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Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Posted by lrb500 (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 5, 11 at 0:29

Debating between Wolf, Blue Star, and Capital. Leaning toward BS but concerned about door heat given our 2 small children and dog. Has this issue been fixed with the most recent model? Can anyone who has the latest BS model please comment on this? Also, any compelling arguments for any of these three options are welcome.
Thanks.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

The most recent BS model ,the VI, can get its oven door upto 175 degrees with the oven set at 350 degrees for one hour.

Wolf ovens and induction cooktops are effective.

I would pass on Wolf gas cooktops and rangetops.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Come on, deeageaux, you're better than that. Why just repeat what you see on the competitor's reseller site? The reading of "175" wasn't even on the door, it was at the gap between the door and the kickplate.

lrb500, I think all the current Bluestar owners will tell you that the door gets warm but no one has reported any problems or burns. I have three kids (4 to 8) and a small dog and I haven't spent 2 seconds shooing them away from my oven aside from general bits of brilliance like "Hey, you know a range can be hot, right?"

As a point of reference a car dashboard can be upwards of 140 degrees in the summer yet people don't generally catch fire. A candle flame is upwards of 1,100 degrees F.

As for comments on all three? They are different. Bluestar is the most similar to a commercial industrial range in looks and operation IF that is what you prefer. The CC has a more residential look and can be had with a rotisserie and self clean. Some people want self clean others expressly do not. The Wolf is a sealed burner.

Beyond that, everything seems to be up for vigorous debate!

Feel free to email me on any specific Bluestar V1 questions.

-Stooxie


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Hey Stooxie - time to fess up - what is your relationship to Bluestar - are you an employee, dealer, etc? You accuse others of bias - but at least they're upfront about their professions and affiliations. Time for you to come clean!


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Stooxie,

The reading was from the bottom of the door where children and pets have access to.

The test from Eurostoves were done and e-published when they were the #1 Bluestar Dealer in the country.

You found them trustworthy enoght to buy from them right?

Or should I just repeat what BS chearleaders report?


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Irrespective of tests results the truth is.

From Hot to Cool

Bluestar.
Wolf.
Culinarian.

I am sure Stooxi would agree with the above IF he had ever used a Wolf or Culinarian.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

I have a Blue Star. Oven door gets pretty warm but I would not have ever considered it a problem -- except that some people here seem to think it is. Considered the other brands but seeing Blue Star live at a dealer clinched the decision for me. My advice is to see and touch whatever you're considering in a live display. If you can't get to see a live Blue Star anywhere at least watch the videos on their web site. Some of the spec differences among these choices are slicing the baloney pretty thin, in my opinion. You should base your decision on what looks and feels best to you, which one you want to cook on, and clean.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Hey, weissman. Dang it, you got me! I used to work for Sun Microsystems, now Oracle after the acquisition. My team is responsible for about $170 million in hardware sales a year, but I'm pretty sure ranges are not on the line card! Does that answer your question?

I'm just not rolling over for this garbage, plain and simple. The Culinarian creator/reseller and the people that own neither are all convinced the Bluestar is inferior in every way yet the Bluestar owners are, for the most part, happy as can be.

Go figure!!

-Stooxie


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Stooxie: I hear what you are saying, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "the people that own neither". I would say more like "some people". There certainly is an element of people or cheerleaders for the CC. We have to keep in mind tho, that BS is going to be the natural target as it is the established range that CC set its sights on trying to compete with.

There are plenty of people on here and elsewhere that do not have either and BS is still either in the running or even their number one choice at this time(such as the OP of this thread). The only "real" advantage a CC has for me personally is the available rotisserie.
Most of the performance advantages as sayde says is "cutting the boloney pretty thin".

When the CC first came out I actually thought to myself "hmmmm, wondor if it would be worth trading". And a large reason for this was the the rotisserie and the perception on here that Capitals customer service was so superior. Well, now that there actually are a number of capital owners on this forum we can clearly see that CS is not so spectacular as originally thought. In fact I would say over the past close to year now BS has a better track record on here with customer service. I will admit it is probably largly due to the competition from Capital, but whatever, we should give credit were it is due. Seems like BS will bend over backwards to accomodate now.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

I completely agree with your last paragraph, tyguy. Trevor helped a lot of people with their Bluestars, and now he's doing it for the CC. That's very nice and all, but it shouldn't have been necessary. It does seem like Bluestar has been stepping up their game lately, and I suspect that the new competition played more than a small part in that change.

It'll be a nice day when we can choose this type of range based on aesthics and our own perception of performance and not have to worry too much about customer service, reliability, or who Trevor happens to be backing at the moment.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Foodonastump: my thoughts exactely. I do think that time has arrived. I think the power of the internet has helped a lot. We the consumers have won this particular battle IMO.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

I received my BS just recently and am really happy with it. Due to the comments about the door temp I was slightly concerned, but assumed the real feel temp was a non-issue. Just for the heck of it, I've felt all around the stove to see where it feels truly HOT to me, and under the stove felt the hottest. Of course, I was just feeling there because I was trying to find a hot spot, and wouldn't normally be reaching under the range. I've got two small kids and a dog, and no concerns about the stove. Of course, I've also got a soapstone wood burner and have no concerns about it either...the top of it reaches 500 - 600 degrees and isn't a problem unless you firmly plant your hand on it.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

This is a bit off topic, but my initial thought was the same as transy416 - I've got a range (neither BS nor CC...yet) at one end of my kitchen, and at the other end is a soapstone wood stove that reaches 500-600 degrees. I have 5 kids, 4 dogs and 3 cats, and during the winter, they all hang around the stove, not the range. No one has been burned yet, but my oldest did have the bottom of his slippers start melting after sitting with his feet to close to the door for too long.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

The question isn't which of the three is the hottest. The question is which of three is a problem and it seems like none is.

More people here than just me reporting being quite fine with the Bluestar oven door.

-Stooxie


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

I think it gets really hot - hot enough to where I'd think twice about buying one again. The combination of the oven and griddle (for instance) was hot enough to melt the white silicon/plastic/whatever caulk stuff along the ball bearing track of the pull-out cleaning tray. Can I tell you how long it took to figure out why the tray would no longer open and then clean up the mess once I figured it out? (It dripped through the oven and bonded with the floor tile.) The tray on the right is fine - it's over the small oven and under burners.

Granted, the caulk isn't a stove door issue, but it is (imho) an uncontrolled heat issue. (And no, BlueStar was not even remotely helpful in dealing with it. It took several attempts to even get someone to talk to us and their advice was basically to pull harder. We weren't even able to get a call back after that.)

I like the stove, but the whole thing left me with a bad taste in my mouth. If you're not completely in love with open, cast-iron burners (which sadly, I am) I'd get a different stove and oven heat is part of the reason.

I don't use the oven at all in the summer, I warn guests when I'm baking, and constantly remind my kids not to touch it. Granted, lots of people train their kids not to touch wood stoves, but a) my daughter is high-functioning autistic and doesn't perceive temperature properly and b) I don't think I should have to perpetually warn people not to touch a kitchen oven.

If you have a cruiser who might put their weight on the oven door and not be able to pull back quickly enough or a diabetic family member who can't perceive heat properly they will probably burn themselves. It's just that much hotter than a standard oven, especially if you're using the broiler and/or griddle as well as a hot oven.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Thank you bibliomom. That was really useful. Much more useful than all of the crazy drama that I did not realize I was stirring up by asking this question.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

My pull out drip tray has no caulk. It rides on a sealed bearing. If the bearing seized, it would just slide out instead of roll out. No drama at all.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

I've had my oven on for about 2 hours now at 350 degrees. This is a V1 with the latest oven door. I took a video showing the temperatures I could scan with my Fluke 62 IR thermometer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55480023@N04/6335163911/

I put my hand on all points as well and didn't feel any big differences, i.e. thermometer read 120 but it was 200.

Believe it if you want, or don't.

-Stooxie


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

An IR thermometer is grossly inaccurate on metal surfaces if you don't calibrate the emissivity appropriately (and questionable even if you do). The Fluke 62 has no way to set the emissivity correctly for unpainted metal surfaces, so it's certain that the readings in your video are near-worthless. You'd need to use a surface thermocouple to do the job properly.

That said, the fact you didn't burn your hand is what counts.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Hi Peter,

I knew that was coming... Here's an excerpt from the Fluke 62 spec page:

"Emissivity. Of the kinds of energy - reflected, transmitted and emitted - emanating from an object, only emitted infrared energy indicates the object's surface temperature. Transmitted and reflected energy do not. When IR thermometers measure surface temperatures, they sense all three kinds of energy. Therefore, they have to be adjusted to read emitted energy only. The Fluke 62 Mini Infrared Thermometer has a fixed, pre-set emissivity of 0.95, which is the emissivity value for most organic materials as well as painted or oxidized surfaces."

Since my range is powder coated does that count as painted? The page goes on to say:

"To accurately measure the surface temperature of a shiny object, cover the target surface with masking tape or flat black paint and allow enough time for the tape or paint to reach the temperature of the material underneath."

So I just did that and.... it read within a half a degree for both!

Come on, Peter, dig deep. Tell me how this is all "worthless."

-Stooxie


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

No, I don't see how it could be a problem, not if mine is representative of current construction. Our Bluestar is a 2011 model RNB (installed in early April -- manufactured a couple of weeks earlier I reckon). The oven door gets warm, to be sure, but not hot -- certainly not hot enough to be a worry. I've put my hand flat on the oven door and it's fine. Baking bread. Braising brisket. I don't worry about it.

We have three kids (two in elementary school) and a small dog. My only worry with the dog is that he gets underfoot when I'm trying to check on whatever it is I have in the oven. Rather hard for me to imagine he'd be less curious if we swapped the range out for a different brand.

I don't know what generation door bibliomom has, but I don't believe my oven door gets hot enough to burn anybody -- small child, kitten, errant guest. I don't see the need for any special care. Hot pans or pots on the burners -- sure, kids need to know to take care, as they do with any range, but I don't worry about the door.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

I have a 12 year old Hotpoint range with a door that's as cool as a cucumber when I have the oven cranked up to 550.

Why should any appliance that costs a fortune have so many issues with maintenance, hot doors, plugged valves, ill-fitting grates and knobs, sharp edges, stuck racks, sputtering flames, or all the other complaints I've read here in the last 5 years?

A 5K stove should at least come with a cabana boy who does all the cooking.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Glenna

Sure, that makes sense. One spends a bunch of money, the product ought to work.

On the other hand, nobody turns out ranges with perfect, zero issue, quality control. If you look at survey findings from Consumer Reports, you'll see quite a spread of service problems across brands, but you won't see any flawless marks. One might take issue with CS on all sorts of things when they do qualitative reviews, but on basic survey instruments they ought to be fairly reliable, and they do seem to focus on adequate samples (and to report when results or point differences are not significant). When you look at smaller production lines -- Capital, BlueStar, some of the French ranges, etc. -- they simply don't have any numbers to offer. So do 3% of consumers have significant problems? 6 percent? 12? Sampling posts on Gardenweb -- or other sites -- can be informative in all sorts of ways, but it won't answer such basic questions. It's reasonable to suspect that you'll find a few boosters for each brand/model, and clusters of complaints as well. It's not reasonable to expect that the number or frequency of complaints, or the ratio of praise to complaint in a thread (or few) tells you much of anything about the 3 percent vs 12 percent failure question. So, really, that's a shame for those consumers who would like meaningful numbers, and one response is just to walk away, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that these products are less reliable than a given generation hotpoint range, or current GE, or Wolf.

My one (just one, just an anecdote, not a data point) experience with BlueStar is seven months with no problems. Daily use, no failures, no service calls, all is well. I know three other people (actually know, names, faces, etc., not just handles and email addresses) with BlueStar products -- one, a local friend who just bought a top after seeing my range; two with ranges they've had four or five years. When people say that the plural form of "anecdote" is data, they're joking. Of the folks I know, one had a small problem early on, and he reports that it was remedied promptly by the manufacturer - no further problems in more than four years. But that's just a small cluster of ad hoc stories from people I happen to know and you don't.

There may be an added wrinkle to the "hot" door issue. That is, they may not have seen it as a design or manufacturing issue to begin with. They'd been making restaurant ranges for a long time. They started making restaurant-ISH home ranges -- for a while, it seems, with more heat and less insulation than many home cooks were used to, or wanted. They've gone on to make them more home-user friendly, based on consumer feedback, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they botched it before.

I'm not saying that folks have not had problems -- some have, surely. Maybe I'll have some too in a year or two or five, I really don't know. So far so good. On the particular question of door heat on the current model, I can only tell you that I don't see how anybody, including a stumbling child, could get burnt on mine. You should be able to confirm this at a dealer, in person.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Stooxie: "I knew that was coming"

If you "knew that was coming", it means you must have intentionally left out the fact that your range is powder-coated in the hope that someone would post what I did, thus giving you the opportunity to put someone down (I suspect your intended victim was Trevor).

Just to remind you, I own neither a BS nor a CC, and I am still actively considering both. I frequently post corrections to what I perceive to be technical inaccuracies on these forums (because they are rife with pseudo-science and related misinformation). In this case, I was right abut the technical aspect (my post clearly said "unpainted metal"), but failed to double-check whether your range was indeed unpainted. You could have pointed that out politely, but instead you had to "punish" me by jeering and goading.

What beats me is why people like you take such pleasure in trolling/points-scoring - making people despise me is not one of my ambitions, but you sure come across like it's one of yours.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Sorry PeterH2, but I can't resist--

Stooxie's range is BLUE,---------seems like it would be fairly obvious from watching the video that it is not "unpainted metal."


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

willoughbyinCT: Thanks, bud, I just don't get how I'm hiding something here.

Peter: Trying to get people not like me? Read your own post, you are the one claiming the test is "worthless" when it seems you may not have even looked at it.

I'm just trying to provide another source of information for people who are clearly wondering about the temperature of a Bluestar oven door. I do believe that is the topic of this thread!!

That's all. There doesn't have to be a conspiracy behind it.

Enjoy!

-Stooxie


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Stooxie, I think your test was valuable. and since you also touched the door surface with your hand without getting burned, it essentially confirmed your readings. Anyway, you showed your work and I think the results should reassure anyone interested in a V1 Bluestar but worried about incinerating toddlers on cookie day. Thanks for posting the vid.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Stooxie, I noticed how much the temp dropped when you scanned across the Bluestar badge. This to me shows that the temp from the powdecoated door is accurate. I have seen pictures of your range on other threads and would like to say, nice looking range.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Hi Caddidaddy,

Thanks for the kind words.

BTW, djg1, that was probably one of the best posts I've seen on this board, or maybe on any board.

-Stooxie


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Stooxie, see PeterH2's last post about chipping grates on the BlueStar. Do you think he's really looking, or just using this for another opportunity to bash BlueStar? After all he could just use the browser window at the bottom of the page instead of starting a new thread. I own a CC myself and I just want to say if BlueStar had only resolved the few issues they had a couple of months sooner, I may very well bought the BlueStar. Really like the BlueStar oven better, oh well not gunna bash either one, as they are so similar. And if anyone has the new American Range open burner range I would like to hear what they think of it.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

"Do you think he's really looking, or just using this for another opportunity to bash BlueStar?"

Caddidaddy - please find me one place in these forums where I "bash" BlueStar's products. If anything, I think I have been more negative about CC than BS.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Well, the fact that you tried to accuse stooxie of hiding something for one.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Do I think PeterH2 is trying to bash Bluestar? Not at all.

He is not the first to suggest, though, that if I am using an IR thermometer to measure surface temperature than I might as well be using ESP from the other side of town.

I just maintain that it's a fair test and if there is any inaccuracy it's on the order of 10% or so, but certainly not "wildly" inaccurate. I did the masking tape test and the results were the same.

Nothing personal, here, honest!

-Stooxie


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Stooxie, once I caught up with the fact that your range is painted, I agree 100% that the IR thermometer is an adequate tool for the job and your readings are valid. That said, I think the "hand test" is the more important one anyhow. Running your fingertips over the oven is how I would do it, because it's quick and easy to get 100% coverage that way; I'd only break out the IR if I found a hot spot.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Peter,

No worries, man! Like I said, it's not you, this very same topic was hashed out before and my use of the Fluke 62 was waived off as if I'd used a flippin cucumber to check the temperature.

-Stooxie


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

We wouldn't believe Stooxie's hands, they are biased towards Bluestar and couldn't possibly blister objectively.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Sorry PeterH2, guess I read it wrong. As long as you are still trying to decide. I opened the oven door on the CC and touched the top edge after baking at 425 deg. and it was just slightly warm. The panel fan does not run at all unless you use convection then it cycles on and off. The trade off for this is less oven capacity. The heat thing Is not really that much of a concern to me. The problems with the door hinges and the ignitors was. Now that those are largely resolved, and yes to answer your other post there were some issues with the grates, but BlueStar is replacing them as needed, I think I would trade the cooler door for more oven capacity. I had to order a simmer plate for the CC so I think I would want that simmer burner on the BlueStar too. I think the kickplate on the CC is ugly too.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

I cook a ton and love my Blue star. I didn't notice the door gets hot until I saw this thread by accident. It gets hot - especially at the bottom - but not scorching hot. 2 dogs and 2 little kids - I never noticed - although I routinely keep them away from the oven when on as a rule.

I have had my range for 3+ years now. I had a bad igniter - replaced for free and I installed in 5 minutes. I had the door sticking (didnt know that was an issue until I googled it). They replaced it for free - that took me all of 2 minutes - and it's fine.

I have not had problems getting through to service although I guess ymmv. I would buy one again in a heartbeat.

I really like mine - but of course my opinion and a token will get you on the subway.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Hopefully this question won't prompt someone crawling under their range with an atomic thermostatic radiant heat detector to prove they can measure temperatures within 1,000,000th of a degree inside the arctic circle...

I'm at the same point in my selection process for a new range in a kitchen remodel. I'm leaning toward a Blue Star 36" RNB with Griddle. We have solid oak floors in our kitchen, If you are a Blue Star owner, do you see an issue with this? I you have wood floors, have you had an issue?

Has anyone taken any measures to insulate the range from surrounding services (wood floor, cherry cabinets, etc.)? if so, what measures were taken?


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Hi MiikeinVA,

I have oak hardwood floors under my range and since my CSST gas connector runs under there a bit I have felt around for heat. I don't feel much heat under there at all. The fact that the range stands about 4" off the ground means no heat can be trapped there anyway.

Regarding insulation from surrounding surfaces, it is not necessary, the specs say 0" clearance to surrounding cabinets. This is a residential range and would never be for sale in such a setting if it required all sorts of clearances or got enough enough to ignite something around it.

Interestingly enough I have cherry cabinets, too.

-Stooxie


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

MiikeinVA: I also have wood flooring under my 48" BS, however they have only been there for a year. I also designed the cabinets with VERY close tolerances ( about 3/16" on each side) to the painted (lacquered) maple cabinetry and no issues yet. I would also assume white painted cabinets would be more vulnerable to any form of heat discoloration than stained cherry. I think you will be fine.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Like many here I have the Breville Smart Oven, the larger one, and find it an excellent product. Amazingly, though, people don't complain about its door! Maybe because the manual warns you that it's crazy hot.

You grab the handle normally and if you have a finger at all out of place you get a nice ouchie!

I just made some toast and for kicks I did some measuring. 150 degrees directly behind the handle, 195 degrees on the top just above the handle.

Maybe that could put this all in some perspective.

-Stooxie


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Not to be argumentative, but a toaster oven is totally different. That's more like a hot pan. Plus you can push it toward the back of the counter out of the way. Just another perspective.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

jscout,

If that's your take, that's cool! I just think it's funny that with the Bluestar people talk about running a hand all all over it, basically trying to find a way to get burned yet this toaster, that everyone loves (including myself) will give you a good scald right behind the handle.

Just a bit of irony I thought I'd point out. Mountains and mole hills.

-Stooxie


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

I see where you are coming from stooxie, but I'm thinking, as jscout says, it is because it is a lot easier to keep children and pets away from a countertop appliance.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Folks any new thoughts on this? I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a BS. I've had a crappy GE Gas oven for years. Is this really so different?
Many thanks for any thoughts.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Just realized my post wasn't very clear yikes!
What I meant was that I've been using a Gas oven which is a GE for a decade. Is the BS so different from other Gas Oven's that it heats substantially more or differently?
Mostly just want to know subjectively from folks living with a BS if they have any issue with Oven door temp.
Many thanks and hope this post is clearer.;-)


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

Nothing new to add, I have an older model and it's never been noticed or a problem. My experience is very much like what "shacke" wrote above on Jan 4th. Maybe some newer owners will reply.


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

I recently got a 30" RNB BlueStar and I am seriously in love. Baking is a dream, the oven heats up quite fast, and the super responsive burners are just amazing. Got my big ass water canner to a full boil in 22 minutes when I canned a few dozen quarts of pickled veggies. My old GEs gas took well over an hour to get that water going.I do not find the door hot at all and I am pleasantly surprised at how quiet the convection fan is. LOVE LOVE LOVE


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RE: Is door heat still a problem on the Blue Star?

I have owned a Blue Star 30 in range for two months. I cook 5 to 6 nights a week and use the oven 4 to 5 of those nights. To me it is a non-issue. I do not notice any unusual high temps with the oven door or the bottom kick panel. The bottom kick panel gets a little warm but is not unsafe or dangerously hot. Very impressed with Blus Star.


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