Please show me which Miele 24" fridge you are thinking of. Is it in the KFN97xx Series ?

There are no 24" Miele fridges on miele.com but there are on miele.ca

David

ShannonPlus2, we are two adults + 2 kids under 2 years old, and the 24" Liebherr is more than adequate for us. We live in a urban area, though, and we do shop just about every day. We don't stock up more than a few days in advance and don't keep leftovers around more than a few days (right now our fridge contains milk, fruit + vegetables, milk, a few bottles of wine, milk, condiments, yoghurt, and milk. Did I mention milk?

We do stock up on dry goods, though - so we opted to get a 24" fridge + 12" pantry rather than a 36" fridge. If our needs change, we can take out the pantry to make room for a bigger fridge.

GE is coming out with a 24" model in December. I hope this is becoming a trend. I don't think counters aren't big enough; I think they need to put more appliances on the market for urban/condo/apartment people. I'm really stymied. I have a galley kitchen and a 30" wide space for a fridge. None of the current models from the big guys out now are shallow enough so as to not hit the cabinet across. There's only one 30" French door model and it's so deep that not only will it use up all my floor space, I won't be able to get the freezer drawers open. There are no side-by-sides at this width.

Refrigerators used to be shallower. I think it was all that "people need space for gallon milk cartons in the door" stuff that created the new standard size.

I'm just venting. I don't understand why a standard 30" GE or Frigidaire is $700 but make it a bit shallower and you have a $2500 Liebherr or a $2000 Blomberg. I have not heard good things about Summit.

beccamj: I live in an urban condo and my galley kitchen is 7 feet wide and 8 feet deep. In July I completed a complete gut remodel. I got the 24" wide by 24" deep Fagor fridge, a 24" wide by 24" deep Bertazzoni gas range and an 18" GE dishwasher. I agree that American manufacturers are missing out on a large market. I love what I purchased, but figured I could have saved about $2500 had I bought standard sized appliances as opposed to compact. However, I wanted the counter space.

I'm with you, Joyce. Mine is 6x9 and I also wanted counter space, so I kept the fridge opening as it was. I keep thinking I should have gone to 36". But I think I'm happier with more counter space and a fridge that can't quite open fully!

I also got an 18" wide DW but the oven was one item I really wanted full size: I bake and I previously had a 20". I'm so excited to have a full-size!

I almost got the Fisher Paykel near counter depth fridge but it's 31" wide and also would have hit the counter across. And I can't recess because the intercom is on the other side of that wall.

Wow! I hope it will be worth waiting for. The GE 24" fridge. Tell me more. I'm ready to buy.

I agree there are now a million people living in downtown condos with galley kitchens. So we need more appliances for this urban condo and apartment market.

In my galley kitchen one of the two counters could have been made 26" deep or more. I just happen to have a 48" aisle so I could lose a couple inches and be fine. With a deeper counter, a deep fridge makes more sense.

But in a "hallway" passageway galley kitchen, it is ridiculous to use up floor space and visual space to put a deep deep fridge which sticks out by ten inches before you even open a door or pull on a drawer.

None of the current models from the big guys out now are shallow enough. I have seen an LG 30" French door fridge but it is so deep that it would look ridiculous, an obstacle in the passageway visible from every angle. I would be able to get the freezer drawer open without hitting the cabinet across... but we just don't want a monster deep fridge.

Side-by-sides at this width are useless because each part is too narrow to be practical at storing things; you are always hitting a wall when you put two medium sized things on one shelf.

I agree refrigerators used to be shallower and then one day the new standard just happened ...

I don't understand why a standard depth fridge is $X but make it a bit shallower and you have an expensive one. There is always at least $500 more to pay.

David

David, I'm jealous of your 48" aisle! Here is a picture of my fridge and where it hits (before the counter is installed even). I had measured wall to wall and it turns out my floors are sloped so with the tilt it works out slightly differently.

Not too bad closed, though!

And yes, the LG was the French door I was talking about. I was so hoping it would work, it looks so pretty, but it would just take up way too much floor space.

I'm linking below to the GE fridge. If you add it to your cart, you'll see it's not available until 12/6. There's a Blomberg just about the exact same size and I went to look at it yesterday at HD. It's just really too small for my needs, unfortunately.

I think I am stuck with the fridge I've got and if they ever release something affordable and the right size, I can change it out and sell it on Craigslist.

Here is a link that might be useful: GE 24

I bought the Summit shown in Harriet's link just about two years ago for the rental apartment in our house. I've had no problems with it. It seems to have more than enough space for 2 people, so it might work for 4.

One of the plastic guards for the door slots was loose and I had no trouble reaching customer service, they were very accomodating, and promptly sent me a replacement that fits tighter.

It's obviously not in the same league with Liebherr, Thermador, etc. Also, I'm pretty sure the fridge I have was made in Mexico. But given the price, I think it was definitely a good buy, and it's held up to two years' worth of short-term tenants.

beccamj, what bad things have you heard about Summit? It seems there are reports of bad things about ALL brands of refrigerators out there.

Scott, that's good to hear. We do a lot of cooking, but it's not an open-and-close-the-refrigerator-all-day-long kind of thing, most days. And we hardly ever buy a gallon jug of anything (certainly not milk).

Anyway, I figure if it's going to die after 5 or 6 years, we might as well spend less upfront.

I can't understand why shallower = more expensive. You'd think it would be LESS, or at least the same. I suppose it's because there isn't as much demand for them.

Yes, definitely good to hear, Scott.

Harriet, I have done so much Googling WRT the major "small" brands. I keep hoping some solution will present itself. The things I heard about Summit were that they are cheaply constructed and look cheap and that the company is not responsive when things go wrong. Again, these are just things I read when I was Googling, not anyone I actually knew, so please don't take it as gospel.

You can read some mixed reviews at the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Summit fridge reviews

beccamj, you would have to remove just one stud if you wanted to recess the LG French Door fridge into the wall. Worth considering. Also consider slimming one wall down to a panel thickness not a full wall.

beccamj, in your space you may have to settle on two separate small appliances, one a fridge, one a freezer. Not optimal in terms of energy but that is not the sole criteria. In my kitchen reno coming up I am planning on putting a freezer somewhere outside the kitchen, hidden or camouflaged somehow.

I have seen 4 sizes of Blomberg fridges, the largest being a 27" wide. Summit has a 27" too.

I have looked into ways to use a commercial fridge and a wide under counter fridge (the top of which would be the counter). Search on "salad top" or "sandwich top" amd you'll see 36" wide boxes that can be a counter WITH an opening to reach inside to get a dozen little things that you store at the top. This kind of thing might be a solution for you. I can tell you more about the various options from Fagor True ERL TurboAir Randell Victory ColdTech ATC Delfield BeverageAir Everest and so on...

Very happy to know someone else has been searching too.

David

David, my GC cut a hole in the wall behind it and explained to me why it couldn't be recessed. The wall isn't very thick to begin with and the intercom for our building is on the other side of it.

Unfortunately, the reno is mostly done so nothing else can be fit; I can't do an undercounter or anything like that. It has to fit into that 30" space or else I would have to ditch all those cabinets and get new ones, which I can't afford.

I did look into the Blomberg 27", it looked really good except it is $2200, which is over 4x what I paid for this one. Just not in the budget right now. And I am still leery of the Summit. I know, I probably shouldn't be but the things people say about the noise and the cheapness make me nervous. I'm not sure I'm willing to give up the quality I have just to get the door open a couple of inches wider. It's always a trade-off, isn't it?

I am thinking I will keep this one and hope something comes along in a few years.

I sure have been searching! :D I don't know if you saw the site I linked to, but it's obviously a concern for a lot of people. Wake up appliance makers!

becca, I had read that same AT thread about Summit, too. (I have done so much googling on all these brands that they are starting to run together.) I was wondering if the person with the milk bottles crashing off the shelves has slanted floors or needs to level the refrigerator.

Did you find anything else? That is the only really negative review I have come across.

From the Dept. of fractured English. Love it ... it's almost poetry.

"Summit professional bi-540 is a big, 24 in broad, under-counter integral refrigerator-freezer by the side of a 0 stage freezer. It includes a untarnished nerve frame up against tradition panels and a untainted nerve palm. It has ruined sides and top out against recessed or free-standing habituate. Finish: White locker, snowy house according to unstained nerve frame up and snowy top out. Finished snowy sides. Includes a 16 in long-winded untarnished nerve perpendicular palm. Etl. Approved. 100percent cfc loose. Energy prime mover, meets wholly female deer standards. Automatic de-ice icebox. Unique dual evaporator plan toward best temperature reduction. Manual de-ice 0 stage freezer. Fan cooled compressor. Reversible avenue swing over. Stainless nerve means of access frame up. Stainless nerve palm. Interior scant. Vegetable/fruit crisper. Adjustable shelves. Adjustable thermoregulator. Cold surround evaporator is secret slow the internal fence. Door storage. Tall bottleful storage. Shipping weighting: 90 lbs."

I know, me too! LOL.

There were a lot of people saying it was noisy as well. My kitchen opens into the DR/LR so it would be a problem. But it may be totally OK for you.

I honestly don't remember but if you've been Googling you've probably seen everything that I have. I think there was some stuff here too, but I'm sure you've read it.

My appliance guy (an old friend) recommended against it but he doesn't like anything outside the big name brands (doesn't even like LG), so I wouldn't totally go by that either.

I have found that extreme negative posts are usually coming from people with bad intentions because they are retailers who don't have a contract to sell that product or worse they have lost their contract because they abused the business relationship. So.... a person claiming to have slanted shelves sounds like that to me. Anyone an sign in and claim to be anyone. A big negative post with no corroboration is not a credible source.

I have seen Summit fridges and they all have flat level shelves. (!)

David

I don't know about that, David. When I have a negative experience with a product, I say so, and I am not a retailer. Still, you are right, no comment on a message board can be corroborated and yet, here we are on a message board asking other people for advice. :D

I would expect people with negative experiences are more likely to post them somewhere than people who are content with their purchase (i.e., the product performs as expected). If the comments are really out there, you do start to wonder. The person describing stuff sliding off the shelves and crashing to the floor was so odd, though, that I had to wonder if their floors are not level -- probably likely in an old NYC apartment. I have never seen a refrigerator that has a lip or safety guard or anything like that on the edge of each shelf -- they usually have a sort of rounded edge on front, correct?

Yeah, I'm not sure I would go with that particular comment. No one else said anything like that.

My contractor just called with info on a Summit that he thought would work for me. It's a bit too tall and the capacity is a little lower than I'd like but maybe it would work for you.

Here is a link that might be useful: Summit FFBF285SS

becca, thanks, but that's too tall for us also. We have a 72" or so high space, can have up to about 36" wide. We're getting the other model that's 15.9 cf. In fact, it's in transit as we type here.

I'll try to remember to post a picture after it's installed.

Funny, my space is also 72"! I'm glad you found one. Definitely post a picture and what you think of it.

I am still waiting to hear back if my appliance store will even take this one back. This may be all moot for me.

If money and space were no object, I would have loved one of the Big Chill Studio sized fridges!

www.bigchillfridge.com

yes, because we have a small kitchen, and the 24" wide Liebherr fridge/bottom freezer works great as a solution.We do cook alot and don't stockpile months of food in there.it is very quiet, and also looks great.

http://www.equatorappliance.com/products/ConServ_Refrigerator.asp
This one is back on the market under the ConServ name. I like the fact that it has no branding label. 8 cu.ft. fridge and 4 cu.ft. freezer

David, people seem to love that one. I think it's the same as this one from Home Depot? I attached the link at bottom.

Just to follow-up, I sold my too deep Frigidaire on Craigslist today and I ordered the Summit FFBF285SS (75 x 27.75 x 24). It's coming Monday. I'm happy with my decision!

Here is a link that might be useful: Vestfrost at Home Depot

I have the Vestfrost, identical to the one in the Home Depot ad- approx 24" wide and deep. I think it says 'Conserv' on it . It's been a great refrigerator and is also marketed by Summit-CP171 I think. Summit has several tall narrow refrigerators so it can get confusing. (They don't make everything they sell, sometimes they just re-badge with their name on it.

Anyway, the one I have is made in Denmark. (Imported by the other distributor-Equator).

It is not frost free in the freezer. In fact, the freezer has a separate compressor and is independent from the upper fridge. It rarely needs defrosting because it doesn't share the air and moisture with the fridge. Maybe once a year. You can keep the fridge part on while the freezer defrosts. It's quiet and doesn't use much electricity. The freezer goes very cold if you want to set it- I mean colder than any freezer I've ever owned.

The upper fridge part is pretty simple. It does have glass shelves. But no fans. The thermostat range seems warmer than some fridges I've had. That is, I can't accidentally,(or on purpose) make milk freeze. It is simple and reliable, but not as fancy as the Liebherr. I know Summit is selling some frost free models as well, but I don't know if they're made by Vestfrost, (in Denmark) or not. Someone told me they saw the 27" model somewhere, perhaps I'll take a look on my day off.

The model I ended up getting was made in Mexico and has "Twist-Air" on the front, though the tag inside says Summit.

Noise. A few people have mentioned the noise that Vestfrost 375, Summit CP-171 or Equator ConServ can make from time to time. In all the various threads where they have been mentioned, here and elsewhere.

Now that people signed in here have had it for a few years, who will describe the biggest noises it makes?

-David

I have a 24" ConServ and the compressors are fairly quiet. Sometimes I can hear a small click of a solenoid right before the compressor starts. Still quiet enough that most the time I don't notice it when it's running even if I'm in the kitchen.

There are two Equator ConServ fridges
CRF-1200-x -- White, Black or Stainless
CT-380-x -- White or Painted Steel

Both have two compressors. Good.
Both consume 1kWh day.
Both are quiet. I have seen them in operation.

The first one looks identical to Summit's CP171 and Home Depot's Vestfrost.
- concealed coils at the back
- full width door bins
- rated as a commercial unit
- uses R600a

The second one is almost the same. (I saw the CT-380-Z)
- exposed coils at the back
- several half width door bins
- fridge space is 1.5 inch taller
- veggie bins 2 inches deeper
- front door only slightly curved
- (not sure if it is rated commercial or residential)
- uses R134a

Alexr which one do you have?
David

you betcha

Hi david, Probably the first one with a stainless door, sides are silver, and it's maybe two years old- no exposed coils. At the time I bought it- it was model 375-S...??

It says 'conserv' on the top of the door. It is NOT the Ct-380- I'm thinking the CT 380 is a newer model (or import) and has a 'cycle defrost' freezer.. Mine does not have a cycle defrost freezer.

It's good that you can check them both out. I noticed Summit has several new models too, but I don't know the difference between them all- mine is similar to CP 171

Check out their FFBF24 models and a slightly wider FFBF280 and FFBF285 - I have no idea if these are made in Denmark or not.. might be interesting to call Summit- the CP 171 is a Vestfrost, like mine, but the other models could be anything.

Here is a link that might be useful: Summit fridges-scroll to bottom of page

The Conserv CT380ZS is a new 2008 model, made in China. It has a small "Conserv" emblem permanently fixed in the middle of the refrigerator door. It is the reason I went with the Summit CP171SS, no emblem marring the door and still made in Denmark. It is confusing with all the variations on these Vestfrost, Conserv, Equator and Summit models. I haven't unpacked the CP171 yet, but what I can see looks great. The delivery guy was impressed having never seen a refrigerator so tall and slim.

f.y.i. the sales person unpeeled the emblem from the CT-380 door without difficulty when I asked him if it was going to leave a mark.

They all seem good fridges. They have two compressors and I like this a lot.

We worry whether the 7.5 useable cubic feet of fridge space is going to be a frustration. We measured the interiors, multiplied the dimensions and divied by 172. We did this for others too like Fagor, Liebherr, LG and so on. Some manufacturers vastly overstate their internal volume.

For all these fridges I find it hard to get good information when I ask simple questions. Either it is slow to come, incomplete, confusing, contradictory to what another has said, or it makes no sense.

After asking questions by repeated emails I am beginning to get answers. Some of my information contradicts a little of the above two posts. (Stay tuned; More later.)

David

My information on the emblem on the CT380ZS was via email in response to my question about whether I could remove the emblem or not. They said it was permanently attached. In any case, I'm happy with the CP171, got it for a lower price than the CT380 and had all the features I wanted. I agree that differences we're talking about are minor and I'm glad there was a reasonable alternative to the much higher priced Liebherr.

Alexr, I have the Summit FFBF285 (I wrote about it earlier in this thread). It is made in Turkey by Arçelik who also own Blomberg.

Hi beccamj, I see that you ordered one about a month ago, so how's it working out? I guess it's 27 3/4" wide, and frost free. Happy so far?

I did a little computer search and:
1)Summit CP171
2)Conserv (Equator 375 and CRF 1200 are identical to
3)Vestfrost style "Solid"SZ model SW 380M (only for euro-electricity)
These models are all made in Denmark by Vestfrost. It is their simplest line, no frost free in the freezer.
http://www.vestfrost.com/default.aspx?Page=household&Group=23

I noticed they had two other fancier lines, have slightly different electronics, alarms, and are available with an optional frost free freezer or so it seems. The owner manuals can be found here as well. All their models are 24" wide...

The newer Summits, like beccamj bought are all frost free- and have a single compressor.

But that doesn't tell me anything about the new Equator 380..it doesn't look like any of the other ones. It does have 2 compressors and the freezer is not self defrosting.(according to the owner's manual I downloaded at Equator's website). And it appears that Equator is no longer marketing their 375 model. So maybe they found another manufacturer they liked better...who knows?

Hi Alexr,

The 380 on the Equator website is the same as Conserv CT380ZS that is made in China and is the new model for 2008. The owner manual downloaded from the Equator website is labeled Conserv.

Alrxr, I am really loving it. It is quiet (much more so than the Frigidaire I had mistakenly purchased just prior), cold, well laid out, has good looks, and fits so well. It is 1 cf less than the one I had had for years (a Hotpoint 28" that was shorter) but feels much more spacious.

I had originally looked at a Blomberg that had much the same measurements and was $1000 more. Now I know they were made in the same factory but that doesn't mean they are the same. Still, I am very happy with it.

The older Equator ConServ (CRF1200x) is just like the Summit CP171 and Vestfrost at Home Depot. Stainless or painted White or Black.

The new Equator ConServ is CT380x is painted White or Mud-Gray (like a warm stainless).

I'm still waiting for answers from Equator about being able to build it in. And about its lowest temperatures in the fridge and freezer.

I'm glad these fridges are available. They are mid range: not the lowest cost/quality, and not the highest cost but they are quiet and they have two compressors which enables more power to each compartment when needed. Freezing something large doesn't put the fridge out of commission. I saw in another manufacturer's manual a sentence saying that putting something large into the freezer could mean the fridge gets overly cold a bit later on, since the entire cooling system gets overworked and so it could freeze some of the fridge contents accidentally. This cannot happen in a two-compressor appliance.

David

In http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg0822321916417.html I explain why I am looking so hard at the technical side of these small fridges.

David

Here is a link that might be useful: Cheating the system: fridges

We have had our Summit (FF1625SS) for about a month. The freezer has never gotten to the correct temperature, even though we have had it on the coldest setting, and it seems like it has been freezing and then thawing a bit continually. Summit put us in touch with a local repair place, and the guy came out and said the compressor was failing. It seems strange to me because the refrigerator is working (though some things, like lettuce, have frozen on occasion), but bottom line is that Summit is going to send us new unit.

The size is just fine, but I would have preferred the freezer on the bottom and white instead of stainless.

Our electric usage is exactly the same as it was with our old fridge. :( But this one is much quieter, and it is nice not having such wide doors in our constrained space.

So -- mixed feelings about this purchase.

Please post an update after you've had the replacement for a while, to let us know if it's any better.

I've found an LG bottom freezer fridge the same size as the Conserv-Summit CP171, the Fagor, the Liebherr freestanding CS-1301, etc. The GR-389, not the GR-349 which is LRBP1031 in the US.

I like the fact that their PDF says they have placed waste heat behind the gaskets. This means I don't need to worry about enclosing around the door seals.

Also, its back is sealed coils, not exposed.

-david

I have the LG LRBP1031, but use it as a "kid fridge," not my main fridge (which is a Samsung). For the same footprint as fridge drawers, I can store a whole lot more. I'm very happy with it. My only complaint is that it is a bit tricky to store gallon jugs, unless you move two of the shelves very close together. Other tall items can go on the door. I love that the freezer section has drawers. It would be nice if it came in a true stainless finish (rather than titanium), but since I am using this for the kids' yogurt, fruit, and ice cream, it is probably good that it is an easy-clean, magnetic surface.

With the Samsung and the LG together, I have more space than a humungous all fridge/all freezer combo, in a better layout, I find.

Here's the LG. It is the perfect height for Ikea cabinets. Oops, I should have polished it a bit before the photo!

I've only seen the shorter L.G. - the 68" one. Morton your little fridge looks great, but how does the compressor work and release heat when it's blocked in like that?

It has an inch on top and 1/8 inch on side to vent.

Morton, which cabinet is that over the fridge?

It is a 30" wide x 24" tall x 24" deep fridge cab, cut down to 24" wide. The cabinet next to it is the 88" tall x 30" wide pantry with the drawers at the bottom. I mention this because even though it looks in the planner like the stiles on the tall upper doors will not align with a 24" door over the fridge, they do. The drawers at the bottom of the pantry are very, very, useful; they make that low space so much more accessible. This pantry set up holds so much more than my old carpentry pantry, plus I get the extra fridge.

Thanks, very helpful. I wondered why I couldn't figure out which cabinet it was. It looks very nice.