Do you already have the electric in place for the range/oven?

Some people prefer baking with electric rather than gas. The main reason is that gas combustion produces water vapor which results in a humid baking environment. For certain types of baking such as crisp cookies or pastry that is not desirable. Also, many people believe electric ovens have better temperature control which has been disputed here many times before so take that with a grain of salt. I personally have no problems baking with either. It all depends on the type of baking and your personal preference.

And since many/most people prefer gas to electric (induction aside) when doing rangetop cooking. There's where the demand for dual fuel ranges comes from.

Sounds like you decided on the Samsung CD FD?

What did you think of your electric range you had before? From what I've read, electric is more precise when baking breads, pastries, etc. If baking is a major part of your kitchen use, I'd suggest getting a dual fuel. I've always had electric and never had any complaints.

Hopefully others that have gas can respond on how well it works in the oven. It's possible that the difference between the two is less than it was in the past.

country smile: Yes Im going with the Samsung.

Sfjeff: yes I have an electric range, now.

Sounds like electric is good for alot of baking, which I dont do. I grew up with a gas range and when we moved down here to Richmond, the range was electric. I had a hard time trying to control the heat factor on the stove top and decided that once I re-did my kitchen, I was getting gas.
So looks like I dont really need dual-fuel.

If you're used to an electric range, and moving either to a gas oven, or a hidden-element electric oven, BREAK THE HABIT of putting aluminum foil on the oven floor. There are several sad threads about that mistake.

The most significant difference between a dual fuel and an all gas range is the higher upfront cost for the dual fuel. I for one couldn't justify it. And, and having an all gas range now, and an all electric range previously, in my personal experience (FWIW), the "superiority" of electric ovens for baked goods is unfounded. Even if people disagree with me regarding baked goods, I believe that the general consensus is that a gas oven is better for roasting and broiling.

I am linking a recent thread about the cost differences.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread about AG or Dual Fuel Range

cawfeegirl - definitely DON'T put aluminum foil on the bottom of your oven. There are recents thread about people who ruined the finish of their oven by doing just that.

Sometimes the deciding factor between gas and electric is just plain what you are used to using.

There is a steep premium for the dual-fuel models. I have heard that electric can perform a little better than gas in convection mode for home ovens, but don't have anything but a couple anecdotes from pretty unreliable sources for that. I do have a professional chef as a friend who, when asked about home convection said it did something (and he uses at home, especially for roasting and when browning was important), but expressed his disappointment about its performance compared to a "real" convection oven.

There are all kinds of arguments, I mean, friendly discussions, about if gas or electric heats faster. In my opinion, the bottom line is that if you're doing any temperature-sensitive baking you should be letting the "box" of the oven stabilize for several minutes anyways, negating arguments over a few minutes one way or another on getting up to temperature. Once at temperature, the stability is primarily determined by thermal mass (the weight of the metal box) and the thermostat's properties, at least in the high-end ranges.

Since you've got the electric in already and, I assume, don't have to relocate it, that additional cost isn't there.

When you do the gas, make sure you size the line for the full output of the burners and oven. Depending on the run length, it should be at least 3/4" -- the incremental cost of going up a size in pipe is relatively cheap. A 30" pro-style range can be on the order of 100,000 BTU/hr, a 36" around 130,000. For comparison, the gas charts often rule-of-thumb a home furnace at 100,000.

Here is a link that might be useful: California Code Gas Pipe Sizing

If you're going to go spend the couple grand to put in a new gas line, getting a dual stove is just more money to spend. If you lay out the kitchen differently, you could do an electric wall oven and a gas top. But thats up to you.

Im just curious...why do people put aluminum foil on the bottom of their ovens??

sfjeff: thanks for all the info...my plumber is putting the lines in for the stove next week and I will tell him about the 3/4 inch pipe--Im in Richmond, VA by the way!!

weedmeister: bringing in the gas line was only $400 for the gas company and a couple hundred for the plumber to bring the line into the house. But still, I dont think the dual-fuel is worth the extra money for me. Thanks!!

people put aluminum foil on the bottom of the oven in attempt to keep the bottom of the oven clean by catching the drippings - BUT most ovens these days have warnings against doing so and a number of people on this forum have ruined the bottoms of their ovens by having the foil melt.

Ohhhhh....well for once I guess its a good thing Im a sloppy cook! :)

OK, so I think Im going with an all gas range.

Next question: how far in advance can I buy my appliances?
Our reno probably wont start until January. If I get appliances now, is that too soon? I can store them in our garage, but my husband is concerned that if something is wrong with one of them, we wont know till installing them in jan or feb and by then it will be too late to return them. Does that make sense?

Yeah, the foil thing was popular with the gas ranges in the 80s.

Personally, I would wait. Unless you are getting a deal that is unbeatable and must act now, I'd wait until Jan or Feb. If you order them, most shippers only give you 30-60 days at most before reporting damage so you'll probably want to get it installed in that timeframe. Plus, there's always sales in Jan/Feb since is just after the holidays so you might even be able to get better pricing. Why waste the space in your garage if you don't have to. Let them store it and you can earn interest on your money in the meantime (even if it's only like 50 cents). You can always call around now and find out what their lead times are so you can time your install with the renovation.

Good luck.

2 decisions made - which appliance is next? :)

When to order the appliances: We picked out our appliances at a local appliance store in November 08 and they weren't installed until May 09. We put a deposit on them. In the last few days I got 3 more warranty papers stating the warranty begins on 5/21/09. If you deal with an appliance store instead of on-line, they may only order the appliances a few weeks before the expected installation date. Several of our appliances were floor models and those warranties also started the date of installation.

I wouldn't suggest storing them in a garage or someone else until you're ready to use them. As amcook said, let the appliance store hold onto them.

Cawfeegirl - Also, for most brands the clock starts ticking on the warranty upon delivery, not upon installation. You don't want to forego several months of warranty while the appliances are sitting in your garage. We have had posters here complain that they've had a problem with an appliance only to find they'd run out of their warranty with only 5-6 months of usage, cause for the rest of the time period the appliance was sitting somewhere un-installed.

If you are worried about getting the measurements of your appliances to your GC, cabinet maker, or countertop templater, note that you can find appliances' specifications posted online--you don't have to have the appliances onsite. Also keep in mind that those people I just mentioned typically take longer than they say ("it'll be done in two weeks"...er, four weeks...now it's six weeks off", etc.).

Having said that, you also don't want to wait till the last minute to purchase your appliances. Sometimes the one you want is on backorder, and you could hold up the completion of your kitchen waiting for that appliance. I think purchasing one month before you think they'll be needed is good, though other people might think you need more lead time. Just MHO.

One other consideration when deciding between gas or electric ovens is ventilation. Years ago gas ovens were vented to the out of doors though vent pipe (if you're old enough, you'll remember seeing these rising behind the range and going into the wall). The vent carried the combustion fumes (and a lot of excess heat) from the large oven burner out of the house.

Ranges made nowadays are vented directly into the kitchen, so you'll need to operate your range hood whenever the gas oven is in use to carry fumes and excess heat out of the house. With an electric oven, there are no combustion fumes, so running the vent hood becomes optional when using just the oven.

If having the vent hood running whenever you're using the oven is an issue for you, then the dual fuel range might be a better choice.

sorry wa8b but you don't have to run your vent hood every time you use a gas oven - unless the oven is malfunctioning, it mainly produces CO2 and H20, not carbon monoxide CO. Yes, you can run your hood to vent these and the heat but it's definitely not mandatory. I frequently use my oven without running the vent hood.

weissman, I never said anything about carbon monoxide, nor did I mention any sort of danger from operating the oven without a vent hood. My point was about combustion fumes, meaning odors, carbon dioxide, moisture and excess heat -- which most people don't want in the kitchen. You can certainly operate a gas oven without the exhaust fan on, but why would you want to?

Come to think of it, when I was younger and grew up with a gas stove, we DID have a vent hood over it. But I dont recall my parents running it every time the oven was on.

"you'll need to operate your range hood whenever the gas oven is in use to carry fumes and excess heat out of the house"

I do not agree. I have an all gas range and only need to vent fumes when I am cooking something smoky like ribs or steaks. And that would be the case whether my oven were gas or electric. Similarly "heat" vented into the kitchen would be the same whether generated by electric or gas. I think Wa8b may be thinking of long-ago gas ovens with a pilot light which meant gas was constantly running in his/her example of ovens vented outdoors.

Wa8b - I don't see in the list you gave of "combustion fumes" the difference in gas vs. electric oven cooking. You don't need a hood to exhaust a gas oven more than you'd need it for an electric oven. If you are broiling e.g. steaks in your oven and they're sizzling and giving off smoke, the need to exhaust would be the same in an electric or gas oven. A similar discussion comes up when people say an induction cooktop needs less powerful hood exhaust than a gas cooktop. Actually, the hood is needed most to exhaust smoke, odor and grease, which arises from what you are cooking, not from the type of energy used.

IMHO when one is deciding between an AG or a DF range, the need to exhaust a gas oven is not in the equation. If you feel that electric makes for better baked goods, or for more even baking temps, then that should sway you to an electric oven. In my experience though, my AG range bakes as well if not better than my previous electric range.

OK, so I wasn't planning on having a hood, I was just going to do an OTR microwave. (I know, I know, but there's a budget I need to stick to!) Will that be okay with an AG range?

With no hood and a 70s(?) Caloric range, there is a thin film of grease on everything in the kitchen constantly. Pots on the pot rack need to be washed before use of they haven't been used in a month. We recently discovered that the kitchen ceiling was white, not creme....

I don't think an OTR MW is OK, but I don't think it's OK regardless of whether you have a dual fuel or an all gas range. As I just said in my previous message, if you need to exhaust an oven because you are broiling smoky steaks for example, that need would be the same whether your oven is gas or electric. A gas oven doesn't need to be exhausted more than an electric oven.

I hated my OTR MW so much that I switched it out when it was just a few months old for a proper hood. My OTR MW, despite being a top-of-the-line "powerful" machine was ineffective at exhausting. There are only two small mesh squares under the OTR MW for the exhaust, so they can only cover the back burners. The cfms are inadequate (I had 300 cfms in my OTR, but 300 cfms in a MW and 300 cfms in a proper hood are completely different due to the lack of capture area in the OTR MW), the noise is terrible, the small mesh squares got clogged very quickly, I hated pulling hot sloshing dishes from the height of the OTR MW, yet at the same time the height of the MW made the cooktop area seem cramped (a hood is placed higher over the cooktop), and I thought it was ugly to boot. I switched it out for a proper hood and I am so much happier.

The ONLY reason I can see for an OTR MW instead of a real exhaust hood is if you have a very small kitchen, and there is no place to put a MW other than OTR. Then it makes sense. As to budget, be aware that OTR MW's cost several times what a countertop MW costs. Also MWs these days have very short lives; you will likely be replacing it in 3 years. Budget isn't really a valid reason to choose an OTR MW over a hood.

Another consideration when making the AG vs DF decision is whether you want unsealed or sealed burners. Most (all?)ranges with DF are available only with sealed burners. Because Sealed vs Unsealed is such a heated topic I hesitate to bring it up, but it does figure into the overall decision regarding DF or AG

Ugh...ok. So now Im leaning towards the hood.

So...sealed burners? I thought they were a good thing, no?
What's the controversy??

By the way, I am in AWE of all of your knowledge and opinions. I really appreciate you taking the time to help out an amateur such as myself.

Uh oh...

...the genie has escaped the bottle.

"Come to the dark side, my son..."

First off, there are exceptions to every rule. There are even commercial sealed-burner designs. Secondly, trevorlawson runs EuroStoves, so take his bias and interests as you see appropriate. He is more than happy to sell you something other than a BlueStar.

Without argument, sealed burners are sexier. They just look better. Without argument, BlueStar's open burners are, well, sort of industrial.

Down to how do they work on a day to day basis?

Many argue that sealed burners are easier to keep clean.

Many argue that a well-designed open burner cooks more evenly than most sealed-burner designs (which tend to have a cool spot in the middle).

Many disagree with both statements.

Trevor has some interesting videos of BlueStar ranges with address some of those questions in at least an educating way. He is also a very good source of product and ships nationwide (including sealed-burner pieces).

Also search for the threads here on sealed vs. open burners

Here is a link that might be useful: EuroStove's BlueStar site

"Without argument, sealed burners are sexier. They just look better." Sfjeff - I guess I have to argue that. I have a sealed burner range and I am tired of its look. The sealed burner top just looks kind of childish to me now, and a little dated. I'm also not keen on the tiny brown ring that is around each burner - a phenomenon that occurs on sealed burner cooktops when food boils over and burns on around the burner. This does not occur on open burners because food that boils over spills into the drip tray beneath (and the drip tray can be lined with foil for easy cleanup). Having said that, I feel a little guilty, and whiney, for criticizing, because my range has been an excellent performer--it just would be that much better with open burners.

Eurostoves Video - click on 3rd one "Easy Cleanup"

Eurostoves Video -click on 4th video "Open Burner vs. Sealed Burner"

Thread about Open vs. Sealed Burners