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Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

Posted by MichelleDT (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 17, 11 at 19:11

Hello All...

We are building a home and struggling with an oven decision. We are committed to the Capital 60" range. I want an additional bank of ovens and was originally set on the Gaggenau but then looked at Capital and DCS.

Also, thoughts on vent hoods? Looked at Futuro for the contemporary hoods (design is contemporary/modern).

Thoughts?

Thanks!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

The best electric ovens are Gaggenau and Wolf.


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

I went with

Capital Culinarian Range
Gaggenau wall oven
Independent hood

There has been little feedback on Capital wall ovens but most of the feedback is negative. I don't trust DCS now that Fisher & Paykel have taken over. First choice would be Gagg and second Wolf.

The widest actual hood FF makes is 48". The nominally wider ones are dishracks attached to the hood. With a 60" range you should buy a hood where form follows funtion not the other way around.

Sleek and modern mean no mechanical capture and generally mesh instead of baffle filters.There are lots of really good hood companies out there. You should go with a hood at least 60" wide but preferably 66".

Best would probably be your least expensive decent choice. Other good choices are Modern-Aire,Prestige,Eurostoves Hood by Modern-Aire,and Independent.There are other brands with good specifications but not so popular here.Don't have any experience or much knowledge of Imperial(w/baffle filters),Air King,Rah Urth,plus others but they do have hoods with specifications that meet your needs.There are several small makers that specialize in copper hoods if you fancy that look like Vogler.


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

Thanks so much....back to my original decision of Gagg. Good info on hood....obviously, I have much more research to do based on your comments.

Cheers.


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

We recently installed a Capital Maestro single wall oven, so have not fully tested its features (rotisserie, moist assist, etc.). I'll be able to say more after T-day. So far it is working fine baking little things like cookies and casseroles--very well, in fact. My advice would be to check one out installed. The mode and temperature controls are different from other ovens, because they are not touch controls, and the temperature display is dim for us (have to qualify that). So no problems so far except for getting used to controls we did not expect because we ordered it sight unseen. And be sure you get it from a supplier who will work with you to resolve any issues you may have.


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

Not sure I can go along with the "2 best ovens are Gaggenau & Wolf, sorry.

Let's do our research on the Gaggenau ovens?

So we peruse a lotta sites.
So far can find only 5 reviews, on any Gaggenau ovens,
(discounting duplicate reviews by the same poster but on different web-sites). Anyway of the 5 reviews I found,
3 reviews are 1 star out of 5, problems ranged from shattered glass door. to long preheating, and uneven temp and complaints about very poor repair service/support---the shattered glass was not honored under warranty.

There was one 4 stars review and one 5 star review, AJ Madison. Interesting that AJ Madison is offering an extended warranty on the oven for about $400 for 5 years.
I though the Gaggenaus already had a factory warranty of 5 years, at least according to this "Usually Knowledgable Poster"

"Should also be noted that they do have the industry's best warranty at 5 yrs. parts and labor on all products! That was the main reason for the 40% hike a few years ago -

but, you are simply paying them up from for the insurance/ extended warranty."

The above post (at least to me), reflects Gaggenau's own thoughts about the reliability of their ovens. Lets do a little math here, OK?. From what I have found , so far, It looks like the price of a Gaggenau double oven is in the
$8000.00 range, (maybe more, they hide the prices like Wolf Does)--so we go with the 8 grand. Now we take $40% of that,
=== $3200 yep!!!!! $3200.00 Big ones!!!
Do any of you know ANY appliance that you are being charged $3200 for a 5 year warranty?????---One would thing Gaggenau
should be able to compute (correctly) the cost of an extra 4 years of warranty?

If you must have the Gaggenau ovens, there are:
"Litterally tons of Deals" out there on discounted Gaggenau ovens, but as Antss warns, and taking the recent
Miele DW Episode into account BE Extremely Careful with these "Deals".

Later, I will do more research on the Wolf ovens, Not having owned or baked with one, I will NOT say it is:
"Better, Equal to, or not as good as my Elux.

Good luck with your pending decisions.

To find some of the info I just found,
"Google Gaggenau Oven Prices"

HTH's!!

Gary


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

Thanks Gary! I am rethinking this as well...the ovens would serve as "overflow" for entertaining and holiday cooking. I don't use my ovens on a daily basis - primarily cook on my rangetop and grill for normal daily use. I think the additional $$'s over other brands (Electrolux in now one I am looking at) would be would better spent in other areas of the house.

I originally wanted a SubZero put really struggling with a $10K food preserver....just my husband and I and I market frequently and have a CSA delivery so don't buy in bulk. With a contemporary style kitchen, I do want it to be integrated and my 12 year old Kitchenaid built in is has been a workhorse....the compressor and chilling unit went out in year 10 (3 months left on warranty) and they replaced both with no questions. In fact, I didn't even realize it was still under warranty...they told me! Love the Miele but geeze, that is even mooe expensive!

I am so glad I found this site...the info is amazing. I am sure I will be back with more questions.

Thanks again everyone!

M


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

YMW, Michelle.

As I recall, we did have a poster with both a Wolf oven and an Elux oven, (Captain Cook or similar name , as I recall).

He liked both of them and said they "compared favorably"--
(paraphasrasing) and as I recall He said the preheat was a bit faster with the Elux. Hopefully He is still around and can add more!

Regarding Fridges, at least take a look at the Jenn-airs, they are usually rated the highest by "responders" to Consumer Report surveys about reliability of various appliances so this is NOT, I repeat NOT "Consumer Report's
Take" or rating on the Jenn-air Fridge.

Wev'e had the JA 48" built in a panneled fridge for 5 years now, and except for a burp with the icemaker (that fixed itself), it has been trouble free for the 5 years we've had it. One thing I particularly like is the ability to set 3 different temps in the fridge compartment, One for the main area, 38F, ond for the produce 34F and one for meats (which we like to keep lower 31F.

As with any of the new fridges, it will keep any food longer than USDA recommendations (the foods loose vitamins after a while, (even thou the fridge may keep them looking great) so we won't get into a "Contest" here, on whose fridge keeps food the freshest, the longest.

The fridge is very very quiet, and I have a heck of a time to tell if it is running, no doubt due to its variable speed compressor---which by the way SZ lacks.

The bad news is, that since I bought mine, Whirlpool bout JA and has price fixed them, as is SZ. However we do see a lot of posts on Jenn-air "Deals" (new ones sold through "authorized dealers"---so at least have a look!

We truly hope you are as fortunate in your upcoming purchases as we were , 5 years ago, I only made one "Blooper" but boy was it a "BIGGIE" (Caldera Cook Top).

Gary


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

Gary,

I'm pretty sure the price increase in the Gaggenau ovens was to realign the U.S. prices with the monetary divergence, and to capture more for the increase in stainless steel prices. That, and to realign themselves with what the market would bear, not knowing how close they were to world financial collapse. The extra warranty was just another feature they could add.

Any idiot can shatter the glass on an oven door. I would agree, however, that one should only buy Gaggenau if there is a good licensed service company in the area. Gaggenau do not hand hold. In my region, their distributor does. And the service is excellent. If you're outside of areas that serve Gaggenau, it's might not be worth taking the chance that you'll never need service over the life of the oven.

When I said "best" I was talking about performance. That's subjective, of course. One thing is the controls. You have complete control over the oven. Including that you can set it for slow preheat (which I need for my baking), or for fast preheat. Very few ovens do that nowadays. Whoever was complaining about the preheat time didn't read the manual. Even on slow preheat it doesn't take an extended period, but if it's too long, one can opt for fast preheat. And if that's too long, the oven needs a service call.

The oven is very accurate and heats very evenly. Again, the person who posted otherwise probably needs a service call. Just because a design is good doesn't mean that there isn't a possibility that something can go awry. Sometimes there's an installation error. Sometimes there's shipping damage. One has to assume that at least once in awhile one escapes from the factory inspection with a problem.

So, yes, for people outside of the service area, it might not be the best. It's never going to be the Consumer Reports best value for the money. It is, however, the best money can buy by the criteria of control, reliability and ability to execute any recipe without compromise.


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

Apologies, Michelle, for the tangent. Gary occasionally feels the need to slam appliances that cost more than his did on general principal. It's not a bad thing and keeps us honest, but I truly don't think the few bad reviews he found have any meaning.

You don't need the best ovens money can buy for overflow. If you're going to be having caterers, I can tell you from experience that they'll be thrilled to use Gaggenau ovens. Our caterer's best chef chooses to work at our holiday party during the busiest part of the busy season because he likes the oven. :) If you're going to mostly use it for heating casseroles, and baking cookies, any good oven will work.

Gary will sing the praises of Electrolux for you, for good reason. Although Deeageaux doesn't trust DCS because it's made by F&P, Rhome410, who cooks and bakes a lot, still recommends the function of F&P even though she had trouble with the enamel. She says she's the only one she's heard of with her problem. It was a very accurate and even oven. Presumably the DCS is too.

Capital is too new on the market to know for sure. Some people here have them, but we don't have enough in use reports yet to be sure of the performance. There are some issues with the racks, I think. It would match your range, but I'm thinking that might be a good reason to get something else. When you have two different ovens, you get to learn which one does which task better. For instance, in my mother's kitchen, one oven was better for broiling and one was better for baking. It's not that both couldn't do both tasks, but which they were better suited for. Making puffs in the better broiling ovens meant a lot of watching over them. Making them in the better baking oven was no work at all.


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

My goal, same as yours, pillog, (and you probably are one of the most helpful on GW), is to try to ensure that folks that are buying appliances now, are as happy with the performance and reliability and PRICE, of said appliances as we are with ours!

I don't know if you noticed the (" ")both before and after.

Begin quote from You Know who. (Below)

""Should also be noted that they do have the industry's best warranty at 5 yrs. parts and labor on all products! That was the main reason for the 40% hike a few years ago -

but, you are simply paying them up from for the insurance/ extended warranty."
End Quote from (you know who).

I was quoting that from another poster here, who seems to have "Inside knowledge" about appliances, particularly what has become known as the "Premium Brands", so that was his input, his "train of thought" his "Words of Wisdom", (if you will). I do not have "Inside info" of this type, but being an electronic engineer and owning my own business for 16 years, I am familiar with the prices of various parts,
heating elements, heating sensors, Control boards for same, temp sensors, etc etc----so I hate to see what some of these companies are charging for appliances. Some of these appliances are as much or more than cars, and the heaters, compressors for the AC units, computers in the cars make the ones in appliances look like "Tinker Toys" and hence my more that "Eager" tendency to point out "Price Gouging", (Yes I admit it)!!

I think that same poster hit the nail on the head when He mentioned paying for the "Big Shots" Yachts (LOL).
I think it is deploarable that those huge increases were
fousted upon us at a time when the economy is in the dump, for way too many of our folks here. Yep , you and I got our appliances at a good price, due to your diligent research.
I wish the same for anybody purchasing appliances now, don't you too?

As I mentioned long time ago, one thing that bothers me, is when Miele, SZ Gag etc run a rediculous price up a pole, unfortunately the rest of the manufactures "Pay Salute to that flag too" and raise their prices, even in this economy.

Anyway, there's the rest of the story, As I am with Rhome, I am truly glad you found the appliances that work the best for you and reliably and I did not make that post with the intent of running down, any of yours, remember you got a deal on them, that's all I want for the next buyer!!!
OK?

Gary


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

Thanks again for the continuing posts....all of the info and opinions are valuable to me. It was because of this board that I scrapped my WOLF "had to have attitude" and explored open burners (freaked me out a week ago) which resulted in the decision to go with the Capital range. I will be making the trip to a showroom to demo this range but based on reviews, functionality and features, probably won't budge on decision there.

Based on the feedback of this group and other research, Capital ovens are out for me...not enough time on the market. Not enough reviews. Wolf is just too much to spend on ovens that would be used several times a year (I am not a baker... won't ever be a baker and can't even to pretend to be one when even my nieces visit). Gagg prices are up there with Wolf so I think that may be off the table too. For the way we cook (two of us) I think the majority of our cooking will be done on the range/oven.

I am liking the idea of having two single wall ovens rather than a bank (again...an idea fostered on this board) and want them to be "great" but also a good value for the usage they will get. My DH just asked me if I could take a good air massage tub soak in an oven....yes, he can be a SA (not usually tho) but he is right...for the savings, I cold get the tub I really want. We are also fitting an in-law kitchen in the basement so costs are starting to add up quickly.

I too want a steal of a deal! Are they still available?? In Colorado? I have time to search but want to narrow the choices down so I can focus on finding a crazy happy deal.....

More research and more questions so hope all with hang in there and continue to reply to my ongoing questions.

Cheers!


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

Yes, I do still think DCS would be a good oven... However, I looked into replacing my first F&P with DCS, because I hated the black glass door on the new F&P, but it was going to be a $1400 upcharge. Why? They could only tell me it had a different door and the DCS name, which is their 'premium brand.' As far as I could tell, functionally, they were exactly the same. (DCS is another one you'll want to be sure to check for service in your area... as lack of available service for me is why I went away from F&P.)

Why I explained all that is because I think that places the DCS in a price range close to what I paid for my floor model (so discounted) Wolf. I did think the F&P oven performed very well, but the Wolf's dual convection system does better. If they're about the same price, or close, I'd go Wolf over DCS.


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

I think your decision to look at 2 separate ovens is a good one, not only due to reliability of single ovens vs dual, but also the "comparative ease" of pulling a single oven out of the wall, instead of a double oven. Added to that is the fact that if a main board blows (instead of the thermal protection device), both ovens are incapacitated---not a biggie in your case because of the ovens in the range.

There are just 2 of us here too, (always has been), and I find I use our speed oven more than the regular oven. You may want to "Bone Up" a little here on GW about Speed Oven posts, and since you are headed to an appliance store anyway, You may want to look at one? Sometimes when you just don't wanna spend a lotta time in the kitchen, (Maybe get in that soaking tub a lil earlier), a speed oven can fit the bill here.; Which one??? All 3, Miele, Elux or the Advantium all seem to be great appliances and could get you in that tub sooner than ya thought?

Another thing to think about---just what ya needed? (LOL).

Gary


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

See...there u go...another post that helps....speed oven and wine in the tub twice as fast! Yes, I will look at those too. When we did our upgrade 6 years ago, I don't think those were all that popular )new...maybe??). Seems like everyone likes the Advantium.....is there one manufacturer for many brands? Why pay for a vanity plate??

Thanks again Gary!


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

Gary, I didn't get a deal!! I wanted the Gaggenau, and I wanted the excellent service from my local store, so I paid the price increase, and dumped the idea of getting the Varios. I know you were being helpful! Just refuting some of the points that you found elsewhere. :) Michelle did ask about Gaggenau....

Michelle, most manufacturers have different appliances, or different marks at different price points. Sometimes, like a late '70's GM car, the Chevy and the Caddy just have some extra pretties on exactly the same thing. Others, have significant differences between different model levels. The most extreme example I can think of is between Gaggenau and Bosch ovens, both made by BSH. They're very different size, shape and quality. OTOH, the Bosch and Gaggenau dishwashers are nigh on identical, if memory serves right.

Advantium is a trademark of GE, and is sold as GE Profile or GE Monogram. Monogram is a separate line entirely, but shares the Advantium. The difference in Advantiums is in the power and size. There are compact models and large models, and there are 110V and 240V models. Mine is the largest 240V model, and I paid extra for the Monogram Pro because I didn't want the black control panel. As far as I know, a Profile Advantium of the same power is exactly the same as the Monogram one except for looks.

The Miele speed oven has a broiling element (though reportedly not as good as the broiler in a regular oven), and is said to bake well. The Advantium is the only one that uses halogen along with the convection heat and microwaves on speed mode. It is an excellent microwave. Gary just told us the other day one of the features of the Electrolux that sets it apart, but I forget. They're all well thought of by their owners, and they're all different.


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

Hey Plllog, can you tell me what you love about your gaggenau? Do you have everything gaggenau? or just the ovens? I was originally thinking Miele or Wolf, but am now thinking about gaggenau because of the plumbed steam oven as well as the reviews of miele on here with the temperature discrepancy. What was the price of the gaggenau compared to Miele and Wolf? Does the gaggenau ovens have anything feature wise like the Miele masterchef? This is something I think I would use daily.


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

Hi Panser1,
You asked Pillog, but perhaps I can provide some insight here too. I have a Gagg 27 in. oven and a 27 Gagg steam oven. I considered Miele, but I liked the plumbed drain on the Gagg. For me, the convenience of a plumbed drain was a huge plus, especially after I visited a house that had an unplumbed Miele and the owner said she hated it because it was always dripping on the floor. Maybe she was just sloppy, but I didn�t want to have to deal with more dripping than necessary. Another plus for Gagg are the variable steam settings. I�m still not sure I�m a skilled enough chef to benefit, but I like the idea of options in case I master my oven. Also, since one of the options 0% steam, I get the function of a second electric oven.

I also have a Miele Masterchef speed oven, and I like that a lot. I don�t have a separate microwave, so the speed oven functions as a microwave and a toaster oven in my kitchen. I�ve only speed cooked potatoes but it is pretty clear that my appliance is smarter than me. I love the settings telling me what to do, but I�m still trying to master my steaming before moving on to my speeding.
I�m happy with all of my oven choices, but I also got really good prices. I think that a the gag oven and steam oven are about $4,000 each, so I�d really have to think twice about it if I were paying full retail. I bought the older models of both the Gagg and Miele ovens, and I got the two gags for about $4,000 combined. The Miele speed oven was about $1,000 from a store going out of business.
A 27 in Miele will set you back about $4,000, steam about $3,000, and speed about $3,000. You can probably save $500 more if you don�t get the Masterchef functions. My pricing is now about 9 months off, but I recall that the Gagg was about $1,000-$1,500 more expensive than Miele 30 in. models. (There�s no longer a 27 in. option for Gagg.) Gagg and Miele are expensive, no doubt about it. Is it worth it? Was certainly worth it for me at a discounted price, but I�m not sure I would have paid full price for all three. Once I saw the Gagg ovens in person, I loved them, so if price had been a bigger issue, I think I would have chosen the Gagg electric and steam ovens, and I would have skipped the speed oven. Instead, I would have heated crispy things in an electric oven and re-heated other things in the steam oven, foregoing a microwave and toaster oven entirely.

The biggest downside to my purchase is getting used to the Gagg ovens is that they�re not as intuitive as most US appliances. You do have to learn what the symbols mean, and it isn�t always obvious. Also, if you have guests who are not familiar with the oven, they will be initially confused about how to turn it on and set the temperature. Maybe that�s not the case with the newer models, but the unfamiliar symbols have sometimes made my friends giggle.


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RE: Capital Maestro, DCS, Gaggenau or other oven?

Panzer, I have Gaggenau single convection oven and combi-steam oven, as well as a Gaggenau induction cooktop. Plus a small Wolf gas cooktop. My fridge and freezer are Miele, Advantium speed oven, Monogram warming drawer and DW, Marvel fridge drawers. Modern Aire hood.

I don't believe in going for a single brand. I like to chose what suits me best and panel everything that will stand still for it. :) (I.e., everything but the ovens, Advantium and cooktops.)

I don't know anything about current pricing. You can call any of the big retailers and get pricing info that may not be published on the 'net. Universal-akb has a good internet sales department who can help you with that. And I think AJMadison also carries all of these.

What I want most in an oven is control and accuracy. I also don't want gizmos to decide how the oven works, like rapid preheat, turns off when the door opens, uses preheat mode to regain temperature after you've opened the door and let out some heat, etc. Gaggenau let's you choose to have rapid preheat, but it's an option in the settings. I don't want any stinkin' computer thinking it knows how I want to cook better than I do, with all those features that I listed. That extends to the menu things on the MasterChef. I use them a little on the Advantium because it's so different than other kinds of cooking. So I LOVE my Gaggenau oven because it will do everything I want the way I want it. You can chose any combination of top or bottom heat, some with only the center on, with or without convection, broiler with or without, etc. It also has its own pizza stone with a special electric element which makes excellent crusts. It's only 12" wide, however, so if you want big pizzas/loaves you have to make them oblong. I can slow cook, dehydrate, souffle, multiple level cooking, broil small, roast big, and everything in between. It'll do anything I want, the way I want to do it.

The combi-steam is a marvel. It's the perfect toy for the rich and lazy. :) Some people do up a whole kitchen for the cost of the combi- and plumbing. I just saved up. :) One of the best features is "regenerate". If you have a plate of leftovers, like some sliced meat, potatoes, and veg, you can make it up and put it on the rack in regenerate mode and have it come out perfectly heated and with none of it gone all weird or overcooked.

I'm constantly learning new things I can do with it. My first tries at rice were horrible, even though it's dead easy on the stove. I'd given up when a friend was asking, so I gave it one more shot when I wasn't actually making a meal (used it later, reheated). Finally got it right. I found a formula, finally. Use 2/3 the amount of water suggested on the package. At least it worked for field picked organic brown rice. :) It's dead easy once you have that. Use the settings on the clue wheel and adjust the timing for the density of the rice. Dump the rice and water in the pan and flatten it out, put it in, set the timer and forget it. That makes it even easier than the boil and set aside method (though that can be programed into an induction cooktop with memory). My latest trick is the pseudo-braise. Choose a slow cooking temperature on 100% steam, perhaps with just a trickle of liquid in the pan if you just want the tender meat without the veg/sauce. Terrific!

There are recipes available for the combi-steam, but if you're used to slow cooking, braising, steaming and similar wet techniques, you can kind of moosh what you know together with the temperatures/steam settings/durations from the clue wheel, adjust for density and mass and kind of figure out how to do anything you want.

The plumbed is GREAT! I've been sick and really couldn't face cooking. I thought I could at least steam the green beans, which I had bought at a small store where they only had them in a package with the ends already cooked. That was just rinse, dump in pan, stick in combi-, dump in ice bath, dump in dish. The oven was hot and all so I did up the asparagus too. And the artichokes. Dead easy. Very little prep work. Yummy.

I'm sorry I don't have better answers for your direct questions, but I can enthusiastically recommend the Gaggenau ovens.


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