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New Capital Culinarian Burners

billy_g
9 years ago

After owning a Capital Culinarian 48 inch rangetop with six burners and a grill for three years, I decided to buy the new redesigned burners. Don't expect them to give them to you for free! They cost about $75 per burner.

Capital redesigned both the burner bottom and the top burner cap, and the pair make one burner. Let's take a look at what they changed.

This is the bottom view of the new burner body. The new burner is on the left -- note the integrated ignitor holder in the cast iron compared to the sheet metal ignitor bracket on the right.

This is a closeup of the bottom of the new burner base.

This is a closeup of the bottom of the old burner base.

This is a closeup of the top of the new burner base. I love how the spark ignitor holder was cast into the base, leaving the center of the burner open.

This is a closeup of the top of the old burner base. The sheet metal bracket for the spark ignitor blocks the center of the open burner (making it less "open") and catching all kinds of crud. It is very difficult to clean, as you can see.

Note how the new burner base on the right is taller than the old burner base on the left.

To compensate, note that the new burner cap on the right is shorter than the old burner cap on the left.

Billy

Comments (38)

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Below is the top of the new burner assembly on the left and the old burner assembly on the right.

    Below is a closeup of the old one with the sheet metal spark ignitor bracket and below it the new one with the bracket cast into the burner base, leaving the center of the open burner "open" as it should be.

    Below is a view of the insides of the old burner cap on the left and new burner cap on the right.

    That new burner cap sure is shiny, isn't it? Do you notice below how deeply the straight line is cut in the new burner? This line brings the flame from the inner circle of jets to the middle and outer circles of jets. I wonder it it has another purpose as well?

    This straight line cut in the new burner cap is much larger and deeper than in the old burner cap. This probably makes it more efficient than the old one in terms of keeping the jets lit in all three rings of jets, but I also wonder if somehow it allows affects the simmer in some way? I'll explain in the next post.

    Billy

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    New Burner versus Old Burner on Simmer (25K burners)

    This is a cool photo below, with the old burner on the right and the new burner on the left, both on simmer.

    There are a few things to notice in this photo. The first is that the center ring of jets in the new burner is not lit in simmer, while all three rings are lit in the old burner on simmer. I don't know if this is by design or if this is just a coincidence. I need to test the burners more to find out if this is a fluke.

    Assuming that this is an intentional design (which would be very "cool" compared with the hot simmer on the old burners), how did they do this?

    First, it seems like the inner ring of jets is higher in the new cap and somewhat lower in the old cap. Perhaps this starves the middle ring of jets of their gas supply so they go out? Or perhaps the deeper straight line cut bringing the flame from the inner ring to the middle ring to the outer ring drains enough gas to help starve the middle ring of jets, but I'm not sure it could operate this way.

    EDIT: I went back and tested the other burners and this is just a fluke. I couldn't get the center ring of jets to extinguish on simmer. That would have been cool though!

    Billy

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    It is great to get rid of the kludge ignitor bracket and have the new burners open in the center. See below.

    This is the new simmer burner with only the inner ring of gas ports. It works great, just like the one I made.

    I forgot to mention that one of elements of the new burner design is the larger gas port to heat the spark ignitor and thereby reduce the clicking.

    Billy

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    About that shiny burner cap.

    .

    .

    Why is it so shiny? Cast iron is usually not that shiny? And I could see that the burner jets were drilled in the new cap but it looks like in the old burner cap the gas ports are cast in place.

    I grabbed a magnet and it doesn't stick to the new burner cap. I think the new burner caps are made of aluminum, not cast iron. Hopefully they won't warp or melt, but time will tell.

    In the meantime Capital cannot say that their burner assembly is cast iron. The base is cast iron but the burner cap is aluminum. This is also belied by the smooth painted surface of the new burner caps compared to the rough surface of the old cast iron burner caps.

    Billy

  • barryv_gw
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the detailed photos. Have you noticed any difference in performance yet?

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Barry,

    I haven't noticed any difference in performance on the high end. It looks like the same number of gas ports, same orifice, same basic shape, so I doubt there would be a difference in performance.

    On the low end it looks like the simmer performance is better, probably because the gas port near the ignitor is larger, allowing the ignitor to avoid clicking in low gas situations. Of course it will click if you turn down the gas really low, like any burner, because that's what it is supposed to do -- ignite the gas when it senses the flame has gone out.

    The fact that the center of the burner is now more open means it will perform better as an "open" burner in terms of allowing crud to fall through the center of the burner (but realistically more stuff falls over the edges of a pan onto the grates and the stainless sheet metal surrounding the burners).

    One area where there is a difference is the new burners do not light as easily as the old burners -- but only if there is no pot on top of the burners. I have to blow on them to get all of the gas ports to light. BUT -- this is definitely not a big deal because when there is a pan over the burner they light easily. The simple solution is to light a burner only when there is a pan on top, which is a good practice anyway.

    Longer term I hope they used a high quality paint on the new aluminum burner caps. It would look pretty bad to have a shiny cap on an otherwise black burner. Also, I would not use a green 3M scrubby to clean the caps as it may remove the paint. (Caveat - Maybe the cap is stainless steel and not aluminum as some stainless is non-magnetic, but it is NOT cast iron.)

    Billy

    This post was edited by billy_g on Tue, Oct 28, 14 at 8:05

  • PRO
    Trevor Lawson (Eurostoves Inc)
    9 years ago

    My understanding for the new aluminum cap is as follows

    1) The holes are perfectly drilled so far as angle and size, the drilling is done after the paint finish is applied. With the old burners on the CC and BS the holes were drilled prior to the finish been applied so the holes do clog a fraction changing the size and flow direction, this is a big improvement over the old burners on the CC and BS. would anyone really notice ? i doubt it... but its an engineering thing. If its all about heat and flame location / distribution Capital wins due to this alone

    2) The new burner does not click on the low simmering due to the controlled angle and location of the ignitor also the size and perfect shape of the first 3 holes as noted above.

    3) Another advantage would be the number of broken / cracked ignitors so far is zero, which is better than the BS due to the firm hold it has to the burner itself.

    4) There is no reason to light a burner without a pan on top of the grate. Capital and BS assume you will be using a pan when lighting a burner so if you put on on it will light within 3 click full every time. You can make the burner light within 3 click full without a pan on top if you change your air shutter position.

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hi Trevor,

    I agree the new burners are a big improvement.

    On (1), I agree the holes on the new burner cap look well-drilled and positioned.

    (2) Ignitor clicking depends on how the low-simmer adjustment is made for each burner. Of course it's possible to get clicking on the new burner just as it is possible to get clicking on any manufacturer's burner if the simmer position is adjusted too low and the burner is starved of gas. This is when you want the ignitor to click, for safety purposes. I think the new larger pilot hole will do a lot to make clicking less likely than with the old burner.

    (3) I agree. In fact, none of the ignitors broke on my burners during three years, even using the old attachment system. I recall Bluestar owners who posted with their ignitor cracking problems.

    (4) I made the same observation. The burners light quickly with a pan on top.

    Billy

    PS The ignitor clicking issue was really an issue of people turning the gas supply down too low in an effort to get lower heat. Capital solved this problem by re-introducing the 8K burner that allows a very low heat simmer. We have one 8K burner out of six burners total and this works fine.

  • breezygirl
    9 years ago

    Hi Billy. I've looked at this post a few times, but realized I hadn't commented. I didn't know Capital redesigned their burners until you posted.

    I still haven't figured out the best way to clean those silly metal ignitor holder brackets and am glad to see mine aren't the only gunky ones around. May I ask how you did clean them before? Not understanding how the gas burners work, I'm nervous to touch them much for fear of breaking them. The new design looks much easier to clean.

    I can definitely see the advantages of the new burners. I'm just not sure I'm ready to spend $450 to be able to enjoy them. Thanks for posting!

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hi Breezygirl,

    To tell you the truth, I never cleaned the ignitor brackets after the first month... they are just too much of a pain to clean. I'm comfortable around the ignitors and the brackets are sturdy. The best way is to take off the grates and scrub. Oven cleaner might work but I would be careful to not get any on the ignitor wiring. It might also be possible to wrap them in foil and replace the foil periodically but that wouldn't look great.

    You are correct it is not cheap to replace the burner assemblies, but on the other hand how many stove manufacturers provide engineering upgrades that you can buy to upgrade your burners to the latest design? You have to love Capital for making this available!

    Maybe Santa Claus will be extra good to you if you had the right balance of naughty and nice this last year! It's also possible to do the upgrade in stages such as two burners at a time although you would pay more in shipping.

    Billy

  • bellsmom
    9 years ago

    Billy and Trevor,
    Very nice information.

    My new-ish CC has the new burners. I love them.

    So easy to clean, and NO clicking on the lowest simmer for either the high powered burners or the simmer burner.

    Thanks for explaining why they work so well. I am certainly happy that I waited (inadvertently, because I ran out of renovation $$$) until these were standard.

  • alexrander
    9 years ago

    Billy, did you note that Trevor said you can get your burner to light without a pan on it by adjusting your air shutter..

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Alex,

    Yes, thank you for pointing that out. Bob at Capital told me the same thing and I will make the adjustments when I take the top apart to replace the rails and burner pans with some new parts.

    Billy

  • breezygirl
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the reply Billy. I have only cleaned mine couple of times, and that was only when DH was around to disassemble the burners. I don't like the foil idea so I just live with them.

    I am thankful that new burners are made available for those of us with the old.

    I've hinted to Santa many times this year about the wok burner, which I've been wanting for three years, so I'm not sure how much extra Santa has laying around for newer burners. We'll have to see.

    Oh......but it is our 20th wedding anniversary next month! Is it bad to ask for utilitarian hunks of metal for that? :)

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    breezygirl,

    I think it is great to ask for specifics for a present, even for a 20th anniversary gift from which DH will receive lots of benefits like a lifetime of yummy cooking. Good luck getting what you want!

    Billy

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I pulled out our Chef King griddle pan and put it across two of the cooking grates. It's griddlin' time!

    I noticed right away that the new burners can simmer lower than the old burners, probably because of the new igniter/burner configuration. The griddle pan used to smoke at the lowest setting, but no longer. In fact I had the burners turned too low at first, and I had to turn them up to get the low steady heat I like for griddlin'. I am happy, pancakes are happy, grilled cheese and tomato is happy.

    Nice job on the new burners, Capital!

    Billy

  • eshmh
    9 years ago

    I just brought back home a 36" range top with the new burners. I did not see it was mentioned above. The new burner is rated at 25,000 BTU, written on the user manual. It is same as their dual fuel series. Capital just didn't update the website.

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Congratulations on your new rangetop! You will enjoy cooking on it.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "not mentioned above"? What did you think should be mentioned? If you are saying that Capital is very slow to update its website, everyone here will agree with you!

    By "new burner" these are the burners that are shipping with the CC units and have been for some time. They don't ship the old burners anymore. Enjoy your new cooking machine.

    Billy

  • eshmh
    9 years ago

    i referred to new burner is rated 25,000 BTU. Maybe I missed it. Anyway, no need to envy Bluestar's new 25,000 burner. It also looks like the new drip pan leaves larger space between the pan and the burner (comparing mine with the one showing in your photo) for better air circulation I guess.

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I see -- that's good to know. I guess the machined aluminum burner caps they use now allow better gas flow than the cast iron burner caps they used previously. That's a nice little bump up in heat!

    That's interesting about the space between the pan and the burners. Drips will fall through rather than getting the burner pan dirty.

    Billy

  • Kelli Culpepper
    9 years ago

    Hello all. I'm in Arkansas - just sent Capital an email about where to purchase one of their rangetops from.

    There is no one close. However, I have no problem getting on line but if it has to be serviced, that would be an ordeal. What to do? I know I can get a BlueStar in Memphis but really want the Capital Culinarian. I would be thrilled to see one in person but not necessary.

    Any words of wisdom?

    Thanks!

  • PRO
    Trevor Lawson (Eurostoves Inc)
    9 years ago

    Capital uses independent service contractors from all over the US, so you wont have a problem getting service if its needed.

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    KelliQ81,

    You would do well to buy it from Trevor and get local service. He'll provide more consistent and timely service through him than from the factory, and he knows the key people at the factory should they be needed.

    That being said, the rangetops are simple and there's not much that can go wrong after it is installed and the burners adjusted.

    Billy

  • aliris19
    8 years ago

    Billy - this is an amazing post - informative and interesting. Thank you!

    I wanted to report on the experience with my new burners. They are, IMHO, amazing. They provide, IME, that "true simmer" that was advertised so heavily of yore, and which turned out not to be true.

    They are now. My Culinarean, I can now report, does in fact sport a "true simmer". Pots on "sim" do not boil over and dry (and burn; I have ruined a lot of pans on this range). Pans with a little oil do not smoke. Renderings can actually render - in fact "sim" is too low for this, even on the big burners.

    So I agree "congratulations", Capital. But honestly, as a consumer I have to ask why I didn't know about this "upgrade" and I doubt others did much either. I hadn't been active here for some time so I'm sure it was mentioned a lot about here and I just missed it. But why wouldn't Capital send out a letter to its customers about this?

    And the reason I think they owe this to their customers is because they sold this machine to us here at least, as exhibiting a "true simmer", which really never was true. I was sort of OK with swallowing this hubris, but I can tell you that now, I am happy-happy-happy-thrilled-ecstatic. Why wouldn't you want all your old reliable customers to feel this way? If you've figured out how to give em what you promised the first time around, then why not do it?

    Anyway, sorry for what amounts to a back-handed compliment. I don't mean too sound too angry; I'm really not and sort of OK with it all. I would attribute this to yet another instance of poor Capital CS amid superior product. And I say this with all sorts of sympathy for what underlies this: just normal-folks trying hard to make people happy. It's just, they're missing this glaring way to do it.

    Breezy, if you're still out there (hi!!!)- I suggest calling up Capital and asking to cut a deal on the new burners. IMO they are totally worth it, making the difference between a slow-burn annoyance and fast-burn ecstatic perfection. If you follow....

    Clicking is all gone. Drifting flame height: all gone. Way too hot simmer receding in the background as a bad memory. Having these new burners is like having a new range, as it should have been done right, the first time around. But I sure am a happy camper late, which is better than never!

    For the record, I would now, with these new burners, and for the first time, recommend this Culinarean unhesitatingly.

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Hi aliris19,

    I too am very happy with the new burners, and I agree Capital should have informed ALL of the old/original owners about the upgrade. Even better if the upgrade would have been free, but I was fine with paying to upgrade. After all, how many appliances even give you the option to upgrade -- usually you have to buy a whole new appliance!

    The new burners and igniters are totally worth it.

    Billy

  • will47
    8 years ago

    I got one of the new burners to try; are there any adjustments needed? As it is now, I find that the clicking at low temperatures is worse, not better, compared to the 2nd generation burners I had before (replaced the 1st gen ones). I have not tried adjusting the air shutter, but don't notice a lot of orange.

    Are the new burners actually 25k on the old ranges, and if not, is there an adjustment to increase the output (even if it's not officially supported)? I was told ahead of time that I wouldn't notice an increase on the high end, but surprising that there's no apparent increase at all.

  • alexrander
    8 years ago

    If you have clicking on the lowest setting, you may adjust the amount of gas that flows on the lowest setting of the knob by removing the knob and with a small thin screwdriver turn the adjustment up a little to allow more gas to go to the burner. It's basically a stop screw for low only, it won't affect the high.

    To affect the high, you would have to change the orifice under the grates. Or you could drill out the existing orifice- one gauge size. That would allow a bit more gas to reach the burner on 'high'. That may also require a shutter adjustment.


    As far as the low clicking goes, you might also inspect the small burner holes by the igniter, and make sure the igniter is aligned so that the spark reaches the escaping gas from the closest burner holes. And that the holes are not plugged.

  • 35j123
    4 years ago

    Has anyone successfully ordered the replacement burners recently? I've tried to call twice in the last year (after the clicking drives me mad enough) and I continue to talk to a rather surly individual in the parts department @ Capital and they deny the existence of a "changed" burner for the Culinarian. I also tried to email their email today and it bounced with "mailbox full".


    Does anyone have part numbers for what they ordered?


    It seems like there is too much play between the top and bottom of the original burner assembly, which causes the thing to click if it isn't aligned. I end up having to put tongues in there to shift it ever so slightly to get it to stop, until it gets shifted again.


    Thanks

  • rwiegand
    4 years ago

    I've just had a burner igniter fail, so remembered this thread and thought about changing out the whole burner. Searching for parts has been a little frustrating, and the Capital website has me a bit worried-- their blog posts are all from 2012. Is it still a going concern? I'm in the process of trying to contact them, but would also very much appreciate the part numbers if anyone knows them.

  • billy_g
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Contact Trevor Lawson at Eurostoves near Boston. Their website is under renovation:

    http://www.eurostoves.com/Default.asp

    Billy

  • rwiegand
    4 years ago

    Got the following response from Capital by email-- their customer service account was bouncing email, but the sales address went through. This was in response to asking about Culinarian range, model cgmr362b2.

    I bought my range from Eurostoves, I just assumed the worst when I saw that their web site was gone.


    Please see below for pricing please contact Adco (480) 998-0141

    Newer style of burner

    82366-01 cap

    82366-02 base

    82328-06 electrode

    Older style

    82361-01 cap

    82361-02 base

    20652 electrode assy

  • 35j123
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I have finally gotten the part numbers I need from Capital and Adco.

    The new burner is 25k vs 23k as others have mentioned. If you want the full 25k output, you need to change the oriface. The parts I am listing are for natural gas, given to me by Capital.

    My parts are for a CGSR484BG natural gas. Please confirm these parts with Adco for your needs.

    To upgrade a 23k old style burner to a new style burner (electrode built in):

    1. 82366-01 Burner Cap
    2. 82366-02 Burner Base
    3. 82101-43 Oriface for 25k burner

    The rep at capital said that you do not need to change the orifaces if you don't mind staying at 23k but the orifaces are $3 each, so you might as well get them.

    To upgrade a 23k old style burner to a new style 8k burner (electrode built in):

    1. 82366-04 Burner Cap 8k
    2. 82366-02 Burner Base
    3. 82101-56 Oriface for 8k burner

    Note that the burner base is the same and only the cap and the oriface change between the 25k and 8k. You do not need to buy the electrode part, it is attached to the base on the new style.

    In the event that one of your spark modules has failed like mine, that is part 84202-02.

    The cost for full kit 3x25k, 1x8k and 2xSpark modules was around $900.

    We can't wait to never hear clicking again (we hope).

  • HU-334608104
    3 years ago

    Thanks for all your help. Had an spark electrode go bad new style can i replace it or do i need to buy a new burner base.

    david

  • eshmh
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    You can get the electrode only. No matter it is warranty or not, I would suggest taking the opportunity to get a couple for potential future need.

  • HU-334608104
    3 years ago

    what tool would you use a hammer and chisel? It looks like a pressure fitted item is there a special tool?

  • eshmh
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    You turn over the burner base (after carefully but firmly pulling the wire off the electrode) and can see the electrode is held by a spring and a lock washer. You can use something like precision screw driver to fry the washer off. Installing is a bit tricky, but you know how it is assembled and can figure it out (like pressing the spring and meanwhile pushing the washer back to position by a flat head driver). :-)

  • HU-334608104
    3 years ago

    Thanks I sure am glad there is some source of assistance since capital seems to have left the market here in New Jersey. Their repair people won't come the 60m miles to help us out