the answer is to do nothing at all? Well, I hope you think about that if one day you're in trouble and need a hand!


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

colleenoz-"Who died and made you king of the universe? You need to get a life and stop harassing those who have lost theirs."

Where do YOU get off telling law abiding citizens that they HAVE to put up with people who show zero respect for other people's property by digging through their garbage, crapping on their lawn, breaking into their cars? Some of these people are NOT harmless. They have drug problems, warrants, mental issues, etc. Don't you think it is 'anal' for you to assume you know what inertx situation is without actually BEING THERE. By the way, how many homeless people are sleeping in YOUR yard? I'd be willing to bet NONE.

lucy-"I wasn't born Christian and have not ever become one, people seem to generally understand what's meant by the phrase I used."

lucy, don't you think its hypocritical to ascribe Christian behaviors to others when YOU admit to not being one yourself?

brendan_of_bonsai- Your right. Those who aren't experiencing the horrors of having their land squatted on (crapped, violated, etc) don't seem to have much sympathy for those who do. I'd love to know what community service programs THEY are involved in....!


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Just because I wasn't born into a certain way of thinking doesn't mean I'm incapable of thinking that way all by myself - and do you understand the meaning of hypocrisy? PS - I'll say it OUT LOUD again if it gives you a thrill, but DO NOT saying I'm 'admitting' to not been born Christian - it's not a crime you know!!!!


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Its suspect and frustrating when someone tells us to follow a set of guidelines that they do not seem to follow themselves. For all we know at this point the OP could be a minister who is living in a condo so that someone maintains his property while he is away on mission trips, probably not but its possible. In the future feel free to tell us what the precepts of your own Jewish faith compels you to do, but don't expect the man on the street to follow some rules just because they are written about in a book (although if you look at modern Christianity it has a good deal of things going on in it that aren't mentioned at all, and some that historically were seen as expressly forbidden by the bible)

Back on topic.

The Solution is not to do nothing, the OP lives in an area with a parking structure, so no lock can be put on the garage, a warm meal, leaving them be is what has been happening so you're proposed solution is to do nothing except give them a warm meal and encourage them to stick around for more. The idea solution would be for the police to enforce the laws on the books, but thats not happening and cruel methods like sicking dogs on them or spraying them down with cold water aren't anywhere near acceptable so there isn't much to do except work to change the tide of public opinion and work to make the laws more enforceable and enforce them more.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

And who do you think is Jewish now? At least be clear about who you're referring to... (pssst.. it ain't me).


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

When I lived in Montreal I noticed there were two classes of homeless people: the truly disabled and desperate, and the vagrant criminal. The vagrant criminal was normally a druggie and had no need to live the way he did, unlike the disabled person who truly was suffering and in need of loving kindness. Obviously, my sympathy for the vagrant criminal is limited. And I would be nervous to have any stranger around the property, frankly. I would be scared. I wouldn't want to be vulnerable to someone high on meth or crack. The controlled substances the OP is referring to probably aren't a few joints. Meth, crack, and heroin are the drugs that usually land you on the streets.

Perhaps you can sue the Board to make them put a door on the area so they can't get in that easily.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Are you offended that someone guessed at your religion? Does it feel good to have people assuming things about you? Even though you may not share the opinion can you see how others might be annoyed with it?

Tearosekate, I'm not sure about Montreal but here Alcohol is probably the number one vagrant drug.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

lucy-"Just because I wasn't born into a certain way of thinking doesn't mean I'm incapable of thinking that way all by myself - and do you understand the meaning of hypocrisy? PS - I'll say it OUT LOUD again if it gives you a thrill, but DO NOT saying I'm 'admitting' to not been born Christian - it's not a crime you know!!!!"

*Definition of Hypocrisy (or the state of being a hypocrite): is the act of preaching a certain belief or way of life, but not, in fact, holding these same virtues oneself.

No one cares what religion you are as long as you don't ascribe 'Christian behaviors' to others while ADMITTING you are not actually a Christian yourself.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

You can have 'Christian values' without being Christian.

Christian values are essentially forgiving others sins, renouncing worldly possessions, being anti-violence, giving unconditional love, etc.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

That makes it seem like Christians have a monopoly on those, if anything they run short on them in the US anyways.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

brendan_of_bonsai-"That makes it seem like Christians have a monopoly on those, if anything they run short on them in the US anyways."

"run short on them in the US?"

What is that supposed to mean? Are you aware that lucy lives in Canada?

The US has its problems, but so does Canada. Capiche?!


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Meh, from where I sit the US and Canada look pretty much the same from a cultural perspective, I live north of 95% of Canadians so ...


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Ok first of all you need a life inert b/c you are an ignorant. How do you know that all the crimes committed were the transient? Just because you see them digging in your trash means, they broke your car, they did this and that. What if it was other transient and you arrested the one that is just looking for food? Why don't you talk to one and feed him and understand his situation so you can do society a favor instead of sending him to jail and we pay Tax money. Have you ever thought of that? This is a FREE COUNTRY so CHILL DA HEO OUT!! ALL THESE JERKHOLES COPS and MORON POLITICIAN making strict Law is taking all our Rights AWAY. Oh Yes the War in Iraq was also Ignorance b/c innocent civilian is being killed b/c we blame a whole country of like 30,000,000 people on like 500 people action. Its b/c of ignorance and moronic choices not compassion and understanding, if you get cop to arrest him you might as well join the president in his intelligent choice. People are ignorance as heo only see from there side what threatens them even a bit as seeing a transient digging in ur trash you get to accused him of all this crime is not only ridiculous but constitute you as an ignorant. Unless the transient came in with a knife trying to stab you Get a LIFE!


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

I think I owe Lucy an apology, I got way too bent out of shape and must have been spoiling for a fight.

Sk8tergnome, not only did you fail to demonstrate any point you brought up something entirely irrelevant and failed at writing the word because which you also overused. The transient in the trash looking for food is committing the crime of trespass when they are on private land with out permission. You are railing about rights being taken away, but seem to advocate the loss of inertx's right to decide who gets to use his property, how would you feel if someone decided who gets to spend your money?

In the future you should know that your words will never sway people in power the way that you want them too until you put some thought into them.

Bottom line, in all likelyhood the crime problem is highly correlated to the vagrant problem, while that is not an indictment of any particular vagrant inertx might see it is reason enough to want them gone, hell the litter from the camps is more than enough reason to want them gone (litter hurts mother earth) for good and we can be pretty certain that that is primarily the fault of the people making the camps.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Brendan - Apology accepted. Just found out something interesting (sorta) - my b-day is the same as yours (but I'm decades older). "The transient in the trash looking for food is committing the crime of trespass when they are on private land with out permission." You are right, if being so is all important, but if you consider that it's fairly impossible to access 'free' food without being on private property (short of picking fruit in season), you end up with either a really hungry person (who for whatever reasons at that time is probably out of work), and people who are so right, right, right, but have possibly learned nothing at all about compassion (even if the object of their feelings is unattractive by virtue of their having become a little skewed by being hungry a lot). Rightness alone is not necessarily the only criteria to judge people by you know, and sometimes can be the excuse for some pretty nasty behaviour.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

You forgot about food banks, homeless shelters and soup kitchens and picking vegitation and root crops such as dandelions so long as the ground is soft enough. They can also pan handle and do day labor for money to buy food.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Well, I have to say that begging and/or eating dandelions in the middle of the great US of A do not really appeal to many people (forgive my assuming things again). Homeless shelters do great work, but sometimes the only ones open to people in particular locales are actually quite dangerous, and sometimes require that 'guests' follow such stringent rules as to make it impossible for them to manage (I am speaking of people with emotional/mental conditions that make them leery of an awful lot of 'help'). And some are just full up an awful lot of the time. I'm SO not advocating that anyone steal food as a way of life, just that maybe we should pick on other people if we have time (and the inclination) to pick on anyone.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

OP -- Is this supposed to be a good area of town or is it an area known for transients/homeless to hang out? Is your maintenance fee very low so that you can expect not to have much management on site?


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Why are the shelters so dangerous Lucy?


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Because a lot of the people are quite disturbed, sometimes drunk, and sometimes get violent. Now you're going to tell me that I made your point for you. Well if I did, enjoy - it won't happen again. It also doesn't mean the people at your complex are necessarily disturbed, drunk or violent, you know.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Its the risk of that the OP doesn't want to deal with and that the general public doesn't want to deal with it either and that affects the OP's property value. There is nothing that says that the lot hanging out at his condo complex is the type to make things dangerous, but thats the same nothing that says that those people will be at shelters.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

sk8tergnome87, can't prove it although my hunch is they're likely to have done it. If I can prove it, I'd be all over them by now.

However, I know that they've already committed crime.
For one, those that I've advised they're on private property and to leave and not return with my camera rolling.

Some have returned, so their return in itself is a criminal trespassing.

I've since talked to nearby property owners and convinced them to place "no trespassing" signs on their premise as well, so the transients won't find spots without "no trespassing" sign to squat. I've been making occasional rounds and when I spot transients on private property, I have the police dept remove them each and every time. If they come back, PD gets called again.

It seems to be somewhat effective. I think I may have to write a letter to the mayor's office to express that the city is not coming down on transients effectively enough and property owners rights are not adequately protected.

Perhaps nearby establishments serving as an attractant to transients can be sued under measure 37 for contribution to the depletion of property value.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Every year, when it gets warm, there are more and more transients standing out in the street with a sign demanding money. I don't buy that "less job availability in summer" non-sense. Such presence shouldn't be seasonal.

Their standing in dangerous location shouldn't be allowed since if accidentally struck, they increase liability to drivers and their insurance companies.

There are even some who claim something like "student need money to ride to moms". People should really be checking student ID on those, then call the cops and have them arrested for fraud crime of "theft for deceit" . People REALLY need to get creative to lawfully reduce these undesirable pollutants.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

inertx, you sound exactly like some people who were around about 70 yrs ago in Europe. They didn't get their way either in the end, though did a horrible lot of damage to a horrible lot of other people. I can't remember the last time I read anything so outright hostile and hateful to other people.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

For crying out loud, inertx, why don't you just get up a petition to have them all rounded up and shot. I suspect you won't be truly happy until that happens anyway. By your own admission you have appointed yourself the neighbourhood vigilante and frankly if I was your neighbour that would scare me more than the homeless people hanging around.
I can't help but feel that if you continue to let yourself get wound up about every infraction, large or small, you will worry yourself into an early heart attack.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

You have a situation on your hands which is not easily dealt with. Most big city police departments wont "deal" with these types of offenders for a number of reasons, including the cost to deatin them and process them. I suggest a couple things. Since private property is being threatened with break -ins etc, you may want to find out how much the HOA is willing to spend on a security guard. One can be hired for a couple of hours each night, or every other night or whenever. They are not inexpensive, but a couple of times a week, and it might take care of the problem. You can start up talks with the local homeless shelters or other organizations who are there to help with the homeless problems, and see if they can assist you. You can write the mayor and ask if you can have some time with him. See if you can get a police advocate, or someone who can come up with the details as far as how many times the police have been called, how many times the residents have had things stolen or buildings were broken into. You might talk with the local police officers on the beat you have and ask them for extra patrol - this is an iffy solution since big city police departments are so busy. You need to be creative in dealing with the homeless, especially those who have drug addiction problems. I understand your concerns and issues, they are real and they can be very scary situations. Community outreach is going to be your best bet in how to deal with the issues you are facing or hiring on site security


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

inertx has a serious problem with drunk, disturbed, and violent criminals. The fact that they are homeless does not change this, altho some of you apparently are willing to turn a blind eye to all the dangers because of it.

I guess you are going to label me a Nazi too? That's always a surefire sign that you've lost your side of the discussion...


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Inertx has not at any point stated the transients in his complex are drunk, or disturbed (except by him) or violent. The only "crimes" he claims they commit are littering, loitering and taking garbage; he also accuses them of breaking into cars which they may or may not do, or it could be another resident taking advantage of the presence of transients so they will be blamed. Really without a witness it can't be stated as a fact.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

The drunk violent and disturbed issue was what Lucy brought up for why homeless people should avoid the homeless.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Yes, and only in certain situations, like overcrowded or badly managed shelters. I was not suggesting anyone avoid anyone else otherwise.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

There's been additional "no trespassing, private property" signs put up on several nearby buildings and there's been less transient issues now, however I believe it's seasonal and criminal trespassing issues will escalate again during winter.

colleenoz, actually some I have witnessed actually do questionable activities. Littered contents include alcoholic beverage containers. A few of them actually had on their possession a marijuana pipe indicating criminal drug activity.

Street drinking and drug activity in their neighborhood bothersome. "Drug activity" is among the significant concerns facing many neighborhoods.

It helps to maintain and improve the property value. A good chunk of police funds come from property tax and increased property value allows for increased police service to ensure criminal activity such as drug activity and vagrancy is promptly addressed.


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

solution: have them move in with lucy & colleenoz, so they can exercise their vaunted compassion


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RE: Criminal Trespassing issue with transients in condo common ar

Inertx, I agree with Fred, tell the vagrants to move in with Lucy and Colleenoz.
Also, a baseball bat applied liberally around the knee caps is real good.


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