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Running upstairs!!!!

Posted by Venus78k (My Page) on
Mon, May 30, 05 at 23:10

Please someone help me...I need some advice!! At this very moment and every moment for the past week we have been able to hear the small child upstairs running. We have new neighbors that moved in right above us. They have a large family and a small child. I swear from the moment the child wakes up (very early, 4:30 am) and until he goes to sleep (11:00-12:00 just about every night this week), he runs all over upstairs. I hear it while I'm taking a shower, while I'm trying to watch tv, while I'm cooking, on the phone. The only time I don't hear it, is when I'm at work or gone, or he is gone. I'm getting to the point where I feel like crying. It's memorial day weekend and the management office has been closed. I left them a message explaining what is going on. I really don't feel all that comfortable approaching them. I have found a beer bottle by my car and I've had to clean the breeze way several times this week. There have been cigerette butts and potato chip crumbs all over. My biggest problem is the noise. They also have on their patio a gaurdrail and it's made of metal. And the child spend several minutes today pounding on it. I understand kids are going to play on the floor and make a little noise here and there....but this is getting to be so beyond excessive. I used to work with pre-schoolers and I know how small children can be. But, I think when you live in an apartment community there are things you need to sacrifice. Like, I have to listen to my neighbors have sex occasionally and I don't have loud parties and I don't scream and play my music too loudly. I excpet my neighbors to understand that there are other people living here too. It's taking a toll on my nerves. I've lived in the same apartment for 4 years and have seen countless neighbors come and go.
I don't really know how much more I can take of the loud running. I can here adult footsteps too...but it's occasional and for some reason not as nerve racking as fast pounding footsteps a good 17 hours a day.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

Oh, you poor thing! We thought we had it bad when the grandchild of the upstairs neighbor comes to visit - sounds like elephants live up there.

First of all, there is a thing known as "quiet enjoyment", and you are entitled to it. There should be some sort of mention of it in your lease. Second of all, is there a rule about having most of the floors covered? Because, although it won't negate the problem, it will help somewhat.

Bottom line - you don't have to take this. From what I have read, these people act like they don't give a damn. My suggestion would be to send a registered letter to the managment company telling them what is going on and asking them what they plan to do about it. It would be a shame if you have to move but if they refuse to do anything, you might not have a choice. You are entitled to some peace and quiet.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

I am so sorry you have to go through this. I know that's a pain, especially when smaller children are involved. I used to retaliate against my old upstairs neighbor and she would retaliate back so I wouldn't suggest that. You've done right by leaving a message with management. Most landlords require complaints in writing. Write him a letter about the incidents and document every noise problem. Do you have a camcorder or a voice recorder? I used to tape my voice recorder to the wall while the noise is happening.

I understand you don't feel like having a face to face with them but it may be your only answer. By you not talking to them, they may think that it's not bothering you or they don't know how much noise is traveling downstairs. If you talk to them, hopefully they will get the picture. And if it gets worse AFTER you've chatted with them, then call the cops (especially during the noisemaking).

With the hearing the sex thing, you could retaliate by having a loud sex session yourself and they'll see how bad noise travels! HAHA I've done that and I didn't hear another sex noise again.

If you don't get a solution at all with the landlord or from them, you could move. It's a pain but it'll be worth it. I moved to a top floor unit just so that I couldn't hear anyone over my head. And it was well worth it. Finally, peace and quiet...


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

Sorry to have to disagree, but there is no way to keep a small child from running, jumping, etc, because that is what kids do. The child has just as much right to live there as you do. I do sympathize, it is very annoying to have loud neighbors, but I have never lived in an apt that didn't have loud neighbors, whether it be stomping, sex, music, or something. It is just part of living in an apt. and I'm not sure there would be anything you or the apt manager could do. I would just try going up and say "I understand that children run around, could you just try to keep the running and jumping to a minimum". It probably won't work but it may be worth a try. I used to babysit my friend's 2 yr old, and there was no way to keep him from jumping and running all over the place. I think the only real solution would be to move to a top floor apartment, but then you may have loud neighbors below you too.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

Well, I understand that apartments can be loud...and with living in an apartment you also have to live with some noise. I also understand that small children are going to run. But, 4:23 in the morning up until 11:30-1:00 every night. I mean...that is a little excessive. I have to be able to sleep sometimes. I've had neighbors with small children before and they used to bounce basketballs sometimes. But...it lasted maybe 5 minutes...and the running wasn't all night and all morning and all day. I come home for lunch and some relaxing time away from work and all I can hear is running...even with the music on.
I really don't think it's all that difficult to stop children from running. When I grew up, I wasn't allowed to run in the house. I used to teach pre-school and the children weren't allowed to run inside. But, I'm not that child's parent. I just think most people would be more curteous


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

I wonder...is it possible that it's not a child, but maybe a dog or a cat? It's hard to imagine a child running around at those hours.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

trust me...it's a child. I can tell the difference between the adult footsteps and the small, closer together, quicker footsteps of their son. My apartment manager spoke with them Friday and then the Woman upstairs came to talk to me. She has a bit of a heavy accent and so she didn't say a whole lot. But she said her child is 3 and he has heavy feet and that he runs from the bedrooms to the living room playing. I told her that even someone so small can make so much noise down here. She said she understood because she lived on the bottom once. Anyhow...she never said she would try to stop him....I asked her if she could try at least. She said that he takes a nap until 6pm and then goes to bed at 9-10pm....I then told her that well, I've heard it up until midnight. I tried to emphasize that it was very bothersome and loud. Well, we said our goodbyes and she went back upstairs...and guess what I heard until 10:50 that evening ....running, galloping, banging. It's definately not a cat or dog.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

Keeping small children from running and jumping around is not difficult - it just requires decent parenting. I grew up mostly inhabiting the second story of a two story house with my parents' bedroom on the first story. As soon as I could walk I was taught to do so at a normal pace and to not jump from things onto the floor. Not only is it inconsiderate of the people below you, but whatever happened to not running in the house? If anything else, the child could get hurt from doing so.

I understand how you feel. Right now we live in a downstairs apartment below two people who frequently have their nieces and nephews over on alternating weekends. They are the loudest, most rambuncious group of little hellions. It always sounds like there is a herd of elephants above us. Several times they have had to phone maintenance to repair something the kids have broken!

Be persistent with management. While some noise is to be expected with apartment living, having to constantly put up with it above a certain level is unacceptable and inconsiderate of the other residents.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

That's very frustrating for you, I can imagine. I don't buy into the theory that kids will be kids, and it's not possible to restrain a young child from running, jumping, and acting like a monster. When I was very young, I was taught that there was "indoor behavior" and "outdoor behavior" and I never had any problem behaving myself indoors. I see so many parents nowadays not being parents, and taking control of their children. Yeah, their kid has a right to live there, too, but not to the point that their behavior affects your ability to live in a normal environment. Like belladonna, I would keep pushing it with management if I were you. I fear, though, that you may end up just having to move.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

I talked with management again this morning. The man I spoke with in the office told me that he had his own run in with this 3 year old child. He has a golf-cart that he drives around to the different apartments. and he said he had it parked and when he came out of an apartment this little boy was in it and getting into things. The mother was outside and she just lifted up her arms in a "I don't know what to do" sort of way. He had to end up telling the small child that he needed to get out and such. The mother said or did nothing. The noise has not stopped. And he told me that they would send another notice. I also asked about a transfer..and if they do decide a transfer is necessary...who would be the ones to transfer. He said that since they are the problem it would most likely be them...but, they might have to just break their lease and let them go if things continue.The manager also said to me that after talking to the husband, that it sounds like they have no control over their child.
So...I don't know...I'm going to keep after them as long as this noise continues. Because, your right...it's not hard to make a child stop running. I didn't as a child. I babysit my friends children and when they are in my apartment, my home, they aren't allowed to run.
It's just exhausting.... Thanks for all your words everyone...I appreciate all the insite. =)


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

I do sympathize. I used to have neighbors above with a child that would run. It's horrible. Now I live in an apartment where I can hear absolutely everything from above - but in my five years of hell there I have thankfully not experienced another child above me. *high heeled shoes sounds like someone firing an AK47 in my apartment* I know people will disagree with me but I think that apartment managers should not rent upstairs units to people with children aged 0-13. I also think musical instruments, and surround sound should be banned in all apartments. Good luck and my thoughts are with you.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

jezzadu,

upper apartments should also have carpet with thick padding too. Argh. Our new neighbors have no rugs and wear their shoes and boots the whole time they are there. 5 guys in a 4 room (3 bedroom) apartment. They work various hours and someone seems to be walking around at all times of the day.

The worst part is that the two guys over my bedroom seem to have decided that a rolling chair on top of squeaky hardwood floors in a brilliant idea, and that it makes more sense to use that chair at 6am on saturday and sunday morning. Fortuntely the other guy in the room gets home reguallary at midnight and only stomps around till 1-2am, leaving us with a solid 4 hours of quiet time to sleep.

It's not just children....colllege students can be just as bad or worse, especially if they have just discovered alcohol.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

so what happened?


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

I competley sympathize with you. I too have the same problem with my neighbor above me. They have 2 small kids, one is a 3yr and the other one is in a walker and they all live in this 1 bedroom apartment. From the moment the 3yr wakes up he's running and stomping. I sometimes cant imagine why since its only 9am and the day has barley started. I have become so sensitive to this issue that I have developed hatred for these people. We have asked them to keep it to a minimun and we filed a complaint with mngt. The only thing they did to APPEASE us was have them put down area rugs. There is no padding to drown it out. We have invited 1 parent to come downstairs to hear what the sounds are like comming from thier apartment but each refused. They simply don't care. What makes me more upset is that they are renters. I own my apartment.
I have a toddler and she doesn't make have the noise the 3yr makes. I have wall to wall carpeting with thick padding. I don't allow my toddler to jump or run in the apt. I teach her...or I buy her toys that keep her sitting and playing quietly. It works.....I spoke to my neighbor below me and I asked her if she hears my child running or jumping....her response was "sometimes I wonder if there is even a small child upstairs". So yes it can be solved if those who are the cause of the problem are willing to accept the fact that they have a resposibity to thier neighbor.
I have been dealing with this problem for the past 3 years with the same noisy neighbors so I know what I'm talking about. I could not afford to move before but I think this spring we are out of here.
It has been a nightmare living here. The sad part about it is that there are parents who use that excuse "kid will be kids". Its a cop out. They are lazy parents - bottom line. Apartment living does come with some noise but what people fail to realize is that it also comes with responsibility. My neighber has a responsibiliy to me like I have a responsibiliy to my neighbor downstairs and so on and so on.
There is simply NO EXCUSE.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

sometimes cant imagine why since its only 9am and the day has barley started

You've got a kid, and you don't understand this part? Kids wake up early--it's biological! 9am is LATE to a kid!

I will agree that you *can* do something to cut way down on the amount of running noise kids make--but you can't eliminate it completely (your neighbor said "sometimes" she wonders--which means sometimes she can clearly tell there's a small child upstairs).

You've certainly experienced that difficulty yourself. But it can be done, as you say.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

Oh I feel for you. I used to have an elderly woman living underneath me. Her daughter would bring the grandchildren over (two girls, about 5 and 3, or thereabouts) EVERY SINGLE DAY and they ran, jumped, marched, and stomped for hours. This drove me insane and it was UNDERNEATH me. I cannot imagine what hell it would be to have it above me.

And these parents who throw up their hands in a "whatamIgonnado??" gesture just fry my behind. I grew up in apartments and was always admonished about "so and so who is downstairs." And if my mother got a complaint from someone, I was spoken to, believe me.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

It comes down to one thing. Kids will be kids...Yes, But parents should be parents.
If you can't control your child, you are NOT a good parent.
If your kid runs and jumps in the house....youre NOT doing your job. If the parent wants to raise an idiot....move out to the country and live in the woods. It should not be our problem.
You should pick a good time...3AM and start banging on the ceiling.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

Venus-nothing is worse than not having control over noise...I used to have a guy above me that held band practice (I am totally serious) starting at 1:00 a.m. most nights...they had drums, amplifier, the whole bit. I had to put up with it for 3 months until they were evicted. a-holes. I say you start blaring your stereo an hour or so after their child has gone to bed...see how they like it. I am joking, this would only make things worse, start a war, but might make you feel better. At least you get peace and quiet during the night..Again, I sumpathize, there is NOTHING worse.


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As a landlord this problem is really hard to address. I would like to make children live on the main floor but this is discrimination. "Family status" As a property managager I was leasing out a upper condo. I placed a Single parent with a 4 or 5 year old child. After a month the association manager wanted them out and told me I broke their bylaws stating no children could live upstairs. I informered her it was against the law. She said an attorney wrote up the by laws and he knew more than I did. The lawyer did call me to address the question. I told him he was an idiot and was breaking the law. He said he would look into it and get back to me. That was in 2001. Hmmmmm

When tenants are looking for places they should ask questions about who lives adjacent, how the landlord screens tenants, ask about noise problems, and pay attention to how loud it could be. A brick, steel, cement larger structure is obviously going to be quieter. A stick build will be louder. Also check the flooring installed on second floors. Carpet is much quieter.

When I lived in my 4-plex the upstairs apt had a child that was typically very good. They were friends and once I banged on the ceiling really hard during one of his outburts. The guy ran downstairs and thought that a gun went off. I told him I didnt hear anything and told him to listen why. Last time it was obnoxious.

Next tenant woke up at 6 am first week and had music to loud. I just put in a disk and totally blew his noise out. Last time it was loud in the building. BUT both tenants were responsible good people.


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Glad I found this thread. Very similar to my problem, and I am at a loss what to do. I don't want to move, but I wonder if I have no choice.
The people above me are in their 60's though. When the man is home, they are fighting. He curses her, she screams at him to get the H out. Every other word out of his mouth is F....
But that is not the big problem.
They blast the TV for about 20 hours a day. That isn't even the main issue.
Every night when they get into bed, they drop their shoes onto the floor, right above me. They march back & forth back & forth - the woman marches around in hard-heeled shoes for hours, and he stomps. But they do not stop. And every night when they go to bed, and every morning when they wake up, they for some reason move furnuture all around right over my head. Our lease requires carpeting. They Have None, so I hear these loud clomp clomp clomps all day & all night. My ceiling fixture shakes from them. Even that could be livable, but they usually go to bed at 2 AM, and wake up at 6!!!!! So I get jolted out of bed every night in the middle of the night. I've been sleep deprived for weeks now.
I asked them to be a little more considerate, and their answer was a " F$%&* YOU" the first time I asked, and then their response to two letters has been to totally ignore it. The bldg is managed by a management Co that manages several thousand units in total, and ours is at the bottom of their list of importance. I reported this to the LL 2 weeks ago & the response was "we'll look into it." Whoopee DOO!
But last night really was the worst of all. At 3 AM they started banging furnture, screaming at each other & blasting the TV. The guy must have dropped his shoes on the floor 6 times. I knocked 3 times on the ceiling (sounds like a song), and yelled up to "Be Quiet already!" In response they started JUMPING UP & DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!!
These are people in theor 60's!!!!!!! And then, at 6 AM, they woke up & started all this again. I am afraid to approach them now in person because I ahve heard this guy's temper. I sleep with a white noise machine to drown them out, and sometimes even wear a sound blocking headset. All to no avail. And my LL just shrugs "We'll look into it."
GRRRRRRR!!!!!


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

At my last house I had a very loud neighbor. Since it wasnt a rental who did I call? At 2 AM his music was so loud it could be heard anywhere in my house and the homes were on regular city blocks not connecting. I called him first and he didnt answere. (probably couldnt hear the phone) I then called the police as I was fed up. They came about a half hour later and I never had a problem after. (he did move a few months later)

If the landlord isnt doing anything call the cops. Tell them its not an emergency. In my city if the police show up 2 times in a year the lanlord is forced to evict the problem or lose their rental permit. The cops will probably startle the tenants and definatly tell the LL you mean business.

Besides with their lifestyle and sleeping habbits I would bet they are on some sort of drug. Sounds just like a couple I evicted once. When they were moving out I found out they used crack.

Good Luck!


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

Coach, I can only wonder: WHEN do your neighbors sleep?? you have my sympathies, believe me.

The guys underneath me are also very noisy. I've complained about them several times and each time, they've been spoken to. Apparently in their culture it is quite acceptable to stomp on the floor, have people coming and going at all hours, and have music going late at night. I don't think so. This is not a dormitory. If this were above me, I'd be going out of my mind.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

How have you been able to stand that 3 years, Gemisic?

I have a similar problem. Only, it is even worse! The people that have taken my life from me are the family of the building manager. Now imagine that. They bang around in their apartment, which is right above ours, 24/7. No difference between 3 a.m. on Saturday and 3 p.m. on Monday. And if they think they should use their hammer, they'll use it. Whenever they please. Well, because they are the manager. The interesting part is that they totally deny that they make any noise. I've called the cops twice. Last time they came, they explicitly stated that they "can't do nothing about it, and if I call them again, I'll probably get charged."
Nice, isn't it?

I've been dealing with this for a bit more than a month. (it started when this family moved in.) I am already insane now. So I can't imagine how you've been able to deal with it for 3 years.

Well, now I'm looking for an apartment or basement.


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So what ARE the 'quite hours'???

Hello everyone,

Nice to know I'm not the only one with elephants that drop bowling balls for upstairs neighbors. I'm newly divorced and haven't lived in an apartment for YEARS. It's quite a shock. Common sense tells me that during the day and early evening, I basically have to deal with a certain amount of noise. But can anyone tell me (maybe a landlord that's reading this), IS there a "bewitching hour" - for example, after 10pm where upstairs neighbors should REALLY make an effort to live quietly?

My 14 year old twin sons have to get up at 5:30am for high school. We sometimes hear what sounds like bowling balls being dropped, people jumping off a bed and/or just general "thumping" well after 11pm.

I hate it - my dream is to get out of here (and it's a NICE apartment!) and get my own home with no one above me ever again. I'm so unhappy here, but until I get my finances in order, it's better than living on the streets.

So any obvious reasonable rules of noise etiquette, folks?

Thanks.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

Get their phone number, and start calling the m every time they make so much noise at night--

"gee, are you all right? I was worried--it sounded like you fell, and it's late, so I thought surely you'd be asleep, you must be sick if you're up, have you seen a doctor? I'd hate for you to be ill or hurt, and not do something to help you!

"Oh, you're just up? I'm sorry to have bothered you, it's just that it woke my sons up from a dead sleep--you know teenagers, they sleep like logs, so if it was loud enough to wake them, I got concerned! And they were scared for you, so I thought I'd call to be sure.

"As long as you're OK, then. But perhaps, since it's just that you're up, you could try not to knock things over, and stuff. Because it really is loud down here. We worry."

Kill 'em with kindness. And, it'll let them know RIGHT at the time, that the noise IS heard; you're not making it up.


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I have a family that just moved in above me and the grandmother watches the grandson while the mother works. I went up and introduced myself. I took the child a toy. We made friends on a superficial level.

I inquired if the grandmother and child had ever lived upstairs before. She said they had. So then I commented, "Well, it's never too early to start teaching upstairs etiquette." I said he needs to learn HOW to live and walk upstairs. She explained that he is 5years old weighs 75 pounds and suffers from ADD.

This little guy does the same thing. He is up around 5:15ish -6:00 and I can hear him at 11:30 at night. I told her I was becoming sleep deprived. I can hear running, throwing temper tantrums, feet kicking and stomping. Everywhere he goes he goes loudly and heavily and since he has ADD he goes everywhere often too.

I told her that I suffer from anxiety and panic attacks and that the constant barrage of noise is affecting my disability. I pray for 10 consecutive minutes of peace and quiet. I told her it was not fair that his disability has to become my disability or even inflame my disability. She asked me, "What can I do?" I suggested to her that if she is performing the parental role, it is up to her to keep him under control. Take him out of the apt and let him run around outside, work off some of that energy. At least try to instill and enforce upstairs living etiquette. It is clearly an unknown concept to him. If they were trying to stop him from running everywhere, he would stop in mid run somewhere along the way. He would slow down once in a while. All the evidence points to an attitude that says, "It's just too much work and I'm too tired. It's not bothering me so I'll just continue to ignore it."

He goes to the cement balcony scrapes the metal chairs around until he is comfortable and then sits and amuses himself by hitting a nylon coat hanger on the metal balcony railings. I have gone outside to see what it is, so I know. The worst part is, that OUT THERE it isnt even really noticeable. But the area that makes up my patio area is like an amplifying chamber. I have tape recorded it, but it is less than impressive when all the vibrations are not going along with it and there carpet and dead space. I have to leave home just to get some peace. They don't seem to go anywhere very often or for very long.

There was no such thing as family laws when I grew up and my mom was a single parent with 3 girls. You better believe we learned real quick how to be quiet as mice upstairs or down and God forbid if ANYONE complained to office about ANYTHING we did. But that was because they could threaten her with eviction. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

My apartment office representative called me tonight and asked me to come to the office for a meeting with the manager, myself and the upstairs family. The real issue here is that quiet enjoyment and unacceptable noise levels seem to begin after 11p.m. in our county and are no longer enforceable after 6 am. This makes me wonder just what they can do if the upstairs neighbor is not inclined to cooperate or continue trying after the first couple of days.
Sign me off as sleepy, punchy, moody and frustrated,


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

Did you go the meeting? Was anything resolved?

I had a very similar issue. About a year and a half ago when the couple above us moved in once in a while their daughter would come over with these absolute hooligans! The kids would literally run the entire length of the apt, and straight out the patio door! The apt is over 1300sq feet and it is a LOT of running room.

I was so angry the first day they did it but let is slide since they didn't live here. The lady that lives up there saw me outside that evening and actually apologized to me. I quickly told her thank you, but also said it was awful being under it and I did not appreciate it.

About 6 months later they did it again. I went to management and they quickly told her there was NO tolerance for that, especially being those kids don't live here. They were not allowed to come here and ruin my home when I am the one who pays to live here.

They never came back!!

That is what the case should be at your home. That child does not live there, why is he allowed to ruin your home?


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I will let you know. My meeting is tonight at 5:00. By the grace of God the apt manager had to come to my apt this morning. They try to remain neutral, but even he said this needs to be shared with the grandmother from a third person's perspective.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

listen it is easier than you think...when you rented your place both you and your lanlord engaged on a CONTRACT that demand things from both parties like paying your rent on time keeping the place neat and such,the same way you are obligated to comply with your part the landlord is just as responsible for his...
In almost every lease in this country mixed between all the things we usually do not read there is a clause called"QUIET ENJOYMENT" especially in apartment complexes.
Comfront your lanlord...tell him that if do not enforce this clause that he signed for in the CONTRACT "lease" he will be in violation of the same and you will have the right to sue for he is not providing you with what he promised in the lease...
if he ignores you ,sue him this is america and besides having rights JUDGES do not play when you show up in court with signed documents....


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

manolo - If only it were so easy!
The LL is in the Driver;s Seat in our rotten system here, where Winner Pays.
Even assuming you are right & the OP can sue & wins, the costs of doing so can be prohibitive.
First there is a lawyer at hundreds of dollars per hour. True, it is not required to have a lawyer, but try getting through the trial courts without one - the LL has one who can tie up the OP in knots if they do not have a lawyer. The Judge probably has 50 cases a day to hear - the judge is not going to have time to "help" a party without a lawyer.

But even if you can do this without a lawyer, just the filing & service costs alone can be alot of money. To file a case here it costs $350 Filing Fee. Then on top of that there are fees to Serve the defendant with Legal papers. That can run several hundred more dollars.
Then there will be Discovery - that will require depositions, and the cost of those transcripts can run well over $1000. IF yu win the case, the chances of recouping these costs are practically zero. So why should anyone Fear a lawsuit?

Oh yes - there is Small Claims Court. Forget it. They can award MONEY DAMAMGES - they cannot ORDER someone to do anything. And the money damages they can award are for compensation of monetary losses - nothing like Pain & suffering or Emotional Distress.

SO YES - we all can have our day in Court. And a Contract Is a Contract is a Contract. BUT you have to be able to afford to go to Court.

British system is much better - Loser pays all costs!


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

"British system is much better - Loser pays all costs!"

Judges award court costs to the winner all the time as part of the settlement here too.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

Court Costs are awarded only in a great Minority of cases.
Usually where the loser has dome something that "shocks the conscience of the Court" or something very unusual that adds cost or unreasonably delays the proceedings. And even then, the full costs are rarely awarded. Certain cities, such as New York City, have Landlord-Tenant Courts where cases like this CAN be brought, at lesser expense, and where costs Do often get awarded. But that is a small minority of courts.
also, in certain tyes of cases, State Statutes automatically award costs to the winner - such as in Insurance denial cases. Maybe some States do have laws that automatically award costs in L- T disputes, but not where I am.


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Sorry, I wrote "all the time" as a euphemism and did not mean all the time. Also it is automatic in some jurisdictions and I realize that this is not the case in all. I usually preface my statements with something like "this may vary state by state (municipality)" but I forgot. I was only making a comparison between American and British systems and taking it for granted that in the British system court costs are always born by the loser as the PP said.

One can sue for $XXX.XX dollar amount "plus court costs" leaving the exact amount open until closure due to unanticipated fees incurred over the course of the battle. One must ask for "court costs" as part of the settlement in the paperwork, and if the person wins they get settlement for the damages plus court costs. If they forget to ask for court costs they don't get it unless it is automatic as it is in certain types of cases.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

Well I am very shocked at what I am reading..because for just as many noisy neighbors in the world are neighbors that complain about everything and have caused anyone who has ever lived near them to move. My neighbors complain about me cleaning my carpets in the middle of the afternoon on a weekend, and if I am comforting my toddler and quieting him outside at 4pm my kids are in the bed at 8pm every night and wake at 7am every morning........i get complaints just walking up my own stairs in the middle of the day......I have been threatened and had to call the police and was even told by my complex that my neighbor below me is a serial complainer......so what happens when u r trying not to make noise but noisy happens you cannot expect people to exist and not make a sound r u serious....if you would like it pin drop quiet at times that are convenient for you well that's when you buy or rent a single family home...right? I don't think anyone should be making loud noises at crazy times of the night but cleaning carpets in the afternoon on a weekend...really i mean really


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

Okay, I am in a similiar situation. The people above me have 4 children all under the age of 5 and she is working on #5 at this time. There is a wife and a husband. She NEVER takes her kids out to play. They play inside all day and night. They do take naps. Here's a solution, "DON'T TAKE NAPS AND YOU AND YOUR CRAZY KIDS WILL GO TO SLEEP AT A NORMAL TIME."
Also, as it goes for apartments, normally it is 2 people per bedroom plus one. She is already beyond the limit, that is my next leverage.
I am too darn tired of being used as a doormat. I clean up after my dog and he rarely barks. My dog has more respect for others then they do. I trained my dog, why can't they train themselves and their ADD children????

I have used my digital recorder to record the excessive noise that I can use as proof. I went up to talk to her once at 12:30 am and then again on another night at 2am because her oldest son was jumping around and off of the furniture so much that it woke me up and I have to take lots of medications to help me sleep. It takes a bomb to wake me up, or in this case a 4-5 year old boy. I'm always hearing the kids running and jumping and crying, lots of crying. All of their furniture rattles so loud that I have it on a recorder. That is excessive!

You can legally record others from your own apartment, but if you want to legally record a conversation, then in some states, you have to inform the person that you are recording the conversation, otherwise it cannot be used against them with the management, owners and/or court.

Check with your local towns' curfew hours. Those are normally your "Quiet Hours". Anything that is disruptive within those hours, you call the police to report the disturbance and have them take care of the problem.

If things are still not going anywhere after discussing it with the tenants, management or the owners, then I would suggest talking to you local Building and Zoning Department. If things are not being taken care of, like maintence problems, mold or mildew, parking lots, etc. not being taken care of in a reasonable amount of time, then contact Building and Zoning. Attach pictures of the problems if you can. They normally do no tell the owner or management who contacted them and they will address the problems, if they are not taken care of in a specific amount of time, then the complex will be fined.

Research, research and more research.

If you are trying to get some common courtesy from those around you and the property mangement/owners, then you have to research. If it's problems in your hallways, food, cigarettes, people putting stuff in the doors so they won't have to use a key, etc. then explain to managment/owner how it is effecting them and what it is costing them (i.e. cleaning the carpets, possible fire hazard, repairing door frames, loss of heat) then they will see it and normally do something about it. We have a "House Rules" that every tenant has to sign with their lease. I used that against them as well. I'll state the problem and then inform them of the rule number and reiteriate the rule back to them. They cannot disbute it since they created it.

If it's a noise problem, then you have to go above them and hit them where it's going to hurt them (their pockets). Most likely, if you have a management on the property taking care of everything then the owners think everything is great. If the owners are getting fined because of all the police calls or Building and Zoning is fining them for repairs and/or other problems, then management has to answer to the owners and answer for their lack of management and maintence around the complex.

Let's face it. Faxing the management a letter the next morning for all of the lack of sleep because of the noise disturbances isn't helping me get the sleep I needed that night before so I can perform my duties at work to the standard that they are used to, then it's time to show them who is boss.

Again, show them how it is costing them more money and if that doesn't help then, hit them where it hurts them.

Find out what your rights are in your state. If you have to get HUD, the State Department, Building and Zoning or even OSHA, then do it! No one knows what is going on unless you tell them.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

I have the same problem @ my apt. Shouldn't parents teach their kids to not run in the house. I'd have to say the parent is definitely at fault; it's like some kids are given no rules or discipline these days, makes me sick.


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

We live in an upstairs apartment. I told my daughter that we would get complaints for her twin boys who are four. They are delayed and could be autistic. They understand the words but it goes in one ear and out the other. They don't run all the time but some. There are no real play areas for children here even though there are kids everywhere. If they did not soundproof the place when it was built it will sound like elephants live upstairs even when adults walk. It isn't the fault of the upstairs neighbor and in California the children and families do have rights. You cannot forbid them to run and things like that. It is unusually loud noises at odd hours. We had the landlord complain when downstairs in the now empty apartment. One of the boys probably ran across the floor. It's not loud here but we have told them and told them but other than sit on them we can't stop them from jumping down from things or running in the house. Now they are talking to us about moving into a downstairs apartment well I'm not moving. We will be moving at the end of the lease anyway but you people don't seem to realize that kids can run and kids can make noise during the day. You need to get over it or move. The laws are for the kids rights, not the adults. We are calling an attorney because this apartment complex is out of line. I know my daughter she will take them on tooth and nail. We cannot strap them to chairs to make the place totally quiet. They are not school age yet but next year they will be and they go to bed generally at 8:30 and are gone most weekends. We cannot tie them into chairs to keep them from doing kid things. Just like you can't keep a baby from crying in the middle of the night.

For southern CA go here: http://www.discriminationiswrong.com/families.html


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RE: Running upstairs!!!!

VeronicaDaze:

Why won't you move? It's just to a downstairs apartment. The landlord should have put you in a downstairs apartment in the first place.

Yes, kids run. And it's hard, if not impossible, to keep them from running indoors sometimes.

But that does not do away with the fact that the tenants below you deserve to have a quiet place to live. It's not discrimination to move a tenant to an apartment where the kids can run all they want and won't disturb anyone. It's a practical solution to the problem.

The landlord isn't evicting you. He's trying to solve a problem. The problem is that you have grandkids who run indoors and the people below you don't want to listen to that noise. By moving to a ground floor apartment, the problem is solved.

The landlord is probably tired of getting complaints about the noise from your apartment. He knows kids will be kids, but he also needs to rent the downstairs apartment.

You have a choice--move to the downstairs apartment and stop worrying about noise the grandkids make, or continue to have the landlord bring noise complaints to you.

It's up to you which way you want to go.


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