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New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

Posted by trepex (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 3, 12 at 13:55

Hi folks,

We are currently building a new home and trying to sort out appliances. In our current home we have the following:
- Miele 36" induction cooktop that we love
- KithenAid electric oven/microwave combo unit that is somewhat mediocre (especially the microwave)
- KitchenAid french door counter-depth fridge with internal water dispenser (love it)
- KitchenAid dishwasher (vanilla, but works well and seems quiet enough)

For the new home we have no space for a wall oven and I want to go gas. So initially we spec'd out an all-Viking kitchen with a 36" AG range (no self-clean), a Viking 10" hood, Viking fridge identical to our current KitchenAid (I guess Amana makes both), and the 301 series Viking dishwasher.

From what I've been reading, we're making a big mistake by going down this road with Viking, and we also really shouldn't be trying to just match all of our appliances to a brand... despite how happy my wife would be to have matching handles on everything.

So at this point I'm thinking of the following, instead:
- BlueStar 36" RCS366BCN from COSTCO
- Kobe Hood (maybe the CH-191, although I'd love a recommendation. I'm looking for nothing taller than 10" and our kitchen will have 12"-deep uppers

Now I need help for the fridge and dishwasher. I was looking at Thermador or Bosch dishwashers, and I'm still thinking we should stick with our fridge unless someone has a real reason not to. The fridge would be the Viking VCFF236.

Finally, am I going the right route with the BlueStar and Kobe? Growing up we had an open burner propane stove and that is what I learned to cook on. I have reservations about sealed burners, and so the BlueStar looks great. It's also $3200 at Costco compared to the $6200 pricetag on the Viking AG.

I really appreciate any advice - thanks!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

Freestanding Vikings are made in an old Whirlpool factory using old Whrilpool tooling. Essentially the Viking VCFF236 is the KitchenAid Pro Line Series KFCP22EXMP manufactured by Viking for ~$600 more. If you love the Viking handles,bins,or just like having a more prestigous name for $600 go for it.

Bosch is a fine DW. Thermador DW are rebadged mid-line Bosch DWers at a premium price. You are better off getting a Bosch 800 Plus than a Thermador. Better still is a Miele DW.

The Costco Canada Bluestar RCS range is a damn good value. It does not have the supernova 22k btu burner but excellent still.

Kobe hood is an excellent value as well. Deeper(24") is better than shallower and 6" wider than the range is better than getting the hood the same width.

Good Luck!


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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

Thanks deeageaux! Okay, I'll rethink the fridge. I'd love any recommendations for a frenchdoor, bottom freezer freestanding using. I just don't have the budget to go built-in.

For the dishwasher, okay that makes sense. We're debating throwing a panel on it to match our cabinets; I assume some of the Bosch units have this option like the Thermadors?

I can't get over what a good price the BS is. I did notice that I lose the 22k burner but I'll survive. And I figure with the open burners I'll be a lot better off that with the 15K/18.5K BTU sealed burners in the Viking.

I keep feeling as though I must be missing something though with respect to the BlueStar... it seems too good a deal to be true.


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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

The best fridge in the Viking VCFF236 class is the GE Cafe Series CFCP1NIZSS. GE does not have a very good reputation for fridges recently but this one is made by Samsung. JD Powers #1 fridge for FD 5 years straight. Second best would be KA mentioned above. Thrid choice would be Electrolux. They have four models CD without in-door water.

Just tell me how much is your dishwasher budget and I will give you a recommendaton.

You are not missing anything on BS Costco. Bluestar is dumping ranges in Canada to keep the factory at full capacity. They don't sell these here in the USA.


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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

Are there other counter-depth fridge options if we were to go for water on the outside instead? I looked through Samsung's options and they seem to have very few counter-depth models. I don't mind paying more for a really great counter-depth fridge, I just don't want to pay the premium for a built-in.

For the dishwasher I'd been looking in the $1500 range. I saw the Bosch 800 that you mentioned and it seemed pretty reasonable. I don't need a ridiculous number of features, but I also don't mind paying a few hundred more for a better unit, which is how I got from the $800-1000 units up to something more in the $1500 range. I'm starting to feel like I don't really care so much if it doesn't take panels either. The handles all seem similar enough between the Samsung and Bosch units that my wife things she might be fine with it.


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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

For a counter depth refrigerator, try Liebherr. They have a French door fridge with two freezer drawers below and we really like it. If you are not tall, it might be too tall for you. There's no water on the outside but that's something that tends to break a lot anyway.

The Liebherr is extremely quiet and beautifully designed.

You will love cooking on the Bluestar!

Billy


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PS RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

PS After considering Bosch and Miele we went with a higher end Kitchenaid dishwasher because they are larger on the inside, fitting more dishes than the Euro models, and it has a heated dry option. The higher end models have a good sound insulation package and are very quiet.


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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

The Miele Miele Futura Crystal Series G5175SCVI is panel ready and sells for $1399 in the USA.Miele Futura Classic Series G4275SCVi is also panel ready and sells for $1099 in the USA but I know prices are higher in Canada. The Classic lacks the water softner and that is a problem if your water has a hardness level above 4 gpg.

Every time I put a heavily soiled dish load into my Miele La Perla II and open the door after wash I am shocked We won the war.Serioiusly:)These are really great dishwashers.

If price for Miele is too high Bosch 800 Plus Series SHV7ER53UC is really the best of the rest that is definelty under $1500. Unlike Miele, Bosch does not have really strict price controls so you should be able to find a deal without too much searching.

The very best freestanding French Door IMO is Liebherr CS2062 but it is ~$5000. Counter-depth no ice. Really a top-notch food preservation unit. Great crispers and meat lockers. Gives you semi-clear high quality ice but not a lot of ice. About 2.5 12 oz glasses worth. If you are an ice-tea family or full glass of ice with soda at every meal type family the Liebherr will not give you enough ice. It can be supplemented with countertop clear ice maker($220) or built-in ($1500). About 3 years ago when it first came out the very first units had ice-maker reliability problems as well as door alignment issues. Fixed 2.5 years ago.The new ones are top notch in terms of reliabilty and effiency too.

Other than that you are looking at the mainstream brands.


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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

Heated dry waste energy and burns platic. There is simply a better way.There are times when there is a droplet on plastic or deep in a crevice of a dish but IMO that is not a big deal compared to the advantages.

Although American brand dishwashers may be marginally larger the Euros offer a more efficient layout, particularly with the use of the cuterly rack. You can simply place as much or more with better results. The one exception is if you prefer thick artisanal dishware like Heath Ceramics.These fit better in American brand racks.

Plus the durability of Miele is significantly better than Bosch. And the German made Bosch's durabilty is signigicantly better than American branded dishwashers.


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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

Although I have a high-end KA DW that has worked fine for us for three years, I have to agree with deeageaux on the Miele. If my dishes and extra large pans/servingware would have fit into the Miele - yes, I carried a large box full of the stuff I use most into the store to try loading capacity on different DWs - I would have bought it. But even the sales rep had to agree the KA racks fit my kitchenware better.

This was before Miele redesigned their tines earlier this year. When the KA dies, I intend to check out the Miele. It's a beautiful machine, built like a tank. The KA is very plastic-y. AND, it has gotten progressively noisier over time. It is definitely louder than it was when brand-new.


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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

Off topic but noteworthy.

"Bluestar is dumping ranges in Canada to keep the factory at full capacity. They don't sell these here in the USA."

How ironic, nervy, corporate and frustrating that the Bluestar "Made in the USA" products are selling their ranges at a premium price here in the US, but at an enviable price in Canada, just to keep their PA factory running full tilt.

Wouldn't Blue Star get a better reputation in America if they matched the price of Bluestar Canada here, and by making their product more amenable price-wise, find more American buyers to make up the difference and grow?

How un-American of Blue Star! What a palpable turnoff to their product.


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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

The higher-grade Kitchenaid dishwashers have cutlery racks too. They really are larger than the Euro dishwashers. I was fully prepared to buy a Miele until I compared it to the KA using our dishes. I have a lot of deep bowls from Asia and Miele doesn't like them...

I love the KA cutlery rack but DW doesn't so we took it out, which leaves even more room for dishes.

It doesn't feel plasticky at all and it's hard to tell when it's on. I think we have the KUDE70.

Billy


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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

I spent a long time comparing dishwashers today and concluded that as much as I'd love to go Miele or Bosch, they just won't fit our typical load. I too kept coming back to the KUDE60 and 70 models. We're perfectly happy with our cheaper KA model dishwasher right now so I feel comfortable enough going for it again I suppose.


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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

The Costco Bluestar and the Kobe hood are exactly what we purchased...been using them for about a month - awesome combo...amazing range and good, quiet fan. simple and high quality. You will enjoy them.
We went with a Miele DW and are very happy with it but beware the "extra$$" that come along with Miele....they deliver it...$70...they install it...$269...at the time they offered a 10 year warranty - great but only if they install it...so your $1500 DW quickly becomes 1840 before tax...ouch. despite that, I would buy it again...the miele seems to be the only appliance that has no discussion as to what is the best...Miele is tops.
caspian


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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

"Wouldn't Blue Star get a better reputation in America if they matched the price of Bluestar Canada here, and by making their product more amenable price-wise, find more American buyers to make up the difference and grow?"

You are responding to a comment made by some dude on the internet. Don't take the bait or, at the very least, do some independent research. If we all had a nickel for every product vendor that sold things cheaper in Canada. Start with Coca Cola.

Remember, Amazon adjusts prices INSIDE America based on what markets will pay. If Bluestar, or any company, chops all their prices then you are asking all their employees to take a pay cut. It is more complicated than that.

I will leave it there.

Good luck on the range search!

-Stooxie


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RE: New home (BlueStar, Kobe instead of Viking)

the comments about bluestar dumping in canada don't seem accurate to me. In fact, during my research, i could get an RCS in the US for about the same price as the costco RCS in Canada.
The real story is that most other dealers in Canada charge way too much and the Costco RCS is the only high end range with prices comparible to US vendors.
Caspian


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