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loveumms_gw

Increased price for high end appliances

loveumms
9 years ago

Hi All,

Sorry for the long post - I'm getting incredibly frustrated with this process.

Has anyone been successful in negotiating appliance packages? We are looking at GE monogram, Thermador and Dacor - whole kitchen package (48'' double oven, 48'' build in fridge, range hood and dishwasher). In total we are looking to spend about 20K for these appliances and figured there would be some negotiation room ....

So we have been looking for the past four months. Went to what we thought was a reputable local dealer and we got two prices - a 'package price' which was in essence the builders discount and then the retail price about three months ago ( we are building a new house scheduled to break ground next month).

Went back to this dealer to purchase the appliances and were told by the sales person first that the manufacturing company stated that the retailers can no longer sell for under the MSP, "there were retailers undercutting prices and Thermador came out with a statement that we have to sell for a certain price". Found this out to be false as I talked to the corporate accountant for Thermador and he told me that manufacturers cannot force retailers to charge a price. Then we talked to the manager at the local store who told us that Thermador is increasing their prices 16% in 2015 and that Thermador decided to put that price increase into effect three months early. I called Thermador and talked to a few representatives who said they are not aware of any price increases. All sounds very shady and seems like this store doesn't want to offer the discount they gave us initially - which is certainly up to them but, just say you don't want to offer it instead of making up some lies.

Does anyone on this forum know if prices for appliances are set to go up in 2015? I guess if they come out with newer models, you would expect the prices to increase but if it's the same model, a modest increase I guess is expected but >10% seems steep (on a $10K stove).

Thanks!

Comments (50)

  • weissman
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In the US, manufacturers can impose minimum prices on retailers - it's call UMRP - Universal Minimum Retail Price - and the courts have ruled it legal. Not all brands impose it but many of the high-end brands do.

    Instead of a package - you should pick the individual appliances that meet your needs/desires and shop for those. Sometimes, even with some UMRP appliances, you can get a deal by negotiating free delivery, installation and/or extended warranties. If the items aren't UMRP, then you might try getting the stores to price match other stores or websites but not all stores will do that.

  • joc6820
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't know about negotiating appliance packages. I have done new construction twice in the last four years. First time I did the Thermador promotion ("free" stuff with a 3 year warranty, they don't do the extended warranty anymore I believe). Second time I did a Dacor promotion, again, free stuff and the 3 year warranty. In both cases, builder pricing was used, which was a substantial discount. I found this was the best way to go from a quality and value perspective. Most on this forum pooh pooh manufacturer promotions, but they have worked well for me. Most important, I think, is the quality of the service and support in your local area for a given brand. You can check this out. Also, IMO, a 3 year warranty is huge. Almost nobody does that anymore.

  • PRO
    Trevor Lawson (Eurostoves Inc)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Its true manufactures are not allowed to force a retailer to sell at a set price. But what they can do if a retailer is caught underselling is stop selling to them....

    Most appliance manufactures do increase the prices once per year, beginning of the year is the choice of most. Normally the average price increase is 3%-8%.

  • loveumms
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks everyone for your responses. We were at first given the 'builders' discount but then were told all these excuses for why they couldn't give us the price that was previously quoted by them (it ended up being $1300 cheaper then what they are asking for now).

    It just didn't make a whole lot of logical sense to me that manufacturers would increase their prices 3 months before the new year.

    Does anyone know if all appliance manufactures are increasing prices like we were told??? I wasn't sure if maybe there was some new government policies or something increasing the cost of manufacturing.

  • jdoenumber2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Should of bought them at that time. You snooze you lose. Glad to see that the dealer is upholding their agreement with the manufacturers. Ultimately the consumers will lose if the place they buy from goes out of business from losing profits. Appliances are not huge margin items. It is a volume based business. Take the focus off of the price and make sure they support the product. If so I'm sure it's worth paying what everyone else would.

  • Mags438
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Call your local distributor for those products. That's what I did when a sales person told me that the range I wanted was going up 10% so I better buy now! False, lost sale.

    So if a manufacturer cannot dictate selling at a set price, how are bose, tempurpedic and wolf getting away with it?

  • HerrDoktorProfessor
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One thing some manufacturers do is prohibit sales outside of a dealer's specific geographic region. This dramatically undercuts competition. They do this to protect the local vendors (for whom they often rely upon for service/repair after sale) from the large volume internet vendors.

    All of the vassals are given their little fiefdoms and it preserves the peace.

  • rococogurl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You cannot expect a dealer to hold a price for months. In the past, I was quoted a good price but with a time limit. Sometimes it's necessary to buy on the spot to get a discount.

    Forget the price you were given -- it's gone. Reshop when you're ready to buy.

    Provided you're willing to write a check for the appliances, one strategy is to ask for a 2-3% discount for paying cash vs credit card. I worked with a dealer who gave me his credit card fee as a discount when I paid by check. This dealer was very well known and reliable so I had no worries about that since you do give up protection against someone whose business might be shaky.

  • _sophiewheeler
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    4 months of shopping? And you want to know why no one will work with you to get you a deal. They've got your number. You aren't a buyer, you're a shopper. Go find your best deal on Ebay if price is your biggest concern.

    With your budget, price should be the least of your concerns. Quality and service should be what you are shopping for. Not a package ''deal''. Or reduce the level of your project to a plain old builder grade special cheap package where only one of the appliances is half decent. But they all share the same label.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was interested in the msrp legal issue because I studied it "way back when" but hadn't kept up over the years. Interesting changes.

    Next I'm going to look at California, where. I live.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Federal laws

  • PRO
    Trevor Lawson (Eurostoves Inc)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    From a retailers perspective its not so much about the law but more what a manufacture will do if the catch you underselling.

    Manufactures are not legally bound to sell to any retailer, we don't sign term agreements so they can cut us off at any time they want for any reason.

  • loveumms
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks holly for your completely useless and condescending post. It was three months because the builder pushed our design center appointment back. We had financing in place to purchase but didn't want to do so prematurely and have no where to put the appliances.

    We were ready to purchase when we went back in and we had been in contact with the appliance store the entire time. I think it's sad how sales people will lie through their teeth and expect customers to be stupid enough to believe the BS and not actually check it out. With the Internet, price shopping has become so easy and who would blame a customer for wanting the best price when they are spending 20k?

    Furthermore, who would want "service" from a company who lies? We met with another dealer today who gave us a much better deal anyway.

    Thanks to those who actually gave helpful replies!

  • jdoenumber2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Loveumms, holly is spot on. You are just wasting other people's time. And time costs money. Check out Amazon to see if there are any. Blackfriday hold overs deals. It's not always about the lowest price. How does it feel that you spent a lot of time with the first salesperson who helped you select the appliances you purchased somewhere else. They don't get paid by the hour. If they did they probably wouldn't work as hard to make your dream appliance kitchen selection. Some people know the price of every but the value of nothing.

  • weissman
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm actually appalled by the attacks on the OP by hollysprings and jdoenumber2. Consumers have every right to shop around for high ticket items. Not all appliance salespeople are paid on commission - some are salaried. In any case, part of their job is to work with customers whether or not each interaction actually leads to a sale. The more helpful and courteous they are, the more likely it will lead to a sale. When I bought my appliances, the salesman who worked with me gave me a quote good for a certain time period. He told me I could place the order by phone but to please mention him - he wouldn't get a commission but would be given credit at his performance review. When I was ready to purchase, that's exactly what I did.

    On the other side, salespeople do often qualify customers as to the likelihood of them making a purchase. I was once dismissed by a car salesman because I was young and not dressed up. Big mistake - I was ready to buy and pay cash but went to another dealership instead that treated me properly.

    This post was edited by weissman on Sat, Dec 6, 14 at 13:04

  • jdoenumber2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What's apalling is the fact she expected that 4 months would go by and she would get similar pricing. No there weren't any price increases over the past 6 months but the dealer decided to play by the rules. Wait till you see what happens if all consumers do is focus on price. That's what has happened on mass market appliances. Luxury brands are next unless they remain price protected. Just a question to all who are not in the business. How much markup or margin do you think are in appliances?

  • plllog
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!

    Everyone in sales--salesmen, not clerks--knows that shoppers can be converted into buyers. Some people need a lot of chitchat, research, hand holding, discussion, answers to the most outlandish questions, etc. And, yes, it's true that after investing all that into developing the sale, they go and buy off of eBay or even next door, but if you do it right, they buy from the person who was so good to them. There are a few toads, but most customers really appreciate the respect and relationship.

    The problem is the clerks. Order writers. Warm bodies. They're not on commission (or if they are, they haven't been taught how to earn it), and they just want to have the easiest day at work as possible and punch out their time cards (or wave their badges) and if it takes making crap up so they don't have to work harder, they will.

    You don't have to patronize that business. Or, if there isn't a good alternative store where you live, talk to a manager. Say you want to buy but you've been given a lot of horsefeathers and want a straight deal. While there are price floors, it's true, besides the negotiable delivery and installation, the store can also give you the ubiquitous free dishwasher, and other incentives and freebies. For instance, they might not be able to lower the price of the Wolf induction cooktop, but they can buy you a whole new set of cookware to use with it.

    There are very few retail situations where the price, if it's substantial, isn't negotiable. A chain grocery isn't going to negotiate on a pack of gum, but a $20K appliance package should have some wiggle room. The dealers need to make a profit, but they also benefit from sell through (sales volume), so generally are open to some kind of discount.

    Last resort: If this is the only store reasonably available to you, and you think the back and forth has poisoned the well, send your builder. Give him your list and your target price and let him (or her) do the deal. Appliance stores need builders and designers, and work harder to keep their custom.

  • HerrDoktorProfessor
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    At the end of the day the internet is dramatically changing the market place for everything. One of the big things it does is substantially shift the information asymmetry that exists between buyer and seller. Now more than ever before the buyer has information about other buyers transactions, sellers actual costs etc. Still other retailers are willing to attempt a business model with reduced margins spread over many more sales.

    Of course this has really changed the game for many big ticket purchases like autos but appliances cannot stay unaffected in their little bubble.

    while I feel for the OP, 4 months is a bit long to expect pricing to remain fixed especially if you were getting a special deal which are typically provided to incentivize an immediate sale.

    This post was edited by HerrDoktorProfessor on Sat, Dec 6, 14 at 13:57

  • jdoenumber2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The duality of the Internet is that there is the ease of acces to information exchange. It makes some shoppers Instant experts(they think) and the seasoned veteran salesperson seem untrust worthy. As a result, this shift will erode service. At the end of the day when the bill is paid no matter what or where you purchased, service matters most.

  • weissman
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    jdoenumber2 - some brick and mortar stores do have warranty service departments but in many cases it's the manufacturer who provides the warranty service through local contracts so it may not matter where you buy the appliance.

    You sound like a frustrated brick and mortar appliance seller. Unfortunately, the internet has created a huge paradigm shift and it's hard for some people to adapt.

  • jdoenumber2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am a seldomly frustrated(I love challenges) sales consultant and manager of a independent retailer. I love to help improve the lives of all who I deal with. Regardless if they buy from me or not(if they do it helps me pay bills and support my family) Everyday I do my best and it all comes back full circle. I have got much business from referrals that chose to do business elsewhere.

    I will always agree that market place has changed drastically over the past 15 years. I feel the best to come from it is innovation. And the worst of it is consumer distrust of the professionals like myself. I have been rather progressive with the change which has taken place. Adapt or die if the real name of the game.

    Above all clients and sales person aside is how the manufacturers choose to socially engineer all of us. They make a product. Some well some not so well. Some with price in mind others with quality in mind at no expense. They set prices and guidelines to follow. It makes the dealer seem dishonest as a result.

    About the gripe the OP had was a little bit annoying to me. Just because of the time span and her expectations. I'm sure the dealer was just following the rules and there can be rather harsh actions that can occur if they did not. The salesperson my not of done their job creating urgency and as a result they lost creditability. Value at that point cannot be reestablished and was lost.
    I probably would of been upset too.

  • dan1888
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree with jd, well I mean the reverse of his position. Sales bring little or nothing to the table in many cases. With the internet as a good information source they are often sucking a big payday for no contribution. They didn't design, manufacture or often service a thing. We don't need them and soon they will disappear. These guys deserve to be gone. They aren't asking for a price increase they incurred in the 4 months. The appliances don't cost them a dime more. They are just being greedy. The entitlement attitude they adopt justifies to themselves their bad behavior. They aren't worth your business.
    Shop on line and mix in appliances without discounting limitations. The seller can heavily discount those to make the bottom line add up to a fair amount. Go in with the amount you need to be at to get the deal done, not a percentage discount.

  • loveumms
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The whole point was the sales person lied to me twice about why the discount couldn't be given. If they just would have said "look we can't honor that anymore because X" then I would have been annoyed but it was the lies that made us go elsewhere. First to say that the manufacturer was forcing certain prices on retailers and then the manager came up with a different story claiming Thermador prices are increasing 16% (oh but this store was only going to charge us 12% of that 16%). Found out from the very helpful sales person today that yes, prices will go up but likely 3-5%. Would any one of you believe that a 16% price increase for the same model appliance is reasonable (or believable)?

    It was easy to call Thermador to find out both of these are untrue. So joe- the dealer wasn't complying with anything - it was jut another made up excuse for them to make more money. Greed made us take our business elsewhere and I will tell every person I know buying appliances to avoid this store.

    I appreciate a good sales person but when spending 20k on something, a certain level is expected and yes, I expect some room for negotiation - especially when we knew what the "builders" discount is (because the appliance store is still making money on that price). We were not wasting anyone's time and in total, we probably spent an hour with the guy. He would have had the sale if he was truthful. I personally think price is important but maybe I just don't want to throw my hard earned money away. All you people who are harping on a customer wanting to find a deal - do you pay sticker price for your car? Shame on you if you do but maybe others have way more money then I do.

  • _sophiewheeler
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Someone whose appliance budget exceeds my budget both for my first home purchase and my last car purchase, and which exceeds the entire budget of most of the kitchen projects that I worked on in my career has no business talking about throwing hard earned money away. It's precisely because I value value that I find someone who only shops based on a bottom line so puzzling. Value has little to do with expense. Expense has only to do with your pocketbook.

    Package deals throw money away. They waste resources on poor performance. Or poor service. No matter what the budget for the package might be, no maker does best in class. Even so, if you are presented with a deal for something that you profess to want, and you don't take advantage of it at the time, then that too is a waste of time and money. Quotes are usually only active for 7 days or less. And appliance retailers usually are more than happy to arrange delivery when you need it. You snooze you lose. You lost. Because you werent a serious buyer and thought that you could leverage thatt quote into something even better.

    UMRP is a very good thing for sellers as it keeps them actually open and the lights on. And that's why all of the high end manufacturers have moved to it. And that's good for consumers too. No one wants a world without brick and mortars where they can never see something before they purchase it.

  • plllog
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Loveumms,

    All I can say is that some people don't read very thoroughly. Sometimes, I'm tired and miss important bits too.

    To be fair, when I was doing my kitchen up, I had a lot of pressure and wasn't online for a couple of months. As it was easing, I figured it was the end of the year, and I'd better go order my appliances. Since I wasn't online just before, the 38% price increase instituted by Gaggenau (higher end brother of Thermador under BSH) went in three days before I got there! It was a very real, across the board, shift in pricing structure. I bit for the ovens, and found alternatives for the rest that had been priced beyond where I wanted to stretch. It was real. It may be that Thermador is doing something similar and it was the Thermador rep who was either uninformed or the one who was lying.

    That's not the point, of course. Either way, there's some wrong there. Until the announced price increase date, the price has not increased so offering you 25% off the amount of the increase is still charging you 12% more than the actual price, and is equally despicable.

    There are some car companies and dealers that do hold by the price on the sticker is the price you pay and stick to it, but I take your point. :)

    Re builder's discount, you're having a house built. Where I live, they just ask the builder to register his license number with them and let you buy whatever you need and get the discount. This is true from appliance stores to stone yards. There are a few places that only sell to the trades where you have to go with your builder/contractor, but very few insist that he pay for it. I think they actually want the contractor there to cut down on orders with the wrong dimensions and stuff like that, because a lot of homeowners are vague (others are very precise and know better than their contractors).

    Many stores can also hold your appliances during the build. This is a bit risky because if the store goes belly up before you take delivery, you probably won't get your appliances, even though you'll have paid for them. If it's a well established store with good custom, however, and a goodly warehouse, it can make your life a lot easier. I had a lot of delays waiting for tile to be made, and having the appliances held was a godsend.

    If you're sure that you want those Thermador appliances, it might behoove you to lock them in now.

    Good luck with it.

  • jdoenumber2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So lovemms. Did you get the price you wanted, the product you wanted, both or neither? What margin would you accept that a dealer should mark up stuff? Did you know that you need at least 20 points to keep the lights on in most markets? How about if you want Well paid highly trained staff? Service for the product? Assurance that the company will be viable for years to come? I will pay more in situations to make sure where I want to business will be around for me when I need them the most.

    The original deal sounds like a misunderstanding on both parties. I see no fault that they would not honor 3month old pricing. The crap answer they gave you was just that. For the most part price increases happen on the mass market end more often on the premium category. It is in the premium category the manufacturers make money. They are all in collusion with each other.

  • Mick Mick
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    LoveUmms, I hope that you are able to find a retailer that offers the price, quality and service that you desire.

  • loveumms
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We got a price that we felt was reasonable on a different set of products. We were not tied to Thermador and in the end we are happy with our choices and the amount of money paid.

    We went with a different company and I will never shop at the first place again. I'm at the point in my life where I know lots of people buying homes/remodeling and I will make sure others know what our experience with the first store.

    And hollysprings - I guess you think that because I have a decent budget (because I worked really hard for all that money - it certainly wasn't just given to me) that I shouldn't want to save as much money as I can. It's ludicrous that people think because you spend a lot on something you've dreamed of your whole life that you should pay out the nose. Whether you are saving $20 on a $100 purchase or $2000 on a $10000, it's the same.

    I don't think I was shopping just based on price. Yes, it was (and should always be) a factor. But, having a sales person (and their manager) lie to you, not follow up and basically just leave you hanging is unacceptable and anyone who wants to waste their money on that kind of business practice is more then welcome to. I will not. Additionally, we thought we were going to be able to purchase the items within a week of first going to the store but the builder had different plans for us and even thought the sales person KNEW we were delaying things, he never mentioned that the quote was time sensitive. In the end, it's their loss.

  • moosemac
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here’s my two cents worth:
    I am in the process of a kitchen renovation. I am an OCD budgeter and planner. When I made my appointment with the kitchen planner I told her I was 18-24 months from starting the project. She has been more than accommodating and came up with an amazing design. We keep in touch via email each month so she knows where I am in the project and I know of any upcoming style or price changes.

    For appliances I did a ton of research before I went to my local appliance store. Unfortunately they stopped carrying the brands I wanted so he gave me an introduction to a wholesaler who does builder pricing. Again I told the salesman up front my time table and he graciously invited me down to their showroom to go over my choices. He spent several hours with me and made some great alternative suggestions and gave me amazing pricing. We also keep in touch via email each month so he knows where I am in the project and I know of any upcoming style or price changes.

    Bottom line - I did not “waste” anyone’s time. I was up front about my time table and my budget and both the kitchen designer and the appliance salesman were on board from the beginning. A couple more months and I will be ordering everything. I can’t wait!

    If you are up front with people and stay in touch, good business people will work with you.

  • xedos
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here are my musings on all of this:

    Plllog - the customer is NOT always right, that's a BS marketer's catch phrase from a bygone era.

    Mumms- your car buying scenario is EXACTLY the reason that many people have a crappy car buying experience and car salesmen have such a bad rap. It that Monty Hall mentality that fosters the crappy experience.

    If you buy a Tesla you pay sticker price period. And you wait for it to be delivered on THEIR schedule. And guess what ? There is a waiting list. Some makes that are popular have a waiting list too, and you pay MORE than sticker price.

    I wouldn't put too much stock in what that customer service rep from Thermador call center has to say . These folks are some of the most ill informed people in the biz when it comes to operations and tech issues too. Don't equate "I haven't heard of that " from an agent to mean that it is fact. They are usually kept in the dark about about sales info and management decisions on purpose.

    Dan - you're quite naive if you think salespeople are a dying breed, despite many people's contempt for them.

    Weissman is correct about a paradigm shift occurring for consumers and retailers. Despite Amazon's and mr. Internet's attempts yo convince you otherwise- you cannot have EVERYTHING tomorrow for 15% off with a lifetime warranty, free shipping and easy returns.

    Spending a lot of money to you doesn't entitle you to special treatment. Twenty grand is a lot of money to you mumm, seems like a kings ransom to holly, and is pocket money to one or two folks around here. All depends on your perspective.

    Twenty grand on my average project will get you a fridge and an oven along with delivery and install, and a few accessories " thrown in" from us. Guess you'll have to save up for a cooktop, microwave and wash your dishes by hand for a while. That gets you our standard service, which we hope is better than most, but it doesn't put you at the top of our priority list simply because it cost more than 99% of other fridges, or is more than you've ever spent on one, or costs more more than your daughter's tuition payment. It's perspective , remember . And yours is not the only vantage point whether you are the salesman or the person writing the check.

    If someone or a business doesn't treat you well, why not just walk away? Lots of other people to hang out with and businesses to patronize, that it seems pointless to me to beat yourself up trying to "change" someone.

  • loveumms
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Xedos - nice perspective.

    It wasn't just the Thermador customer service rep I spoke with. It was a corporate accountant. Maybe you are right and that person isn't in the know. Just didn't make sense that all the other stores selling Theramdor didn't increase their pricing. And if your store is only giving an oven and fridge for 20k - I'm glad I didn't shop at your place.

    I disagree that you shouldn't expect a certain level of customer service when spending that much money. I don't think I expected special treatment but reasonable follow up and not to be lied to - should't be too much to ask. Difference of opinions is a good thing - makes the world an interesting place.

    We ended up getting our whole kitchen package for 3K less then what the first store was charging. With a five year warranty to boot. I researched the different products relentlessly this weekend and am satisfied with the items we chose. Only time will tell as it seems pretty much every brand and appliance has at least 100 unhappy customers online - just the nature of the game I suppose (things break). We still have all the original appliances in our town home going strong after 7 years so we hope to have the same luck and if not, then so be it we've been lucky so far.

    And we did end up walking away. Got a better experience elsewhere and I do not think I'm beating myself up. I would like to see my friends and family avoid going through such a lousy customer service experience and after doing some research on line over the weekend (which I should have done in the first place and saved myself a headache), it seems many others had similar experiences with this particular 'chain' of stores.

  • jdoenumber2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So in the end you made compromises and concessions. Looks like a win to me? Did you consider that maybe you were the reason of the miscommunication? In a builder deal about 16% if probably all the money made on the deal. not the price increase. I'm not implying that you fit this profile but, some dealers don't like people who can't be clear and follow up on details. Not my case for sure but you can imagine how other may think that someone with a similar situation could of been profiled as.

  • plllog
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry, Xedos, but "the customer is always right" is what they used to teach (I guess not anymore from what you say) in sales schools. That doesn't always mean that the customer is never told no, but even when the customer is clearly misinformed, the way to make the sale is to educate in a way that puts the customer first and make him feel cared for and important. Confrontation only turns customers away.

    Car buying is such a lousy experience because the salesmen are generally hired for if they look good in the company shirt and only care about their ups and conversions, rather than being trained. They also lie like the dickens and try to bully people into making a quick decision so they can get back in the rotation. A really good salesman can make more money by doing constant research to keep up with the competition, knowing the features and comparisons of his own stock, working leads and giving away lots of free information to build trust, and nurturing clients so that they're happy with their purchases and send referrals. All that is hard work, though, and since not so many people want to work hard and build success, the dealerships hire the hard luck cases that no one else wants to employ either, who hang around on the apron shooting the breeze when there's no traffic, rather than working the phones and learning their trade so they don't have to lie.

    Tesla is so different because they don't sell through dealerships. They do direct sales and have all the dealerships quaking because they're worried about the future of their business as usual models.

  • hvtech42
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The only people I hear say "the customer is always right" are the ones who have never run a business.

  • loveumms
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Joe - I'm not following you. I don't think we could have been more clear to the sales person through the process. And there wasn't anything to misunderstand. We had a written quote to start and then got two different explanations on why the price increased. To be honest, I think when we showed back up to make the purchase, the sales guy thought we were just going to accept the price increase and pay it - multiple times when I told him that we needed to think about it now he said "oh, I thought you were going to sign on the dotted line today". Sorry buster, maybe some people are naive and don't care about a couple thousand dollars but, that is not us.

    they can profile however they want - I think my profession requires strong attention to detail and follow through so I don't think that was an issue. that is their problem if they feel otherwise and it lost them a decent sale. I work in a big company and have a big mouth. I've already talked to two people at my work looking for appliances for their new home and have steered them away from this store.
    And I don't feel like we made any consessions. We are very happy with our decision - may not be the best/top of the line ... both my husband and myself don't care about that - we want to get decent appliances that will do what we need them to do, look nice in our new home and hopefully last. Maybe we were steered toward Thermador when we went in the first time and thought that is what we needed. there are so many options and so many opinions on appliances.

  • dodge59
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "The only people I hear say "the customer is always right" are the ones who have never run a business"

    NOT TRUE!

    I ran a Sales & Service business for 16 years, and that was OUR "Modus Operandi".
    I trained all my employees that was the way we did business and I made sure they followed our "Modus Operandi".

    Yeah, I could have made more money, operating like most businesses do nowadays, but then I would not have letters from customers saying "We are/were the best there ever was", and those letters, (at my age), mean more to me than money.

    We still did well enough to support 5 families for 16 years, until I retired.

    Gary

  • hvtech42
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Most of the time, I agree with the customer being right. The part of the statement I take issue with is "always". A very small minority of customers can be a pain in the rear to the extent that they just plain aren't worth doing business with. I'm not talking about confused/misinformed customers here, I agree with an earlier poster that they should be politely educated/corrected. I am talking about the type of customer who is unreasonable, looking to start trouble, and rude.

    I prefer "the right customer is always right." If a customer is polite and reasonable, like the majority of customers are, a business should do what it takes to make sure they are happy and have a good experience. But if they are a nasty customer - they aren't the right customer for that business and trying to make them happy would be a lost cause.

  • hvtech42
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    By the way - those are just my musings in general on the statement "the customer is always right". They aren't meant to be a reflection on the original situation in this thread at all.

  • plllog
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hvtech, I agree with you. Perhaps I might try a little harder to convert someone who was nasty. Sometimes that person has just had a bad day or had too many experiences like the OP, and, like a child testing limits, is (usually unconsciously) trying to see how much weight he/she can throw around. Sometimes a little sweet talk and personal interest can tame them. But there also are the mean drunks and the somewhat unhinged ones, who do have to be shooed away. Even in the shooing, however, I would try to treat them with dignity and deference so that they couldn't complain of the treatment, even if they complained that they weren't served.

    But, yes, I have run a business and still do, and try as hard as I can to make sure that the customer has a good experience and feels well taken care of. What sets bricks and mortar apart from internet (and I've been in both) is that in a store people can see and feel the merchandise, and be helped by someone who wants to help them and make them happy.

    In the late 1990's, after I'd been in e-commerce for a number of years, my crystal ball told me that any kind of indistinguishable product, like toothpaste or tumbler glasses, was going to be available at big box and big discount stores, and on the 'net, and that interesting, unique, or highly differentiated items (the kind that require good sales assistance) would be sold in smaller, often one off, local stores. It tickles me to know that I was right. The market is moving more and more this way.

    Yes, people look at shops then buy cheaper on the 'net. And, yes, people research on the 'net (sometimes in store aisles on their phones) and buy local. Yes, it's all changing. What doesn't change is that people like social interaction, and if you engage them, and make them feel good and do whatever you can to give them what they want, they don't generally walk away to see if they can find the same thing for a dollar less, on sale, online. They make their purchases. They come back. They refer people.

    It may be true that the era of "retail is a tap just waiting to be opened to pour money into your bucket" is over, but those who are willing to work at it, find the proper inventory mix for their markets, and treat the customers like kings and queens, can still do very well.

    Loveumms, you can't convince he who will not hear. I just read an article about research into perceptions of changing weather patterns. People were perceiving the actual weather anomalies and altered trends that had been recorded, but their perception of whether that constituted "climate change" depended entirely on their political persuasions and personal observation and notice of the actual changes did not.

    "Profiling" doesn't work in sales. You can "qualify" people by asking them what the purpose of their purchase is and what they're going to do with it. You can get a sense of whether they're serious buyers, and also, usually, if they have the money available to spend. You cannot tell anything by their dress, physical looks, or demeanor. The tubby lady in the petites department may be shopping for a relative. The boistrous and shabby looking guy might be a rap star. The most you can tell is that the sharpest dresser, at least in Southern California, probably isn't the one with the most money to spend. That is, he's a working stiff, not wealthy. That doesn't mean that person isn't a buyer, just don't expect a honeypot. Those with the wherewithall to make extraordinary purchases, don't feel like they have to impress anybody, and generally look mundane. The exception is the personal assistants. They dress, and are working stiffs, but they're spending someone else's money. :)

    And when I ran a fine art gallery and the homeless (one knows who lives out in the neighborhood--I'm not talking about looks) came in to look when we weren't busy, I showed them around and told them about the artists same as I would any other customer. If you're in the habit of treating the least of us with human dignity, you'll be in a much better mindset to deal with the edgy high rollers as well.

  • jdoenumber2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A customer is only after the purchase. Prior to that they are a prospect. Customers are always more right than prospects. And customers are not time wasters. Neither are most prospects but some are not worth having as customers. Should of put a deposit down to be taken serious in this situation.

  • kaseki
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In eras of stable currency valuation, one might expect an offered price to last for some time. We haven't lived in such a era for quite a while. Whenever debt is monetized, or dollars created out of thin air to save some institution, domestic or foreign, it dilutes the value of the currency so a real thing requires more currency to acquire it.

    We typically look to the consumer price index to indicate the effect of monetary inflating on inflation. Unfortunately, this measure has been corrupted at various times (e.g., by the agreement between Gingrich and Clinton to keep down cost of Social Security benefits). The CPI basis (basket of goods) is now redefined as necessary to achieve a value desired by the administration in power. For a more consistent CPI, look to shadowstats.com for information.

    The point here is not the morality of inflationary looting of savings and inter-raise salary values, but that one should in present circumstances expect an average of a percent increase every month or two, depending on too many factors to address here. High end manufacturers, in particular, are less likely to cut the input costs of their products, so monetary inflating will show up there as price inflation sooner than for mass production items where more opportunity to find ways of cutting cost are available (e.g., reliability).

    kas

  • plllog
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A customer is only after the purchase. Prior to that they are a prospect

    This is technically true, especially with high end goods, like cars, which tend to be, for practical purposes, one off sales.

    OTOH, prospects must be nurtured and developed to convert. Treating them as less than customers means that they become someone else's customers.

  • loveumms
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pllog - well put. That is what I would expect to hear from decent, reputable sales person.

    Putting a deposit down to be taken serious on an appliance purchase .... that is absolutely ridiculous and comical.

    Thanks so much everyone - will certainly come back once we have the appliances installed and help others with reviews. Until then, happy 'appliancing'

  • sprtphntc7a
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    loveumms,

    after all this, which appliances did u end up buying???
    just curious.....

  • outie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Does anyone know if there's going to be a price increase soon? We missed the rebate period (1/1/14-12/15/14) for the free dishwasher. We hope they run the promo again on 1/1/15. If they are going to increase the price I think we will have to look for another range. Thanks.

  • malba2366
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Im sure they will bring back the rebate...it has been going on contunuously for a long time. I doubt they will raise prices significantly, there is a lot of competition in the high end appliance market, and Thermador has always provided good value with the free dishwasher/hood. If they drop the promotion I see no reason not to either go with SZ/Wolf, or pick individual appliances from different makes that meet your needs best.
    I read most of this post and see that you had some drama with pricing of the appliances. You should look at the website of AJ Madison or any other internet seller of appliances and look at the prices of Thermador...they are the same everywhere.

    This post was edited by malba2366 on Tue, Dec 16, 14 at 19:15

  • appliance_101
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Posted by trevorlawson (My Page) on
    Fri, Dec 5, 14 at 19:01

    Its true manufactures are not allowed to force a retailer to sell at a set price. But what they can do if a retailer is caught underselling is stop selling to them....

    Most appliance manufactures do increase the prices once per year, beginning of the year is the choice of most. Normally the average price increase is 3%-8%.

    re: there are a few things that can happen when a dealer is selling under UMRP for a period of time. If the product has a volume rebate ( a kickback the dealer gets at the end of the year for being loyal to one brand ) they can with hold the rebate which costs the dealer money at the end of the year if they see occurrences of selling under UMRP. The second penalty is that some high end appliance distributors will stop selling to the dealer who continually sells under UMRP. . The third penalty is that they can declare them an unauthorized dealer and the remainder of there stock will not be covered under the manufacturers warranty when sold. Every manufacturer in the industry handles this differently and there tolerances vary. When the product has a running change ( meaning the features change without changing the model number then the dealer has a right to sell it off at a discounted price. They may or may not disclose to the customer that they are selling last years design. Some differences can be a subtle as lighting changes from halogen to LED> Typically the manufacturers impose price increases as cost of material goes up ( such as stainless steel ) and these increases are handed down usually once a year.

  • jakvis
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A lot of interesting comments here but I have a friend in the metal working business and he was grousing the other day about the huge increases in metal prices over this year especially Stainless Steel and Copper.

    It could be that the new prices are reflecting the higher material costs.

    I've added a link I found from Bloomberg written last May.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Bloomberg article on jump in SS price

  • PRO
    Pacific Sales - San Antonio
    9 years ago

    Hello Loveumms,

    Let me clearify a couple points for you in respect to discounts and also the "price increase" that is coming. UMRP is the minimum price the luxury brand will allow retailers to sell their product for. Retailers may choose to discount, however they can loose the ability to sell the product due to licencing agreements. As said before some companies can throw in services to help a customer out. As for the price increases this happens nearly every year and will start effecting the sales price within the next month. I hope that this helps!

    Ezra

  • xedos
    9 years ago

    Ezra, did you even bother to read the discussion ???

    You revived a two month old thread to restate info that had already been dispensed - twice. Are you just trying to promote your internet presence ?

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