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catnpnw

Early Research: Blue Star, Le Cornue, Lacanache, Wolf, CC. Etc

catnpnw
12 years ago

My question is two part. I think 1 will help me narrow down 2.

Background: I'm building a new house in the next year or so. Meeting with an architect soon. Our budget allows for high end appliances, but I am looking at all price ranges if it suits my needs. We will have a young, growing family, and like to entertain a lot.

My cooking style: 95% of the time will be spent cooking for 2 adults and 3 kids, but with once or twice a month additional adults. And then the holidays, we might have up to 25 people. I love to bake, and want good, consistent temperature ovens. My husband likes to sear meat and heat water fast. ;) He is in love with Blue Star Salamander. I'd like to have it as a separate unit I can tuck away. I definitely want warming cupboards or drawers.

Personal Preferences: I love the look of the Le Cornue. My husband loves the cooktop of Blue Star.

1. What would be a good configuration for us? Cooktop, wall ovens, range? Range and wall ovens? Cooktop and wall ovens?

2. From my research on ovens, I've come up with this:

Blue Star: Love the flame type and the even distribution of heat. Think it looks okay. Husband loves. Not sure about the ovens. Seems that the customer service is terrible from older threads. Is this still true?

Le Cornue: Expensive, and for that kind of money, I'd want it to work perfectly. Want to know more about the gas and electric ovens and their purposes, but the website doesn't say much. Have seen complaints about oven temp fluctuations. Don't really understand how the French Plaque works, but I love the idea of having gas and electric on the cooktop and the warming cupboards. Have heard the customer service from PM is so-so.

Lacanache: Looks okay. Love the warming cupboards. What's the difference between a classic and traditional cooktop? Have heard the electric ovens take forever to heat up and are slow to cook. Seems they have great customer service.

Molteni: Is there only one oven? Do people do this and another wall unit? There seems to be a lack of burners, but lots of people on these boards recommend them.

Capital Culinairian: The worst website. Hard to understand. But seems to be highly recommended on here. Like the burners. Doesn't say anything about the ovens.

Wolf: Seems either you love or hate them. I hate the utilitarian look. Hard to simmer on?

Viking: Still horrible customer service? Same thoughts and complaints as the Wolf.

Electrlux: Before it became possible to look in other price ranges, I really had planned on these. I've heard they are great to bake in. Love the perfect turkey button. Love the technical aspect.

Also, I'm in the Pacific NW, so a trip to Lacanache and a store in Portland that carries every brand except CC is an easy possibility. I go to NYC every few months, and going to Boston to see the CC isn't out of the question either.

Any others I'm forgetting?

Thanks much.

Comments (25)

  • stooxie
    12 years ago

    My experience with Bluestar in reference to your points: ovens are fantastic, hold heat extremely well and are very accurate with temperature. Very spacious interior. All recent threads (starting about a year ago) show a complete turn around in Bluestar customer service for the better. Owner reports are extremely positive.

    Bluestar does have a very industrial look. Owners tend to like/want that (brilliant statement, I know :) ).

    -Stooxie

  • alexrander
    12 years ago

    As you have noted, the French and Italian ranges are the nicest looking, but usually have smaller ovens. And their more expensive lines cost tens of thousands of dollars-La Cornue 'Chateau" as an example). I've seen a multi-oven by Molteni as well- it was awesome looking and probably custom built.

    My recommendation would depend on how much stove top space you want and how important looks are. Because if you don't need a lot of real estate for pots, I would just get a 30" or 36" gas range (like Bluestar or C.C that have good real 'open' burners) and then an electric wall oven... Those gas ovens (esp. the Bluestar) are large enough for anything but takes some time to pre-heat. The wall oven(s) could be used for more day to day, or when you need drier heat.

    And by the way, the I.R. Broilers in the Bluestar ovens are as hot as the salamander.

    If you want more burners, or grill or griddle, then you either get a bigger range with 2 ovens and no wall oven, a range top or induction hob, and/or keep the wall oven(s) and have ovens coming out your ears.

    Figure out how much stove top real estate you want, and how many ovens you need, then juggle. If looks are important, go with one of the French ranges and add a wall oven(s).

    To please everyone you would need a French stove(with a warming oven?), a Bluestar or CC.range top, and maybe a wall oven or warming drawer.

  • deeageaux
    12 years ago

    French Ranges--If you don't love the look of a particular brand cross it off your list.That is a key reason to spend so much on a French range. French Tops/French Plaque/Solid Top you turn it on. If you want high heat you put the pot in the center.If you want lower temperature you move away from center.Outer ring for simmering.

    Molteni-Completely customizable. Powerful burners.You can get more burners if you like,induction hob,induction wok hob,griddle,grill,or fryer. Can get two oven ranges if you want. IMO,funtionally the best French range.

    Capital Culinarian Ovens- Worst feature vs best in class is the ez glide racks of the self-clean oven. Cooler temperature door than Wolf and much cooler than Bluestar. Available with motorized rotisserie that can roast a 15 turkey,and available with self-clean. Evenness of heat as good as any gas oven in class. 36" oven can hold full size commercial baking sheet while 30" can not.I heard unconfirmed rumor that dual fuel is coming for 2012.

    I would pass on Viking and Electrolux ranges.

    I would pass on Wolf range but consider seperate electric wall ovens.

    The cooktop/wall ovens vs gas range plus maybe an electric wall oven debate can only be answered by you. There are large numbers of serious cooks on both side of the debate. Depends on the size of your kitchen,the size and number of ovens you desire and your budget. We know your budget is high but you have not given a number. So harder to give accurate advice.

    I have purchased but not yet installed 36" self-clean Capital Culinarian and 24" Gaggenau electric wall oven.

  • sayde
    12 years ago

    The comments you see here tend to reflect the posters own choices and hence the decision processes and personal preferences of each writer.

    You should go and see anything that you are seriously considering in a live setting. I thought I wanted a Lacanche til I saw one. Then looked at Wolf and Blue Star, live. Went in thinking Wolf, left choosing Blue Star. My strongest recommendation is to check them out live.

    OK. I have a Blue Star so evaluate these comments from whence they come. I was really nervous about ordering the Blue Star because of the stories I had read here. But me experience has been really good -- I love the range, and customer service has been beyond excellent. Whatever problems they may have had, the combined impact of this site plus the introduction of competition have caused Blue Star to really clean up their act. Capitalism at its best.

    I nearly got scared off and considered the competition. But I really preferred everything about Blue Star -- the burners, the larger oven, the fact that you could get the gliding racks in the manual (not self clean oven), the true simmer burner, the choices of color, and the general appearance.

    Once again, check it out for yourself, in a live setting.

  • zeebee
    12 years ago

    Would add to measure out the size of the European ovens if that's a concern. I'm currently (hardly) cooking on a vintage range with two ovens, nicknamed Small and Smaller. Lacanche, Aga 6-4 and CornueFe made my initial cut for looks alone, but the size of the ovens put me off when my measuring tape and I compared them with what I have now. Many people do well on smaller ovens but consider if your regularly-used roasting and baking pans for your family of five are a comfortable fit for the Euro stoves.

    If I had the money, Molteni would be my dream range. (*sigh*)

  • Caddidaddy55
    12 years ago

    Ok, up front I have a CC. Cooktop or range you decide, Gas ovens are great for roasting meats etc. Electric are best for baking breads cookies etc. I have had only gas for years and really have no problems. There are 3 open burner ranges BlueStar, CC and American Range Preformer. The Preformer is available in only 30 and 36 inch widths and offers a grille or griddle an an option, they do not make a rangetop. The CC and BlueStar offer grille and griddle options as well as rangetops, and widths up to 60". The CC also has a wok burner option, but it takes as much real estate as 4 burners so most people just opt for the wok ring that replaces one grate when needed. BlueStar does not list it as an option, but I know at least 2 people on this site have gotten them to make one with a french top, I think Stooxie is one of them. All the burners are the same 23,000 BTU on the CC, while The BlueStar has a variety up to 22,000 BTU as well as a simmer burner, which I wish the CC had. If I went went with a rangetop I would go with the Bluestar. In the range BlueStar offers only manual clean while the CC offers self clean as well. The CC self clean also has a moterized rotissere in the large oven. Our old range was self clean and we never used the fearure, and I grill outdoors so I didn't need the rotissere. We went with the manual clean CC. The BlueStar has more usable oven space though the door does get warmer than the CC. Both are available in a number of color options. As far as wall ovens, the best are Wolf and Gagg. Little to no reports of the control boards burning up on the self clean cycle on the Wolf or Gagg, which is a common problem with other brands. There have been some reports of oven temp problems with the Gagg. Elux wall ovens do seem to be well regarded on this forum. I do not have wall ovens so I can't speak from experiance, but for myself I would choose the Wolf. Use the window at the bottom of the forum page as well as your web browser to research the brands you wish to persue. Oh yes, BlueStar customer service has definately taken a turn for the better in the last year. On a final note I heard about the duel fuel Capital too, but as far as I know it was for the Precision (sealed burner) line.

  • stooxie
    12 years ago

    Just FYI, the Frenchtop is a standard Bluestar catalog item:

    http://www.bluestarcooking.com/bluestar-product-free-standing-ranges-rnb-french-top.html

    -Stooxie

  • Caddidaddy55
    12 years ago

    Thanks, stooxie I guess I missed the listing.

  • dixiedarlin10
    12 years ago

    Over the holiday while visiting relatives, witnessed their new LaCornue in action. Nice looking range, but it ought to be for the astronomical price. Cooktop burners are very crowded. So take an 8 quart dutch oven, sauce pan and/or 11" saute pan and see how you cannot come close to centering the cookware on the grates. The ovens went unused, except for keeping things warm. The oven doors are difficult to open due to the silly knobs, work very stiffly, and slam easily. Their separate ordinary american style self cleaning wall ovens were used for the real baking and roasting.

  • sierrahh
    12 years ago

    We've had the BlueStar Rangetop installed for about two months now. DH does most of the cooking and loves the six burners. He may have a stockpot on the simmer burner making broth, another pot on low flame for risotto, a saute pan carmelizing onions ready to throw into the main large saute pan on another burner, another steaming veggies and then, grate removed, the wok directly on the heat on the sixth burner. He should have been a juggler in the circus!

    I am trying to subtly train him to use the highest heat to do the job, which is usually less than the highest heat possible. Even so, the flame never goes around and up the sides of even our smallest pan, which happens to be All-Clad.

    In another week the BBQ will be just outside the kitchen door on the patio (being poured tomorrow). At 6400 ft elev there will be several feet of snow on the ground for four to five months of the year, but since the patio is covered he plans to grill out there year round.

    The big smile on his face as he cooks is priceless.

    Yes, the rangetop is big and beefy, but I like the look. No text on the front, just an attractive metal square with logo, a blue star with flame shape in the middle. Eyes light up when friends see it for the first time and real cooks comment immediately on the continuous grates that allow sliding of pans from one burner to the next.

    My DH has had no complaints at all about this rangetop. He simply beams when he cooks on it.

    Having no experience with any of the other brands, I can't comment on them.

  • deeageaux
    12 years ago

    There have been some reports of oven temp problems with the Gagg.

    Where? I have not seen any.

    I saw a few here about Miele but not Gagg.

  • Caddidaddy55
    12 years ago

    Yes deeageaux, I went back and looked, you are correct that is why I suggested using the window at the bottom of the page for the OP to research whatever brands she wishes to persue. My bad ;

  • catnpnw
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thank you for all your help. You've answered a lot of questions and given me a lot to think about.

    I think the next plan is to go to the store in Portland, OR that carries a lot of the brands, the one in Seattle that has Capital Culinairian, and then the Lacanache north of Seattle.

    You definitely helped me sort out that functionality is more important than looks.

    The Molteni with two ovens is intriguing though. And maybe the CC dual fuel!

  • coz77
    12 years ago

    I'm also looking at all these ranges for my kitchen next year. I have a few questions/comments:

    Diva de Provence: a dealer told me that they stopped selling to retail due to some code changes? I haven't got a response from them related to this.

    La Cornue: Looks to be first class all the way but I've read they are not really in commercial kitchens. It seems that their Plaque is powered by 12.5k btu seems low compared to others. I think you can buy a custom made Bonnet for the same price so I'm not sure if this is the best value.

    Molteni: Seems like the resi unit is basically the same as the commercial line. It has very high power. Some have complained that the quality is down after Electrolux took them over?

    Bluestar: I was initially drawn to them by their Marcus S. line. I liked the french plaque and the high power burners. I think this line might be discontinued but they have other similar lines.

    I'm also confused about induction. I've read Nathan Myrhvold stating that induction is the only way to go for efficiency and control etc. He also said that a combi oven is the most versatile piece of equipment.

    If money was no object I guess I would get the custom Bonnet or Molteni but maybe my answer is a La Cornue rangetop only with a plaque and 22k burner, a side cooktek single induction burner, and a side regular or combi oven(not sure if this is available to residential).

    tough decisions

  • Caddidaddy55
    12 years ago

    cntnpaw, Capital currently makes no duel fuel ranges. It is rumored that they are working on one for the precision (sealed burner) line, but as you are off a year or two they may have a duel fuel CC by then. Maybe Wolf will wise up and come up with an open burner duel fuel range by then, but currently the duel fuel has sealed burners and the all gas has the semi sealed duel stacked burners. It has been rumored that Wolf will be going to all sealed burners, which would be a shame, but it is only a rumor and I can't verify that. I would not even consider the Capital Precision (sealed burner) line, the burner tops are so huge that the flames will go up the sides of most pans. You would be best off going with a CC or BlueStar range or rangetop, Honestly there is so little difference between them I would be happy with either, but even though I have a CC range, if I wanted a rangrtop I would for sure take the BlueStar for myself, the range is still a toss up. As you love to bake I would choose the Wolf or Gagg ovens or an oven and a speed oven, even better.

  • kmcg
    12 years ago

    I'm glad you're going to see the LaCanche. You might also check in at Sutter Home and Hearth in Seattle to see an AGA, as long as you're taking the grand tour of ranges :) Almvigs in Ravenna is another store that carries the more contemporary versions of the AGA, and some other French model whose name I can't recall.

    We just spent our first Thanksgiving with the tiniest LaCanche model (Cormatin, single oven), after about a decade with a 4-oven AGA. I really love them both, but for very different reasons. My husband is happier cooking on the LaCanche, as there's a perfect burner for every purpose (even though we don't use the 18k burner that often, it's nice to have). The electric oven seems to heat up quite normally, so no problem there. The single oven in our LaCanche was fine for a 20-pound turkey, but I was happy we had a backup wall oven to use for the second turkey and some side dishes.

    In the AGA, we would have found plenty of space to cook everything, despite the smaller oven size (which I think would be consistent with some of the multi-oven LaCanche models). With 4 ovens, it's hard to complain. The warming and simmering ovens are lovely! I miss the constant heat that warmed the house and made it easy to warm up food (I just bought my first microwave oven, having noticed after our move that we no longer have the AGA's infinite ability to warm things). The only drawback is that the hottest plate is not anywhere near as hot as an 18k LaCanche burner, so things like stirfry can be frustrating.

    Anyhow, I recommend both, and wish you luck in the search!

  • clinresga
    12 years ago

    We've had our Lacanche for three years now. My reaction to this original post: if you're debating a Blue Star versus a Lacanche, you need to spend more time thinking about what you want. Otherwise you are eternally comparing apples to oranges, and no, there is no correct answer as to whether apples are superior to oranges. And you're a LONG way from a decision if you're still contemplating induction!

    These choices are so different that you will never be able to "objectively" make a choice. How do you weight, for example, the gorgeous colors you can get a Lacanche in, versus the ultra low simmer capability of a Wolf? You can't. The time to do detailed brand to brand comparisons is AFTER you've make the basic decision of what you want (i.e. French range versus "commercial style" stainless steel gas versus Euro induction). Once you've done that, then you can do the Lacanche vs La Cornue or the Wolf versus Bluestar comparison.

    Having said that--the only way you'd get my Lacanche is to pry the knobs out of my cold dead hands. It is so totally cooler than the Wolfs and Vikings that every one of my "foodie" friends have.

  • coz77
    12 years ago

    Thanks clinresga good advice

  • spsvi
    12 years ago

    I currently have a 30" Bluestar with (4) 22k btu burners, a 60" Wolf DF and have had many others. I have no complaints about either of them, and they are both good to use. I personally enjoy the BS burners more than the Wolf (more powerful and even). While the BS oven is huge, I like the electric Wolf oven more. Where the BS is installed I also have a Wolf wall oven. The Wolf gets 90% of the work.

    I've just bought a Molteni for another project, and clinsrega offers great advice. It is helpful to choose not only overall look but overall cooking style too. The Molteni burners are amazing in how the flame contacts the pan. The look is amazing. The ovens are lined with cast iron so they retain heat better, but they are smaller than my BS oven in the "standard" versions- 21.25" wide, 12.2" high and 19.7" deep according to spec sheets. The custom ovens have the same width and height, but can be increased in depth to accommodate full size sheet pans (18"x26"). I recall something about the entry level Molteni (Le Petit Gastronome??) being more of an Electrolux product. Best of luck.

  • tyguy
    12 years ago

    >I currently have a 30" Bluestar with (4) 22k btu burners, a 60" Wolf DF and have had many others. I have no complaints about either of them, and they are both good to use. I personally enjoy the BS burners more than the Wolf (more powerful and even). While the BS oven is huge, I like the electric Wolf oven more. Where the BS is installed I also have a Wolf wall oven. The Wolf gets 90% of the work.

    Ok, first off, I want to be this guy(girl)!!!! (S)he has more high end ranges than I have toilet paper rolls!

    Second, I am glad (s)he stated that their 30" BS has four 22k burners. I say this, because I think it is very important for the people looking to purchase an open burner range with all the same size burners to realize that BS gives you this option. If you want superior simmering there is no question you would want the simmer burner, but if your simmering needs are met with the big burners on simmer or willing to use a simmer plate you can have it either way with BS.

  • MichelleDT
    12 years ago

    @tyguy,

    So, u could configure a BS with 5 22K and 1 simmer (8K?), if one wanted to? I am looking at a 60" (CC and BS at this point), 6 burner + grill and griddle.

    Cheers,

    M

  • tyguy
    12 years ago

    Michelle: Right on their website it states that you can trade off one burner size for another, however there is a charge for it, and the above Gardenwebbers post confirms that. Requiring you to go with the standard burner arrangment is one of the untruths circulating around here regarding BS. Personally I am thrilled with my standard burner arrangment on my 48", but it may not work as well for others. Please be clear tho, that you DO have a choice with BS. If I *had* to do away with one burner it would be my 15k and replace with another 22k, although the 15k I find to be a great all purpose burner. Hope that helps.

  • zalmark
    12 years ago

    First, I must say thank you to all who share their knowledge! I have learned so much...maybe too much.:)

    I too am in a quandary about appliances... researching my life away! I value your experience!

    Essentially everything we eat is made from scratch. My husband and I both enjoy cooking- he makes magic with a wok and anything in the fridge! I love to entertain and serve elegant meals that I know our guests would never put the effort into or enjoy making. My Italian heritage also requires that I make lots of comfort food-eg. BIG pots of "gravy", risotto etc! I can't imagine cooking with out the availability of "simmer". I host 5+ course sit down holiday dinners for 5-15 people. With that in mind, here's my situation:

    For a whole house remodel, I am deciding between a CC or BS range top. Probably 36" due to space issues. Either 6 burners or 4 w/grill. Here are my questions:

    1. Love the CC but am concerned about having only 22K BTUs and the simmer reviews.
    2. Love the BS but had ruled it out due to service issues. I am a rural 2 hrs drive from Reading PA. and initially thought BS proximity might be a plus. Just put them back in the running since I read their service has improved. Really?
    3.A bit of a clean freak, I vowed never to have a hood but have decided to deal with it in order to have the CC or BS range top. I read another thread to learn about cleaning a baffled hood like a Modern Aire. OK- I can do it - when I'm not cooking I'm cleaning so what the heck? BUT:
    With heavy cooking, how often must they be taken apart to clean the fan and degrease?
    Does the SS lining discolor after a year or more, or turn that "cooked grease brown" (like what happens on sealed burners). My 10 yr old Viking cooktop looks terrific but it takes time and elbow grease (especially post a DH cooking extravaganza!)I am wondering how painful it will be to keep it up to my standards.(sparkling clean and no odor)

    How does one keep the grill clean and free of gunk and greasy odor?

    Thanks in advance for your advice and for helping me set reasonable expectations. I am so afraid of making a very expensive mistake!

  • alexrander
    12 years ago

    I don't think you could go wrong with either of those brands. Grill and hood cleaning depend on how much greasy food you're cooking. Folks often line the inside of grills with aluminum foil to make cleaning easier. The grill itself cleans as you would expect, with a brush or scrub pad.

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