Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

For argument's sake, let's just set aside the notion of the cost of the repairs, and who pays them, and whether the warranty should have been extended to pay for the costs. Let's instead focus on the fact that these machines need the repairs so soon in their lives, whether it's under a year, or under two years. When one purchases appliances, one has the reasonable expectation of an appliance that works for several years. I don't think 5 years is an unreasonable expectation for an appliance to work without needing a repair. If you think 5 years is too long to expect, then how about 3 repair-free years? Shouldn't 3 years be a reasonable time? But these reports on Bluestars, not just Susan's and Ftwobenny's, but so many others that have been noted on this forum for the several years I have been a member, are all for BS's that are too young to have these problems.

I realize that gone are the days of my youth when my parents' kitchen had appliances that lasted 20 years, and no one thought anything of it. But really, Bluestar has been extraordinarily problem-prone (and again, I am setting aside the he-said/she-said part about who should pay for the repairs). I read this forum and am astonished that Bluestar adherents think it's OK, and "part of the experience" to need new spark modules, replace ignitors, tighten parts that arrived loose from the factory, to have to adjust your own flame setting so that it simmers properly (yes, the directions to do so have been posted on this forum), and the like. Hey, Bluestar Fans! You should be up in arms about this. But you find it acceptable, and I have read here all kinds of excuses (it was a "bad run", "a bad installation", "Bluestar isn't using those igniters any longer", "that was the other guy at BS who said that", etc.). It's sort of like having a misbehaving child that you just continue to indulge, and then to rail against any one who says the child should be reprimanded.

Also, about the ubiquitous "bad installation" excuse. Thousands upon thousands of ranges are installed all over the U.S, and have been for several generations. It is a pretty straightforward thing to do. Why is the Bluestar so darned difficult? Why can't the manufacturer make a machine that installs like a range, instead of like an MRI machine? On the one hand, Bluestar says their ranges are so simple and straightforward that anyone can install them, but on the other hand, the first thing Bluestar blames for malfunctions is the installation, which evidently, only a few can do properly. Which is it?

Yes, gone are the days when appliances had 20-year lives. But really, a normal and reasonable expectation for repair-free appliance function has not been met by Bluestar. They are turning out from the factory many machines that are not meeting any manufacturer's version of a quality standard, including, I bet, their own.

"Bluestar has built a service network throughout the country and they are known to bend over backwards to help their consumers"
With all due respect, that was not my experience.
Dealer was Select Appliance in California.
The unit is over one year old and out of warranty but I agreed with the prior poster that ""It is unfathomable that a mfr would sell a premium product and allow someone to have a non functioning range after 13 months."
This is a range that I got cut on, very deeply because of manufacturing defect. A range that leaked gas internally upon installation. A range which had numerous parts that did not fit (all the knobs) or were admittedly defective (the ignition module). The second ignition module failed before the year was out but after a rope-a-dope by Bloodgood, bang, I'm out of warranty on the same part that went bad before.
Let's agree on this. After one year you are ____ed.

Shannon, if we agree that appliances should no longer achieve 20 year useful lives then we are basically giving manufacturers permission to design and build what are tantamount to disposable machines. Let's not do our parts to perpetuate the disposable society that seems to be unfolding. Let's instead pursue sustainability and true cradle-to-grave efficiency. [soap box font off]

Let's all be happy that BS doesn't manufacture cars. Otherwise, many of us would be walking to work :).

They certainly lost our sale. As an engineer and woodworker (i.e. someone used to buying machines made out of metal) I can't fathom why they have so much difficulty manufacturing and designing a reliable range. The technology is old. Nothing is complicated. Some good quality control in the factory, together with 10% more money spent bending sheet meta would go a long way toward an improved product. I fear that they exit the business at some point under the load of all of these warranty repairs...

Or that Microsoft doesn't make cars. How about a Vistamobile?

Seriously, though, like any product, the internet has the ability to amplify the voices of unhappy consumers out of proportion to their numbers. I had never heard of Blue Star, and didn't hear about them from this forum. A friend of mine bought one about 3 years ago. Loves it and hasn't had any problems. But he doesn't frequent these forums, so who hears that? Amirm, "exit the business at some point under the load of all of these warranty repairs"? I'm not discounting the problems that posters here have had, but count the numbers. 4 or 5? A dozen, even? How many satisfied owners don't participate in the online world, or bother to post their experiences. You can see a similar number of complaints about most major appliances. I guess I'll see. I have a brand new Blue Star 36" range about to be installed. I'll try to be sure and post my experience with it, but honestly, I'm more interested in moving back in my house and enjoying my remodel than hanging out online.

"Seriously, though, like any product, the internet has the ability to amplify the voices of unhappy consumers out of proportion to their numbers. "

That is true. So do spend some time comparing units in store as we did. Open the top, look at the attention to detail underneath. Pull out the spill tray. Note any sharp edges. See how the wires are organized. Pay attention to the heat insulation around the oven door. Note how large the gap is compared to others, leading to the bottom of the door being hotter than it should be.

We looked at the above factor, it was clear to me that BS is built using lower quality standards. Now, does that impact everyone. No. Or they would already be out of business. But let's not assume everyone is blindly following internet posts. Some of us do use our own data to augment what we read here. And when the vectors align, then a decision is made to accept the data posted here.

It is a shame really. Most of us would love to have the power of that unit in our kitchens. As such, BS has to really work hard to push us away. But push away they have done....

Off topic...sorry:

Amirm: Are you the same Amirm that used to run the HD-DVD group at MS?

BTW- the people who are posting about BS and that the problems are exaggerated...for these people obviously they are not. Why would one buy a unit only to complain about it and waste months and months of time moaning if it were not really defective? Many manufacturers step up to the plate and honour defects well after the warranty is up.

Regards,
LIP

"ftwobenny when you start a phone call stating youare a lawyer and want this taken care of at no charge even though it is out of warranty otherwise you will cause problems oh did you leave that out"

Never in the initial phone calls with bluestar did I mention that I am a lawyer, and never did i represent that I will cause problems. Where would you get such nonsense? I want to continue to be a great advocate for Bluestar as I love the way it performs, and I feel it unreasonable to absorb a $400 repair on a 13 month old range. Your fact checking could use some improvement.

"Most of us would love to have the power of that unit in our kitchens."

Is Bluestar really that much more powerful, in a truly useful way, than many of the other pro-style ranges and rangetops? I have a Wolf (and have nothing against Bluestar) and can't see a need for more power.

sent this email to matt shutte at bluestar repairs (thought they had said "matthew ,^) on sept. 17, 2008
matthew,
i purchased my bluestar rcsir366b range on 1/15/07. it was delivered on 1/29/07 & installed within a week. as it was winter, i began to use the oven right away, as well as the rest of the burners. one of the burners would not light, just kept clicking; and the very 1st time i used the oven, after it had been on for some time it banged like a gunshot & scared the daylights out of me. i called eurostove (where i had purchased from) & they referred me to your dept. run by pete at the time.
as i live in iowa, there was no local bluestar service person pete could send out. now the appliance barn in kalona is carrying bluestar; which is entirely due to my trying to acquire the range locally. i had called your distributor in chicago in the hope of maybe getting it through them & they contacted the appliance barn, who agreed to carry the line. all said & done, appliance barn could not match the "builders special" price with free shipping from eurostove, out of massachusetts, as eurostove had a big lot of the builders models from you (to the tune of a $1500 difference).
as a result, pete asked me if i knew of any local appliance repair shops i might trust to install a new ignition unit he would send out for the burner in question & that he could then instruct on the other problem (the banging oven). i only knew, off-hand of one place, "leazer's", who had been in the repair biz forever, but i had had no personal experience of. pete contacted them & sent the part to him. he came to install & it was a fiasco. the man was actually handicapped! & rather testy, not trusting the information pete was supplying on my cell phone that the location of the unit was in the front. he kept insisting it was in the back after having taken the front apart & not remembering what he took out of where. to this day i have a few screws that he couldn't figure out where they had come from & refused to believe me as i saw where they had fallen away from. finally, i just had him reclose the front up by getting rather aggressive (which was weird toward an old, handicapped fellow, but i'd run out of options)
so pete & i reattempted to have another local fellow named lothar who pete had located online come over & actually do the installation correctly. when he finished, i brought up the oven issue & he said that pete had only authorized him to do the one thing. i wanted to call pete then & there with him still in the house, but he said he had to go as he had other appts to keep (he had come as a kind of emergency), but that he would come back when he could fit it in, should pete authorize him to.
so, i called pete after he had left & pete said he would call him & authorize the oven fix. i let it go at that point, thinking the guy would eventually show up. he never did & being in the midst of total house renovation, i simply forgot about the time slipping away.
then one day a few months later the repairman showed up at my house. he was there with another fellow & they immediately started to talk to me about "the lord". they were jehovah's witness'! i said, "hey, how come you never came back to fix the oven?" he responded that he had never been contacted & that he was very sorry, he certainly would have come back.
when they left, i attempted to contact pete again. i left a few messages & he never called back. of course, at this point it's summer, we had no a/c & there was no way i was using the oven. again, i simply forgot about it.
beginning in september we had alot of traveling back & forth to texas (brother's wedding); followed by 6 months in india from november til april & then los angeles (daughter having baby) from may-june. since back i fired up the oven twice (summer); once for cornbread & once for pizza. both times, the bang. 4 days ago i let tea over-boil & the resulting mess seemed to make the burner flames too high (yellow tips, pots black) couldn't call as it was the weekend. called monday morning & left a message to you. meantime, i began looking through the manual & found the air-flow regulation was possibly the problem. it was. i adjusted. so when john called back, my first utterance was "well, i found the answer to one of my issues in the manual, but my other issue is my oven makes a big bang when it is on..."
he has very kindly sent me the info on adjusting the flame, and at the same time has slam-dunked sending me a replacement oven bottom. pete had never mentioned that as a possible necessary fix, so the 1st time i became aware of it was this a.m. when john called at the crack of sunrise. believe me, had i been informed back when, i'd have ordered it through pete right then.
so what i'm saying finally is that i deeply feel that your company should want to honor the fact that i had been attempting since i got the range (not every minute, but on and off) to have the banging oven issue addressed. please reconsider your judgement of not being able to do so, as i'm sure you have the power to do so. i would greatly appreciate it.

i received no response & by 9/22 attempted calling & emailing. on 9/23 called again, early a.m. & matt picked up!! i was very surprised, but identified myself & asked if he had gotten my email. he confirmed that he had & had determined to replace the oven bottom for me & would ask john to ship it out that a.m.

this a.m., having heard nothing from them or a shipper of any sort & having run into this thread, i sent the following to john at bluestar service:
hi john,
did actually speak directly to matt on sept. 23. he said that he was going to honor the oven bottom replacement & would ask you to ship it out that morning. i thanked him very much & put it out of my mind (again). it has been nearly 2 weeks & suddenly remembered that i've received no further contact from you or a shipping notice of any sort, so am wondering if & when the replacement has shipped & by what carrier?

will follow up post, depending on the response/action of bluestar.

I find it interesting that "guadalupe" seems to have inside information on all of the Bluestar appliance threads. 7 pages of postings if you look up the name in the appliance forum, but no kitchen! How is it that "guadalupe" could possibly know how ftwobenny starts a phone call? Or on other threads conversations with Susan?

All I know is that Bluestar has a wide range of customers, of whom many are very pleased with their ranges performance, but an equal amount who are troubled with poor service when their range has problems. Maybe it is they who should spend less time monitoring appliance forums and more time helping the customer who purchases their product. No one expects to spend that kind of money and then have to turn around just one month out of warranty and have an expensive repair or have to replace their range.

chipshot - yes, the power of BS's 22K burners is that noticeable and in a very truly useful way. Although not needed all of the time, when I need it, the Wolf simply could not compare. Yes, I have had both and love both but the 22K BS burners are indeed incredible. Also, IMO, the BS burner design is superior in all respects to Wolf for my preferences. As I mentioned earlier, I really did enjoy my Wolf and would buy it again if I could not have my BS.

Also, I think one comment here is a bit exaggerated and that is that there are just as many dissatisfied BS customers as happy ones. While I do not have the verfiable statistics on that, reading this and other sources does not seem to support that claim. It is true however, that unhappy stories get much more bill time and effort on these forums than happy stories.

I think everyone who frequents this forum is well aware of Susan's and Bluestar's differences and that horse has been beaten to the point I am surprised PETA has not chimed in. Susan indeed has every right to expect to get what she paid for but, from other experiences posted here, both good and bad, her BS problems seem to be very unique and limited only to her unit. It is worth noting though that she had little, if anything, good to say about any of the appliances she used in her project. A little research on BS on this forum should give the interested reader/consumer a really good cross section of experiences of the top ranges both good and bad.

Joniir, I'm not surprised that you didn't get a response to that email. I doubt that I would have responded, either.

May I respectfully suggest that you use proper capitalization, proper paragraphing, and trim it down to no more than 10-15 lines? Then you're not as likely to end up in the "I'll attempt to plow through all that later" pile. (And, of course, "later" rarely happens.)

plucky-I think you hit the nail on the head. Guadalupe is apparently a shill for BS on this site. It is fascinating to note that I never mentioned my profession in any of my calls to BS, but it may only be inferred from the letterhead on which I wrote to plead my case to BS customer service.

This statement is a bigger untruth than the ones you hear from the politicians these days. An equal amount dissatisfied as pleased? Really???

There are a few vocal cases of displeausre (in some cases - like Susan's oft-repeated) . If you do a honest search, you will find many more satisfied owners than unhappy ones. And as is typical, most folks when they are happy do not post a lot - compared to someone who is unhappy. So that even further contradicts your statement

berryberry,

I agree, an equal amount is an exaggeration, however, when you do an honest search through the appliance forum, Bluestar has more complaints about customer service than other manufacturers (not including Viking). Just doing a preliminary run through the Bluestar threads, I count 9 posters in addition to Susan, who have given negative reviews on their Bluestar regarding parts not working and trouble getting their range repaired and the issues resolved. Maybe that is why they instituted their new 2 year white glove service. Bluestar is a great range with great performance when it works. Having invested so much in your own very beautiful kitchen remodel, you have every reason to want Bluestar to stand behind their range.

I really believe those who post with complaints and compliments do all of us on these forums a great service. They give us information we may not otherwise have. They give us pause about things we may have just glossed over when looking at that beautiful appliance. Maybe we were too glassy-eyed to notice that the grates do not sit level or that the edges aren't finished very well. It is possible that may folks would not have gotten their kitchenaid and Fisher Paykel double ovens fixed as easily if not for the postings here regarding the problems with the self-cleaning. Others would not have been aware of the LG light bulbs causing fires.
The good also comes into play with good warranty service from companies and new product knowledge. Most appliance stores have salesmen and not customer advocates, so those who post on these forum, both good and bad, I view as customer advocates. Don't start berating someone for an opinion or complaint. We do not want to chase people away. This forum helps so may with everything from layout to finishing and is such an asset.
Personally, I would not have know about many products without this forum as where I live, small town PA, we do not have stores with Fisher Paykel appliances. Where would I find out about Leibher or Lacanche!
Criticism is acceptable when constructive, but not cruel, especially when the person doing the criticising does not completely read the posters post, JMHO.
G

hey solarpowered, sorry to have offended your compositional sensibilities. have gotten used to alot of emailing & become
lackadaisical in proper correspondence (evidence, this note). was merely attempting to give the clear & current circumstances surrounding my experiences. will not bother to follow-up; didn't really expect a lesson in grammar. (in other words, taking my marbles & heading home).

plcukymama - thanks for confirming your statement was an exaggeration

As to the 9 complaints you found, yes I read probably most of them when researching ranges. And if I recall, many were a few years old related to a specific ignitor issue which has since been resolved.

I also took into account the fact that while there were some complaints, that were a lot more positives - and overall,an overwhelming number of overall posts re: BS as compared to other vendors. So naturally, if you have 26 threads that reached the max posts on general BS info alone, you will find a larger number of positives and negatives

I would bet if you looked at the % of negative posts compared to positive posts for most ranges here in this class, you will find the same relative % of complaints .

its all relative

that was my impression as well, and no, it's not about proper grammar on a website such as this, but when sending an email as a customer to a supplier, good grammar and brevity (key!) is important.

Guadalupe is apparently a shill for BS on this site.

that's not been my impression at all. guadalupe does, in fact, seem to know an awful lot about various appliance companies (not just bluestar, she frequently posts about others), and i'm not sure how, but she seems to be correct more often than not.

i've been reading here for quite a while and i don't think she's a shill for anyone.

"And if I recall, many were a few years old related to a specific ignitor issue which has since been resolved. "

This is false. I know because I have a defective spark Ignitor module (that's right, a spark ignitor that BlueStar has admitted is a defective part) and they refuse to replace it. It is beyond the year warranty but when a company uses a defective part and replaces it with the same defective part, one would think they would replace it. It was and is unreasonable for Bluestar to refuse.

It has been my experience that the ignitors on my range have been prone to cracking, since i have had several that have (like the one in my picture). I simply want to know where I can buy them and for how much. I will say this to all of you that believe consumer complaints are suspect... if Bluestar is that great on customer service and parts, will one of you Bluestar apologists find out how much those ceramic ignitors are each and where I can purchase them? I need two immediately and will probably by a few spare ones if they are reasonable.

Not sure how much they cost but I have two i can send to you

I think keeping this forum a comfortable place to praise, criticize or complain about an appliance is very important. Using Bluestar as an example, there are many, many glowing posts but if you read them carefully, most people are willing to accept a variety of faults with the range because they believe it's a worthwhile trade off to get the superior burner design and cooking power the range offers. I was initially sold by these glowing reports, but know myself well enough to know that I wouldn't be happy with some of the range's idiosyncracies...I'm not a tinker-er and am hopeless at DIY so it wasn't the range for me (tho I still covet those star burners!). If owners hadn't been so honest about what they liked and didn't like, I may have ended up one of the very unhappy BS customers on this site.

And not to single out Bluestar, I had the same experience with the Shaw's sink...I just know I couldn't handle it's wonkieness despite how much I like the way it looks. Thank you to everyone who takes the time to post honest reviews of their experiences with these products. The more information we have, the better we can make choices that work for us.

This is a positive review of Bluestar. I learned of this range on this website, steered here by Consumer Reports. I live in Calgary, Canada and purchased from a dealer/wholesaler in Montreal - my only option at the time. The dealer was very accommodating to my delays and delays in delivery time, and in the end delivered exactly when I requested which was 14 months ago.
The range, a 36" with griddle, natural gas, was delivered with one broken burner grate. The dealer promptly deliverd a replacement by courier. It, too, was broken, and another one delivered within days, with the only request from the dealer being that I return the broken grate, at the dealer's expense. Since that time I have had nothing go wrong on the range. I have a coloured range (distant blue) which is beautiful, and none of the sharp edges that others have complained of. As everyone knows, the burners are awesome, the oven reliable as to temperature, and the broiler amazing.
I am posting this to offset the negative reviews I have been reading lately. I expect there are many, many satisfied users like me who are very grateful to the early adopters who highly recommended this range and convinced us to purchase - in my case, sight unseen.

Another happy Bluestar owner here, for 2.5 years now. Ceramic ignitors are just that- mini spark plugs.

I have no skin in this game, but guadalupe, what led you to assert that someone started a phone call the way you were claiming that ftwobenny did? Who told you about such a phone call? For whom do you work--you definitely have professional level information, so a little full disclosure would be appreciated. Pros on other fora identify themselves as such.

And if it wasn't ftwobenny, I wonder if it could have been someone else having the same problem...which means this is isn't isolated...

trevor:
Thank you for the offer but I need more than two and I would prefer obtaining them from a reliable source that can get me additional ignitors and other parts. For example, I also need a spark ignition module. Bluestar quoted me $96 plus shipping upon their refusal to warrant the defective part. I was taken aback by their refusal to cover a defective part even though I had offered to install it myself.
I received no response from BS to my inquiry regarding the price/availability of the ignitors which I thought was strange.

What I think Bluestar should do to address many of the customer service issues from folks like me is to offer an extended 5 year PARTS warranty. In conjunction with that, they could do what Sears parts does with many items they carry. Sears puts up schematics of things on the internet where you can view the parts and order them on line. I have used the Sears parts internet utility many times to view and purchase parts to repair things.

Another thing that Bluestar should do is to publish any recalls or defective parts/part numbers on their web page.
I have been working through the defective spark ignition module issue now for two years. Only after several emails did Bluestar admit in writing that theie ranges had a defective ignition module. The same thing happened with loose handles that they put on many units.

Finally, if they have used a defective part, they should AT LEAST offer to replace that part even after the one year warranty.

In my opinion, the BS ignitors are not designed very well and not suitable for their intended purpose. Simply stated, they will break through no fault of the owner. I do not abuse my range and do not use it or have to clean it that often, yet I have gone through a handful of these that have developed hairline cracks for some reason. Once the ceramic cracks they short out. I have had ignitors on sealed ranges that have not cracked like the ones BS uses. One difference seems to be that the BS ignitors have a space between the electrode and the ceramic where moisture can get in and perhaps crack the ceramic when it heats up. Otherwise, they just crack from expansion and contraction from being heated and cooled down.

As far as the design of the BS, my biggest gripe (beyond the ignition module and ignitors,,,) is how sharp everything under the grates is from the sheet metal to all the sheet metal screws. You eventually have to get in there to degrease the thing and it can be treacherous. Periodically, the range gets this old grease smell that causes me to get in there and try to get to the source of it.

Like many others here, I trusted Prizer Painter AND many on this web site to purchase this range from an internet source in another State without even seeing it. In return, PP has no loyalty to its customers. One year and you are on your own, baby. During that year, they made me go through the poor guy that sold it to me who had to locate some appliance repair shop around here to work on it and accept payment from their shop in California. It was pretty bizarre.

Finally, if anyone has a source OTHER THAN Bluestar for parts, please post it. This is a matter of principle to me. I do not want to pay PP for a defective part that they admitted was defective and just refused to own up to.

I have been searching around for a replacement part for Blue Star's defective "Invensys" 6 point ignition module.
Blue Star wants $92.63 plus shipping for a third Invensys but assures that "the Invensys part with serial number U-67205-29 has been the one causing a majority of the spark module problems." I don't know if my second module is in the "majority" of those causing spark issues, since I have had two bad ones.
In searching around I found a similar module manufactured by Tytronics and used in other another brands for $59.00 . Do any of the appliance experts here know if this unit will work in the Bluestar? If so, I would rather purchase that for $59 than the one I had problems with for $92.63.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tytronics spark ignition module

Well, as someone who was planning on buying a new bluestar next week for our new house, I don't plan on it now. My 7 year old Frigidaire Gallery hasn't given me one lick of problems and I'm thinking I'll go that route again.

A thought: if you purchase an appliance with certain credit cards, you automatically get a doubling of the warranty up to one extra year. I don't know the mechanics, but I know my mastercard confirmed for me that I would get that, so I effectively have two years warranty on my American Range purchase.

BS claims they are going to "take care" of this situation...we shall see what that means. The total bill was just under $300. I am encouraged. Guadalupe of course already knew this, but to me it was good news. To everyone else without an insider at BS, I will report further when news is available.

well, have decided to rescind my declaration of not posting a follow-up, but continue to do so in bad grammatical taste for the sake of those on this thread that are interested in the actual topic. contrare to the opinions of solarpowered & edlakin, my badly conceived, excruciatingly long diatribe did the trick. if i had left it alone after john (at bluestar) told me they couldn't possibly honor something so far out of warranty; which prompted my really long, detailed experience, that i sent directly to matt shutte (repairs director); i would not be sitting here with my new oven bottom, delivered this afternoon. ta da.

LOL joniir - Nice job!

I for one, found your diatribe fairly amusing, and can appreciate your annoyance at the writing critique.

(I do have to admit though, your lack of caps makes my eyes cross a bit when reading your posts. It's one thing in short posts, but the long paragraphs blur together. I know your shift key works because you do use quotes and parentheses!)

More to the point though, good luck with your new oven floor. Let us know if it does the trick!

Hey ya think,
You're right, my shift key does work. The original email I posted was only meant for the Bluestar peeps. After having spent so much time already, had no intention of continuing to waste any more with them. I'm so used to emailing w/o caps, to do so adds much consideration time. Then I just pasted it in to the thread. Never meant to cause anyone discomfort (hence, the present capitalization).

When the critique (with nary a mention of the actual issue) showed up, I became immediately disenchanted by the "lessons" from the intelligentsia. After being apprised to,"use proper capitalization, proper paragraphing, and trim it down to no more than 10-15 lines? Then you're not as likely to end up in the "I'll attempt to plow through all that later" pile.""; I had to LOL!!

Unfortunate fact is that I've had to return, plead or demand (depending) for service/replacements/refunds, on way more products (great & small) than I ever care to re-count. If anyone knows when to take the gloves off & bore a merchant into acquiescing, it would be myself. And if I seemed somewhat insulting to the poor soul, it was intentional- my time is getting too precious (past the middle age point) to keep allowing it to be eaten up. The current state of product fallibility appears to be a consequence of our modern world. Ah well...
I'll let you know how the new oven bottom pans out ;^)
Toodles

I'm down to three burners and Schutte won't respond about the ignitors. Any ideas where I can purchase them?

Thought I'd also mention that I'm a happy Bluestar owner.

My BS experienced issues with a leaky valve. Our experience with Bloodgood was not good, but we pushed and got a resolution. Took a couple of tries, because the service guy wasn't 100% on the ball on searching out leaks. The man who replaced Bloodgood was a good guy to work with, no problems there at all.

We were given an extension of the warranty, and haven't had any further issues so far. We absolutely love the Bluestar and are glad we chose it.

As for repairs, bad service, bad construction of gas ranges? All I know is that for months I read about Viking ignitors being replaced too frequently - I have friends who confirm this was true. After the warranty expired, Viking wasn't much interested in how much $$ those folks with the continual bad injectors were having to pay out of pocket to replace them in a short period of time. It wasn't very impressive customer service, given that there must have been something wrong either design-wise or part-wise for so many to go bad so quickly and consistently.

I read about the Wolf gas ranges with the bad oven design that resulted in major malfunctioning ovens that couldn't be repaired, about repair guys coming out to people's homes multiple times, and Wolf being a bit of a stink about just getting these people new ranges. Have talked to service techs that confirm Wolf gas ranges had a big old oven issue.

And there are stories for other brands too - just relating what I'd heard about the major brands that were on my short list. And what if I tried to pick a gas range based on the number of complaints I've seen, legitimate complaints about the product or the customer service, ie decided only to buy from a company with a perfect record for everything?

I wouldn't have bought one at all. But I did, it had issues, it got fixed, I am in cooking nirvana with this, as is my dh. There was no guarantee that it wouldn't have some issues, or that any other one I picked would be issue free. Yeah, I wish so many manufacturers weren't turning out products with issues that need resolution - it isn't a good way to do business. But that is the world we are in right now - our consumer dollars only entitle us to buy and take our chances.

Nutshell - we are also very happy Bluestar owners.

As to my unit, I will replace the spark re-ignition module myself and pay for the part even though that was a defective part. A reasonable compromise would have been for BS/PP to send me the replacement and the labor would then be on me to install it. BS admitted that they had issues with this module being defective but would not replace the part. You judge if that is reasonable.
As to the ignitors, I am not sure they are defective but they sure have had a short life span on my unit. On those, I will pay for the parts and replace them myself. I asked Schutte how much those were and he did not respond. If I cannot find them elsewhere, I will try asking him for the price once again.

The more one reads about BS customer service issues, the more one gets the feeling that they read like a soap opera.
It shouldn't be that way. I suggested something reasonable (parts schematics, parts pricing, parts ordering, recall updates, etc, available on-line at their web site) to avoid people having to kiss some fellas behind at Bluestar or whine incessantly until they relent. That isn't fair to the company and certainly not fair to consumers.

joniir, a question re the oven banging: would it "pop" when it preheated, after it had been preheating for a while? Or do you mean that the bang is when the flame finally connects? Not to hijack, but my American does that and I'm wondering if it's fixable. It sure is disconcerting. TIA.

Kachinee--It sounds more like Blue Star/ Prizer-Painter is on the verge of going belly-up given that they don't respond to parts requests. Like they don't have the parts & can't get any more.

I've never posted here, but I own a Bluestar 48" range with 6 burners and a griddle and absolutely love it. I purchased it from Eurostoves, and couldn't be happier about that experience. Some minor start-up issues that I had were promptly, courteously and efficiently dealt with by Matt at Bluestar. It was a very personal level of service that was the best I've ever experienced with any high end appliance I've purchased. Incidentally, every appliance I've ever purchased had some minor imperfection that needs to be dealt with one way or another. However, I love my range, it performs beautifully and has made me a better cook! I'm also delighted with the service I've received from Bluestar, which in no way seemed to be going "belly up" in my interactions with them! I've been reading Susan's posts for I-don't-know-how-long and she seems to be waging a destructive and personal vendetta against the company via this site. What a shame, because it's a great product. I swear I'm not affiliated with Bluestar! I just love this range and every single day I'm grateful to my sweet husband for buying it for me!!

ci_lantro;
No, PrizerPainter just runs their customer service through basically one man.
He can choose to handle things whatever way he pleases, including not returning emails. I had a bad history with Bloodgood, who unfortunately, was in his last throes in that job when I had to deal with him.

Unlike others who have had various issues with that company, I made a simple recommendation to them that I think would go a long way toward simplifying their customer service issues. There are people like myself that have the ability to shut off the circuit breaker to the range, note how the old part is wired and installed, remove and replace it. There are others that would hire their own appliance guy to diagnose, and then tell him to come back and install whatever the required part was provided. Either way, the on-line schematics and parts pricing/ordering would simplify repairs.

PP started out selling their ranges pretty much through a handful of primary dealers in the country (Like Eurostoves, Select Appliance,,). They then placed the responsibility on those dealers to set up service calls in other States. It was a fiasco. Even now, there are not many dealers for their products and you have to go through PP and one customer service guy.

The Bluestar range is decent and could improve if they refine it by addressing earlier units like the beta version I purchased. They SHOULD listen to the criticisms, at least those, like the issues I had that are based on my real experience with the unit and the defective/bad parts, sharp edges, loose handles, etc.. The Blue Star customer service (which is what this thread was supposed to be about) in terms of ordering parts and service, is pretty questionable.

kachinee - 2 points:

1. I realize from your posts, you like to tinker and want schematics / parts lists / etc. Did you ever consider the potential liability standpoint from the BS perspective? You are after all dealing with a piece of equipment that if repaired incorrectly, could cause serious damage to you and your home. Sure, you may feel comfortable doing things yourself and taking the risk, but what about the ave. weekend Joe - who might decide to save a buck, use the schematic, make a repair themselves and blow something up.

2. I believe many posts ago in this thread, a dealer offered you 2 ignitors he had in stock for sale - why didn't you just buy them from him. I know you say you want more than 2, but still. Did you ever consider perhaps BS doesn't sell parts directly to consumers - but rather parts are available thru authorized dealers / service repairman. I don't know that to be the case, but it would certainly make sense.

bayberry:
1. As far as blowing something up, my Bluestar was shipped with an internal gas leak. It took me two or three hours to locate it with soap suds. I ended up buying a new length (20") of 1/2" gas pipe and replacing the vertical piece inside the Bluestar which had damaged threads. The COULD have blown the place up.
2. I will deal with any authorized parts/service outlet for parts. However, I prefer to remain anonymous on internet forums.
3. There is no liability for selling parts. I referenced Sears parts only as a suggestion to Prizer-Painter. If you would like to understand how that would work, check out this 36" Kitchen Aid gas range sold at Sears:

The link below is just an example of one schematic and parts list provided on that range.
I am not suggesting Sears is that great, but just that the manner of offering parts and service to consumers is fair.
Had I considered that, I would have considered perhaps one of the IKON, Electrolux, KitcheAid, etc that they carry.
Pro Style Ranges available at Sears
For me, reliability and customer service would trump the 22K burners, one of which has been dead for months. I have used a wok by taking out a burner and that is very cool, but when the thing doesn't work it and it is a pain to get fixed it kinda takes the charm away from the things that would otherwise make it special.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gas range parts on-line

kachinee

1. As not unexpected, you missed the point. But hey, in your world, you don't need to consider liability and service issues. manufacturers do.

2. Then why are you spending all your time moaning about why BS won't sell you parts directly instead of contacting any authorized parts/service outlet. Bottom line is you are looking to do this repair on the cheap. Lets look at the evidence:

You say you need two igniters - and Trevor from Eurostoves posts he can sell you two. Yet you blow him off - and now come up with some lame excuse ahhh - you want to be anonymous.

Then you say, and I quote "I also need a spark ignition module. Bluestar quoted me $96 plus shipping" (umm so much for your contention BS refused to sell you parts)

Then you say "if anyone has a source OTHER THAN Bluestar for parts, please post it. This is a matter of principle to me - yet you continue to rant about BS not being willing to sell you parts. C'mon - make up your mind - which is it - you want to buy from them or you don't?

Finally - back to your desire to do it on the cheap - you say "Blue Star wants $92.63 plus shipping . . . In searching around I found a similar module manufactured by Tytronics and used in other another brands for $59.00 . Do any of the appliance experts here know if this unit will work in the Bluestar? If so, I would rather purchase that for $59 than the one I had problems with for $92.63. "

Seems to me you have been presented multiple solutions - you just don't like any of them and prefer to complain

3. Finally, you do realize that different companies have different business models. if you want mass produced stuff that ou can go to Sears and get parts for, then thats what you should have bought. But companies like BS, Wolf, DCS, American, etc operate in a different market and follow a different business model.

Berryberry et al - those focusing on Kachinee "doing it on the cheap" and the other criticisms, are diverting attention from the real issue, the crux of all these threads -- that is, that he has to do it at all. The real issue, which you are striving to distract from, is (A) that the repairs and replacement parts are needed in the first place for a young machine, and (B) he is not getting help from Bluestar so he is forced to do it on his own. I wrote a post earlier in this thread that I am amazed that Bluestar owners are so complacent with the type of repairs needed on new machines, or even machines that are just over 1 year old.

A range should not need repairs so early in life. That's it in a nutshell.

And for those Bluestar owners whose ranges do not need repairs, I am surprised at how you seem to want to place blame on those owners whose ranges do need the repairs. Do you think those BS owners somehow did something to break their ranges on purpose? Why aren't you kinder? Why aren't you saying to people who have problematic BS's, "Gee that's too bad. It's a shame that BS isn't helping you. It's terrible that you can't cook for your family properly on your range." I just don't get how BS owners are so fanatical and so intolerant about hearing others' problems. Have some empathy for goodness sakes, even if your BS is fine.

Shannon, I've had the exact same thought ... somehow, the person with the complaint has either an agenda or is a troll or is otherwise out to sully a perfectly good BlueStar's perfectly good name. There is no possibility that anyone's BS could possibly be anything less than startlingly perfect and that anyone's experience with the product could be anything different than their own fortunately good one.

The best I could come up with was that this is a compensation mechanism - BS doesn't (yet) have the name recognition of a Wolf or a DCS or whatever ... and this niggles at the back of the mind of some of the more insecure Bluestar owners. Hence the excessive noise, vitriol and powder-crackling indignation when someone has something less than adulatory to say about Bluestar. (High-school anyone?!)

That was the best I can come up with because this reaction simply doesn't make any sense.

First, it is not unique to BS to need repairs early on...Wolf is recalling ranges, my Miele DW was missing a piece, etc. If I recall right Susan had a problem with many of her appliances...not just BS. If you walk around my neighborhood...home of many new, highend kitchens with Wolf, Miele, Subzero, etc...you will see on a daily, yes daily basis appliance repair trucks. Why are they there if these appliances are all in working order? It's no surprise that things aren't made like they used to be...from cars to TVs to appliances. Now that being said, the bigger issue is can you get someone to repair the appliance? That is where I question some of these comments against BS. My own experience and that of others here don't seem to jive with those who can't get service. My minor issues with my BS have been quickly, easily and courteously taken care of. Parts have immediately been dispatched and service appointments made and kept. 100% satisfaction. I feel sorry for those who say they haven't had that experience, but I will say that I do scratch my head about them, because they just don't jive with my experience.

Shannon - I guess you haven't followed this thread closely enough to say B) he is not getting help from Bluestar so he is forced to do it on his own.

Did you see where he admitted Bluestar offered to ship him an ignitor unit for $92.63.

Did you see where he admitted his range is out of warranty?

Did you see where he was looking to do the repair himself, rather than calling an authorized serviceperson or where he rants on about how he can't get two ignitors, and when Trevor offers to sell him two, he balks.

Seems like he just likes to complain.

Look, I have no issue with anyone who has a legitimate complaint against BS or any other vendor / manufacturer. usually I will support them. But it seems some people here have their own agenda and are never satisfied.

As to quality issues, should any new appliance break in a short period of time? No but it happens. I had a GE microwave that died after 15 months. Do you see me hear whining and crying about how GE won't fix it? Stuff happens. Am I happy about it - no but nothing is perfect. You have to look at the overall body of evidence before drawing a conclusion - and it seems to me that the overall body of evidence re: BS is quite positive.

Personally, I think some folks have taken to using this board (since they know BS gets a lot of favorable PR here) as a way to advance their own personal vendetta and try to force BS into caving into their demands. You know - the "I will show them, I will publically blast them, facts be damned " attitude.

that rubs me the wrong way - and perhaps does the same to others which is why you probably see the type of responses you and mindstorm are questioning.

I made what I believe to be a very constructive suggestion to Bluestar which could potentially expedite and simplify parts ordering and service for all Bluestar owners. You suggested there could be liability for the manufacturer by selling parts so instead of challenging that, I posted a very specific example of how Sears handles similar parts ordering and pricing for consumers. This was at worst constructive criticism if not a helpful suggestion.

I never stated that I was not quoted a price on the Invensys spark re-ignition unit. Please my friend, that part was replaced twice in two years by appliance repair services. I now feel confident in replacing it a third time myself after having watched that very simple replacement done on two occasions.

I expressed my disappointment that Bluestar did not offer a replacement for that defective product despite being outside the one year warranty. They did not "cave" to my request nor did I ask them to after posting this. However, it is my prerogative to mention their position on this defective part and it is relevant because others have had the same issue.

I was also concerned about using another Invensys unit and paying Bluestar $30 or so more than a competitive model that is used in other ranges like Viking, etc. Therefore I simply asked if anyone knew if that manufacturer's model (Tytronics) would work. Certainly looking for a replacement part that might last longer than the Invensys unit and be available at a better price is not unreasonable.

Regarding the ignitors, they install with one Phillips screw and a push in/pull out wire connection. Yes, I would like to have a source for these and other parts and a published price list. I always like to get more than one price. The idea that people across the country have to dial up one man at Bluestar for parts seems rather provincial, but that's the way they do it.

I appreciate the offer from Mr. Lawson but I did not even purchase my stove from that gentleman and he does not have all that I would need. I will purchase those from wherever I can get them at the best published price. As to why I have had several of the ceramic ignitors develop hairline cracks, I have no idea.

I do not apologize for saying what I have or trying to fix this thing on my own to save a few bucks. I am not the type with the attitude you mention. Trust me Berry, this is not a vendetta. If I really wanted to go after BS like a maniac I would not make friendly suggestions for their customer service. Instead, I would demand that they send someone to fix my range.

I have not only worked with Bluestar to try to keep my range in working order, but I have also repaired a gas leak, cut back sharp sheet metal, taped sharp edges with metal tape, etc. on my own. I intend to get parts now and fix the thing before Thanksgiving when I will need all the burners working.

Kachinee - ok, ltes take this point by point:

I made what I believe to be a very constructive suggestion to Bluestar which could potentially expedite and simplify parts ordering and service for all Bluestar owners.

And yet you seem to be missing the point that different companies have different business models. Bluestar, like most other high end range manufacturers, is not Sears where you can just go buy parts online. They have chosen to have follow a model using authorized service people who distribute the parts. You don't like that model. Oh well. You need to get over it. I am sure Bluestar and other high end manufacturers have people better qualified in place to run their business than you.

I never stated that I was not quoted a price on the Invensys spark re-ignition unit.

Well you either better re-read the thread and some of your claims, or correct your writing style, since if you look at ci lantro's and shannon's posts, they think Bluestar has refused to help you by selling you parts

I expressed my disappointment that Bluestar did not offer a replacement for that defective product despite being outside the one year warranty.

I am sure you were disappointed but you do understand being outside the warranty, don't you?

Well when you are dealing with a piece of equipment that could pose a flammable / explosive risk if not repaired correctly, looking to replace a part with a cheaper one, not designed for the specific range is IMO cheap and foolhardy.

Ahhh, but you are wrong. You can get parts supplied by local authorized repairmen. The issue is you don't want to pay them. As I stated above, not every company operates like a mass manufacturer and sells parts online like you would prefer. If you wanted a range where you could buy parts online for, you should have stuck with a lower end mass produced GE model

This is a major case of mis-direction on your part. Just because you didn't purchase your range from Mr. Lawson means you won't purchase parts from him? Puh-leeze. You are here ranting about the unavailability of parts online - from companies you likely never heard of and who (just like Mr. Lawson) you never bought your range from. So let me get this right - you won't buy from Mr. Lawson because you did not buy your range from him - but you will buy from some anonymous internet retailer if one existed with a published price list. Again, more evidence you just like to complain and do any repair on the cheap.

I do not apologize for saying what I have or trying to fix this thing on my own to save a few bucks.

Could it be any clearer in the above statement? Bottom line is you want to fix your range on the cheap and are unhappy Bluestar's business model does not facilitate your efforts. End of story

Part of the appeal of Bluestar is the fact that is is "uncomplicated". NO massive electronics, and simple, easily replaced "generic" components. A "high end" range for "average folks". At least, that's some of the spin of the marketing.

I say this because I'm a DIYer. As are MANY folks on this board. There is NO shame in wanting to repair an appliance yourself, as long as you have the proper knowledge and tools to do so. To imply that just because someone bought a "pro" style range, they should always pay for service or they are "cheaping out" is insulting. Especially when considering the simple nature of some of the repairs being discussed.

This is one of the reasons that I initially questioned Susan about receiving poor quality service when such a simple replacement is easily DIYd. Why WOULDN'T you do a 5 minute repair that only requires a screwdriver yourself? Especially if you'd received poor quality service from the authorized service dealer before? No one is required to use the "auhorized" service provider unless the service work is being done under warranty with the manufacturer picking up the parts and labor tab. You are always free to pick and choose whomever you desire to work on your appliance---on your own nickel, of course.

Gas ranges as a whole are some of the most simple appliances anyone can ever own. There must be a massive amount of undereducation on simple diagnostic principals in the appliance repair trade these days. Seems it's easier to just teach techs to switch out parts until things work again rather than the actual method by which the appliance works and diagnostic techniques of repair. However, that's an universal complaint against repair techs of all makes and models of appliances these days. It isn't exclusive to Bluestar, Viking, Wolf, or any other brand of appliance being fixed by a parts changer instead of a real repair tech. I wish I had a solution to that particular issue, but I don't. It's hard enough for a local consumer to find a good repair tech, much less a manufacturer located thousands of miles away. Since most local dealers do not have in house service folks anymore, it's getting harder and harder to find anyone who is well informed about the wide variety of products available today. It's like how being a vet is in many ways much more difficult than being a MD. You have to know all about parakeets, and hamsters, and elephants, and hedgehogs---as well as the more common dogs and cats! That's a lot harder than just learning about one single type of anatomy! Good repair techs don't have it easy. They aren't compensated all that well, and their bosses don't want to take the time for them to receive training because that could be spent in the field---changing out parts and moving on to another call.

This is yet another reason many people prefer to DIY simple repairs. Castigating someone for that choice diverts attention from some very real issues----and not just for Bluestar. This is an industry wide issue in many ways. When I complained about the quality level of the Maytag washers as compared to the old workhorses, I was told by my Maytag rep (retired when Whirlpool took over) that they could make a washer as reliable as the ones that lasted 25 years, but they'd have to charge $900 for it. No one would pay that for a "simple" toploader. So, appliances have gotten cheaper and less reliable.

Even paying a premium for "pro" style doesn't get you any more reliability. And, ultimately, that's what this is all about. People have the mistaken idea that paying more money gets you "better quality". It does not. What it gets you is better performance. The reliability is still on the level of every other cheaper maker. In some cases, it's worse. More performace usually equals more complexity, and higher repair costs. Just ask any Ferrari owner. But, any Ferrari owner would tell you that the expense and unreliaibility is worth it when everything works right! It's the same with "pro" appliances. They aren't Hondas or Toyotas. They're Mclarens. Ferraris. Aston Martins. Porches. Maseratis. Etc. The trouble is, people want a Ferrari experience with Honda reliability. That's kinda what Bluestar marketed themselves as being, and that's why the enthusiasm for their product. Unless you are the one having a Ferrari experience and not the HOnda experience.

I'll add my experience as one more data point to the discussion. I recently had the spark module replaced on my 3 year old RNB30. Having read other customers' experiences here, I made the decision to not contest the warranty issue with Prizer. The final cost of the repair was about $250, including the service company's labor and their 20% mark-up on the cost of the part. I continue to enjoy the range as a cooking tool, but it is unfortunate that Prizer has chosen to take a narrow view of their obligations. In the long run the damage to their reputation will surely cost them more than if they had chosen to extend the warranty on a part that clearly has an unacceptably high failure rate.

live wire oak - let me clarify as I think you are misinterpreting my post. I am not castigating kachinee for wanting to do the repair himself. What I am castigating him on is, even after Bluestar offered to sell him the ignitor unit for $92.63, and Trevor offered to ship him two ignitors, that he turned them down and then went on to moan about Bluestar's business model and other assorted issues.

My point is kachinee has had several opportunities to purchse parts and do the repair himself if he so desires. I am sure he also can contact his local authorized repairman and buy parts directly from them (I know I can).

His whole point seems to be that Bluestar should make their parts available online to a myriad of unnamed internet vendors who will sell it to him cheaper than what others are charging. Hey, everyone likes to save a buck - but kachinee has to realize that is not the business model BS, WOlf, DCS, and others follow.

To continue to berate the point is disingenuous and desrves being castigated for

Berryberry said:

"To continue to berate the point is disingenuous and desrves being castigated for"
------------
Ouch.
OK Berry, you hammered me pretty good so leave it at that.
"No mas" from this corner.

Our 36" RNB has been utterly boring by comparison. It. just. works.

FWIW, I suspect that cracked igniters are possibly the result of overzealous/overfrequent cleaning. The cracks in kachinee's picture above could've happened from pushing/bumping the exposed end of the igniter. I think that's a potential problem in any of the ranges that are using these.

My DW and I fall at different ends of the spectrum- I believe in sweat equity, and she believes in the overwhelming value of her time. Both are relevant here- I'm sure you can find someone to sell you the parts, even if it takes multiple sources to get everything. But at some point, just get over the semantics, pick a direction to get it fixed, and get on with life. This argument has pretty much passed the point of diminishing returns.

The problem I have with Susan's diatribes are that she's now gone out and cut/pasted them all over the net. At least Chowhound had the sense to pull her lone post there. It just strikes me as way overboard, and, if you believe her, probably spending half that time just trying to get the problem fixed would've already gotten you there. I'm not surprised she's on vacation to Disney as a result of posting the same stuff here every few days.

More cooking. Less posting.

In the interest of full Disclosure: I am reporting my own experiences with Bluestar on the other recently started thread about the company being on life support. As I have reported over there: so far so good.

If in the end I am not happy, I will buy a Viking.

I'm trying to decide on a simple mechanical gas range and am looking at BlueStar and Bertazzoni. Granted they don't have the same features and the BlueStar has more BTUs and a bigger oven, but I'm concerned with which is less repair prone. Any thoughts about the two in comparison? I'm in a major city, so service repair should not be a problem. I just don't want to have to call anyone after spending that much money!

jcw5, FWIW, we have been thrilled our Bluestar from a performance to fit and finish to service. No complaints. We purchased our BS sight unseen from Eurostoves based on reviews on GW on both BS and Eurostoves and have not regreted it for a minute. The brute power of the 22K burners is incredible and well worth the coin. The BS broiler is killer and the gas ovens are as good as I have ever experienced.

Happy shopping!

I suspect that cracked igniters are possibly the result of overzealous/overfrequent cleaning. The cracks ...could've happened from pushing/bumping the exposed end of the igniter.

Thull:
That is not the case. First, the igniters are well below the cooking surface so know, they are never pushed or bumped. There are no chips from impact, and that is why I posted the picture of the hairline crack.
I also do not understand your explanation of overzealous cleaning causing hairline cracks in the ceramic igniters.

No, this, like the issue regarding the Invensys six point spark re-ignition module, this has been a legitimate issue on the Bluestars. A recent post on another Blue Star thread here mentions yet another bad spark re-ignition module which went bad after one year. The ceramic igniters on the ~older~ units (2.5 + years old) may have been substandard or perhaps they get them from another source now. Who knows, but I have read about others who have replaced multiple igniters in the first two years of Bluestar ownership.

I am not telling anyone to not purchase a Bluestar, but I am a bit miffed as to why anyone would go after people for reporting defective or unreliable parts or for asking for sources and for suggestions on purchasing alternative replacement parts.

I have posted at the tractor forum where one can ask how to repair something and get a knowledgeable person to answer without questioning your motives. My motive with the BS it is simple. I purchased a very expensive and unreliable appliance that I want to repair myself. I want to avoid having to waste time and money to have an appliance guy diagnose and repair it once again. If I do it myself, I don't have to take off work to meet a guy here twice (once to diagnose and order parts, and then again to repair) and I save some money.

Also, if there are more reliable replacement parts (like the re-ignitor module I found) or a ceramic ignitor that does not develop cracks as easily, I want to know. I have had two bad Invensys spark re-ignition modules, so yes, I am reticent about purchasing another one before determining if there is a more reliable replacement part.

kachinee- I don't see anything I wrote that questioned your motives.

I stick by what I said. Some folks are much fussier about cleaning than we are. If you're removing the burner rings/bowls often and cleaning the burners, you could easily push up against an igniter. And the ceramic is fragile. The single crack in the photo you posted could easily be from trying to bend the ceramic (like snapping a piece of chalk). Thus the observation.

I didn't say that's what happened to your range. It's just a possibility. And the part is similar on many gas ranges.

I have no idea about the igniters. Glad I haven't needed to replace one. My range sat around for at least 6 mo. before being installed, so it's ~3 years old. I think the defective igniter batch dates to before that, and it was a common problem among several brands.

thull,

My Viking had the same problem. Bad ignitors and an oven thermostat that had a mind all its own. Temperatures were all over the place. Broiler was so-so. Water took over 20 minutes to boil, the burner grates looked like 10 years old after only a few weeks of use. Customer service was completely non-existent. The whole thing was a big disappointment, through and through.

It amazes me that this problem with the ignitors is so widespread. No doubt more Made-in-China junk is to blame. Looking back on the whole experience, I feel stupid to have wasted that kind of money in the first place. I could have bought a good used vehicle for the price I paid for the stupid range.

Good luck....

It amazes me that this problem with the ignitors is so widespread. No doubt more Made-in-China junk is to blame.... I could have bought a good used vehicle for the price I paid for the stupid range.

Bruce - Foreign parts do not always reduce quality, but maybe cheap foreign parts do. That is a larger issue than broken re-ignition modules and igniters but it made me think of an experience I had last week looking through a 40 year old house that my wife's sister is thinking of purchasing. The kitchen was in good shape and had the original stove and cooktop. It was a "Chambers." I tried the gas burners and every one lit like clockwork. I looked at the wife and said, "Hey, it works,,,,, which is more that we can say about the 5 thousand dollar gourmet machine in our kitchen". Her sister smiled but the wife was not too happy about my observation in front of her.

``The kitchen was in good shape and had the original stove and cooktop. It was a "Chambers." I tried the gas burners and every one lit like clockwork. I looked at the wife and said, "Hey, it works,,,,, which is more that we can say about the 5 thousand dollar gourmet machine in our kitchen". Her sister smiled but the wife was not too happy about my observation in front of her".

You said it all. I grew up cooking with gas, but somewhere, somehow, something went horribly wrong. The stuff they are passing off today is nothing but cheap junk IMO. Too many foreign parts, bad electronics, shoddy workmanship, and what they call "stainless steel" is actually nothing but anodized aluminum.

Consumer Reports advised its readers that, unless they were absolutely hell-bent on spending thousands of dollars, to steer well clear of the "pro" stuff. My own experience, and that of countless others, can confirm this. My neighbour recently bought a Fisher & Paykel dishwasher that has since had three service calls. This was a $1500 machine that doesn't clean any better than my 8yr old $500 Maytag that has never needed servicing...

NOTHING is made like it used to be. Today, it's quantity over quality.

Bruce, you fail to understand that when people remodel any room in their house, it's usually because they don't like the way it looks. Many people buy professional ranges because they like the way they look in their kitchen. I want to cook on a great machine but I will admit that I'd cook on a lesser machine if I liked the way it looked. The same holds true for furniture--we'd all own Lazy Boy recliners if all we cared about was comfort. Aesthetics matter.
You can say the same thing about a Porsche. Most people aren't taking them to the track; it doesn't mean that they shouldn't buy one just because a cheaper car would be more practical for their use.

Just to reiterate- we have had zero problems with our 36" RNB over 2.5 years. It cooks like crazy and we've definitely upped our game considerably over our old smoothtop electric. Wok in particular.

I re-read kachinee's posts about the sharp sheet metal. I went and pulled out the front center burner ring and bowl to look. We have the same cutouts and sharp points. But I'd have to dump a whole pot of spaghetti sauce or the like to even think about needing to clean in there. Even when I've run all the rings/bowls in the dishwasher, none of that even had anything on it for me to feel the need to clean it.

To me, that falls in the category of "messing around under the hood," where I've managed to cut myself whether it's on the microwave, fridge, dishwasher, etc. I don't complain about there being sharp edges in places that I'm only going to need to get to when something goes wrong. Examples- hooking up exhaust kit and installing GE MW in cabinet; replacing KA fridge water solenoid valve (underneath and behind); mounting/hooking up KA DW.

I did a little bit of hunting for igniter modules. Assuming you'd just replace w/ the same model and live with it, I found 2 likely sources in ATL. Both Johnstone Supply and Fox Appliance Parts are listed as dealers for the Invensys range of cooking parts. I didn't call, but I suspect you'd be able to order the part if they didn't have it in stock. So, I'm relatively comfortable about keeping my out-of-warranty range running. If the problem was recurrent, like kachinee's, I'd at least look at the wiring runs to make sure there wasn't an insulation/grounding/heat problem along the way.

That's not something I'd live with on a new range, but if it was bought pre White Glove and had worked through the duration of the warranty, well that's sort of what you have to live with.

wolfgang- LOL!!! I would swear that was a dig against LA-Z-BOY LOL!!!! You are 100% right tho. I hate the way they look, and would never buy one cause of that. And you are right that at least a good majority of renovations are done for aesthetics. There are some cases where a space absolutely is no longer working and needs reno's, but many times it is for appearance, and professional ranges look great(I think). I love the poster here a little bit back that admitted that she bought her Wolf for bling!! lol..that takes guts :)

thull - I agree with your comments 100%, especially the myth (or exaggeration)of sharp edges on a BS. The only place you are in danger of sharp edges is, as you say, under the hood so to speak. I have to say that my previous range, a Wolf, was exactly the same and so have been both my previous and current vent hood. Once you get behind the working surfaces, the edges are not polished or even ground down. Don;t even try to remove and replace the baffles in a Wolf or Prestige vent hood w/o gloves unless you enjoy getting cut up and in some cases, badly. A few minutes and effort with a piece of emory cloth would remedy that but I just use gloves when necesary which is not often.

As with you, my Bluestar has performed famously, mine for a year now. I guess I would encourage BS to work on the drip tray set up and finish, it could be better but then no one comes in and says anything about my drip trays.

As to parts, I fried an ignition module at my own doing when I first got my range. It was clearly user error for not reconnecting the ignitor lead coupling after removing a burner (just inspecting and marveling at the parts and set up). I called BS and they insisted that what I did should not have damaged the module and sent me 2 replacements for good measure. It only took about 30 minutes to replace and I now have a spare JIC.

bruce, gas really is the same as it used to be but only better in my experience over the years especially with regard to high end residential products. It seems that you had a very bad experience with a previous product,as I understand it,a Viking. If I had paid 5K for a complete disaster that I yanked out and threw in the dump with no hope for relief monetarily, I am SURE I too would be on a mission to exact as much grief on that produnct where ever I could. Nonetheless, there are many who continue to love their gas ranges. That said, I am completely intrigued with induction and labored over the design and final selection and direction for the main cooking appliances in our recent build. In the end, I chickened out and went with the tried and proven gas for me. I do agree that induction has a tremendous following and likely for good reasons. As for smooth tops as you refer to them, if I interpret correctly, I used some of these many years ago and they left me with the same impression that you have of gas, an impression I cannot get over although I am sure they have improved dramatically. For me the experience was so bad, I just could not own one from a performance perspective or the gastly look after heavy use. To each their own, right?

thull:
Thanks for looking for parts but those two companies do not carry parts for Blue Star. They do not have either the Invensys 6 point module or the ceramic ignitor electrodes.

As far as cleaning the Bluestar, grease and crumbs do find their way in nooks and crannies under the open burners on the burner bracing and beyond the sides and back of the drip tray. It can be treacherous to your hands cleaning around sharp sheet metal and ends of sheet metal screws sticking out everywhere.
If I get a chance, perhaps on a new thread, I will post some images that show exactly what I am talking about.

Viking issued a recall of the EXACT Invensys 6 point spark ignition module. I do not believe Blue Star bothered, or at least I never received any notice of recall prior to having 2 defective units.
Getting into this further, both of the spark modules I have are dated AFTER the date of the Viking recall, which makes me wonder whether or not this issues was resolved with that Viking/Blue Star supplier, or how reliable the date on the recall is. Blue Star claims that they have not had problems with later dated units but that is contrary to my experience as well as others, including someone who recently posted here about another defective igniter.
I have both defective igniters including the one that just keeps on clicking and clicking..
The Cooking gift that keeps on clicking

I also found that Viking replaced that supplier with another manufacturer (Tytronics) in at least some of their ranges, but I am not sure if the problem with the Invensys is the reason why.

Meanwhile, I note that the Invensys part is available on line for $40 less than Blue Star wants for it (thanks but no thanks to Blue Star for trying to profit an additional $40 on this).
Invensys part $40 less than Blue Star wants for it
That is another reason I would like an independent price on the ceramic igniters.

Pricing aside, I now wonder whether I should use that Invensys unit again after having two defective units dated after the recall.
I hope this information is useful to others who have had or will have this issue with their Blue Star or Viking.

Here is a link that might be useful: Defective Invensys Spark module Recall by Viking

"the myth (or exaggeration)of sharp edges on a BS"
Thull has already verified "the same cutouts and sharp points" I mentioned (That was where I got cut badly because I did not see it when reaching in to remove the front center burner). "Messing under the hood" to some extent is required beause of the open burner design. As an example, you have to take out the burner assembly to clean the sheet metal bracket under them. That bracket has sharp edges and is attached with pointed sheet metal screws. The points of sheet metal screws protrude out everywhere. Grease and crumbs will get into the back area and sides beyond the drip tray. You cannot clean the unit of grease without exposing yourself to sharp metal edges, screw points, and areas like the center burner cut-outs or the piece of sheet metal that they put (for some unknown reason) around the 1/2" gas pipe as it exits the gas valve. If you want to just let the thing accumulate grease, fine, but that thing will get the old grease smell after a while and force you to clean it.

As far as the ceramic igniter electrodes, I am not overzealous in cleaning them, but you do have to clean them if you want the unit to light properly. The design of them has a space around the electrode inside the ceramic insulator that accumulates grease.... like every other part on a stove. Yes, you have to be reasonable careful, but I use a sponge with Dawn detergent, not a drill bit. That's overzealous?

In researching to find replacement igniters I discovered that other companies also used an igniter of similar design. However, for some reason.... at least one of those manufacturers switched the igniters on all of their units to a new design in 2001..and called for igniters on existing units in the field to be replaced with a kit of six re-designed igniters. (see linke below) That is what a manufacturer should do when they sell an expensive range that has had repeated problems with a part. Good companies stand behind their product and stand behind their customers in a reasonable manner. Thus, if there are defective and/or unacceptably unreliable parts admit to it and issue a recall. I guess the idea that the customer is always right is long gone.
As far as those here that have parsed through my posts like I am some agent for a competitive manufacturer or am shorting stock in Prizer Painter...please. What is the point? Helping them sell more units without addressing common complaints and defective parts? Letting them get away with screwing up sheet metal with unfinished edges and points of sheet metal screws everywhere? I know some here would never go "under the hood" of their vehicle, but let me tell you, no car I have ever seen has sharp screws and sheet metal edges like the Blue Star does.

Here is a link that might be useful: Recall on igniters

Maybe a pair of rubber gloves and an old toothbrush would be in order for cleaning the underside of the inside of the range top.

Really I can cut myself easier on a piece of paper than the insides of this stove - where hands were never intended to be. But you know, if you must, and I gather that you do, just wear gloves. And try the toothbrush- it isn't bothered by the ends of screws and metal edges.

I think this thread has made the rounds of ridiculousness that are typical of any anti-Bluestar thread. We should all know by now that there are arguments that won't be won: Debates on cleanability, fit and finish, customer service experiences, etc. But for those of you still reading this thread for some reason, I think there is one really important point being made recently by kachinee:

Is it true that Bluestar's ignitors are the same ones that Viking used, then accepted as flawed, discontinued use of in new models, and issued a recall for in old models, way back when in 2001?

It seems that if you look hard enough you'll find someone that had an ignitor problem with every brand out there. But no one who has been reading this forum for a while can objectively deny that Bluestar gets more comments about failed ignitors than all other brands combined. So my question is, if kachinee's claims are legit, what gives?

I recall on another thread Trevor Lawson saying something to the effect of, "Bluestar is a great range for the right customer." I understand what he means, and I have long thought I might be that right kind of customer. But somehow I figured that changing an ignitor is like changing a $5 spark plug. I don't mind tinkering once in a while, in fact I enjoy it. But if this is going to be a $96 normal service item, then I think I can finally say "no thank you" and stop reading Bluestar threads.

I hope that someone can knowledgably (as opposed to anecdotally) respond to this issue.

ya think:
What about the issue of the Invensys Spark ignitor module....the exact model that was used in Viking and for which they issued the recall I cited? Unlike Viking, Blue Star never issued a recall. Why? Now they do not agree to replace them after one year. Why? That is contrary to what most companies do when they use defective parts. Further, the same part that was recalled by Viking and used by Blue Star is STILL proving unreliable even after the recall and manufacturing date. The replacement that Blue Star provided to me failed within a few months. BOTH of the failed units are dated after the date cited in Viking's recall.

As far as the ceramic igniter electrodes, I agree with you that if they are relatively inexpensive ($10 or less) and readily available I will keep changing them like spark plugs. The point there was that one should not have to make a call to Matt Schutte to get a price and shipping cost to buy spark plugs. Prizer Painter has a website where they can allow people to order replacement parts. This seemed like a simple solution to me.

There are sharp sheet metal edges and sharp ends of screws under the grates and burners. That is also a fact. OK use leather gloves and tooth brushes, but don't deny that the those area have to be cleaned periodically. The assertion that one never has to remove the burner assemblies to clean the supporting brackets and other areas of grease is false, and anyone who has had a Blue Star for a while knows that.

This is NOT in the category of the Susanandmark rants whatsoever and has nothing to do with Trevor, who has done nothing but try to be a good business man and loyal supplier of this manufacturer. Same goes for the company that sold me mine.

If you think any of this is bull, let's leave the sharp edges/sheet metal screw ends issue aside and respond to the defective, non-recalled Invensys ignitor module issue and the unreliable ceramic igniters. Specifically, I want to know if improved parts are available because I have lost confidence in the reliability and longevity of the igniter electrodes and in the Invensys spark ignition module.

"Specifically, I want to know if improved parts are available because I have lost confidence in the reliability and longevity of the igniter electrodes and in the Invensys spark ignition module".

I've lost confidence in most consumer goods today. I'm very disheartened that we've become such a throw-away society that even spending thousands of dollars for a product doesn't guarantee any further reliability/longevity than buying el-cheapo stuff.

FWIW, my NG barbecue suffered a bad spark module exactly ONE year after purchase. The cost of a new ignitor was ridiculous so I just a use match now(much like I resigned to doing with my old Viking)..

Folks, the message here is very simple. Stuff today is NOT built like it used to be. Everything from home appliances to electronics. It's all planned obsolescence today.

"I'm very disheartened that we've become such a throw-away society that even spending thousands of dollars for a product doesn't guarantee any further reliability/longevity than buying el-cheapo stuff."

Don't knock the el-cheapo stuff. A friend bought a $469 Hotpoint range with no electronics. It has worked perfectly from day one.

LOL! Nope, I wasn't knocking that stuff at all. I fully agree with you. My $500 Maytag dishwasher puts my neighbours $1500 Fisher & Paykel machine to shame...

Sorry flyleft,
Was traveling & only able to quickly check email (not the thread). The oven is on for some time, baking away, when suddenly, BANG!!! Like a gunshot, only once. According to the Bluestar tech, the flame is too high (in the orange) causing the metal to buckle & lose temper. So even adjusting the flame alone will not help, one must replace the oven bottom due to loss of temper (it will continue to bang when heated up) You could check with the manufacturer on their policy. if purchased by gold or platinum cc, even if you are slightly out of warranty, the cc extends warranty coverage up to 2 years...

joniir - I recently bought a BS, sight unseen, from what I heard on this forum. My larger oven also made/makes these banging sounds, scared me half to death, thought something might blow up! I called BS on this and they told me not to worry, this is normal with contracting and expanding when it heats and that this should lessen over time....I've never had a pro-style range and thought that maybe this is just normal, didn't really question, thought that it would have to be something that I'd have to get used to... We are in the middle of renovation right now and I haven't used the larger oven for at least a month now so almost forgot about it till coming across this post. Do I understand correctly, yours no longer bangs with the bottom being replaced? Confused and what I should do??

lovetocook call BlueStar and insist on a replacement oven floor, I did got it and nor longer have the big bang when the floor starts to cool down

Hi lovetocook,
Interestingly, I also bought my Bluestar as a result of this forums discussions...

I just attempted today to install my new oven bottom & thereupon got a really good look at the inside, once I'd removed the old bottom. I found that it might have a bit more to it than that the flame was simply too high. Subsequently, I am in email discussion with Bluestar (at least from my side, not having had response from Bluestar as yet).

To the credit of Eurostoves Trevor, whom I purchased through; he has also emailed Bluestar on my behalf to try to sort the whole thing out. Here is some of the email I sent to Bluestar:
"I've just now adjusted the burner & was about to place the new bottom when I noticed that the back of the oven has a thin metal shelf (bracket) that appears to stabilize the bottom. This thin bracket is bent in a melt-y looking fashion at the center (left-ish), & there are flame "stains" on the actual back of the oven that lead up to that spot. I am now wondering if the flame is going to places that it should not.

I also found quite a few random hardware bits lying about in there that have no obvious relevance to anything. They are rather hard to describe, little round items that may be a tiny screw or bolt, among other little round donut shaped items. all are without anchors to anything at all, just lying about on the floor of the oven.

Upon further investigation, I realize they are, in fact little screw/bolts that are normally found on the bottom of the oven bottom, itself. There are numerous ones on both the front & back of the unit that secure the underside metal sheet to it.

At least 3 of them have melted/twisted off the back end of the oven bottom (where the flame "stains" had been licking) & were either in between the 2 metal pieces, or on the stove floor.

Please advise as to what is to be done about this. I fear that replacing the old oven bottom with the new will simply result in a repetition of the problem & more melted bits of hardware & probable banging, gun shot-like, behavior. I am assuming that the flame should not be licking up the back of the oven & heating the hardware so that they melt/twist off. I would be happy to forward one to you for examination."

Although my issue may be an isolated case, it is easy enough to check it out in your oven once the bottom is removed. Just look around in there & see if all looks intact & no random bits. If it seems okay, it probably is & just needs the bottom replacement & flame adjustment.

Best of luck.

Guadulupe - thanks, I'm supposing that this is not normal : )

Joniir - Thank you for the input. I'm anxious to get my kitchen renovation complete so that I can take care of these issues. The techs haven't come out as of yet for the once over for our white glove warrenty. I'm hoping they are competent with the BS - (as of yet they don't sell the BS in our area but the repair place works on other pro-style ranges (wolf, viking, thermador, etc., in our area) I have a few other issues going on with the range but was thinking mostly needed fine tuning that they'll take care of when they are here...
I'm curious, does your oven get hot on the sides? Again, I don't know what to expect never owning a pro-style but it seems to get quite hot...

Please keep me informed of your situation.

-intermittent ignitor
-the units fan blows out the gas line flame, thus creating a high excess of co that vents right out of the top of the stove. only when you turn on the convection does this happen.

I like the stove otherwise but would like to solve these problems. What should I tell the tech when he arrives on Friday?

Thanks

Question: Can I turn up the overall heat in my BS oven? The dial temps are high by about 50 degrees, with a top temp that can barely bake bread. I've called and emailed BS but gotten no response. I'd happily do it myself. I'm in no mood for a warranty fight. The 30" range is only about three months old.

Thanks!

Westcoastcook, you shouldn't have a warrenty fight- you're still covered, and I would recommend giving the warranty a try. However, if you want a copy of the service manual, which includes the way to test the oven temp and recalibrate the thermostat if needed, email me through my page and I'll send you a copy.

I've had my Bluestar 36", 6-burner RNB installed about a week and I must report that I am absolutely thrilled. The range cooks better than anything I have used before, and the top is a breeze to clean. After reading Bluestar posts recently, I fully expected to be lacerated by sheet metal, burned by the oven door, killed by a gas leak, alarmed by gunshot-like noises, or driven batty by non-functioning igniters. Okay, now that I've written this, my BS will probably collapse into a heap of junk metal on the kitchen floor. But I hope not, because after 10 years of a crummy Jennair downdraft, I've got my cooking mojo back.

So far so good on customer service-- Matt Schute rapidly responded to my call about White Glove service.

Okay - I've been lurking for a while and here's my story... I have a 2 yr old RNB30. My husband and I have really enjoyed cooking on it. We had a burner that decided to stop igniting, and for some reason it's fine now. Most recently though we had a cracked (different) igniter, we also had the thing where the other burner igniters will click when the front right one is on low, and my broiler would start with a boom (yikes!). So I sent in a service request to Bluestar. Within a couple of hours Matthew Schutte emailed me back with the name of a service company and the part number for the igniter. The service guy came out, replaced the broiler igniter, showed me how easy it is to replace the burner igniter, and showed me where the ignition module is. Of course while he was here the igniters that usually fire when the front burner is on low stopped doing that!! Anyways when I requested the burner igniter from Bluestar, once again within a couple of hours I had an email from Matthew that said he was sending one out to me "gratis"! So I know it's only a $21 part but that's great service and the tech they recommended was fantastic. I don't know if my igniters will start getting wacky again, but I do know that I can rely on Bluestar to help me with that as well.

Morton & ajnolff... thanks for your positive reviews! Whew...

We recently ordered a BlueStar range! Can't wait to get it!

This update is being brought to you entirely to give all those considering the purchase of a Blue Star Range something even more to consider.

My original postings found above are long & arduous; as has been the continuing saga of my "banging oven"; and this post, shall be. Having complained for over a year & a half from the very beginning of purchase, and their original service dept. man, Pete, long gone, I had to brow beat the current Blue Star service dept. into sending me a new oven bottom; as by this time it was out of warranty. Then subsequently, I had to demand an oven heating element, once I noticed the melted bracket on the oven back as I went to replace the bottom; and the twisted, melted off rivets on the old bottom. In fairness to Blue Star, they did finally go along with it.

After all that, I had the unpleasant discovery that the oven still banged like a gunshot every time I used it. The only possible unchanged piece of hardware in this sequence of events was the oven back (with the melted bracket welded on it).

Again I began the process of calling/emailing Blue Star service; but to no avail. They simply would not respond. Finally, I went the route of contacting Trevor at Eurostoves, whom I had purchased from originally, to see if he had any ideas about what could be done. I emailed him photos of the melted oven bracket & back. He contacted Blue Star and they answered him. They like, and respond to Trevor, as he is one of their top sales reps (and in my opinion, a very worthy individual to deal with, if you're seeking major appliances).

Trevor forwarded the photos of my oven to Blue Star (I will try to post them for reference). Blue Star's answer to Trevor was that this was fine, it would not be a problem even if the bracket was removed altogether. The banging was normal.

So I decided to despair. Then suddenly I remembered having purchased this range by a platinum credit card which carries an extended warranty through the credit card services that doubles whatever the original warranty was. As it was a 1 year original warranty, I was still a few months away from the end of the 2 year mark, so I immediately contacted my credit card and started a claim. Even though, by rights, Blue Star should've stepped up; it obviously being a defective group of hardware from the get go, I was relieved that it would get fixed, in any case.

Finally, this is where it starts to get interesting. The credit card services require an estimate of the repair. No problem. The Appliance Barn in Kalona, IA has, since my purchase, begun to carry and service Blue Star's ranges. The service man, Ray, came out and verified that this was obviously a melted oven back and bracket. Now they would simply contact Blue Star to ascertain that the oven back could be replaced, and what the cost of the replacement part would be. Then Appliance Barn would simply send in the estimate to my credit card service and that would be that.

Well. It just wasn't going to be that simple. I called Appliance Barn 2 weeks after their service call to ask how it was going. Turns out, it wasn't. Initially, Blue Star had simply ignored the request from the Appliance Barn for verification of replacement viability and price, altogether. Appliance Barn did not know what to do about this; they had never been faced with this type of behavior from a vendor.

Finally, Blue Star's answer was (their actual email response):
"The first issue with the banging sound coming from the oven is caused by the oven bottom expanding during the heating process. Sometimes this can be reduced by replacing the oven bottom, but we may not be able to eliminate this sound in all units.

Secondly, I forwarded the oven cavity photos (that they had already seen from Trevor and the Appliance Barn had resent) to our chief engineer for review. His determination was that the rear bracket was hit by some force causing it to bend and "spidering" the enamel coating. The unit does not produce enough heat to melt the metal causing it to bend down. (yes it can, and it did; as attested to by the melted, twisted rivets & old oven bottom still in my possession) This part is held on by basic aluminum rivets. The original rivets would just need to be drilled out and replacements put back in itТs place. The unit will function normally without the back bracket if needed.
Due to the unit being out of warranty and the damage not appearing to be the fault of BlueStar I am limited in what support I can give to remedy this situation."

The interesting bit here being that they were not being asked to do anything (like be responsible), but only answer whether the oven back/cavity could be replaced and give a price for it.

I determined that I had to tell the credit card services that I still couldn't give them an estimate and to see if they might be able to sort it out with Blue Star.

Blue Star would not respond to the credit card agent's attempts to contact. The agent finally called me back saying they were at a stand still (again) because they could not get an estimate. I flashed on the idea of Trevor (whom Blue Star always responds to) and told the agent to contact him. She did and Trevor conferenced her with Matt Shutte, service dept. head at Blue Star, right then.

She called me back to say that they had finally gotten the information from Blue Star that they needed: the range was repairable; but only by Blue Star, themselves. It would need to be shipped (at my expense) to their facility (all 500 pounds of it) and the cost of the repair would be $3000.00. That's right, both she and Trevor heard this clearly; and oddly, simultaneously, John Ditzio (also Blue Star tech) had contacted the Appliance Barn with the exact same information.

Well. She went on to say that now, at least they could move forward, as there was no way they would be having me send it in for repair when a new one costs the same (once shipping is considered). That she would just have to have the replacement "authorized" by upper management because the ticket price was so high (they can only go up to $2500 without seeking authorization), but she was certain it would be cleared in a few days. That was over 2 weeks ago.

As of yesterday, the "upper management" wants another opinion. Of what, exactly, it's unclear. There is no one else out here that could give an intelligent opinion as to repairing, as this range is virtually unknown out here in the mid-west of nowhere (and I don't mean Chicago-5 hours away). As far as "Is it melted and banging?" that is certainly observable by anyone. It would appear that Visa is feeling the pinch of the market downturn, as well and doesn't necessarily believe me or the Appliance Barn service man to be able to see/hear those things clearly...and for some reason, they are locked in somewhere in Montana where they cannot (will not) receive email, wherein I could send them the oven cavity photos. I will print & send by snailmail.

Suffice to say, make sure when you purchase a 500 pounder like this, that you are in a longitude/latitude that allows a comparatively simple return in case after you've paid to have it installed you find it has "issues" or performs less than hoped for.

I'd like to give another Bluestar customer's opinion in the hope that the management at PP will take note of the views of their paying customers and potentially their best advertising (if the customers are happy, that is). I'm basically in the same demographic as kachinee. I chose BS in part because of its straightforward simplicity - basic controls, no fancy electronics, parts that are few and simple and that could be serviced by the mechanically inclined owner. The point made by shannonplus2 that such a simple machine should not have many issues is well taken. I see no reason why it shouldn't run forever.

At the same time, I recognize that a range is a harsh environment and that parts will wear out on occasion. Though the stove was somewhat expensive, nothing is perfect and I can handle the occasional need for repair. If it's a simple repair then I'd prefer to do it myself, partly to save money but even more so that I don't need to wait for a repair tech. I could replace an oven glow-plug igniter in ten minutes and get on with my cooking. It might take a week to get a repair appointment. Shannonplus2 is completely off-base about the liability issue. As kachinee has said, other manufacturers seem to be able to make parts readily available without getting sued out of existence. A range is both simpler and less dangerous than an automobile, but I seem to be able to buy parts for my car. As for the danger of messing with a gas appliance, I did my own gas plumbing (as local code allows me to do) so why shouldn't I work with gas plumbing inside the range? I'm an engineer - I think I can handle repairing this simple appliance.

Shannonplus2 is correct that there is a business-model component involved in the decision about selling parts, and that's the point I want to make to PP management. Limiting the customer's options and insisting on complete control is the very same mistake that Apple Computer made. I'm a Macintosh user, but I recognize that Apple chose very poorly in keeping their platform closed and expensive. If MacOS had been licensed early on then there would have been no Windows. Microsoft would not dominate 95% of the PC market as they do today. If you let your customers make their own choices and help them save money then you will prosper. If you limit their options and gouge them then they will go elsewhere, even if the alternative is an inferior product (from its introduction in 1985 until release of Windows 95 no objective reviewer thought that Windows was as good as MacOS).

The Bluestar range can be marketed on three basic strengths: superior cooking performance, simple sturdy reliability, and value. You lack the brand recognition of the likes of Wolf and Viking so those buying a range just to impress others will likely not choose BS. Many more, though, who want a pro-style range for actual cooking, will go with performance, reliability, and value. Word-of-mouth from happy owners will build the Bluestar brand like nothing else can. By all means work to fix your build quality issues, but in the mean time help your customers solve any problems that do arise and help them keep their appliances working well. You'll never make back in parts what you'll lose in sales by making your customers unhappy about the problems that inevitably arise.

My own experience with Bluestar has been that they are already doing what I'm suggesting. I did have an early issue with a pinched wire on my range and Bluestar was very good about getting it fixed. The range is a joy to cook on and we appreciate it every day. Most people who see our new kitchen take quite an interest in the Bluestar range and we heartily recommend it. The longer it keeps working well for me, the more lavishly I'll praise it to others. What better advertising could you possibly get than customers who say "We've had it for years and we love it"?

hi everyone, i'm not one to keep my mouth shut about things that urk me. i'm a regular guy, i make good money, my spelling is marginal, my grammer is ok at best. but berryberry have you ever had a problem that wasn't resolved with your appliances? with your car? with anything? if you spent a few grand on something and due to some circumstances it broke and you couldn't address it quick enough. how would you feel if the manufacturer told you to go pound salt and if you didn't have the money to fix it after say a 25,000. remodel the previous year? what would you do? if i replaced a couple of spark modules and they kept burning out or going bad why in gods green earth would i want another of the same make. granted there may be an underlining reason why they are going bad but the avg. joe doesn't break things down. i've been following things on GW and i have a great deal of respect for alot of people on here. if i was going to buy a bluestar i wouldn't even consider buying it from any one but trevor @ eurostoves because with satisfied customers, the law of averages is in his favor and he seems to care. i don't own a bluestar i own another range and i respect the guy i bought it from & the manufacturer that i chose but christ step out of your perfect world and put yourself in the other guys shoes. i've built racecars, houses,i can navigate the globe by water, still trying to figure out the world wide web but did save a guys life once, but i don't feel comfortable letting some of the morons that call themselves appliance guys in my house. the best part is the people who make my range respect that and when i had a problem with mine they supplied me someone who wanted me to get my problem resolved. after spending half the night trying to follow this thread i just wanted you to know what i feel. continued success to everyone here. keep the information comming no matter good or bad. let the perspective buyer make a decision they can live with.
john
917-842-1809

joniir, if your credit card issuer will give you a cash settlement of $2000 or better, I would take it and close the book. Life can be unfair. In these hard economic times it is better to have a bird in the hand. Plus you can sell the good parts off the old lemon to other deserving owners who may have trouble finding parts in the future.

Edlg - just to be clear, you attributed a couple of things to me that I never said ("liability issue", "business-model component").

No product line is without lemons. Still, it's no comfort to be stuck with one. Professional chefs have felt your pain for years, simply because restaurant ranges are a finicky lot, expensive to fix, and were never really meant to be brought home. Yet they continued to try. I've found only two manufacturers, Bluestar and Capital, that have delivered on the promise of a professional range made for home use, without the $10K price tag. Given the breed is still new, and not all the statistics are in, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone other than professional cooks, at least until they show up on Consumer Reports.

We absolutely love our Bluestar, even after all the electronic igniters failed. We simply removed them entirely, and surprise-surprise! You can get an even lower flame heat lighting them by hand.

"We absolutely love our Bluestar, even after all the electronic igniters failed. We simply removed them entirely, and surprise-surprise! You can get an even lower flame heat lighting them by hand."

So five grand later (or whatever your model cost) you invested in a book of matches? Sorry, but to me that's like gathering up strangers in the parking lot to help push-start your Lamborghini.

Ok, just for fun I'll pretend to buy into the premise that every brand has ignitor issues (but only Bluestar owners tend to voice them) but have you read the recent threads about oven door hinge problems? The latest victim claims to have had five service calls which included not only new hinges but a new freakin' range and STILL can't roll the "full extension" bottom rack out all the way. Give me a break!!!

I'm being dead honest when I say I can't begin to name a range than I want more than a Bluestar, but every time I see crap like this I feel like I'd be a moron to buy one.

shannonplus2, I'm sorry, I attributed to you those two things that should be attributed to berryberry. My apologies.

Does Bluestar come from the same lineage as Garland stoves?

designed and originally marketed by Garland (who holds the patent on the star shaped burner). Garland contracted with PP to make them, and when the home biz proved too small for their biz model, sold the design and brand to PP.

Okay, this thread is darn scary. My husband and I have wanted a Blue Star for 2 years now...because it doesn't have all of the electronics other brands do and we believe(d?)that it will be reliable.

Monday, I'm calling my appliance repair man. I'm going to ask him if he's seen BS (he hadn't 2 years ago, but we're a small town). This repair man has solved Bosch problems for me in the past (yay Bosch, I still buy their dish washers...had a quick affair with F/P dish drawers but it ended badly) and he helped resolve a sad issue with a disappointing Meile oven. (That was when they first brought out convection, so don't take that as a Meile critique.)

I've noticed on all appliances that if the dealer won't provide great local service or won't pay the going rate of a decent repair man that they're just poison and stay away. When we first moved to this little town there was no high end appliance sales shop. We bought from us-appliances on the internet. They were (and are) great and led us to this brilliant appliance repair shop. The shop which charges higher rates, which us-a. was willing to pay for.

I'm going to go with what my repair man tells me. Not the dealer and not the manufacturer. Love the one you're with.

I agree with everyone here who said that if reliability is part of your decision path, part of what what you're paying extra money for, then you should receive it. I also agree that in this world reputation is everything. I completely agree that it's a sad world, caveat emptor, and purchase an extended appliance warranty whenever it's offered. And wear your seat belt. It's crazy out there.

Diva

Diva - How far are you from Sacramento? They've got a handful of dealers there so there must be service available as well. I suggest you contact Golden West (the regional distributor) and ask them for a list of authorized service centers in your area. One of the guys from GW posts here, so maybe he'll offer some help too.

If your repairman is familiar with Bluestar and can speak first hand to issue resolution then his opinion may be valuable. But if he has no direct experience then who's to know if that's because there are none in your area or because there are none with problems in your area?

I think there's a misconception about "reliability" that plagues discussions about ranges and cooktops. The issue I see is that most of the issues that people complain about are exactly the features that are demanded today but was not even available 20-30years ago. Many people say things like, "My mom's range lasted 20 years without problems. The issue I have with that statement is that ranges back then didn't have electronic ignition/re-ignition. It is well established that this single feature is the majority of service calls for any cooktop or range today. Unfortunately, this feature is also considered a must have by today's standards. Heck, you want reliability, how about a stove that was just a wood burning chamber with iron surface on top where you can remove a cap to expose a hole to release heat to your pan. That's the ultimate in reliability.

Yes, reliability is important but let's be honest with ourselves about the fact that we demand the features today which are those that we find unreliable. Doesn't matter what brand, the ignition system is the most likely to fail and has the shortest life. The rest is just plumbing. Also, my parents range of 28 years is still working but you know what, it hasn't dependably ignited for about 20 of those years. They just use a lighter or match on it when it doesn't light. And yet, today, if a range fails to re-ignite or takes a bit longer to light, people say it's unreliable. To me, the end function of a range is to provide heat for cooking and that is reliable for 20+ years even in today's ranges. How it lights is a matter of convenience and is easily solved by a $2 lighter. This is why in a restaurant setting, pilot light is still pretty typical. In fact, I had a case where the pilot light was set too low and kept going out. The solution was to light all the frequently used burners in the morning and leave them on simmer. Yes, it wastes some gas but the burners were only "off" for a couple of minutes or seconds throughout the day.

All I can say is, after having ignition problems with a Viking and repairing it myself, what I see in the design of my Bluestar cooktop gives me confidence that even if it failed out of warranty, I'd have no problem replacing the whole ignition system myself. With the Viking, it involved taking the bottom off which may require lifting the whole thing out. In the Bluestar, everything is accessible through the lift up top. The burners come out and the ignitors can be replaced without even lifting the top off. The spark unit is under a protective cover which comes off with 2 screws. So, for that reason alone, I bought mine with confidence because even long after my warranty I knew I could replace the components for the ignition system myself. I think if you research any of the brands, you'll find similar complaints about the ignition system after the first year or two.

Finally, I'm not defending Bluestar in any way when a I say that the ignition system is the most likely to fail. I simply state that as a known fact in the industry and that *ALL* brands suffer from it. Therefore, if you want a professional grade for the home gas range then it *is* something you have to live with and accept. Then understanding that all modern high-end ranges (with re-ignition) has similar problems, my decision is simply based on performance and ease of maintenance. In these two areas, Bluestar has the easy win.

amcook - You make some excellent points. But while I can't back this statement up, my honest recollection would suggest that if you were to count up every ignitor/spark module issue ever posted in this forum, you'd find that Bluestar's count would be higher than all other brands combined. That's what I don't get. And what I get even less is why we barely EVER hear about these issues with "regular" ranges and cooktops. Surely if these were malfunctioning at such a high rate on all the GE's and Frigidaires out there, at least once in a while someone would come here to ask how to go about a DIY repair on an out-of-warranty range, wouldn't you think? It's not a heat thing, as just about every modern range has at least one burner that pumps out pro-style level BTUs. So what is it?

You are absolutely correct that complaints about various brands vary. It also varies over time. I'm not going to make any claims about the number of Bluestar complaints vs any other brand because there's no way I can count them or back them up as you say. I've been lurking around here for about 2 years and only just this year started more actively posting. In that time, I've read a bunch of complaints about Wolf and Viking. I've also frequented chowhound which also has discussions of cooktops and ranges and find that the number of Wolf and Viking complaints there seem higher than here. I think it's partially due to the makeup of the posters at a given point and time. It would be interesting to hear form some of the dealer members who sell various brands to give us a broader view about one brand vs. another.

From my observation alone, the design of my current Bluestar burners seem to be better than my previous Viking in a couple of areas. First, as I mentioned the ease of maintenance is much improved with the Bluestar. Second, the burners have a row of holes specifically designed to provide an ignition point. Not so with the Viking. I found that unless you rotate the cap just right, the spark from the ignitor may not actually cross one of the holes for the gas/flame. Even with best alignment, the spark is not directly over any of the nozzles. That was a huge problem for me. Third, the location of the ingitor is in the inner ring of the burner which is less likely to be affected by a spill. My viking was prone to complete ignition failure (meaning no sparking on any of the burners) if any liquid got into the ignitor. Unfortunately, this happened much more frequently than I liked in the case of even a minor spill or even during routine cleaning.

Bluestar is not perfect. The ignitors do stick out more and are more exposed than the Viking. It's also a more commercial range design which is simpler but possibly more prone to damage. I believe these two factors account for the reports of physical damage (aka. cracking). IMHO, an ignitor that takes less than 5 min to replace, is covered for 2 years, and cost less than $10 to purchase (around $6-7 a couple of years ago) if not in warranty is a non-issue for me. But then that's based on what I am willing to deal with and expect. I can also respect other opinions that may not be in agreement with mine.

Now, my thoughts on why the pure consumer brands don't have such issues.. perhaps they do but people who spend $300-500 on a range may not spend as much time as we do complaining about things we don't like. :) Also, from some of the older designs that I've seen, the ignitor is inside a tube or other gas chamber which has better chance of lighting. That is one thing that I always wonder why more "pro" ranges do have which is a little cap over the ignitor to collect gas for better ignition. Also, heat may be a factor since the higher intensity heat the ignitor (specifically the ceramic insulation tube/ring) is exposed to on a high-end range will cause more wear in a shorter amount of time. Consumer ranges don't come close to 15k btu typically. I think most are closer to 10-12k at it's highest. Compare that to 22k and you've got a pretty big difference.

The reason BlueStar would have more ignitor issues is that if the air shutter adjustments are not properly done at time of installation the ignitors will spark until the air shutters are properly adjusted. Since they have instituted white glove service that complaint has greatly been reduced.

I think one important thing to consider is that "Bluestar" was popularized nationally by the Garden Web.....Consequently the percentage of Bluestar ranges sold via the Garden Web and reported on the Garden web for good or bad reasons will be much higher than wolf or Viking.

The above COULD be the reason you see more ignition issues on this site for Bluestar than other brands.

I would also have to say that I have seen a notable drop in service calls for my Bluestar customers with problems over the last 12 - 18 months and yet my sales have grown. Is that related to improvements by Bluestar or because they are over that bad batch of modules, I hope its a little of both.

Wow, I had thought I wanted a BStar, until I read this, now I'm still open but will take more time to decide. I actually liked open burners better than closed burners, so that is why I was leaning toward it. Other choice is a DCS, anyone have one of those?

FYI - I haven't read this entire thread.

I have a BlueStar cooktop. 60" - 6 burners, grill and griddle. I also have their 24" salamander.

The burners and grill have been perfect. The griddle is not keeping proper heat. The salamander has a bad burner.

BlueStar has been very responsive in trying to get it fixed. I feel confident that it will get fixed eventually. Given the boutique nature of the product and its performance, I have no problem with this level of service.

HELLO EVERYONE, I found this thread while goolging information on the Bluestar igniter and ignition module problem. I have owned a 36Т Bluestar( 4 burner with grill) since November of 2005 and it recently started with the always-clicking problem. The range is fabulous to cook with and on and has met all my expectations. As to the quality of other semi-pro ranges my only experience has been a close friend in NC who spent one year trying to have his oven fixed on a brand new Viking. I was at his home on a couple of occasions when the "local"repairman came over from Johnson City, Tn. (about an hours drive) and the range looked like a computer inside. After 5 or 6 trips ever circuit board had been replaced at least once and the oven still would not work for longer than a week or two. Viking finally sent him a replacement range. The circuit boards cost many, many hundreds of dollars each and after the warranty expires you are buying them. In addition the entire range has to be moved out from the wall and the back disassembled to get to the boards. So I wouldnТt complain too much about your Bluestar and its ignition module problems.
Now as to the clicking problem. Lots of talk and not much investigation or thought going on here especially by those persons who dislike Bluestar. IТm not an electrical engineer but have you considered the nature of the ignition and re-ignition system?
The simple part is sending an electrical signal down a wire to the igniter, causing a spark and igniting the gas. The hard part is using the same apreratious to monitor the flame and being able to report back to the ignition module that the flame is still lit or at some later time that the flame has gone out so the electrical signal can be re-sent to re-light the flame. All in all it would be much simpler to just have the spark fire when the gas control knob is turned to a specific location and then off when the knob is turned away from the "LIGHT" setting to adjust the gas flame. However no one seems to want to make it that simple so here we are.
I have taken apart several of the igniters that were original to my range and they are in fact reasonable well constructed. The wire is covered with a high temp heat resistant covering, the "barrel" male electrical fitting is well made and fully shielded, the copper wire is 20 gage, stranded and tinned. The fault with the igniter is that the wire is connected to the stainless steel "spark probe" by what is apparently a plain metal crimped fitting. This crimped fitting is apparently rusting from water, cleaning fluids, whatever and I believe leading to two problems: 1. Cracking of the porcelain insulator from rust pressure (think rusting rebar and concrete) and 2. Increasing the resistance of the circuit so that the ignition module thinks the flame has gone out when it has not. This may also lead to stress on the module its self and cause premature failure of the same.
There is an easy fix for those of you who have a Philips screwdriver, needle nose pliers and can use them and would rather do so than write nasty e-mails and bogs all day long.
There is a source of parts on the web for both the ignition modules and the new and improved igniters( that Viking is using) The web site is called guybanks.com. They sell Viking range parts but they have both brands of ignition modules( 4 and 6 burner models) and the new "flat top" igniters. The flat top igniters are sealed to prevent fluids from entering them and I suspect preventing them from rusting and disrupting the electrical circuit of the re-light system.
You can adapt the new flat top igniters to work with your Bluestar burners easily as follows: 1. Remove old style igniter 2. Break ceramic insulator with a hammer up by the metal probe 3 cut probe off just below the connector that connects the wire and the metal probe. 4 pull wire out of broken ceramic insulator 5 drive out the rest of ceramic insulator with a round object (Phillips screw driver) and a tap from your hammer-it comes out very easy. 6 attach the metal fitting that was around the igniter to the new flat top igniter with a little bit of prematex ultra copper high temp RTV (NOTE THE OBLONG END OF THE REUSED METAL FITTING MUST FACE THE SAME DIRECTION AS THE FLAT TOP IGNITER- ON THE FIRST ONE DO A DRY RUN WITH BURNER TO SEE HOW IT FITS BEFORE YOU GLUE THEM 7 set aside to cure- about two hours 8 strip clipped end of wire and attach a new 18-22 gage insulated female spade clip to end of the wire so you can plug it on to the bottom of the new flat top igniter (they donТt come with a wire) 9 attach new igniters back to the burners. You will need 4 or 5 6x32 machine screws and about 10 small washers. Just take one of the old igniter screws with you to the hard ware store. Get the shortest screws you can. Mount the "new" flat top igniters with the old/new screws and washers as needed. You want the igniters to sit flat so you will have to put a washer or 2 under the screw so the igniter sits flat and thus stands straight and is in the proper location next to the "flame holes" on the burners. Be sure it is not touching the burner ( it would be grounded and not spark, nor to far from the bottom flame hole) Once you look at it and do one you will see how easy it really is. The part number for the new igniter is PA020028.

Now the next thing is the ignition module. The one Viking(PA020042-6 BURNNER-TYTRONICS) uses is not a drop in replacement for the one Bluestar uses so it takes a little fussing around to get it back into the same location(mounting holes and blades in different places) . I suspect this is why Bluestar has not changed their brand of modules because they obviously designed their controls and front panel around one particular sized module. THE IMPORTANT THING TO DO AND REMEMBER WHEN CHANGING ANY MODULE IS TO LABEL AND WRITE DOWN WHERE THE WIRES CAME FROM!!!!! Three wires are pretty self-explanatory, ground, neutral, and line(hot). Then there is one set of wires that are labeled 1-4 or 1-6. These wires come from the control knobs( the switches behind the control knobs really) and turn on the electrical spark to the correct burner. The blades are the same size as the gdn, neutral and line blades. When you remove these 4 or 6 wires just use a magic marker and put 1 slash, 2 slashes, 3 slashes etc on the appropriate wire when removing as a double check. You will clearly be able to see which wire you are removing from which blade. Use a flashlight, go slow and by the way use needle nose pliers to pull the wires off the blades(pull on the plastic fitting, not on the wire)
Next you will need to remove the wires that run to the igniters. These are NOT labeled and if you later hook them up to the wrong burner it will click forever even if it has lit, thus defeating the entire purpose of this repair job!!!!!! These 4 or 6 wires are on the opposite side of the module. The metal blades are much smaller than the ones you just worked with and there is a number imprinted into the plastic case next to the blade. However it is very difficult to read if not impossible while the module in the range(invensys module-original Bluestar equipment if you donТt want to change brand of modules). The good thing is it is easy to figure out where these wires go if you get confused. All you have to do is attach each of the "slashed marked" wires one at a time to its correct blade and turn it on. The igniter will click, and you will know it "wire/circuit x " so just mark that on the burner holder. Once you have them all marked just trace the wire from a burner, say number 3, to the small blade labeled 3 and plug the wire in. test it and you are all done. By the way, on the invensys module, these smaller blades are numbered 1-4/6 from left to right, just like the bigger blades.( on the TYTRONICS module the small blades are numbered so you can easily read them)
One last point. If you use a six-burner module in a four-burner stove you have to jumper small blades 4 and 6 together and then ground them to a screw on the range. Not a big deal.
There is another thread on this site that has to do with the same problem. Down about half way look for a post by annalbin 12-21-08 . Read it and notice what mistakes they made when they replaced their ignition module. I used their post to start my fix and it was some help, but they didnТt do it the easy way. It would be nice if they would scan the Bluestar instructions and post them on this forum. I canТt post a link to it but the thread name is: BLUE STAR IGNITOR ISSUE REDUX

The ignition module is located behind the front control panel. All the control knobs come off, gentle pull off or if they need a little help pry both sides at the same time with two small flat blade screw drives until they move a quarter of an inch or so, then finish the removal by hand. The panel its self is attached by ( in my case-36" range) three screws above the control knobs and three under the bottom of the panel. It does help to have a long (6 inch metal blade before the handle) Phillips screw driver so your hands and the handle will be below the control panel when removing the top 3 screws. You must have the oven door open, no need to remove and the drip shelf? out. When you replace the panel you will have to push it up and in a little. Start with the upper, outside edge screws. The upper middle panel screws donТt always want to line up just right with the screw holes, so just take your flat blade screw driver, put in slightly into one of the extra upper panel slots(you will see them) and just gently push or pull the panel until it lines up- very easy to do)
Now I suppose the question is how do you tell if the problem is/are the individual igniters or the ignition module? Well if an igniterТs cracked, duh- that one is simple. If all the igniters spark and donТt turn off when your burner lights then it must? Be the module. I guess the question is, is that all of the possibilities in the fault tree? It would seem as if there are other possibilities such as a bad igniter with an internal fault but no external signs of the fault. I wonder what symptoms that would present and how would one diagnose such a problem? Any one care to take an educated guess?
LEGAL DISCLAIMER: I ALREADY TOLD YOU IТM NOT AN ELECTRICAL ENGINEER NOR DO I HAVE AN FORMAL TRAINING IN THE DESIGN OF GAS RANGES, OR ELECTRICAL IGNITION SYSTEMS. I DONТT THINK YOU CAN KILL YOUR SELF OR YOU SPOUSE OR DOG OR CAT OR WHATEVER NOR DO I THINK YOU WILL SCREW UP YOUR WONDERFUL BLUESTAR RANGE, BUT YOU DO KNOW WHAT FEE ADVICE IS WORTH, DONТT YOU? I SUGGEST YOU REMOVE YOUR CONTROL PANEL, LOOK AT THE INTERESTING PARTS BEHIND IT AND IF YOU ARE NOT INTIMIDATED BY WHAT YOU SEE ORDER THE PARTS AND GO FOR IT. WHAT THE HELL WE DIDNТT GET TO THE MOON BY SITTING AROUND ON OUR COLLECTIVE BUTTS AND WHINING.

Wow!
I get that the takeaway message you're supposed to leave with from this post is: you can fix your BlueStar yourself, once, and for all.

The message I think I'm getting -- if, as the p10rs says, Viking has replaced its problem ignitors with Tytronics ignitors, and if you're just getting a rangetop with no oven, does that mean that now one could expect Viking to be at least as problem free as all the other "pro" rangetops?

DARN IT, I HAVE A COUPLE OF TYPOS IN MY POST. DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW I CAN EDIT IT? THANKS IN ADVANCE

No way to edit or delete an existing post - if the typos are significant then just post corrections - otherwise don't worry about it

HELLO AGAIN EVERY ONE, after my post on Sunday I discovered a few typos after I printed my tome out. Additionally I wanted to respond to saydeТs post.
FIRST THE TYPOS-THE MAJOR ONES ANYWAYS:

A. When I was talking about using a 6-burner module in a 4-burner range I stated you must " jump small blades 4 and 6 together and then ground them to a screw on the range. Not a big deal." IT SHOULD READ SMALL BLADES 5 AND 6.

B. LEGAL DISCLAIMER: "BUT YOU KNOW WHAT YOU GET FOR FEE" SHOULD READ WHAT YOU GET FOR FREE.

C. When discussing the procedure to re-build/mount new flat top igniters, item #9, I stated you should put one or two washers under the screw so the igniter sits flat and thus stands straightЕThe washers should be placed under the old reused mounting flange so the igniter sits flat. The screw will go through the old flange, new washers and into the burner as it did with the old igniter.

D. The new flat top igniters will have a mounting flange that sits 90 degrees from where you want the old flange to be glued. This new flange will just sit on both sides of the burner and will not interfere with anything at all. In fact it will probably make the new/rebuilt igniter more stable when attached to the burner. This will be very oblivious to you when you do a dry run as per #6

E. When I was discussing how to figure out which wires ran to which igniters if you got those wires mixed-up I said " the igniter will click, and you will know it is "wire/circuit x" so just mark that on the burner holder. In the next sentence I said plug the igniter wire from burner 3 to small blade 3, test it and you are all done. WELL IN ORDER TO DO THIS TEST TO FIND OUT WHICH WIRE GOES TO WHICH IGNITER ALL THE IGNITER WIRES WOULD HAVE TO BE PLUGGED INTO THE SMALL BLADES AT ONE TIME and YOU WOULD ATTACH THE BIG BLADES ONE AT A TIME, TEST, LABEL(the burner) REMOVE AND GO TO THE NEXT ONE. AS TO THE SMALL BLADES SINCE THEY ARE ALL PLUGGED IN YOU WOULD JUST REARRANGE EACH ONE SO IT WOULD BE ON THE CORRECT BLADE, IE: wire/circuit #1 to small blade # 1, etc

NOW AS TO saydeТs post. There are two distinct problems. One being the igniters, which is the device mounted on the burner which sparks and the second being the ignition module which is the electronic device which produces the energy for the spark and monitors whether or not the burner is still lit. It is very hard to tell from the guybanks web site which ignition module(s) is new or old as the four of them listed, 2 white,( one obviously Invensys) and 2 blue (one of which I know is a Tytronics), all have multiple Viking ranges associated with them. The part I received (PA020042) was labeled as having been made in 2005. However the 4 igniters I received were all made in May of 2008 so I assume these are the new Viking igniters.
So to answer your questions: yes, you can fix your Bluestar once and for all using the new Viking "flat top igniters" and Tytronics ignition module.
As far as VikingТs igniter problem I would say they have it fixed as long as the model you purchase has the flat top igniters.
Viking appears to have switched from Invensys ignition modules to Tytronics, so as long as the Tytronics work better or are of a better design or quality then I would thing that problem is solved, although IТm not sure if there is a Tytronics replacement for every Viking model.
For those of you who donТt want to go through the hassle of switching from Invensys to Tytronics, well now you have a place to buy them, somewhat less expensive and much more response( from what some posts say) Guybanks ships orders out in a day or two by USPS.

I like to cook and am somewhat limited in what I can use in my kitchen because of space. A 36" cooktop and separate double wall ovens would be ideal, however I cannot forgo the counter space. I thought a good alternative would be a 30 or 36" range, with a separate undercounter oven so that I can have two ovens. The drawback to the 30" range is the number of burners; G.E. Profile has a 30" with 5 burners but it seems crowded, and I don't like the look. I was attracted to the bluestar 30" RCS for its affordability, ($3650) but as I read more on this website, it sounds problematic. Has anyone had experience with the Frigidaire 36" pro style stove? Is it completely out of the league with the others? According to Consumer Reports, it sounds much more reliable. Another alternative might be the Jenn air 48", if the 2nd oven is sufficient, in which case I would forgo a separate undercounter wall oven. Has anyone had experience with it? It is attractive, but I want it to be functional and reliable as well. Beyond that, I can not see spending the money on one of the pros, as they do not get good ratings for reliability. Big decision!

Bluestar isn't the only manufacturer of expensive ovens that bail on the customer after the 12-month warranty expires. We had a similar experience with Dacor, although the oven worked there were problems. The lower oven's fan crapped out after four uses. I had to use my home warranty to get it fixed. Fan was bad out of the gate. Seized motor.

What I have found is that heat and electronics don't mix. God help us if the computer logic board goes. We were told it would cost $1,800 (that's right!) to replace it. Another American-made company that charges a lot of money ($5,800 in this case) and won't step up to correct problems two weeks after a warranty expires.

It's like the auto industry. We used to build a good, reliable product that would last. Not anymore.

SPEEDYMONK, i think you missed one of the points in my first post, that being BLUESTAR has no $1,800 computer circuit boards. other than the igniters and ignition module and a couple of other little parts it is remarkably an analog device which is why I believe it is easy to fix by anyone who has any basic skills at all and in spite of its perceived faults(by some) a much better choice than other high end ranges.

Timeline on the Bluestar that nearly burned down the house:

July 2007 Bluestar 30" RNB manufacture altered for LP purchased

October 2007 door froze shut. 3 months later a new door finally arrived and was installed.

December 2009 igniter and safety valve went

May 2010 igniter and safety valve went - MANY emails and phone calls later someone from Bluestar in PA finally agreed to speak with me and told me that despite the fact that the igniter broke again six months later what did I expect from a range so old? (purchased in July of 2007)

December 2010 igniter and safety valve went - after some VERY ugly communications Bluestar agreed to pay for the parts and service call

Friday, September 16, 2011 - 15 minutes into preheating the oven to 400 degrees flames burst through the right side of the closed door igniting the front of the oven door and sending flames shooting up the right side of the oven and pantry wall. My ten year old daughter entered the house, heard 'crackling' coming from the kitchen, reached through the flames and turned the gas off before calling me (I was just pulling onto our street).

I don't think self destruct is in the manual.

Also, as if it really matters at this point, the igniters on the front two burners went within the first 18 months. Too expensive to have them replaced so we were using matches but at least that was an option.

FOLLOW UP - Having just read this ENTIRE string (wow) I want to make something perfectly clear. All of those igniter issues in the string? Yep, I've experienced every one of them (now I understand SO much more) but what I'm getting at is the oven igniter. THAT'S what was replaced every six months until flames shot out the oven door nine months after the last replacement.

And I'm thinking about the poor guy with the blown out oven back...

I don't live in the middle of nowhere, by the way. I'm in Stamford, CT, 40 miles outside of NYC and you'd THINK I could get service in under a month. You would think.

In any event, it was a wonderful, incredible machine when it was working and right up until it nearly burned my house down I truly loved it. Now I'll never have another Bluestar product in my house.

Yes, things break. Yes, we have painted ourselves into this corner of non-durable consumer durables (see the capital consumer economic model that's slowly sort of killing us at the moment). I do not, however, expect to be blown up in my own home by a pre-heating kitchen appliance.

Somehow an acquaintance of mine managed to come up with the name, number and email address of one Mike Trapp at Bluestar in PA who's response to my plight was as follows:

"I am the President of this fabulous company. I will do whatever I can to assist you. There must be something amiss here. Our repair rate is next to 0. We are a boutique manufacturer. If you call me on Monday, I will dig into your issue and assist you. Thank you."

We did send an email.

But quite honestly? I don't expect a response back from Bluestar on this one either. Just. Not. Their. Problem.

On the other hand it's not my problem anymore either. Now it's Chubb's problem and I'm in the market for another range without an electronic panel because I still believe thatя┐╜s the way to go, less being more and all that.

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

As someone who also owns a Ford ...

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE:guadalupe

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar parts search

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

Update

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

RE: Bluestar warning on quality and customer service