I'm now in the market for a double oven since my 12 y.o. Thermador committed suicide last Thursday. Shopping around different websites, I noticed something. Apparently self cleaning can shorten the life of our ovens. At least according to ABT's video on ovens. I would also wonder if the enamel might have cracked. I certainly wouldn't tell Wolf about using 409. NEVER use cleaning products on self cleaning ovens. That's what self cleaning is for! You should carefully clean the glass, because self cleaning only works on the metal surfaces.
Good luck!

Hmm that's interesting about the self cleaning feature shortening the oven life span. I certainly thought twice about it, especially after reading about the porcelain cracking, but no amount of scrubbing was cutting it. And I did follow Wolf's directions explicitly, including using 409, which is now in their list of approved chemicals.

Oven has cooled down a bit so I opened the door and so far it all looks ok. But it was dark so I wasn't able to examine then porcelain very well and I didn't turn the oven on either. I may for Wolf to come out for that.

From Wolf L series owners manual:

You may hear a popping or crackling sound during the self-clean cycle. These sounds are normal and are caused by the expansion and contraction of metal surfaces as they heat up and cool down. It is also normal to see a brief flame-up, depending on the amount and content of the soil.

Can't hurt to call Wolf though and ask, particularly because of the spark.

Hvtech is most likely spot on. And I can't recommend enough don't selfclean your range. If you do only do it under warranty period and never within a month of thanksgiving or Christmas.

Good luck!!!

Yep I read that in my manual too. This was definitely a loud pop and I don't think sparking outside the oven is normal. The oven has been especially warm all day today and it's been off since last night. Well, with the exception of this morning when I turned it on for 5 seconds just to see if it still would heat. That's when I noticed something dancing around the bottom of the oven. Tiny shards of porcelain. I can't find the crack anywhere but something definitely went wrong. Wolf technician is coming out Thursday. Will update then.

I am sure Wolf will fix it as long as you are under warranty. The problem is after the warranty is up. I would try to negotiate a longer warranty now while you might have some leverage. Tell them you have read about the blue enamel issues and maybe they will extend your time. My warranty was only two years for the porcelain and it failed at 4.5 years. Some people get three but maybe you can talk them into 5 years.

Thanks wekick. The sales rep I've been working with was confident of that too. You offer a great suggestion though, about extending the warranty. I'm definitely going to beig that up when this is settled.

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This post was edited by aprilh on Wed, Nov 5, 14 at 7:51

I have read several articles that say never to use the self cleaning feature as it shortens the life span of the oven. Sad, right? Stay on top of Wolf... It's terrible how poorly things are built these days. We ordered three fridges from PC RIchards and four months later, we have exchanged one three times, one four time and are waiting on the last one to be exchanged. Sickening. All came in broken or scratched. I digress. Sorry!

This is supposedly effective: http://wellnessmama.com/211/natural-oven-cleaning/

I have not tried it yet as we are under reno and don't have a range installed yet. (Bought the wolf, too).

This lady used a paint brush.... definitely a project but, hey, open a bottle of wine and it won't be so bad! :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Link:

I think it's absolutely insane to buy a $6000 range with self-cleaning feature and then to be told -- or even think it's ok -- not to use the self clean.

If the self-clean feature cannot be used easily over the life of the range then that is not a product that consumers should accept.

As long as folks continue to buy this BS then this will continue to happen.

Wine doesn't help. This is unacceptable and until that's made crystal clear to the manufacturers this type of rip off will continue. And it's a rip off. Wolf should be ashamed.

Posted by rococogurl
I think it's absolutely insane to buy a $6000 range with self-cleaning feature and then to be told -- or even think it's ok -- not to use the self clean.

Amen. $6K and up. It is ridiculous in light of the fact that there have been so many ovens over the years that I have used that were cheap and I never gave self cleaning a thought. I just did it. It worked. No problems. This is not ruining electronics, but the structure of the oven. All for pride of the blue enamel. They won't fix the problem. Maybe most people that buy these ovens and ranges just go ahead and agree to blindly pay whatever they want to charge, as they won't tell you an amount, when it is out of warranty so it is a source of revenue for them.

Agreed! I bought one anyway bc I love the look and do not use the oven often..... but it's really sick.

With all ovens, you increase the risk of a component failure by running self clean (porcelain issues aside). You are heating the oven over 900 degrees, that puts stress on stuff. If you can't take the risk, clean it manually, but most people would rather avoid the work of cleaning manually.

Most repairmen will tell you not to run self clean. That's because every year right before Thanksgiving, they get tons of calls of oven failures right after people ran self clean. It's impossible not to make a connection of some kind. Moral of the story is, don't run self clean right before you really need your oven. Whether you run it the rest of the time is up to you to decide.

900 degrees. Amazing!

I sincerely thank you for that intel. Makes me feel better about elbow grease.

Posted by hvtech42 (My Page) on Wed, Nov 5, 14 at 13:33
With all ovens, you increase the risk of a component failure by running self clean (porcelain issues aside). You are heating the oven over 900 degrees, that puts stress on stuff.
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The incidence of this has increased recently and what would it be if people weren't told "Don't use self clean." All of my and my mothers ovens tolerated it without problems. I used it a lot. Even the Maytag Gemini I had with electronics had no problems. I know in many beach condo rentals, they put the oven through self clean every week between rentals. Many brands are not made to withstand the heat now either due to bad enamel or electronics and they should get rid of self clean if the oven cannot withstand it. Seems like a fraud.

Maytag Gemini is a freestanding range, freestanding ranges have always been less susceptible to self clean issues due to the placement of the control panel. Wall ovens have had more problems in that area. I'm not saying that you will encounter an issue every time you run self clean, but the risk increases. This has been an issue ever since they started putting electronics in wall ovens. I wouldn't say the quality of the new electronics are worse than older electronics, but both are certainly more at risk than mechanical controls.

If the geniuses at Wolf cannot work out self-clean and electronics then they need to get rid of one or the other and change what they are making.

Otherwise, it is fraud. Because they are selling you something that does not work as advertised.

I had a Viking self-clean that only did the back part, cooked the electronics and never worked properly again.

They refused to repair it and I had them buy it back. I was counseled not to buy another self-clean, I didn't and it's not like cleaning your Mom's oven. Mostly the stuff wipes out and it you keep it up pretty well it's no big deal.

Until people stop drinking the marketing Kool Aid this will continue.

It really does merit a recall if not a class action suit.

I have had self -cleaning ovens since about 1975. All GE and all self-cleaned regularly. Only problem I have had is with the newest Profile wall oven. That one has electronic controls that the old ones didn't use. It developed oxidation on the connectors to the board. Had to clean it off. When it gets cranky, I just wap it with the palm of my hand till the touch buttons work. I think there are a lot more problems with expensive ovens that do so much.
Too complicated!

The Wolf repairman came out this week. Wish I could have been home when he inspected it but I did get to talk to him afterward. He said it is fine. He basically took it apart, inspected it top to bottom, ran safety tests and said everything is ok. I was a little skeptical but he sounded like the knew what he was talking about. Said the metal walls can pop or crack while heating and it needs to do this because of how thick they pack the insulation in the walls. He said the little pieces of porcelain may be from the metal seams in the cavity. There aren't many pieces, thank goodness, and I still haven't found the source so wherever it is, it is minor.

We talked about the issue of porcelain cracking that I read about and he said it is a known issue with one type of Wolf wall oven (can't recall which one) but not with the range.

He said I need to run self clean again but I doubt I will. Easy Off fume free is on the approved list of cleaners and I've got that on my Amazon list. I've heard too many negative stories about the self cleaning feature and would rather avoid it.

If this was my one-month-old range I would have them buy it back immediately. Little pieces of porcelain appearing in the oven -- however small -- would not be Ok. Not at all.

" Posted by aprilh
I was a little skeptical but he sounded like the knew what he was talking about. Said the metal walls can pop or crack while heating and it needs to do this because of how thick they pack the insulation in the walls. He said the little pieces of porcelain may be from the metal seams in the cavity. There aren't many pieces, thank goodness, and I still haven't found the source so wherever it is, it is minor.
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I would love to hear an explanation of why the walls of the oven need to pop and crack because of the insulation. These pops are the flexing of the metal with heating and cooling and might not be unexpected but are not needed. Have you ever seen a cookie sheet do this in the oven? The problem is that the metal walls are covered with enamel which is glass and in the case of many Wolf ovens, the flexing makes fine hairline cracks. Everytime the metal is flexed with heating and cooling, these cracks rub and chip against each other sending tiny fine shards of glass out. If you use the fan and possibly just with air currents, these shards of glass, especially the very tiny ones can fly around in your oven. I don't want to take a chance on it getting in my food or even breathing it.

"We talked about the issue of porcelain cracking that I read about and he said it is a known issue with one type of Wolf wall oven (can't recall which one) but not with the range.
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:-O My range is not aware of that!

It has chipped all the way to bare metal!

At 4.5 years, with light use as I mainly use a wall oven, I cleaned the oven and to my horror it was chipped to the bare metal. There was another range owner on this forum with the same issue in their DF range and in my smaller market there have been others. It has not been reported in the Wolf all gas range. When I first complained I was told it is normal. When I balked at that then they wanted pictures. After much haggling over this known issue, they would supply the part, and a few hundred dollars toward labor but would not give me an estimate only that the labor would start at $800 and go up from there. The new part would only be guaranteed for one year and they didn't say if labor would be covered with it. We decided not to throw money down a rat hole if that was all the confidence they had in their product. My Electrolux had the same issue and total cost to repair was $425 and I could have gotten it for less had I gotten bids. It was paid for by the extended warranty. Electrolux seems to have fixed their problem. I was told when I bought my Wolf DF range that I would not need an extended warranty because Wolf would stand behind it. They actually did at one time as there was a person with 4.5 year old double ovens that they replaced for the blue chipping issue for $500 which was the cost of some upgrades on the new ovens. They just don't provide that level of service anymore. If you read on this forum, Wolf sales and repair seem to say all kinds of things to minimize the extent of the problem.

I would try to get them to buy it back too. The scary thing is they that it sparked and then they said there is nothing wrong or gave no explanation for what might have happened. I would feel a little better if they had found something to fix. They also did not tell you the truth about the ranges. It may be that that particular tech did not know. If you keep it, I would go over it periodically with a white damp paper towel and look very closely for sparkly blue glass and some thin shards will even be clear. It might take awhile before the source becomes evident. You might see better with a good flashlight. Document everything very carefully.

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This post was edited by aprilh on Sun, Nov 9, 14 at 12:03

Recent info on purchasing extended warranty. We just installed a wolf dual fuel. If you went with an authorized installer, you can get an additional 1 year warranty. When I looked into purchasing additional warranty years, I was told it was 10% of the purchase price per year.