Ref/Freezer Thermador Freedom Collection

Cooktop Bluestar (Much better than Wolf)

The only feature Wolf has that Bluestar does not is the burner can go low enough to work as a warm plate.Temperature evenness and top end power is much better on Bluestar. Bluestar can go low enough to actually simmer even the most delicate sauces.
Themador Masterpiece Series 30 inch Double Wall Oven floor model $2899 with free shipping in link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thermador Ovens

Thanks! I have seen some good deals on ebay. I'm a bit nervous to go that route. Do you know if Thermador makes their own oven? I have found that their columns are made in the same factory as Miele, and the dishwasher is Bosch. I'm wondering if Thermador's oven is it's own??

Thermador and Bosch are the same company.

hockeyfan et al - Bosch and Thermador are not the same company . To the consumer they may look very similar and they do share a lot of the same technology and even products back and forth.

But - they are managed separately. Thermador is owned by Bosch Appliances in the USA which is under the Bosch USA umbrella which is also into auto parts and tools. USA reports back to the German parent which is also into solar power, automotive systems, security systems,product packaging, and healthcare technologies. They are a HUGE multinational and sure they have their hand in T'dor's business - but they are not just rebadging the Bosch catalog with a Thermador stencil and charging you an xtra 200 bucks a unit.

Gabe - if SZ built in fridge isn't in your budget - then one from Tdor or KA isn't going to be either. Not really. Family sized built ins are multi thousand dollar fridges no matter what brand you buy. Sure there is a few hundred dollars difference between the brands, but as a percentage we're talking 10-20% .

Hi xedos - I'm also looking at configurations. The towers are cheaper than a larger subzero by a few thousand which could allow me the wolf oven and cooktop I like. I just don't know if they have the reliability, and if I should just go with a smaller subzero that may not work well with all my fresh produce. Kitchenaid was priced out for me, and it came out $8k less than subzero/wolf.

it is my understanding that the 30" single-door bottom freezer Bosch and the 30" single-door bottom freezer Thermador are exactly the same, the only difference being you can't get the Bosch "panel-ready" (only stainless). To me, "Thermador is owned by Bosch Appliances in the USA" makes them the same company.

The freedom platform (towers) is plenty reliable and has been in the U.S. market for 5-10 years now under the T'dor, Bosch,Gaggenau and Miele brands.

Your lettuce may do better in a SZ because they have a ethylene filter in their boxes. This performance will cost you though.

My take is - produce several weeks old is not really all that fresh even if it does look or last longer in my fridge than yours.

Buy based on utility and price , not what ifs.

Agreed. The only one that I am considering but cannot see in person are the new sub-zero columns. I hear they are available for purchase but are not in the showroom in town.

hockey - of course you can view it any way you'd like but............

Is Lexus the same thing as Toyota ? Think not

How about Smart and Mercedes Benz - or Chrysler when Benz owned them ? Absolutely not.

Whirlpool or Kitchen Aid dishwasher ?

Would you rather have a Tappan range or an Electrolux Icon or a Molteni island cook station made to order ? All the same thing in your world cause Electrolux "owns" the lot of them !

Think you're a bit naive if you think just because a division is owned by a parent it is the "same" thing" If it were exactly the same the suits would simply roll up the carpet and turn the lights out on all the employees and pay themselves a larger bonus .

Oh, and for the record: the 30" over unders you're talking about are not "exactly" / except the same ! The interiors are quite different and the Bosch was available as a panel variant but was dropped in favor of providing the "add on " stainless panels with the unit with a raised price. You can just as easily remove the stainless ones and add cherry if you'd like just as on the Thermador version.

SZ is in the middle of transitioning the new generation so by end of Jan. you should be able to see units in most metro cities. It'll take awhile for second tier cities to replace their displays.

FWIW, yes, I do think Toyota and Lexus are the "same company", not that all their cars are identical to each other (although some are).