I have a new Optima. I went with it for 3 reasons: First, I need and very often use the china/crystal setting. Second, I wanted a quick-wash option which it has with the Express. Third, I like the drying. Also, in our other place I have an Incognito (a 4 y.o. version of the Optima) and love it. So I know the machine. I do think the Optima is improved over the other. It's really great.

Don't know the other model you're looking at. But the noise is not an issue -- the cycles and drying system are the things to consider IMO.

Also I would say that if you are getting a Miele one of the things it does really, really well is wash pots and pans. We've switched over and most everything goes into the dw now. I also add the plastics as it handles those as well.

Choose the dw that will give you what you need and perhaps more. Then figure whether that is worth the additional money or not.

How about the silverware drawer. I was at a friends with a Miele and it was a pain in the butt methodically putting the silverware into the slots.

Silverware shelf is something most love about the Miele. I thought it would be a pain as well but it's the opposite. Silverware doesn't need to go into the slots.

maven - were you there when it was emptied?

With the tray you are simply trading the timing of the "pain in the butt". With a conventional basket you get it at unloading time.

We also have a Optima, but no water problem.

I put the silverware in the tray, upside down/backwards/ sideways, however it comes out of my hand and I've never taken out any dirty silverware.

My wife is the queen of over-loading a dw, and again everything comes out clean (unlike our 6 yo KA that we removed and tossed), despite the load; the glasses had braille on everyone.

One thing that I don't like much is that the plastics do not get as dry as I would like, and the cups and glasses don't fit on the baskets as nice as I would like, but the wine glass rack wworks great
Pots and pans come out very good as well, no problems getting anything clean.

I got tired of taking out dirty dishes and washing them by hand, that is why we stepped up to the Miele.

Good luck.

Thanks for your help and experience. I decided to go for the Optima. I hope that we'll have this DW for 10 years at least, so the extra $300 isn't really that much over the long run. It seems as though the Optima is a bit quieter, has the "Turbo" (Quick) function, better drying, delay start, split cutlery tray, etc. It will be installed this Saturday. I can't wait!

Anyone want to buy a 3-month-old top of the line KitchenAid DW? :)

Camille

Thought I'd follow up with a report on the new Miele Optima. All I can say is WOW! The dishes come out absolutely sparkling! I've had a Bosch and a KitchenAid, and the Miele is in a class by itself.

I only scraped the dishes and purposely left food stuck on them (lasagne, peanut butter, etc), and they came out beautiful. Even my old, cloudy drinking glasses look better after a cycle in the Optima. We have very hard water (14 gr), so I'm sure the built-in water softener has a lot to do with it. I'm using the Miele dishwasher tabs and regular ol' JetDry rinse aid.

It's also very quiet -- comparable to the Bosch and MUCH quieter than the KA. We don't have the panel installed on it yet, so I imagine it will only get quieter once that happens.

It does take a little getting used to the basket configuration, but I think that's true of any dishwasher. I love the cutlery tray. Not a big deal to load because I'm usually loading at most 4 place settings at a time. A snap to unload. Cutlery looks polished when I take it out.

All in all, quite happy with the new Optima.

Camille

Glad to hear that you love your Miele Optima dw!

We use the dw soap that is those little bricks, half solid/half liquid (too lazy to look) without a hitch (Cascade probably(?)).
Plastics still a little wet, but oh well, ...

Camille -- It's lovely of you to come back and post on the results of your choice -- best thank you for us appliance geeks who hang out here and don't often hear feedback. But most important is that you're pleased with the dw! Happy holidays.

The price you quoted are for the front button models right. I was facing the same choices except I was also including the bottom model Inspira series. However, I was looking at the integrated look. My wife likes that better, but I would rather have the best performance. Our toddler son fools around with the buttons - do the front button models have a child lock so that he does not fiddle with it and accidentally change settings while it is washing or starts the washer when not supposed to?

I am also debating between a Miele and a Bosch. The main thing I worry about with the Miele is that the silverware tray will be a huge pain, so it's good to read that people can still toss their cutlery in there any old way. I also worry about the Bosch not getting things dry enough, specifically plastic, but it is probably not a good idea to put plastic in the dishwasher anyway...

You can get a basket from Miele to put your silverware in that looks just like everyone elses.

No problem with plastic in either brand. They don't bake their contents to dry them like many domestic models.

Cncnh,

I'm glad to hear your Optima is working better than mine. I've spent hours on the phone with Miele tech support, they've sent a service tech here once to try to fix the blasted thing, and another service visit is scheduled. My dishes are still coming out beyond dirty...this is the worst-cleaning DW I've ever used. And dealing with Miele has been a painful experience. I bitterly regret this purchase.

we just got the diamonte plus, (and looked at the optima).
Compared to our prior 25 yo GE, this is terrific. very quit, cleans wine glasses, flexible, etc.

very satisfied, and only miss the split cutlerly tray, but did not want to pay 300 for that

Well, I also took the plunge and spent the extra $$$ for a Miele Optima (vs. the Bosch 800 series I'd been considering).

This thread has been very helpful in convincing me .... though I'd bought it right before I'd seen warmfridge's complaint about his Optima & service. Sounds painful. I do hope that's an aberration. ( I am guessing this may be why we didn't hear back from you on my thread on Miele vs. Bosch energy useage. Ouch).

Warmfridge, do you know what the problem is? Since our DW will be getting installed tomorrow, I'd like to query the Miele installers about what they know about this symptom, (or the type of issue). ... (and if it may be related to an installation issue, to reduce the odds we run into it too). If I hear anything useful, I'll certainly report back. And, in any case, good luck in getting sparkling dishes like others do!

Warmfridge- what are the specific symptoms of your Optima?

What was the diagnosis from first tech?

What parts were ordered?

What was/ is the hassle with cust. svc phone people?

Just a guess , but I'll wager you've got a faulty heater. Cold water doesn't make for very clean or dry dishes in a Miele or any other DW really.

Infohound - if it's a certified outfit they should run a cycle to see if the heater cycles on and the pump works before leaving. Sadly, few are organized enough to work this into their sched. Be sure the water line is flushed before connection the supply and that the electronic fill box is oriented in one of the two correct positions. Leveled and secured. It's not really that complicated , but it's unlike any other model out there so thought IS REQUIRED. Reading is also a nice skill to have if one hasn't installed one of these before, dialing on a telephone is a handy skill too as the mothership wants these installed right the first time too so they don't have to talk to an upset homeowner. They will provide phone support to field personel.

My DW was installed by a Miele-certified installer, and has been seen by a Miele-certified technician.

In a nutshell, my dishes are dirty. This includes stoneware, glassware, Pyrex, stainless bowls, baking pans, stainless flatware, you name it, from the top, middle and bottom racks. The residue is food, not detergent, that did not originally reside on the dishes where I find it at the end of the cycle. For example, this morning I had to SCRAPE tiny food blobs off the interior and exterior of a water glass when I removed it from the DW. Oddly, the things that are most apt to come out the cleanest are the things I would least expect, like casseroles with baked-on cheese and really yucky saucepots.

Before I even called Miele CS, I tried a little, a medium amount, and a lot of Cascade powder (enzyme kind), as well as a half or full Miele tablet, all with and without RinseAid, at the normal, pots and pans, china, and express settings, with full loads and part loads, loaded in umpteen different ways, double and triple-checked to make sure the spray arms weren't obstructed. There is salt in the DW and it's set to the right number for my water hardness. All these permutations produce dirty dishes. I have gone from scraping to rinsing to nearly washing everything before I put it in the DW. Other than the fact that I don't want to leave dirty dishes in the sink, I don't know why I'm bothering with the DW at all. I've emptied the bottom filter many times, and there's rarely anything in there.

I have had multiple phone conversations with Miele CS and Tech Support. Every time, I get different suggestions. For example, one person told me to use the P&P cycle, the next person told me not to because the hotter water could damage my dishes, and the next person told me to use P&P again. They finally decided that I needed a service visit. I went around and around with the service dept and no one would return my calls or schedule a visit. I finally called the salesperson where I bought the DW and he intervened to get me a service appt.

The service person came without any knowledge of the multiple lengthy phone conversations, didn't listen to anything I told him, ran diagnostics which did not disclose the source of the problem, spoke to someone else on the phone, they decided to turn up the sensitivity on the soil sensor and turn up the water temps to "see if it would help." No parts were ordered.

I think there might be something wrong with the drying function now too, because recently when the timer runs down to zero, the green light doesn't flash and the dishes aren't dry at all.

Please note that I previously had a KA that washed dishes much better than this but was unbearably noisy in my open-concept home. I didn't have to go through all these mental contortions to try to get the DW to work properly. This Optima is quieter, but not as quiet as the Miele hype led me to believe before I bought it.

During my last call with Tech Support, I was told that "maybe turning off the salt dispenser would help." And to go back to using the P&P cycle again. (This is after the tech visit where the temp on the normal cycle was supposedly increased.) I believe that the plan for the next tech visit is to disable the salt dispenser.

I've run out of things to try on my own. And I don't think any of the people that I've spoken with have a clue as to what's wrong with this DW. I can't begin to tell you how upset I am at both the DW's performance and Miele's customer support.

warmfridge, after living with the Optima for a few weeks now, I have to think that you've got a lemon there. I am constantly amazed at how clean my dishes are. Not a speck of anything anywhere. I never pre-rinse anything, and now I'm even putting in pots and pans just to see how well it works on those. So far, perfect.

I would think it would be easiest for Miele to just replace yours at this point, rather than risk multiple service calls and a dissatisfied customer. I know I mentioned this before, but I would invoke their "quietness and cleaning" guarantee in order to get a replacement. A big hassle, but maybe worth it in the long run? What a bummer.

infohound, I hope you like your Optima!

I think I got a lemon too! You never pre-rinse! Really?

I'm still waiting for the followup service visit...the 3-week wait for the "next available appt" isn't sitting well with me either. If they can't provide a definite diagnosis and appropriate plan, I intend to invoke that guarantee. The problem is that I'm now snowed in, and no appliances can be moved in or out of this kitchen until April sometime. Given their response so far, I doubt Miele will replace the DW when it's past the 90-day point.

I am debating between Inspira vs Diamante vs Optima. Front buttons vs fully integrated. I was quoted $1499 for Diamante Plus that is fully integrated. Should I use this price for a Optima with front buttons. Are the front buttons nice? Is there a child lock?

When we bought the fully integrated Diamante Plus (G2183SCVI) back in October the price was $1299.

I paid $1599 (plus $160 for the extended warranty) in November for my Optima G2432SC, which is not integrated (black panel), has front buttons, and has a child safety latch which I have not used.

I think that only the models with the controls on the front have child safety locks.

I like the look of the fully integrated models that "disappear" into the cabinetry, but that's really a personal choice.

Even though this thread is a little old, you may want to read my thread, as I too was recently debating the Diamante vs Optima dishwashers.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg040811546822.html?36

Their current prices are $1400 for the Diamante G2143SC and $1700 for the Optima, but still a $300 difference between them. I'm only a few miles away from the local Miele Showroom so was able to look at all the units there, but the Diamante was not hooked-up, so could only try out the Optima. It was quiet and the guy there said the Diamante would sound nearly identical that you'd need to put your ear right on it to hear a difference.

The only differences between the Diamante and Optima are the split cutlery tray, sensor dry that measures room temp (but the drying is still the same), turbidity sensory that tells how dirty the water is and will adjust the wash times, and vario water temp that will control the water temp better (both still have china/crystal). All the 6 wash program are identical on the Diamante and Optima, and both had the Turbo function. So since we felt there wasn't any major difference between the Diamante and Optima, we went with the Diamante since it was $300 less.

We've had it for 10 days now and love it. It sounds as quiet as the Optima that we heard on display. Everything comes out perfectly clean from the cutlery tray to the bottom rack. So spending the extra $300 for the Optima probably wouldn't of made any difference in the cleanliness of the dishes.