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Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through floor?
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Posted by frenchman (My Page) on Thu, Nov 19, 09 at 15:03
| Hi,
Bluestar recommends gas coming from the floor, or if not using a zero-clearance box. Is the box "worse?" I know it's $50 more or so and doesn't leave much room to move things around. But will it be worse than through the floor.
I am having hardwood installed everywhere before I put the cabinets in and it hurts my feeling ;-) to make a hole in those. At the same time, they'll be hidden under the stove, and I don't plan to redo THAT kitchen myself.
So: what is the best for my range and I? That's what I'll do, and if both are same I may consider the box.
Thanks!
YA
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Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| I put my gas line through my hardwood floor. I did it as Bluestar shows in their docs, but I kind of wish I hadn't. If I had it to do over again I think I would put the valve in the cabinet beside the stove and run the flex tube through the cabinet wall. As with your concerns, I was not thrilled about the idea of cutting holes in my expensive cabinets. I did cut a hole for the dishwasher water supply to come from under the sink and I've been glad to have the easy valve access that I got for it. With the gas line through the floor near the wall behind the range I worry about being able to get to it in the event of some issue with gas and fire. If you put the gas valve in a box even further back in the wall the access would be worse. I'd suggest that you bite the bullet and put the valve in an accessible location regardless of the holes you must cut. |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| My cabinets are all drawers... And while a valve in the crawl space is tempting maybe that's just not the right place for it? If so, I guess my floor will have a hole (or maybe we'll just do it before the floors and the floor will go around. Kind of the same, just whatever is convenient schedule-wise). So valve in crawl space = bad? (Entry to crawl space is at the other end of house, but if there is a leak, I think I'd have the time---not the inclination---) to go there. Or does the valve need to be at the very end of the non-flexible run? YA
YA |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| So valve in crawl space = bad? Generally against code. Generally you are required to have the shut-off "accessible" (behind the range ok) or "readily accessible" (generally in a cabinet next to the range) and either within the same room, within x feet, or both, of the appliance. Depending on your jurisdiction's code, there may be also restrictions on running flex gas connector through a wall or floor. Because of the flat back of the BlueStar, you really can't put things anywhere but in that 2-3" from the floor. Usually there is a 2x4 on the floor in the wall, chewing up 1 1/2" of that, so penetrations through the wall in the required area are very difficult to virtually impossible. I'm not a huge fan of upward facing outlets, due to dirt, fluid, and metallic object problems. A pedestal outlet is an option, but I'd suggest the cabinet next door, either inside or beneath, if you can. |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| Ah ha, was wondering. Our range has a 3 inch gap from its rear to the wall because of an existing gas valve that was not modified. The prior owner removed an old range and replaced with a Bluestar, but could not push it flush to the wall. What a pain. Why would they not leave more room along the bottom for gas piping? |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| fall, wish I knew -- installation funkiness is on my list of things that BlueStar really could improve on. If you plumb with 3/4" pipe, which you really should do, an elbow and a valve barely fit under the 2" recommendation. I guess the tradeoff would be a smaller oven cavity or a less powerful oven burner. Given that, I'll take a little more difficulty in installation. At least you only do that once, not every time you use the oven... |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| Alright... Floor it is. As I have said, cabs won't work. And yes we're doing a dedicated second 3/4" line from the meter. Should I wait until my floors are installed for the plumber to come for this, or does it not matter? I'm having hardwood installed to replace the !#(!Y#)! textured tile I have, and will add an inch or so of plywood on top to raise countertops to ~37". |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| OK, so I am having my Bluestar hooked up (finally) on Tuesday next. What is this about a dedicated line from the meter? Is that better than tapping off from exisiting gas plumbing? Also, I must tell plumber 3/4" pipe, right? Thanks! |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| The only dedicated line I think matters is electrical, not gas. As long as the upstream gas lines are big enough, the range doesn't care how it gets there. |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| Even a couple dozen feet of 1/2" in the run can cause starvation on a 4-burner "pro-style" range. The incremental cost of the pipe and fittings to run 3/4" should be on the order of tens of dollars. I'd recommend a 3/4" shutoff and then use the proper flare adapter to go to the "normal size" flex hose (as I recall, 5/8" was OK up to about a 3-4' length, and the 3/4" was typically only available in 24" or shorter) |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| BrassCraft CSSC is 5/8" OD, takes a 5/8" flare fitting, and is rated for 125,000 BTU/hr at 36" and 106,000 BTU at 48". The CSSB is 7/8" OD, takes a 7/8" flare fitting, and is rated over 170,000 BTU for any length under 72" -- It wasn't easy to find (box stores, my go-to plumbing supply shops) in any length over 24" for me. For a 4-burner w/oven, the CSSC (5/8" OD pipe) should be just fine at 48", as 22+22+15+11= 70kBTU on the top + 30kBTU in the oven = 100 kBTU/hr For gas pipe, 20' of 1/2" gas pipe, grand total distance to the meter, is rated at 118 kBTU/hr, 30' drops to 95 kBTU. Back when ranges were on the order of 60 kBTU, 1/2" was functional; those days are long gone, even with box store ranges. |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| 3/4" I am sure of. Dedicated line, maybe it's easier for the plumber in my home than locating the end of the current run of 3/4" and tapping off that. YA |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| A "dedicated line from the meter" isn't required, but sometimes may be easier. If sharing a line with other appliances, that line might then be undersized if you add 100-150 kBTU to it. Your plumber should be aware of current code and recommendations. This set of sizing requirements can provide some insight for you in the chance that he stares blankly at you when you ask the question. |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| Found it! Hubbel/Raco 6300 pedestal box. 
Not a Firefox-friendly site at all, if you try to browse their catalog. |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| Yes, what is the pedestal box for? YA - Who's thinking "zero clearance box again" |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| It could fit under the range or a cabinet next door. |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| Oh my this thread has got me worrying about the gas connections for my 30" RNB that is going in tomorrow. I can say for sure a dedicated line from the meter is NOT happening. Whatever line is coming from the meter, which looks to be about 3/4" (I will check with plumber) is feeding my furnace, hot water heater and gas dryer (each of those seems to have 1/2" pipe except the furnace has a thicker pipe, presumably 3/4"). Plumber is set to run some kind of non metal 3/4" to the range and I hope that is good enough. What will the symptoms be if the main line from the meter is not enough for all those appliances on the end? As for the shut-off, he seems to be proposing it be located in the basement at the point where he starts his new line. I presume the actual flex connector that goes to the range will have its own built in shut-off - yes/no? Thanks! |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| If you don't have enough line capacity, you'll start to see the "full" on the range not quite so full, when you have multiple burners/appliances running. The furnace or hot water heater could also "starve" if the range is cranking, but that is harder to notice. I'm not aware of "non-metal" being acceptable under the codes I'm familiar with for gas appliances. There may be products certified that I am not aware of. (Then again, San Francisco Code doesn't permit ABS DVW piping.) If your plumber is reputable, he'll be generally be using code-approved materials and practices for your jurisdiction. An additional shut-off valve isn't a bad thing. Generally code requires (at least) one in the same room, near the range, that is generally installed at or near the transition to the flex connector. I would talk with the plumber on the sizing question. |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| Thank you sfjeff. I mis-spoke about the line the plumber is installing - it is flexible stainless apparently. Then the flex hose to the range. So do you mean that if the supply is inadequate the oven will take a bit longer to heat up and the burners will be a bit cooler? If so, I can live with that I am sure. Also, if the furnace etc "starves", again, does that just mean longer heat up times? Thank you! |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| Assuming that the appliances aren't heavily starved, yes, you are likely to just have noticeably reduced output. You should expect that the heat is somewhat inconsistent with time as well -- as other appliances or the oven cycle on and off, the burner output will rise and sink. Even only modestly starved, you will likely find that the "low" setting goes out on you, with the tick-tick-tick of the igniters trying to keep it lit. Others have reported difficulty with keeping burners lit in this kind of situation, even when not on "low" settings. I don't know how the furnace or hot water heater will react. |
RE: Zero-clearance box in wall for Bluestar's gas, or through flo
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| Thank you! Well for now there is not going to be anything I can do about it. I'll just have to see how it goes but when I do the white glove check out I'll make sure no other gas appliances are running. Worst case scenario I'll have to go back and redo the gas line...In any case, with that range on full blast I don't see any need for a furnace :)! |
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