according to my KD who just replied to my email:

"You don't have to worry about this ...the 13" is when the uppers on either side are at a height above the countertop that is lower than 18 inches."

Some seller with zero feedback is selling Culinarians on the 'bay.

I don't know why someone would pay full price for such an expensive item from a seller with zero feedback but thought it was interesting.

Here is a link that might be useful: CGMR366

Anyone else here taken delivery on their Capital Range?

la bump

Got it last week (ordered beginning of Sept). Still in the box on a pallet in the garage, waiting for backsplash install. 20 family members coming over for Christmas, I sure hope I have some play time with it beforehand. I'm in So Cal.

Mine is in place, but just got the hood and counters installed; no running water yet in the kitchen, so I have not really used it yet.

Mine arrived the week before Christmas. Granite was already set in place to the left, positioned the C and set the right side for a nice tight fit. It will be awhile before it gets fired up, as we are building from ground up and have only temporary power and no gas. Perm power and gas come after final inspection, hopefully by the end of January.

Turns out that I could not use the Modern Aire Hood insert that I had taken delivery on, so if anyone needs a high powered hood for a 60 inch range, post here.

Who's pic is on the EuroStove Site with 2 turkeys on the the Rotisserie? Is that Amcook? What a feat!

All the installation guides I've read say that the (stainless) backsplash needs to be installed before the range or hood. We're going with tile (I'm very nervous about tile.) and the builder says that the rangetop and hood should be installed before the tiling gets done.

Does anyone have thoughts on that issue?

I want to know how he cooked those birds! Temperature/cooking time

details please!!!!

As soon as I am back in my home with my new kitchen I plan to rotisserie a turkey to make up for not being able to cook for thanksgiving 2010!

sadie

Wanderindiana,
The Culinarian is a free standing range. So your tile should be installed before the range goes in. It also has a flush fitting back so it can go up to the tile.

chopperace,

Thank you. I'm getting a rangetop, not a range. I don't see how it makes much difference.

But -- what are the factors that indicate if the tile should go in first, or the rangetop first?

I'm not sure if the range top sits flush against the wall but if it does I would have tile extend 6" below the range top for safty.

My understanding is that the reason to put tile behind is because the heat from the oven passes up along the back of the range. For a cooktop, the heat goes UP. Same reason you don't need to put tile on the sides of the thing.

But it's going to be built-in, and maybe that's why the tile can go in after the appliances. I just need to do some investigating so we space the hood intelligently. I don't want to be cutting lots of little tiles.

wanderindiana & chopperace:

What is important to me is location of any pattern that a tile back splash exhibits. Certainly the exact layout of a hood and range should be on the wall before any tile is installed. Sometimes logistics determine which is done first. If you have the hood and no tile, put the hood up and tile to it. If you have the tile and no hood, tile to the bottom of the hood line. What you should not do is tile first and find out later that the hood is taller or shorter than you were expecting requiring the rework of the tile installation. My hood will be installed before tile and the tile will butt to the bottom of the hood. My range will be positioned to the wall, a line drawn on the wall at the island trim height and removed before the tile work begins

I have heard the recommendation of putting one row of tile below the top of the range or range top, but I am not yet sure if I will do this because of the additional projection the range will go beyond the edge of the counter. I have 5/8" drywall behind the range and I don't believe that CA codes require that extra row of tile below the top of the range. The plate rail is already 3 inches beyond the counter and every half inch more (thickness of tile row behind range) does matter.

mtv

Has anyone experienced any problems with their Capital Culinarian?

I'm about to make a final decision on make and am favoring the 48" Culinarian with 6 23K BTU burners and 12" grill.
2nd choice is a similarly configured Bluestar, then probably Thermador or Wolf open burner.

This is a budgetary stretch with our home renovation so I want to make sure I won't regret it.

Also any thoughts as to manual vs. self-cleaning? It's almost $1,000 difference in price.

A few minor issues only...

- Burners needed minor adjustment, easy to do myself with some direction from Trevor. I still experience ignitor clicking one one burner while at simmer position.
- Bearing on one gliding oven rack was not free wheeling, replaced quickly after a single phone call (again, thanks to Trevor). Oven rack gliding action is not super smooth, but they work well enough.
- Center grate of my 30'' range requires some care to line up tab A into slot B before it can be set in place, and requires a bit of encouragement to fully seat. You waon't have this problem with a 48 incher.
- Oven temp seems to run a bit low, this was no biggee until I tried to heat up a pizza stone to 500 F but could only get to 475 (if knob is turned above the 500 F spot, the oven turns off 'cause it thinks you want to broil). I have not yet attempted to ask how to adjust this, I want to confirm the calibration of my oven temp gage before I mess with anything.

The self cleaning upgrade also gets you the oven rotisserie and gliding oven racks. I have not used my rotisserie yet, and I realize I probably won't use it often. Worth $1000? That's up to you. If you are OK with manual cleaning once in a while, don't need the rotisserie, and are fine with standard pull out racks, then you might pocket the $1000 (I'm sure you've already spent it elsewhere).

I am very pleased with my CC.

Jon

I have the 30" manual clean and that the bottom plate can be removed and put on a counter top to scrub on if needed makes things much easier. My messes always seem to be on the bottom:-) The plate IS heavy. The regular oven racks work well enough, heavy cookers don't cause them to hang up and they change out easy.

Jon, my center grate only will fit in one way easily, once I figured that out I didn't have to fuss. That just might be mine too.

Jon and Thusie,

Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences. I've been following your posts for a while and have found you both to be very insightful and informative. Very much appreciated.

Heading to Beverly, MA to see Trevor tomorrow. Unfortunately only a quick visit, but your posts will help us evaluate our options.

Comments from other members would be welcomed!

Cheers

Michael

Thusie is correct the center grate fits easy when inserted the right way. I had the same problem until I worked out i was trying to fit the grate the wrong way

My center grate won't fit easily no matter which end I have forward - one way is very difficult, the other way is stubborn. Jon

Rocket,

Send it back! ;)

Hey MTV, glad to hear from you. I don't recall seeing pix of your installed CC. Did I miss them?

Jon

itsnotrocketscience,

Have you had any other issues or concerns with your Culinarian aside from the center grates, rolling racks and wok ring?

I think a lot of owners of new products should follow your lead and get over the minor stuff.

Best,
Lew

Hey Lew,

Because you asked, here is complete list of issues I've had...

- Burner adjustment was needed, simple to do with instructions from Trevor. I still have a bit of ignitor clicking on one and sometimes two burners when on simmer. I'm interested in the reports from others that a fix may have solved this. Its a minor issue.
- Roller racks - not the smoothest rolling action but they work better than not having rollers. I had one bum roller bearing, a call to Trevor and a few days later I received two replacements, so now I have a spare.
- Center grate fit. The grate itself is actually fine. The holes in the SS plate below the grate are intentionally assymetrical (so the plate needs to be placed correctly). The feet of the grate fit into these holes. A cross member that sits below the plate is causing a slight interference fit with the grate. This interference has loosened up a bit with use, but its just not a great fit IMHO, on my range. As far as I know, nobody else has reported this so either I'm being too critical, or my range has just a bit of tolerance stack up that others don't. It is no big deal.
- The wok grate works great - I love it. My ''issue'' is only an observation that the tabs of the grate prevent an even seasoning higher up the wall of the wok if the wok is positioned on the grate the same way each time you use it. I have noticed no ill affect from this.
- Kick panel was dented. I was not at home when it was installed, my GC (who I trust completely) was confident the installers did not cause the damage. Trevor to the rescue, he took care of it, and within a week of me raising the issue, I had a replacement kick panel on my doorstep.
- Oven temperature seems a bit low and appears to need adjustment. I only recently confirmed with a second temperature measurement (I used a relatively slow acting oven thermometer next to a faster acting probe with remote digital readout). Both indicate the oven was running about 15F to 20F low at 350. This is not a big deal, but I noticed when I tried to heat a pizza stone to 500F, I could only get to 475F (you can't compensate by turning the knob above 500F because the oven turns off when the knob is above 500). Trevor sent a request to the factory to set up a service call. This was a recent request of mine and I told Trevor I'm in no hurry, so I await communication from the factory.
- It looks as though I have a goober of some sort on the inside of the outer plass panel on the oven door. Not sure how it got there or how I can clean it. It doesn't bother me.

That's it. I have not used the broiler or rotisserie yet (my Miele Speed oven is so versatile I have not used my CC oven that often - just DW and I, and I do much more range top cooking than baking, and not too many big feasts).

While I was heating my pizza stone, I felt the front of the oven door and it was only slightly warm. Clean-up is pretty simple, although I find myself spending more time cleaning it than my old range - new car syndrome I think. I have all four 23k BTU/min burners and so far I don't miss having a lower rated burner, although I have not tried to do anything that demanded extreme simmer. I think the center grate looks a bit odd, otherwise it is a fantastic looking range.

Love my CC.

Jon

Jon,

Thanks for the post--very informative.

I'm wondering why most manufacturers have multiple burners (say, one port pattern is for 23k-15k and another pattern with less ports is 9k-simmer) if one could cover the entire range adequately with one burner.

This may be why you hear clicking on your range. Since it has all 23k BTU rated burners and orifices it has trouble staying lit at lower BTUs (not enough gas for all the ports and they go out).

Please post what you find out about your oven temperatures being low.

Anyway, thanks again,
Lew

In my case the ignitor thinks the flame has gone out when in fact it hasn't. The burners are not having a problem staying lit. Ignitor positioning may be the culprit (which may affect the temperature sensing feature), but I'm only speculating. Someone else posted in another thread something about a fix to the ignitor mount (?) that apparently corrected the issue. When I receive a call to schedule a service appointment for adjusting oven temp, I'll ask to have ignitor clicking looked at also.

Jon

Rocket,

Installation is not complete. CC was positioned for granite counters and pulled for staining of concrete floors. This project is a new home, complete ground up. Pix should be up around the ides of March, So Beware!

I posted some of this in another thread so please forgive the repetition.

The new burners I got have the ignitors positioned at a slight angle and very close to the burner. I'm able to adjust the simmer level extremely low now. When I had the preproduction burners, I was able to "fix" problems with clicking by repositioning the ignitors with shims of solid copper wire or flexing the bracket slightly. On the two worst burners, I bored out the ignitor flame port just a tiny bit at a time using a titanium drill bit. This increased the flame right under the ignitor allowing the overall simmmer level to be adjusted lower without clicking.

BTW, the re-ignition sensor is based on conductivity not heat. The flame is actually more conductive than air so it effectively shorts the monopole ignition signal to ground. The instant the flame comes on there is a current surge through the flame to ground which is detected by the spark module which then turns off the ignition signal. This is why electronic ignition ranges should never be plugged into GFCI sockets since the current surge can appear to be a ground fault.

Ahhh... Thanks for the education, amcook.

Good grief, with that kind of knowledge I'm amazed you haven't just built something for yourself.

Amcook -- that's awfully interesting and so beyond the knowledge of jane-6pack (me). I thought all outlets in kitchens needed to be GFI's? I'm pretty sure the (LA) inspector won't pass something that isn't. If I'm right about the above two presumptions, is that implying that you install a non-GFI for use after the inspector departs?

amcook - good stuff. Interestingly, I still get some clicking even when there is a flame, albeit very small, emitting from the hole next to the ignitor, and the flame appears to be touching the ignitor.

I'm glad it was helpful. It's kind of a compulsion with me to figure out how things work.

aliris19,
If I read NEC correctly, GFCI protection is required on sockets that service counter top locations. This is further defined as above counter locations and exterior island sockets within 18" (I think) of the counter. There are further specific exceptions for sockets that are not normally accessible (i.e. under sink, etc.) and behind appliances that are not easily moved. The socket for the range is most likely excluded from GFCI protection for any one of these exceptions. Keep in mind NEC can be superseded by local codes so check with your contractor or look up your local codes yourself.

itsnotrocketscience,
I saw the same behavior and attribute it to not having a substantial enough flame to produce the sufficient conduction necessary to be detected. There's also a relationship between the "richness" of gas/air mixture that affects the conductivity of the flame. By increasing the overall flame level or decreasing the air mixture level can help. One more thing for you to try is to close down the opening in the venturi tube a bit more to reduce the amount of air in the mixture. It's a delicate balance to make sure you don't get incomplete combustion which will result in black soot on the bottom of your pans.

Good luck.

> aliris said:
>... I thought all outlets in kitchens needed to be GFI's? I'm pretty sure the (LA)
> inspector won't pass something that isn't. If I'm right about the above two
> presumptions, is that implying that you install a non-GFI for use after the
> inspector departs?

I couldn't find info on CC's, and I'm no expert on building codes, but just this week I was going through the install instructions for a Sub-Zero refrigerator and in the site preparation for electrical section they explicitly state:

"...Follow the National Electrical Code and local codes and ordinances when installing the receptacle. A separate circuit, servicing only this appliance is required. A ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) is not recommended and may cause interruption of operation"

I also looked up the Wolf gas range installation instructions and they have similar wording:

"...The [electrical] service should have its own 15 amp circuit breaker. A ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) is not recommended and may cause interruption of service."

Viking gas range installation instructions are more vague in regards to a GFCI but provide more guidance:

"A GFI shall be used if required by NFPA-70 (National Electrical Code), federal/state/local laws, or local ordinances.
- The required use of a GFI is normally related to the location of a receptacle with respect to any significant sources of water or moisture.
- Viking Range Corporation will NOT warranty any problems resulting from GFI outlets which are not installed properly or do not meet the requirements below.

If the use of a GFI is required, it should be:
- Of the receptacle type (breaker type or portable type NOT recommended)
- Used with permanent wiring only (temporary or portable wiring not recommended)
- On a dedicated circuit (no other receptacles, switches or loads in the circuit)
- Connected to a standard breaker or appropriate size (GFI breaker of the same size NOT recommended)
- Rated for Class A (5 mA +/- 1 mA trip current) as per UL 943 standard
- In good condition and free from any loose-fitting gaskets (if applicable in outdoor situations)
- Protected from moisture (water, steam, high humidity) as much as reasonably possible."

And as amcook stated, there are certain distance requirements associated to a receptacle, and of course, any local/state/province codes trump any manufacturer instructions, so some homework will be required to determine if GFCI's need to be installed.

GFI not required for wall sockets 12" Above Finish Floor, unless below a wall hung sink or other water source within 18". GFI required at kitchen counter splash area and wherever in immediate proximity to water source or food prep area.

Not required under counter locations, behind refrigerators, ranges, trash compactors, etc. by NEC or any reasonable municipality.

Quickly...a service rep from the Capital Factory visited my house yesterday, he replaced all burner assemblies with the slightly modified new design...the ignitor assembly appears to be mounted a bit differently, and there is a circular thin plate that occupies most of the space in the center of the burner (something about impeding air circulation up the center of the burner)? My igniters no longer click on simmer. He checked my oven temp with his thermocouple and readout which showed my oven temp is right on, so no adjustment was made. I will need to follow up and check the accuracy of my two new oven thermometers (one a quick reading digital probe) that both read lower than his instrument.

Jon

Rocket,

When was you delivery date? I'm wondering if I have the same design deficiency. Thanks,

mtv

Hey Rocket,

I posted before I looked back to see that you took delivery first week in December. I prolly have the same simmer clickers. Oh well, I'll just have to get fixed like you did . . . . . . ;)

I just called to check.

My range is in and delivery scheduled for Saturday.

I can barely contain myself!

mtv...look down the center of your igniter assemblies. If you see an empty annular space occupied only by the small bracket that holds the igniter, than you may have the original design. My burners now have a shiny thin metal disk in the center that occupies most of the open space in the center of each burner. The ignitors appear to be held in position by these disks. If that doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll snap a picture.

The service tech drove up from Sante Fe Springs to my home in Thousand Oaks. He said he services all of California, so I assume a drive to Ventura should not be a problem for him.

Jon

I know few of you who have received the CC with grills and just wondering of how you found the grill inhouse for cooking, when it comes to:

- even heat over the grill.
- smell after cooking as i am assuming the grill will have a metallic and/or food smell like outside grills.
- Taste/Searing qualities

and finally if you love it or hate it.

Jon,

Do you think that everyone's burners need this field (in-house) fix? So the casting on the replacments was the same but there were parts added to it?

-Lew

Lew,

I hesitate answering your question because the only truthful answer I can give is...I don't know. The fix sure helped me with what was at least an annoyance. Does anyone else need the fix? Well that depends on how their burners operate. Mine operated fine, I just got some igniter clicking while at simmer because the auto re-ignite system thought the flame was out when it wasn't.

I did not inspect the burners side by side. I mostly tried to stay out of the technician's way to let him do his job, but I didn't see anything obvious. I want to say the hole adjacent to the igniter is a tad larger than before, but again I didn't carefully compare old vs. new.

Jon

We are looking at the White color. Does anyone know what RAL number this corresponds to?

Although they publish the RAL color codes, my rep says they do not provide color samples in any form and that one must rely on what the web shows for RAL #, along with what your own monitor settings reveal. Not comforting in the least, and not what I would expect for such a $$ purchase.

I know that Viking has color samples readily available; so I called their customer service department today to find out if their colors go by the RAL standard. Did this in an attempt to see if what Viking portrays in their samples would be the same as (in some cases) the Culinarian. The Viking customer service person said "our colors are proprietary"; to which I said "that is fine, but can you tell me if they are based on RAL color standards?". The customer service rep for Viking replied - "what is RAL?".

Bottom line here is, ordering a color other than stainless steel or black is anyone's guess as far as I can determine, and a big flaw.

I like the Culinarian RAL 6021 (light green) and the RAL 3005 (wine red). If anyone has any suggestions on how to see any of these true colors in some way or fashion outside of the web - please chime in.

For something so attractive (a color choice)to be available and to then not have supporting samples, does not support the product.

I have the 10 color samples which I send out to my potential customers. You should contact who ever you intend to purchase the range from and have them see what can be done.

Hey Trevor. I live in Los Angeles - is there a showroom out here I can go to? I'm just checking out a few ranges for my kitchen. Thx

Also, I've read elsewhere that there may be delays with delivery. Is this true or just speculation?

Thanks
-Mike

Trevor,

Am I crazy or a did your website used to have an alternative oven handle configuration for the Culinarian at one point? If I recall correctly it was squared off instead of round.

I really liked the look better than the standard.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can offer.

Not Trevor, but back in April when I was looking at ordering the CC 48" self-clean, I did speak to Trevor. Back then I was quoted a delivery time of 8-10 weeks. I had fully intended to place the order with him. While I was shopping for other appliances, I found another dealer who quoted me a delivery of 4-6 weeks. So I placed my order through the other dealer. At 4.5 weeks, I received a phone call that my range was in. That was over a month ago. Unfortunately, my contractor can't start work until July, so it's been sitting in the dealer's warehouse.

I was also interested in the squared handles. I think it was $400 or something like that. After seeing the CC side by side with other ranges, I decided that the squared handles made the range look more like a GE Monogram. I decided that the curved handle was a signature style of Capital that made it stand out. Plus I didn't think it was worth the money just for aesthetics. It adds nothing to the function of the range.

The square end caps were avaialble for the pre production ranges, this offer was withdrawn due to lack of interest and the need to purchase so many at one time, it became not cost effective