Our contractor is opening up the kitchen walls next week, and would like to have some idea of the specs for ducting and wiring he should plan for – so we need to make a decision fairly soon.

My employer is renovating our founder's original homestead. We have a restored 40" 1952 O'Keefe and Merritt stove (six burners of unknown BTUs) that is used intermittently – usually to cook for large groups for retreats. The stove sits between the refrigerator and a soon-to-be installed floor cabinet and there is less than 2" of clearance between the refrigerator and stove. There are no cabinets on the wall at all, and the ceiling is approx. 9’6". (See photo below)

The kitchen has never had a ventilation system, and the accumulation of grease (mostly bacon and steaks) on the walls, ceiling and fans, is, um, significant, so we are hunting for an appropriate ventilation option.

While we hoped to keep the cost of ventilation under $1000, we were leaning toward using a liner with a custom-built chase and an in-line blower. Reading the posts here, it seemed that maybe we could get the equipment for around $1000 and add in the cost of the chase and install.

Our CEO did an online search and didn’t find a whole lot out there in terms of reviews of specific ventilations systems (he did not find this site). So he went to a local higher-end appliance store where he has done quite a bit of business and these were their recommendations (in order):
1. A Dacor IVSR2 ventilator, a IHL42 liner with a ILHSF8 in-line blower. Approx. cost $1570
2. A Viking VBCV4238 liner with a VIL900 in-line blower. Approx. cost $1630
3. A Viking DCW4244 White Hood with chimney extender. Approx. cost $1420
4. A Viking DCWN4244 White Hood with chimney extender. Approx. cost $1470

The dealer, when asked, described Modern Aire, Independent, Prestige, and Kobe as "off-brands" and "lower quality brands." He also said that he thought in-line blowers could be an issue for maintenance (we have clear and easy attic access), and that the internal blowers are not that loud. He also thought baffles were harder to clean than mesh screens and didn’t make a difference in sound.

All of the dealer information seems largely contradictory to the information I’ve read in this forum – but unfortunately, this what he’s told our CEO. He also said that service on these other brands could be an issue. This last one is likely true. This property is out in the middle of mountainous nowhere in far N. Calif. It is a minimum 1.5 hour drive to the closest gas station. :-)

Does anyone have any advice? Any recommendations as to a good ventilation system – given our constraints? Do any of the dealer’s recommendations make sense? Help!

David

Last night I had two woks going at once stir frying a veg. dish and a meat dish with hot chilis and the Fantech handled them both with no problems. Installed CFM is 1066-,1250 CFM before installation. It is quieter on high than the other hoods were on low.

Observation one: your dealer is either 1) an idiot or 2) a crook (more likely). As happens over and over again, so-called "high end" appliance dealers carry ventilation equipment as an afterthought. They have absolutely no interest in anything but getting a bit more of your money. So, of course, they are going to sell what they carry and disparage the competition. Kind of like going to the Chevy dealer and asking what they think about the Ford. Useless.

Two: the notion that a Modern Aire hood (I choose this brand because I own one) is an "lower quality, off brand" is laughable. My MA is a hand built out of 300 series stainless steel. It was custom built to exactly fit my surround, and met specs to the 1/16th of an inch (see if Viking can do that). The baffles are a gorgeous highly polished stainless finish. I have a remotely mounted switch on the wall next to the range, with a light switch for the five halogens, and an infinitely variable speed control for the fan (see if Viking can do that). I had repeated phone and email discussions with Jeff and the staff at Modern Aire during the design and build stages, ensuring I got exactly what I needed (try calling Dacor and asking them for advice on where to locate the duct collar). My liner will kick the $&*% of any Viking or Dacor unit you can find.

Three: "internal blowers are not that loud." ROFL. My inline Fantech FKD 10XL (same as paddy's) is almost silent at full speed. Rather than just describe, I'll point you to my earlier post where I actually measured the decibel output of my Fantech inline, compared to our 600 cfm Vent a Hood at our lake house. The difference is demonstrably huge:

A useful link: vent hoods and noise: the real scoop

Four: inline blower maintenance. My Fantech sits out in the open in our attic. Working on an internal blower means taking the hood apart and pulling the motor out. Which would you rather do?

Five: baffles harder to clean than mesh? OK, here's the drill. Pop baffles out. Put in dishwasher. Wash. Pop baffles back in. Umm, exactly what is easier with mesh?

Six: performance of baffles vs mesh. Go look at every restaurant kitchen you can find. Look under their hood. Hmm, baffles, baffles, baffles...gosh, how come no one has mesh???

OK, more things to consider. That is a gorgeous kitchen in the making. Something that striking and idiosyncratic should have a hood that matches the design vision, not just an off the shelf hood that would look more appropriate. It sounds like you're going with a custom surround, which makes sense, and that's where a liner like my custom PSL would be ideal--again, remember, it's custom built to your exact specs. You don't just have the ability to get the 42'' or the 48'', with the 24'' depth. You want 45.5'' wide, with a 26'' depth, no problem, and at virtually no added cost vs the standard liner. But just in case you're considering an actual hood, here's a pic:

Modern-Aire hood

How about copper, or hammered stainless as a finish?

But, if you are doing a custom surround, here's what it will look like inside:

As for the service issue--I can't see why that's a concern. Getting any kind of service might be a challenge given the location, but an inline Fantech blower could be serviced by any HVAC dealer. Fantech is great to deal with (I've called them several times and gotten great, friendly tech support) and they are well known in the HVAC industry for all types of fans (we have a Fantech remote bathroom fan which is equally top notch). The hood itself is just metal. As long as you buy a good one, it should never need service.

So: the short version. Show this thread to your CEO. His dealer is a self serving liar. Find a really good company that makes hoods for a living. Think hard about doing a custom liner that will exactly fit your needs. If you want more information, do yourself a huge favor and call Modern-Aire and ask for Jeff Herman, or email me directly and I'll give you his email.

Clinresga, I love your hood and surround! Gorgeous - even with the naked drywall. I about split my sides reading your response! I think I'll show it to my CEO - maybe with a few edits of comments about the dealer's character! :-) I know our CEO had done a lot of business at this shop, and I don't want him to get defensive!

Our contractor is coming in today (given the property's remote location and lack of telephones, we get to connect once a week about what issues have come up for the project) and I'll have him take a look at this thread.

If we go with a liner & in-line fan set up, we'll run the ducting straight up into the attic, make a turn and run the vent over the screened-in sleeping porch (on the other side of the sink in the photo) and vent it outside through the roof gable. From the top of the liner, I think the duct run will be between 20 - 25 feet with one 90 degree turn. The attic is very spacious and has room for anything.

A couple of follow-up questions based on your good advice -

One - the Modern Aire set up with the Fantech in-line motor sounds great - is there much of a difference between MA, Independent, Prestige, etc. in terms of quality OR price? I am still trying to balance the two. This project has gone over budget already and given the economy, I am not sure how much our CEO is going to want to fork over for the ventilation system.

Two - Since I dont really know how many BTUs our stove has (but I am assuming since it is a restored stove that they are not high-powered burners), do I really need to get a huge in-line fan? The Fantech sites shows that the FKD 10 is about a 910 CFM fan, the 10XL is 1266 CFM, and the 8XL is 836 CFM. The size of the ducting is not an issue for us, but saving money is . . . from what I've read I think we'd be okay with 800 - 900 CFM (or the FDK 10 fan). Is that right?

Three - we are not familiar with silencers. Do they reduce air flow significantly? If so, how much? Do they make a big difference in sound? Would they be worth it, give the location of the blower (in the attic over an outside sleeping porch - which is not quiet as there is a roaring stream outside)? We are most interested in quieting the kitchen area, less worried about any noise along the duct line.

Fourth (and last!) - Our stove is deep - with the connectors, etc, it sits out about 32" from the wall (same depth as our Big Chill refrigerator). See photo below. If we do go with a custom liner and try to sit it about 30" above the stove, it will sit approx. where the bottom of the topmost wooden shelf is above the stove. (See photo in original post.) If we site it 36" above the stove, it will sit approx. where the middle of the light is now. How high and deep should the hood be? We want to make sure it captures as much air/grease as possible, but we also don't want it to be too big or cumbersome. Any advice is helpful!

Thank you everyone for all your suggestions! This is certainly not my area of expertise, and I appreciate all the information - it will be helpful in convincing our CEO which way we should go!

And thank you, clinresga, for the compliment on the kitchen. The photos I've posted, do not come close to doign it justice (e.g. the floors are 1" x 2" variable length clear vertical grain fir and will be refinished to their original beauty.) This whole project has been a labor of love. After the interior painting is done and after the holidays, I'll try to remember to post photos of how far we've come. You should see the bathrooms! :-)

Re your questions:

Pricing of MA vs others: I can't give you hard numbers as once I found the MA liner I did not extensively look at others, but based on a few minutes on the web tonight, I don't think there is an enormous difference. The big difference for me was that for a very minimal custom upcharge, I was able to specify the exact dimensions and layout of my liner.

I agree that you may not need mega-cfm blower for your range. A total guess on my part would be that the 900 cfm FKD10 would work well, especially since you'd still be using the low restriction 10'' ductwork. Still, the price differential between the 10 and the 10XL is not huge, but still, a penny saved...

I love the Fantech LD10 silencer. It's effect is to reduce audible motor noise in the kitchen, and it works extremely well. My 10XL at high has essentially no audible motor sound in my kitchen. It is huge (if memory serves me correctly, 42'' long and about 14'' in diameter) but sounds like that's no problem in your attic either.

Hood sizing is a challenge. Are you using a custom surround? If so, the design of that will impact your decision. I worry that a hood just 30'' over the range that still covers the front burners will project pretty far out, and it may look strange, depending again on the surround. I'd personally favor going 36'' over the range, and compensating by using a deeper hood. Typical hoods are 24'' deep, some companies do a 27'' hood, but at least with MA you should be able to choose a custom depth out to say 30'', which will go a long way towards mitigating the greater distance up to the hood. Still, I'd like to see your plans for a hood surround, or what type of hood you're thinking of if you're not using a surround. More info!

Thanks for all the info and good things to think about. I am glad to hear that you like the Fantech silencer. Our attic should easily be able to accomodate its size. Do you know if they reduce the effective CFM of the blower? (I hope to get off another project today and start calling various companies to figure out what we need).

We will be using a custom surround - truly custom in the sense that our contractor/finisher will make it for us in any fashion we want. We haven't yet settled on a specific design, but it will be made of wood, painted the wall color and we'll probably try to make it "disappear" as much as possible. Ha! Given the nature of this project (restoring a 1920's remote fishing resort - off the grid and way in the middle of nowhere), we are working with a contractor who does beautiful work and can pretty much make anything out of any material. (You should see the cabinets he's made that look like they've always been there, the rock fireplace surround he built that is a deadringer for the 1924 one that came off in the 1970s, etc. He is a true artisan.)

So for the range hood, we are constrained by the location of the refrigerator on the one side, and the size/depth of the range. I believe we will have a maximum of 43-44" for the surround (the stove is 40" wide and sits about 32" off the wall). It sounds like MA might be my first call if they can make a custom liner that is the right width and extra deep.

We did hear back from the stove restorer, and the burners have a total of 72K BTUs (12K each) and the ovens have a total of 40K BTUs (20K each). I still think the FDK10 will work for us if we get to that level of pinching pennies, but we'll have to run the numbers to see!

In another post, I saw you mention that you have a wall control for the blower and lights. Did that come with the MA? Or is it manufactured by another company? Are the blower and light controls on the same unit?

Can't wait to see what you do with the surround. I'm envious that you have such a great contractor.

Given your size I think your nuts if you don't use a custom sized hood and liner. The sizes you're listing are not even close to standard off the shelf units and I can't see compromising the look or the performance of the hood just to match an off the shelf unit. MA would be great in their ability to exactly match what you want.

I do think that the FKD10 would suffice. One standard recommendation from Wolf is 1 cfm for every 100 BTU/hr, which means that you'd want at least 720 cfm. However, higher cfm would guarantee performance even with a silencer and a moderate duct run, and would also cover any additional heat generated by the ovens. Remember you can always run a 10XL at less than full speed, but you can't do the reverse with the smaller blower, and in the global scope of your project the cost difference is vanishingly small.

Wall control is one of my favorite features. It's a standard choice with MA. It just means that the wiring for the lights, and for the blower, are run to a wall switch by your electrician. MA sells a rheostat to control the blower speed, and the lights go on a dimmer. Infinitely variable speed control is great (we had it just barely running last night while we simmered chicken soup).

Our contractor IS incredible. This project would never have come to be without his talent, creativity and ability to problem-solve some terrific problems!

I'll give a call to MA tomorrow and see what they think this kind of system will cost. I'll post here what they recommend. . .

And thank you, paddy, for the info on how a silencer and two 90 degree turns will affect the FDK XL10. And I am in awe that low on your system will hold a piece of paper against the filters! I am getting ventilation-envy! My home system is an antique Broan . . . now I am really looking forward to re-doing my own kitchen in a few years (c'mon economy!).

Probably the best part for us, is that even though the hood is custom, Jeff thinks it will be here in about 2 weeks. Great!

Sorry to be such a pest, but one last question for clinresga and anyone else who has a wall-control: What kind do you have, and does anyone have a single wall control unit that controls both the variable speed blower and the dimmable lights? Jeff suggested two separate controls, but if we can get a single unit, that would be great.

Thank you everyone for all your good advice and help!

Jeff is great, and I love the dual front/back lighting. That's the kind of hood you can only get with a custom manufacturer--extra depth, extra lighting etc.

Jeff also offered to let me source the Fantech, but I was in a huge time crunch and ended up just telling him to send it all to me. Probably could have saved maybe $2-300 in shipping and costs but the hassles of ensuring I ordered the right damper, duct collar, etc made me too nervous. If you have the time and expertise though it's definitely a way to save.

Totally OT: I was amused to find most online sources of Fantech blowers are hydroponic suppliers who mainly support growers of "not for consumption, medicinal purposes only" crops.

Thank you so much for all of your help. Our contractor was back down again today and took all of the information Jeff sent my way. Now I am playing phone tag with Jeff to order the liner, but it looks like we are good to go. Do you happen to know which brand/model you have for the fan/light control? Jeff indicated we could buy one pretty much anywhere as long as it was rated for the load, but I'm not sure where to look for a combined fan/light control (one wall plate, two controls).

And I agree, it is amusing to see the sources of some of our products! Thank you again for all your help!

I think to clarify, you don't need a special dual control. The fan speed rheostat is a standard sized unit that looks just like a dimmer switch you'd use to control a lamp. It fits into a single gang outlet box. Then all you do is put a standard single gang dimmer switch for the lights next to it in a dual outlet box and cover that with a dual switch wall plate. Does that make sense?