Is there anything in the lease that says tenants are not allowed to smoke in their apartments? If not then you have no grounds to evict someone for smoking in their apartment. What needs to be done is YOU need to seal up any cracks that may be letting the smoke into the apartment above.

You can't just threaten to evict someone on any little complaint. Check your rights. I am pretty sure in Michigan smoking is my right in my home, even if I'm renting that home from someone else. They can't even charge me extra for cleaning when I move out (Michigan law says they have to paint and at least clean the carpets between tenants anyway). In Washington we were charged extra for cleaning when we moved out because we smoked in the apartment....of course nobody told us that they would do that when we moved in, and there was nothing in the paperwork about it, but we had moved back to Michigan and there wasn't much we could do about it.

Anyway, as the landlord if smells are getting from one apartment to another YOU are responsible for fixing it. What if it were just something the downstairs tenant were cooking? Would you threaten to evict them for cooking dinner? No, I doubt it.

Uhm, what kind of a "smoke" smell are we talking about here? Burnt cooking smells, cigarette smoke, or illegal drugs?

I agree with judi that if it's cooking or cigarettes, it's the landlord's resposibility to migigate things as much as possible. (I don't think there's much any landlord can do if the building allows smoking and one tenant decides to smoke in front of an open window. You can ask the person not to do this, but I'm not sure you can enforce a rule about it.)

If it's "wacky tabbacy," I don't think the landlord should be dealing with it. Call the police and find out what they suggest.

Since the building wasn't burning down and you didn't say here if your have a no smoking building. I would be more inclined to think of the compainer as the potential problem.

Had them, been there, done it. If it isn't a non smoking building, my guess is you should expect complaints from this tenant about every little noise or smell.

Sorry should have posted that its a non smoking property. Non of my tenants are smokers (or at least claim to be non-smokers). If they decide to smoke or have a guest over they have to smoke in a designated area outside by the street. It states this in the lease. The person complaining has been a very good tenant and never complained before. The person who apparently was smoking moved in last November and its the second time I have had this complaint. The complainer has severe asthma and smoke really bothers her. She was up for over two hours last night airing out her unit.

There is also nothing to fix, no cracks to seal up etc. Air moves in and out of units. Thats how buildings work. The building isn't very old. If I seal up her unit so she had no smells she would suffocate.

In my city smokers have zero rights. In fact they cant smoke on many sidewalks and in zero resturants. Only place they can smoke inside is at certain bars. Only about 3/4 of the bars are qualified.

My guess is its Pot but I'm not an expert on smells. The police don't care about small time users. My good friend is on the Gang strike force. When I managed apartments before, I would always notify him when I had drugsn in them. He would say yup they are a user but not a seller so were leaving them alone. I was shocked but understood they were only looking for the big fish.

For what its worth this tenant who is smoking only has had complaints when her male friend arrives. I belive he is the problem. I have left her two phone messages and a written letter asking her to call me and what the problem is.

Thanks very much for the feedback. Let me know if anyone has a different opinion now that you know smoking is not allowed anywhere on the property. I will keep ya all informed on how it turns out.

you seem very hostile towards landlords

You seem very hostile toward smokers. We are people too and, in most places, we still have human rights.

There was nothing hostile about my post to nfllifer.

If he wanted to, he could have walked right in on the tenant because it was a smoke smell and landlords can walk in with issues that could be emergencies to the property.

In case you've never noticed, cigarette smoke never smells like a fire, it smells like cigarette smoke. IOW, no emergency.

Pot smell entirely cakes the apartment. You will need to scrub the walls and re-paint them to get the pot stink out.

Unless the person is smoking constantly all day and all night, this is BS.

BTW Judi.. yes he can evict on a complaint.

No, tenants have rights, ALL tenants, including the ones being complained about. If it were legal to evict someone simply because another tenant had complained about them, nobody would have a place to live, except the people who complain first.

Also, smoking isn't your right in 'your home'. It's not YOUR home, it's your rental.

In my state it IS my home as long as I'm paying the rent. I have the right to smoke in it, I have the right to cook stinky food in it, and the landlord ONLY has the right to enter with my permission or in the case of an emergency. As long as I'm paying the rent it's MY home. There's something called a Covenant of Quiet Enjoyment that applies, look it up.

I understand that other states take a different approach to smokers. In nfllifer's case it seems she has every right to start whatever process is necessary to evict the tenant that is smoking because it's in the lease that it's a non-smoking building. That changes things entirely. Frankly I'm not even sure it's legal in Michigan to declare an apartment building non-smoking. I've never seen one, and I've lived in 4 different apartment complexes in 2 counties in Michigan, and shopped dozens and dozens.

BTW, NFLLIFER, if it were pot, you would probably know. It has a VERY different smell from cigarettes. If you've never smelled it before, I could see you saying you don't know what it is, but not mistaking it for cigarette smoke.

The fact that it's a non-smoking building changes everything. However, I still believe it's your responsibility to stop strong odors from travelling from one apartment to another. What if the neighbors cooked something pungent that bothered her asthma, or just annoyed her? IMO, there's no reason for smoke to be getting from one apartment into another, unless the windows are open. I've NEVER had a neighbor complain about smelling smoke from my apartment, EVER, and I've never smelled what my neighbors are cooking for dinner.

Thanks again for the replies! I didn't want to start a fight or anything ;)

I think the smell was probably Pot/ cigarettes/ candles/ incense.

Then tenant still hasn't replied to my note or two phone calls. I'm guessing it won't be a problem now that they are aware it I know. And I don't think she will contact me as she is embarrassed and knows she broke her lease.

Hopefully its taken care of.

When I managed over 100 units there were obviously pot smokers in some. The did not require the cleaning other have described. In fact the Pot apartments were much easier to turnover than cigarette smoke. Perhaps because the usage varies.

Thanks again!

When I managed over 100 units there were obviously pot smokers in some. The did not require the cleaning other have described. In fact the Pot apartments were much easier to turnover than cigarette smoke. Perhaps because the usage varies.

Sure the usage varies. Even heavy pot smokers don't smoke as much pot as a moderate cigarette smoker. It's easy to smoke 20+ cigarettes in a day...for a pot smoker to smoke the equivalent in pot would be quite a feat....being able to find a lighter in order to continue smoking after a couple hours would be a big accomplishment, lol.

Well I had the same call two nights ago around 10:30 PM. I went over right away and there was no smell at all. I knocked on the complainers door and brought her into the hallway. I told her I couldn't smell any smoke or drug smells just a clean smell. She agreed and said the smell she called on was gone.

Great! Now one call was bogus and the other was legit. I have no clue what to do here on out. AND I don't want to keep getting calls late at night.

And tenants think they are the only ones with problems ;)

pot is illagle in most places still. if it is the smell of pot in the building i would send a letter out to all tenants not just the one where the smell is from; notifing them them the use of illagle drugs is prohibated on the premiss and evictions will be handed out for anyone that dose not comply. if it is the smell of a cigarette ,insence or cigar smoke and it is a smoking building their is not much you can do. the only thing that i found that a landlord is able to do is ask the tenant to put a towel or something simalar to lay at the bottom of the suit door(s). i am a heavy smoking (1 pack a day) and have had a landlord complain about the smell, we came to a understanding that this is a smoking building, but to stop the smell travelling into the hall we came up with some ideas to stop like having a window open and try to sit near it, towel under the door to the suit and if it is nice go out side to smoke, and try to avoid smoking near the door and no smoking in the halls of the building. And was given a warrening about pot in the building saying not alloud no matter what and let every one know that smokes pot to take it on a walk. (the landlord didn't know who actual smoked but knew i talked to everyone in the building and knew.

nfllifer,

Did she have her window open? Is it possible that a tenant was smoking outside and a little smoke wafted up into her window?

No both tenants had their windows shut this last time. Who knows... perhaps the complainer is paranoid now.

I typically do send notices to all tenants in a building if its a smoking or noise complaint. This allows the complainers to know I did something. This building has one tenant that has lived there 32 years, and this ladies best friend accross the hall. So the complainer knows about it and so does the other one.

Honestly I'm to the point I where I want the two tenants to be able to talk to each other. Both are nice/ good people. If its not resolved fairly soon both will get a increase in their rent. I know, not fair, but they are both below market rates AND its an easy fix for me. An extra $100 a month might make it more worth my while :) J/K

So I once again get another call at 12:30 am about a "drug" smell. I was asleep and didn't get my message until the next morning. I couldn't smell anything once again. I called the police and asked if it was OK to have the tenant call them next time. They said yes! It will be much easier for a dog to figure this out than me and wont cost me anything. The tenant complaining didn't like that idea and wants me to barge in whenever she calls to figure it out.

I asked her if they complain about you at 2am can I just enter your apartment? She said she isn't smoking drugs. I said the people below are saying the same thing.

I'm just sick of the whole deal. If its drugs they will be evicted. I'm convienced its probably not, just a complainer now. Both are good tenants but I could care less if either or both moved now.

Well, it isn't up to her how this should be handled. YOU are the landlord.

It is simple, next time it happens she must phone the police, not you. I think those police dogs are pretty good. Then this matter should be finally resolved.

ojoy how do you suggest I handle this? I can't enter her apartment to investigate, I am not a drug smelling expert, two times I went over when she called I smelt just a clean building, the first time I smelt a smell but have no idea what it was. I am not able to just drop everything each time she calls and investigate. I did tell her she could call me and IF I was awake and able to answer the phone I would just call the police instead of going over. I started this thread asking for advice.

YOU are the landlord has solved all my problems and questions. Thanks (sarcastic)

I think what you have told her, sounds good, i.e. if you're awake you will phone the police so that they can have their police dog/s investigate the smell. Our sense of smell is not nearly as good as a dog's sense of smell so this could go on and on if you try rely on what you can smell. You need to point out to her that she may need to allow the police to enter her apartment. It will just be a goose chase if the police dog is not able to smell what she can smell.

Hopefully with the police's help this matter can finally be resolved. One will also then know for sure whether her complaints are justified or maybe she is trying to make trouble for the people downstairs.

Pot smell entirely cakes the apartment. You will need to scrub the walls and re-paint them to get the pot stink out.
-Unless the person is smoking constantly all day and all night, this is BS. -
LOL... yeah ok... you know this because? Where does it vent in an apartment? You got someone smoking for a month.. off and on.. it entirely cakes in the apartment. Pot does have a strong odor. It's an herb. Unless you blow it out the window it settles on the walls, ceilings. I walked into apartments which were rented by pot users. It's unbelievable how bad it stinks. For you to say B.S. to this FACT is just plain wrong.
You're also DEAD WRONG on thinking it's your house. A landlord can evict you by his judgement. He can simply say you're louder than reasonable or he can make the building non-smoking. How do you think restaurants and bars get away with NO-smoking declarations? As long as the entire building is NO-Smoking there is nothing you can do about it. A landlord can simply say it's a fire hazzard and a pollutant he personally doesn't want. I'd like to see you fight this in front of a magistrate. You have rights but the landlord wields the power and can declare new principals for his property in a lease. As long as they are non-discriminating you'd have to abide. I have a real estate education, I know what landlords can do. Btw, I am a cigarette smoker.

LOL... yeah ok... you know this because?

Because as a pot smoker, and a friend of pot smokers, I've NEVER smelled pot in ANYONE'S house unless they were smoking it at the time. I've never had anyone come into my home and say "Damn, you smoke pot don't you?" Not even when I was smoking ever evening for over a year. nfllifer even disputed your claim, and she's managed apartments.

You're also DEAD WRONG on thinking it's your house. A landlord can evict you by his judgement

No, you are dead wrong. I hold a legally binding contract with the owner of the building, that binds the owner as well as me. They have NO legal right to evict me without being able to prove that I'm not paying my rent or am being destructive in some way to the community.

He can simply say you're louder than reasonable or he can make the building non-smoking

He would have to prove in court that I'm louder than reasonable. And if he wants to make the building non-smoking he has to wait until my lease is up to enforce it on me.

How do you think restaurants and bars get away with NO-smoking declarations?

Restaurants and bars do not have legally binding contract with their customers. My landlord does.

I'd like to see you fight this in front of a magistrate

It happens all the time. If a landlord truly had the power to simply kick anyone out that they wanted to, leases would not exist, because what would be the point?

You have rights but the landlord wields the power and can declare new principals for his property in a lease

Right, IN A LEASE. I currently HAVE a lease that is good until April 1 of next year. Until then the current lease stands. Until then, as long as I pay the rent and don't cause trouble, the apartment is MY home and the landlord is obligated to respect that. If I find out my landlord is not respecting that, I can sue him for breach of contract.

I have a real estate education, I know what landlords can do

Good for you. However, my lease is a legally binding document, binding on me AND the property owner. Even if someone else were to buy the property they would be legally obligated to fulfill the terms of all leases, as those leases would be part of the purchase.

Judi_e:

Of course, you have rights; however, so do other 'paying' tenants. They, too, signed a 'binding' contract.

If a tenant is disabled or has or has a chronic illness and tobacco smoke from another unit is causing a worsening of the tenant's symptoms, Fair Housing Laws apply. The tenant is entitled to a reasonable accommodation. The landlord may be required to allow the tenant to relocate to a difference unit. Or, the tenant may be able to break his/her lease without penalty.
(42 U.S. Code Section 3604).

The landlord may also ask the tenant causing the smoking 'nuisance' to relocate to another unit -- where other 'smokers' reside.

Courts also require that a plaintiff prove the behavior is both "substantial" and "unreasonable."

In fact, a friend was actually 'relocated' to another unit--with other 'smokers.' His smoking caused breathing problems for a one-year-old with asthma. His attitude was: "I pay a lot of money to rent my unit; therefore, I should be able to do what I want in my unit..." He used to speak to the couple...until they complained about his smoking. The wife's sister owns a title company. She helped his sister with a settlement when she purchased her home.

It is my understanding the leasing office refused to accommodate them--in any way--despite three doctor's notes. The couple hired an attorney and he was going to file a lawsuit. The property management company decided to settle the matter. Also, my friend's moving expenses were paid by the property management company.
A nuisance is "anything which is injurious to health or is indecent or offensive to the senses so as to interfere with the comfortable enjoyment of life or property." Thus, you don't have to be 'destructive' to qualify as a nuisance. The attorney for the tenants/infant with asthma also threatened to sue for "breach of contract." Thus, I can only assume he felt the propery management company breached its contract with the tenants/infant. I suppose there was a clause similar to your lease's Covenant of Quiet Enjoyment because they were entitled to same.

Smoke, odors, noise or vibration can be considered a nuisance. Tobacco is a 'powerful' asthma trigger. All 'paying tenants' have rights. Just as you have a right to the full enjoyment of your dwelling--so do other 'paying' tenants.

Essentially, the leasing office sided with my friend--as he complained that he had the right to smoke in his apartment. However, since smoke 'travels,' it caused breathing problems for the infant. The property management company decided it was not worth being sued under federal law.

A person with breathing problems is entitled to 'respect' and a right to 'breath' without having asthma attacks. Leases work both ways. Thus, we should all be considerate of everyone's rights...not just our own...because we sign a "lease." What if you had a one-year-old with asthma? The leasing office should have made an effort to provide a reasonable accommodation for the infant. They chose to ignore the matter. Also, suppose your county/city/state decided to implement a no-smoking-in-apartment-buildings law? Do you think your landlord would respond: "Sorry, Judi_e's lease has not expired." I believe you are just as important as the next person, Judi_e. However, what if the Department of Licensing were able to revoke the landlord's dwelling/license-renewal because they ignored the law?

We are all people and we should all be treated with 'respect.' People are so preoccupied with 'their' rights. I find it sad and disconcerting that some people don't have any room for compassion and consideration of other human beings. Also, what about those who never smoke; are exposed to second-hand smoke; and die as a result? Were they not entitled to a "lease of life?"

I wish you well, Judi_e.

Malachi,

Do not assume that I have no respect for other tenants rights. I now live with an electronic drum set in my living room because when it was in the middle bedroom the neighbor called the police every time my husband touched it. BECAUSE I have respect for his rights we've inconvenienced our lives.

If my smoking were an immediate health danger to a neighbor and they had lived here first I absolutely would accept moving to another building. If I lived here first, however, then the landlorn should have taken that into consideration, and I would expect the new neighbors with the baby to move to another building.

BTW, gorrillabuilder was not saying anything about one tenant's rights versus another's. He was telling me that I have no rights compared to my landlord, and that my landlord and do anything they want reguardless of the lease I hold.

I'd be really interested in watching the war that would break out if any government tried to ban smoking in people's homes. That would be a hoot!

And about non-smokers who die as a result of second hand smoke....first I'd like to see evidence of such a thing. Second, as an adult you have choices about where you go and who you hang out with. If you CHOOSE to expose yourself to second hand smoke, that's YOUR choice.

judi, I am a property owner and have managed many rental properties that I did not own. All of the leases I have read state that if the tenant takes part in an illegal activity such as smoking pot or doing drugs or allows it to occur in the apartment/house they occupy, I can evict them.

Well the complainer had the same problem last weekend. She called the police this time. She said they knocked on the door but no one came out.

I called the cop and left a message. I want to see if he smelt anything and if he has any ideas. I'm guessing he noticed nothing as if they thought drugs were there I should have gotten a call, or he would have looked into the situation more. Unfortunatly no dogs were available that night.

Now I am just more curious as to if its just a complainer or if there is a problem.

I keep posting on this thread to keep a timeline for myself:)

I called the police again last night to get in touch with the officer who checked out the initial complaint. He was off but I found out in his file he noted no smells at all. I also was informed that yesturday another call was made. Two senior officers arrived and are positive this odor was curry.

I still believe something may have happened the first call but since then paranoid.

Ah, I personally have never smelled curry but over the years there have been a lot of conversations about it here and on other sites. The jist was if you don't cook with it or eat things made with it, it smells bad.

If it was drugs or cigarettes the police would not have thought it was curry. They would have known those smells.

Tell her you can't do anything about it and she should keep calling the police, enough unfounded times and they will fine her for being a nusiance.

The only thing I would wonder about here is why no one is home when her sniffer goes off? Maybe they are home but by the time she smells, they are sound asleep?

Some people just don't like certain smells. Unless the complainer can get the police to say it something other than Curry, and unless the lease says cooking with Curry is prohited, she just has to get use to it and it isn't your problem or the landlords problem.

you directed your questions to tenants. I think asking other landlords would yield more practical solutions.
Tenants right to "quiet enjoyment" does not extend to odors unless the odor is a constant and ghastly one, like skunk, petrochemical waste, etc. In a big enough building there is always somebody cooking or burning something, and you cannot make your complainer happy unless you kick everybody else out of the building. She has no evidence the people are doing anything illegal--no drug equipment, no evidence they are selling, etc. The police aren't going to raid the place. She has been watching CSI once too often.
My rule is --if I promptly go over twice about a complaint
and it isn't still happening when I get there, it doesn't get priority the next time. Don't promise to call the police for a tenant who is complaining about odors. Police time is valuable--you want them to come out immediately when you have a real problem. Unless your building is in a tiny town where rolling on an odor complaint is real excitement for all concerned.
Prioritize your time and attention--plumbing, wiring, leaks, key problems, etc. those are important. People who complain because they can hear the clock chiming next door are not in the same category, and I tell them that. I actually try to be tactful, but anybody who calls me at 12:30am to complain about odors better be also seeing flames because I am going to go up in smoke.

Whoever wrote the lie about pot smell getting everywhere is a total lier. Marijuana smell goes away, it's tobacco smells that get in the carpet, walls, etc.

I used to live with a pot head and the smell would never once stick.

Any smell including Pot can stick if burned enough. I have been in apartments with candles being overwhelming. I had to scrub the walls, clean the carpets etc to remove the candel smell.

The complainer has given me a notice that she is breaking her lease. I am trying to re-rent the unit and she understands she is obligated to pay untill its re-rented. The complainer has some issues. She gave me a Dr. letter stating she had less than 85% oxygen level one night. The letter is over a year old and was from an incedent prior to her moving into my apartment. I went to show it for the first time last week and its a total disaster! She only moved in a few months ago and looks like she has lived there for 20 years! You can barely walk around the place and looks as if some one tried to rob her throwing cloths and "stuff" everywhere!

I called her and told her there is no way I can rent your unit out in its current condition. I will try but its way to messy. I recomeded putting stuff into storage.

I will just be glad when this is all over.

unless you have smelled the smoke yourself, how can you evict anyone? how do you know the complainer isnt lying due to some other dispute they may have? check it our for yourself first, and make sure your lease has a rule against smoking cuz if it doesnt, then how is that fair to the smoker?

This should be called the "twit" thread. I can't even get through it all because of all the illiterate posts and lack of sense in most sentences. Do people even re-read what they wrote before posting it??

I am a heavy pot smoker. I have been in my appartment for 8 years. There is no pot smell when you walk in, even after 2 hours of smoking there's no smell, so who's the BSer?

Why would the cops waste their efforts by bringing a dog to a complaint of pot smells in an appartment?? That's the most ridiculous thing I have EVER heard! Perhaps there wasn't one available because they are busy tracking down murderers, missing children, major drug busts etc.....but for a complaint of pot smell in a complex?? Give me a break!!!! Common people, get real.

"The jist was if you don't cook with it or eat things made with it, it smells bad." (Talking about curry above)

See, perfect example of the nonsense in this thread. What does this mean?? And if I understand the meaning right, then that means if you do cook with it, or eat things made with it, it won't smell bad??

I just can't wrap my brain around this comment at all.

Well the police DID bring a dog by. In my town we have 2 to 4 officers in each quadrant at all times. They also have 2 more the cover the entire city. Each quadrant has one officer with a dog, they are on regular scheduals/ rotations so not available 100% of the time. When the officer with a dog was on he stopped by and brought his dog in. Cops get calls like this numerous times daily. They HAVE To actually stop out and check it out, thats their job. Sending the officer with a K-9 when he is pratroling that area isn't more work for him unless you consider opening a door and shutting a door for the dog more work.

UPDATE for those interested. I re-rented the complainer apartment almost immediatly and it was left in imaculate condition. I was able to show a clean identical unit first and then the mess. The person accused of smoking also left and that unit was filled immediatly! Complainer left due to "drugs in the building" and the accused smoker left to move in a bigger place with their companion. Win, win for everyone including me. I rose the rent of both units and have two new excelent tenants.

I have been living peacefully in a sometimes loud community in portland, or.
Let me explain a little. I have a townhome, and in the back of me is a 2 bdrm flat, and on the left side of me is another townhome with 3 bdrms, and on the other side of them is a townhome like mine. So i am in the end unit.
Well the neighbors in the 3bdrm townhome have started smoking pot, the skunky kind which has the most God awful smell in the universe. I know it well because my ex-boyfriend smoked it in our backyard in california. Now Oregon has a no smoking policy which is strictly enforced. Rather it be cigarettes, cigars, pot, etc.. I have complained to my landlord about the smell and that its them who are smoking it, I know it because I have seen him boldly with his terrible rolled up joint in his mouth. Since my complaint they went two days with out smoking it, now they are back to smoking it again, I have decided to move out because my infant can not be exposed to that smell. She was born with some lung problems (not going into detail about it) But, I have also contacted the police regarding the fact that he is so bold about it. The police have taken matters into their own hands and well now they are pissed off but, hey I will do anything to protect my child! They also have two small kids and I don't understand why they are smoking that around them. But, hey to each their own. The fact of the matter is when your landlord doesn't do enough about the issue they lose tenants, and then things can get nasty when the Police get involved. So be kind and keep in mind that in a shared community others matter! So abid by the rules and regulations and everyone will be happy. TENANTS HAVE RIGHTS! Even against smokers Atleast in Oregon they do.
Peace!

I been having the same issue with my neighbors smoking it's bad I have yes streaks on bathroom walls at night I can't sleep because my nose becomesbecomes dried out and all my landlord says to me if you don't like it move and I been a good tenant never started any issues and always paid on time and I get treated like

I have the same issue cigarette smell is bad in my apartment landlord said he sent do anything lease doesn't say you can't smoke but lease doesn't state about odors but my situation is different my neighbors downstairs never open a window at all so there not ventilating the smoke out it's just coming up to me there both chain smokers it's gross and I talked to the neighbors and they said we don't have to open a window