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Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Posted by building_a_house (My Page) on
Sun, Oct 14, 12 at 16:35

So I have been researching a 36" range and was all set to purchase the Culinarian and am now reading that it can't properly simmer? I am not a gourmet chef but even this might be a dealbreaker for me.

What should I be looking at instead? Or is this a non-issue?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I simmer just fine on mine.

Dedicated simmer burner is rumored on the way.

Other options.

Bluestar RNB(hot oven door) or American Range Performer Series(not a lot of feedback on this one).


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

If you're not hung up on open burners, DCS and Wolf ranges have excellent simmer capabilities with their dual stacked burners. Each burner has two separate burner rings to achieve an outstanding simmer. Some people on this forum denigrate sealed burners but in my experience my 17.5K sealed burner is more than adequately high and frankly I consider the simmer capability more important. I can't speak from personal experience, but from the postings on this forum it is possible to fine tune the burners on the CC to achieve a reasonable simmer but I don't know it compares to the simmer achieved on a dual stacked sealed burner. I personally would not want a dedicated simmer burner - I like being able to simmer on any burner.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Thanks for the postings thus far.

Let me just add that I am not interested in retrofitting anything (like I have seen done on a few of the CC ranges) or rigging anything just to get it to work.

If I am paying $5K for a range I want it to work appropriately out of the box.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Provided Capital is off the table I agree with Dee American Range or Bluestar.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

No, the CC is definitely not off the table assuming someone that isn't a professional cook can simmer with it.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I love my dual stacked burners(Wolf). I want my simmer on every burner. I use that daily. Others are thrilled with their choices and high BTUs are the priority. If you haven't done so, I would try to see and cook on the ones you are looking at. Have you considered induction? You probably will get the most range of heat on it. Some consider simmer a non issue for them but others do consider it an issue as evidenced by the multiple threads. I am of the philosophy that there is not one perfect range for all cooks. There are some work arounds at each end of the spectrum so I would look at what you use the most.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

What's the price comparison of a 36" Wolf compared to the CC? Wolf doesn't disclose their pricing which is annoying when shopping around.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Our BS simmers fine on the 9k simmer burner. For a burner size comparison, we've also tried using the large 22k burner adjusted and tweaked to a minimum of heat but its still to hot for us. We do a fair amount of cooking with low head and simmer and without the small 9k burner we would have been disappointed. We're very pleased with our purchase.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

CC, Blue Star, American Range, DCS are all an option. Lately the more I read about the CC the more I dislike it. Simmer problem, relatively small usable space in the oven, etc.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Again, CC simmers at 140.

Each city and each house has its own gas pressure. Elevation varies from place to place. To get my simmer down to 140 Capital sent out a tech to adjust for too much air. It was no bother and it cost me nothing. For some other city in a different house my out of box calibration may have been fine.

To get it down to 125 I use simmer plate.

And each burner will sear like a mutha. DCS and Wolf can't.

The 36" CC has the same "usable" space in the oven as any other pro-style range.

Take you pans,sheets,roasters and bakeware to the showroom yourself.

See If you can fit something in Wolf,Electrlux or any other range oven that you can't fit in the 36" CC.

Unless you have some strange super tall bakeware I bet you can't.

The larger ovens are bragging rights that simply mean more time and gas to preheat.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I love my Wolf AG!! The 16,000 BTU is plenty. How often are you going to cook on High? On high it sears beautifully, and boils water rapidly. I use medium a lot. I use my simmer almost everyday to keep things warm or just to reheat something slowly. Love it Love it Love it!! Every burner can simmer.
I also was looking at the cc, but consistent issues and inconsistent customer service drove me away.
Trust yur gut. nothing is perfect. But some things are closer than others to being perfect.
good luck


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

If you have a chance go to one of the Bluestar and Wolf cooking demonstration around the country and see for yourself. Maybe visit a dealer with live CC.

You can see the Wolf gas cooktop in action....wait no you can't. They only use induction in Wolf cooking demonstation now.... gee I wounder why?

I have used a Wolf residential gas cooktop. No it does not sear beautifully. If you think that sears beautifully you don't know what a beauiful sear looks like.

Given the same pot and conditions you are looking at about 50% more time to boil 1 gallon of water in the Wolf gas burner vs the CC.


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Simmering

One more point about sealed burner vs open burner simmering.

Although lower powered sealed burners may have a lower AVERAGE simmering temperature the CC has a more EVEN simmering temperature.

Right under that ring will be significantly hotter than the average. Something to consider if simmering a half-portion of ultra delicate sauce that seems to be so popular all of a sudden.

Because all these people need to simmer tiny amounts of ultra delicate French sauces all of a sudden.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Love my bs. Simmers ultra low. No issues after almost 4.5 yrs. Would buy again. 9k burner (simmer) is also fantastic for things like a bialatti.

Dee is correct, oven capacity on 36" models is not an issue. It is most exaggerated on the 30" models and the 48" and 60" models to a lesser extent.

I'd stick to bs, cc or ar for the performance advantages. If you go sealed I would go wolf, as the trade off for lower power will be the best build quality, reliability, customer service and brand recognition/resale. All the other sealed pro styled ranges are just "me too's" in my opinion, although everyone has a unique set of criteria so just take from all of these posts what you think applies to you.

Good luck on your search.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

"Because all these people need to simmer tiny amounts of ultra delicate French sauces all of a sudden."

Snort!!

I too am amazed that many whose previous cooking masterwork was mac and chesse are now worried about creating Bordelaise with yuzu ginger and truffle oil as a finishing sauce.

If I need to simmer lower than < 125 I have my lab lay down next to my sauce pan. Of course it takes me three days to make a proper consume' that way.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

What's the price comparison of a 36" Wolf compared to the CC? Wolf doesn't disclose their pricing which is annoying when shopping around.

Wolf SubZero now has its MSRPs online at its website, glory be. 36" Wolf all-gas with 6 burners is $6060; dual fuel 6 burners $9015; price goes up for each model if you add a grill or griddle.

For a quick online pricing comparison, AJ Madison shows CC 36" 6 burners $5628 for manual clean, $6873 for self-clean with rotisserie; higher prices for each with grill or griddle.

On the CC, I got significantly better prices than AJ Madison's numbers from a local dealer, but the Wolf quotes were almost exactly MSRP.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

The use of a low simmer is not just for delicate sauces. I melt butter, for example, and don't have to stand over it and watch it - I can leave it for a while and it won't burn. Similarly, I've accidentally left things on simmer for a while and forgotten about it and the pot didn't boil down or burn. I honestly don't know if you can do that on a properly adjusted CC or Bluestar simmer burner but for me it's now an important feature.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Do you expect your tools to be an enabler? Do you expect your tool to give you possibilities or do you prefer to adapt to your tool? That answer is different for different people.

People talk about simmer burners like the only thing they are good for is warming a hollendaise for hours on end.

Like tyguy and weismann I have found a dedicated simmer burner useful for all sorts of things, most recently for making cheese. Whether it's keeping 4 gallons of milk at exactly 90 degrees F for an hour or keeping melted wax from getting too hot, that simmer burner is an enabler for me. Of course I could get around it, I could make a larger burner work, but I used my money to buy the tool I needed, not provide me with handyman projects.

Thanksgiving is coming and that simmer burner will see almost constant use from dawn to dusk.

Other people prefer having all burners the same size. There is use to that as well, i.e. being able to place a griddle over any two or being able to choose any burner for maximum heat. That's their preference.

Got just over two years now on the BS.

-Stooxie


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

"If I need to simmer lower than < 125 I have my lab lay down next to my sauce pan. Of course it takes me three days to make a proper consume' that way. "

You can do that??? I simmer my stocks on any burner on my DCS. If I put the pot anywhere near my lab, she'd eat it long before it was reduced.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

How about a Capital Precision? I like mine very much. The lower BTUs from the sealed burners haven't been a problem, even for stir frying, and it simmers nicely. I can fit 6 loaves of bread in my 36". The only problem: no fancy colors. :( Well, that and the fact that the oven doesn't heat evenly unless it's on convection, in my experience.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Posted by deeageaux on Mon, Oct 15, 12 at 2:12
You can see the Wolf gas cooktop in action....wait no you can't. They only use induction in Wolf cooking demonstation now.... gee I wounder why?

My guess is that the induction range of heat beats every gas range including CC. They still have demos for gas though and will let you try it out.

I have used a Wolf residential gas cooktop. No it does not sear beautifully. If you think that sears beautifully you don't know what a beauiful sear looks like.

Interesting that there are no threads from Wolf or DCS owners complaining they don't have enough heat. The sear is all about the temperature of the cooking surface not the BTUs of the burner. There are restaurants that sear steaks on preheated rocks with no heat under them. A very basic understanding of science and you too will be able to get a sear on 15K BTUs or even lower burner. First choose a pan that will hold heat. Cast iron is ideal for this and the more mass the better. Heat it until it is smoking hot but not to the flash point. You are ready to go. With cast iron, the slower you heat it on the burner, the more even the heat will be. It gives it more time to equilibrate. Some use the oven as well to preheat. The downside with cast iron is that you will not be able to turn down the heat quickly. If you stirfry larger amounts a lot with a thinner wok, you might have to have the higher BTU burner for quick recovery of heat. We just do 1-2 lbs at a time so our heat is adequate.

Given the same pot and conditions you are looking at about 50% more time to boil 1 gallon of water in the Wolf gas burner vs the CC.

Where is your data?

Even if it took 12 minutes instead of 8 to boil water, it wouldn't matter to me, but if it matters to you then it looks like you have the right burners.

Although lower powered sealed burners may have a lower AVERAGE simmering temperature the CC has a more EVEN simmering temperature.
Right under that ring will be significantly hotter than the average. Something to consider if simmering a half-portion of ultra delicate sauce that seems to be so popular all of a sudden.

I'm not sure what you mean here but there are many discussions about evenness of heat on this forum. The interface between the food and the heat, the pan, is the most important thing with these ranges. Something with an adequate amount of copper($$$)or aluminum($), both great conductors of heat even out the heat. I would say most people shelling out this kind of money for a range, have fairly good pans or could afford to buy them.

It is amazing to have the choices we have. It is interesting to read about how people use their ranges.I have used my burners to sous vide steaks for the ones that have to have well done either by preference or because they are pregnant. To the OP, I hope you get the best range for you.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I am almost certain that "dee" works or somehow represents CC.
As I stated before, trust your gut.
Don't buy something without doing homework.
Go out and work with as many ranges as you can.
Call the company's customer service before you buy with questions and see what type of responses you get. Find out about repair service. I called the repair people in my area and discussed the brands i was interested in. They gave me great feedback!!
It is a big decision-take your time.
Good Luck.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

We just started using our Bluestar...the heat distribution is amazing. We went from using typical sealed gas burners and even with good pans, they mainly heated the outside of the pan, leaving the middle cooler. With the BS design, the heat distribution is completely different, with very noticable eveness. We were able to simmer a big pot of soup on the main burners without difficulty and when you need HOT, it really cranks out the heat. Having the separate simmer burner is also a benefit to get even lower if needed.
It is nice to experience what others here have expressed so passionately.
Caspian.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I've owned my CC for over a year now and I have had no problems simmering. I routinely simmer steel cut oats, stone ground grits, and congee without issue. I also have no problem poaching eggs and fish. Basically, it's a non issue for me for everyday cooking. What it doesn't do without a doubleboiler is maintain a very low warming temperature.

My wife doesn't really cook. When she does use the range it's for simple things. She has not had any problems with the simmering. Frankly, she's had more issues with the top end and too much heat. But she has adapted.

My mother and sister, who are used to a KA sealed burner range, cooked at my house two weeks ago. I have a niece who's allergic to a lot of foods. So they took turns cooking small portions of food for my niece throughout the day. Neither one of them had any issues with the simmering on my range.

My best advice for you is to find a place with a working CC and decide for yourself if simmering is an issue. It is hotter that most home cooks are used to, so there is a learning curve. But it's not a steep learning curve. It's more of a familiarity thing.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Whatever low or not so low simmer that Culinarian owners speak of, the Bluestar simmer on it's smaller burner is almost 2/3 lower - it is the difference between having a Birthday cake with 90 candles or having one with 30 candles! There is no way around this.

The Bluestar medium burner also produces a lower low than anything a Culinarian can produce no matter how much you fiddle with the ignitor system or air flow of the C.C.

Only the simmer capacity on the largest Bluestar burner compares to what C.C. offers on it's one size fits all theme.

I use the smaller and medium burners all the time and if I wanted to, I could use the large Bluestar burner to simmer on, giving me the 'Culinarian experience'. Why would I want to do this? I would not, because I know better. I think Capital is banking on the fact that most people don't know any better.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Posted by Caspian101 on Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 14:17
We went from using typical sealed gas burners and even with good pans, they mainly heated the outside of the pan, leaving the middle cooler.

I will clarify that you can have very good pans that are made of metals that do not transfer heat very evenly. These would include pans made of cast iron, steel and stainless steel. Even when they have layers, the amount of heat conducting metals is "proprietary" so it is hard to tell if there is enough heat conductive metal to work. If you have pans that do not conduct heat well, the BS burner configuration would help with that up to a point. If you have a large frying pan,maybe 14", the heat is more concentrated to the center and it can become difficult to heat the outside of the pan. I have cast iron and heavy aluminum 14" skillets. The cast iron has a ring where the heat it is. I can cook potato pancakes in the aluminum pan without rotating them and they cook very evenly. This is an article that explains heat transfer in cookware.

Here is a link that might be useful: Heat Conductivity of Common Cookware Materials


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Only the simmer capacity on the largest Bluestar burner compares to what C.C. offers on it's one size fits all theme.

There you go again. You obviously haven't seen a live CC yet. I have compared both the CC and BS live ranges. The CC burner's range is certainly wider than the BS' large burner. Your assumption that just because both burners have a similar top end, that they must have the same bottom is wrong. Do yourself and the rest of the GW community a favor and look at a live CC in person before making ignorant comments. Until then, stick to what you know, whatever that might be. The large BS burner might go as low as the CC burner IF you lift and rotate the grate to raise the pot higher.

For the OP and anyone else concerned about simmering, I uploaded some videos I captured this morning from making a single portion of steel cut oats in a small 1 1/2 qt pot. I had already started cooking when I remembered this thread and grabbed my iPhone.

First video was captured after I brought 1 1/4 cups of water to a boil, added 1/4 cup oats, let it come back to a boil and lowered to simmer. That's when it occurred to me that I should capture this so went to get my phone.

http://youtu.be/OV2LJjJukCI

I didn't think that was enough "proof" so in the second video, I decided to raise the temp to create a boil (but without ruining my daughter's breakfast) and then lowered to simmer so you can see it transition to a low simmer. The moment I turn it to simmer, you will hear four clicks of the igniter as the burner settles to the sudden change to simmer. Those are the only clicks you will hear.

http://youtu.be/pX3TLd4f8WE

I walked away for a few minutes and came back to a simmer that was too low. This third video shows what I came back to.

http://youtu.be/bmbAJiL-nSI

At this rate, it might have taken 45-60 minutes for breakfast. That's time I didn't have. So I raised the temperature to speed up the cooking. This final video shows the position of the knob and the more rigorous simmer that I needed.

http://youtu.be/wdxgc8GTtwg

So as you can see, when THIS CC owner says he doesn't have a problem simmering, he really doesn't.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Wow, jscout, watching those videos really has me wondering what the fuss has been about all this time.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I know what the fuss is and it is warranted. Without calibration, the range will always be it or miss out of the box. Mine definitely needed to be adjusted. The range gets installed by a plumber who doesn't know appliances or serviced buy a technician who doesn't understand gas. This is why I've been preaching that Capital needs some form of "White Glove" service for their customers. Part of the service needs to include a program that ensures the techs get some form of training on their product. Training doesn't have to be expensive classroom stuff. There's nothing wrong with well done training videos backed up by a service hotline so techs can speak the same language with someone on the other end.

That said, do I wish the CC could simmer like much smaller burners? Of course I do. Has lacking that really low level of simmer or tiny burner ever hindered me from preparing a meal? No. Quite the opposite, in fact. The range has enabled me to do more than any other range I've owned.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

But does not the fact still remain that the true limitation on the CC simmering is the ignition system? You can only turn it down until it starts clicking and that seems to be quite variable according to the posts. Jscout, looks like you've had some success adjusting your range.

In the end you pick your preference. All burners equal or multiple burner options.

-Stooxie


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

jscout, One thing you might note though. You are using a very small pan and some of your heat would go up the sides. You can see that by the fact the bubbles all are on the side of the pan. I wonder how much more heat capture you would get with a wider pan.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Wekick, no, that was due to me turning the burner too high to intentionally create a boil so that I could get on with the video while still getting breakfast out. I don't normally need the burner on high for a small pan. On the CC, the middle setting will send all the heat up center of the pan creating even heat. It actually works very well for a small pan. There's another thread where I posted pictures of this, but it's tough to do a search on an iPhone.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Just found that other thread...Towards the end.

Here is a link that might be useful: Other thread


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Bogus! I've seen the C.C. and watched jscouts videos. The Bluestar burner flame size can be set just as low as the Culinarian, but has 60 fewer ports. So it simmers 2/3 lower than anything you can get out of the C.C. with a hope and a prayer. And the medium Bluestar also has a lower simmer. It's just fact.

As I said, it's the difference between a cake with 90 birthday candles on the C.C. versus 30 on the Bluestar. That's a huge difference!

The sensitivity of the ignitor system plays a small role here- ultimately it's about the number of burner holes and their placement. The largest Bluestar burner will simmer about the same as the C.C. simmer because it has just about the same numbers of gas ports. The other Bluestar burner sizes will do much better than anything C.C. can produce. Only in your dreams can a C.C. simmer like a Bluestar.

Except for the guy who plugged up all his C.C. holes with muffler cement. That is an option if you want a simmer approaching what Bluestar has.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

jscout, There is still more surface area on a bigger pan so more area to capture the heat. Is the simmer just as good on a bigger pan?


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

wekick - I was just thinking the same thing; I think jscout's example may benefit from the tiny pot. It's great that that works well and all, but I'd love to see about a quarter inch of water brought down from a boil to the lowest simmer in say a 10 or 12 inch skillet. Not just on the CC but also on the various BS burners.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I really couldn't care less what you buy, but I can say that my CC is the best range i've ever used. Is simmering it's strength? No. But it does simmer fine. Whoever suggested you can't melt butter on a CC without burning it on simmer is doing you a disservice.

Do what I did. Go to a showroom where you can actually cook on a Wolf, a Blue Star, a Dacor, A CC! Then take your pick!

If I were choosing again today, i'd buy the CC again.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Stooxie, missed your question. The igniter is a possble limit. But that would apply to all burners anyway.

wekick and FOAS, I showed vids and pix of the CC simmering in a large vessel a few months ago. Back then it was "ok, so it simmers in a large pot, what about a small?" Now it's "ok, it simmers in a small pot what about a large?" It just keeps going back and forth. When any owner says or shows they can simmer, they're called liars. It's worse than politics. Yes, there are CC owners who have trouble simmering. Once calibrated, most have at least an acceptable simmer, at least judging by what follow-ups there are. While the CC may not have the lowest simmer, it's certainly not as bad as some non-owners insist it is. I for one was fortunate enough to see all the ranges I was considering live, so I know what the ranges can do.

That's why the best advise I can give, as reiterated by BFF, is for buyers to go see for themselves and be their own judge.

Oh and FOAS, I totally agree with you. I'd also love to see videos and or photos of the simmering on all BS burners, especially the large one.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Sorry jscout - I'm not as regular of a reader as I used to be and must have missed the bigger pan. Don't mind me!


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

No worries, FOAS. I'm not as regular of a reader as I used to be either.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

jscout, thanks for posting that. It would seem that Capital would do themselves a favor to service the range upon installation like BS does. It is a great thing to have a range you love whatever it is.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I was about to write a comment on my thoughts regarding alex's post claiming a 22k bs burner can simmer as low as a cc. I was all prepared to write that in my opinion that wouldn't be the case, because although I understand and buy his argument about the number of ports or "birthday candles" there are also issues such as how close the ignitors are placed to the flame, the spark module etc. I was going to say that the 22k bs burner probably has the possibilty of going as low maybe with some mods to the ignitors and such but then just last night this is what I saw....

My wife was boiling a very small amount of noodles in a very small pot (tri-ply calphalon)that she was going to add to our individual bowls of beef soup ( we prefer to add the noodles after soup is cooked). She used the big burner to heat the water to a boil then she added the noodles and after it started boiling again she turned it to simmer. I was doing my own thing preparing the other parts of the meal as I walked by the pot and was taken back at what I saw. I actually stopped in my tracks and reversed a bit to take a second look because I noticed that the pot was simmering without any bubbling what so ever. There was just a very small amount of steam comming off the water. I turned the heat back up and within seconds it returned to a rolling boil.

So I guess my point is alex may be correct in that a properly adjusted 22k burner on bs may come close to a cc for simmer if carefully adjusted.

Unfortunately I didn't have any kind of recording device with me to make a video, but I do have this older pic of the burner on low. If you notice there are about two ports in this picture where the flame is not lit at the moment the pic was taken. The flames dance around a bit, I also will get the occasional clicking if winds run across the top of the burner, very similar in nature to what I have heard others descibe here with their cc's set very low.

I will try and post a video at some point if I find the time.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

jscout, THANK YOU so much for the videos and the commentary. I was having some doubts about the capabilities of the CC, and you've put my mind at ease.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Wife just made a hollandaise yesterday on the CC & had no problems with breakage. Achieving simmer is not an issue - if you wish to simmer all day then I suggest a french top.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

SIMMER, SIMMER, SIMMER...

First, I would like to thank all the GW contributors of kitchen/appliance forums. All the previous posts helped me with my purchase. It would only be fair to contribute my experiences and observations with my Capital Culinarian 48"( 6burner+grill) and capital single wall oven.
I received the range and observed the clicking with simmering. I live in the Hudson Valley area of NY. Applicare was notified and tech was in my home within 7days, excellent service! Trevor from Eurostoves and Bob from Capital Customer Svc worked with me on this issue.
I was even more excited to test the simmer feature. I simmered for 9 1/2 hours an AllClad 8QT pot, a LeCreuset 6.75 dutch pot, a Tramontina 6.5 dutch pot all filled with water.
After 9 1/2hrs AllClad had no bubbles, just a bit of steam and 4qts of water left in the pot. LeCreuset and Tramontina had few bubbles and 3qts of water left.
I looked at Wolf, American Range and BlueStar. For me, I was looking for a range that had all the must have's: high btu, grill, rotisserie. The GW forum help me decide open burners over sealed. Look for something that suits your needs. Will you really be cooking, or will this be a showpiece. Good luck with your purchase. Martha


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Look for something that suits your needs. Will you really be cooking, or will this be a showpiece.

This is the key. The more you can match what you buy to your needs, the greater utility you will have.
While high BTUs are the main priority for some, others need the really low simmer. Simmering water is much different than simmering split pea soup, apple butter or tomato sauce, which is what I am likely to be simmering.

Showpieces,whatever brand or price appear in kitchens where there was no or minimal rational thought given to the utility of the appliance in relation to how you cook.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Ladies and Gentlemen, WE HAVE SIMMER!

The guy came a couple of days ago and did the knobs-off screwdriver thing that I'm sure we've all seen. The simmer is now beautiful. I'm not sure what the best test is that would demonstrate how good/bad the simmer is. I don't make delicate sauces but I DO appreciate the ability to melt butter without its getting brown right away, to scramble eggs slowly, and to have a vat of spaghetti sauce on for over an hour without constant supervision.

This is the 48" range top with six burners and grill. The grill works great too!


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Looking at RANGETOPS. 48" with griddle. I have read EVERY thread regarding BS and CC. I have pricing from AJ Madison since there is no one within a 250 sq mile radius with either. The BS is 4k the CC is 3800...good or bad?
The sales person at AJ told me the CC has a totally new Simmer burner for 2013 and that we will have it...Is this true or is it the same? Wife definitely wants a low simmer but also wants the power.
Which one is easier to clean and work on as I will probably be the one working on it. Remember this is not a full range just a top. I've also read the griddle is more even on the CC. True or False?
I appreciate the input!


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

If you want to buy a CC online, buy it from Trevor at EuroStoves, not AJM. I have nothing against AJM, but Trevor is in a whole different league when it comes to customer service.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

It is true that ALL culinarian ranges and rangetops produced after the 2nd of Jan 2013 will have a "Small Pan Burner".

Unless you tell who you buy it from to make sure the one you get is made after the 2nd it will not come with one.

Thank you Peter very kind comment.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Trevor

Is this small pan burner something that can be retro-fitted into an existing CC range? I have a CC that has sat unused due to house renovation, so I don't know if I'll even have a "simmer problem" because I have not started to cook on it yet. But I'd like to know what my options are if I do experience an issue. Thanks!


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Just to pile on the glowing Trevor comments - I didn't buy my CC from Trevor but he walked me through adjusting the range when I was dialing it in for my specific needs. My dealer didn't have any idea of what I was talking about.

A very kind, patient man and very generous with his time.

(Next time, if he's selling what I'm buying, he gets the sale.)

Doc


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Trevor, my man,

Can you expound on the "Small Pan Burner"?

Is it a different burner with smaller/fewer ports or just the same old Capital burner de-rated with a smaller orifice so it can simmer but which also must forgo the 23,000 on the top end?

Is it a heat plate/diffuser?

Is the same burner raised or lowered?

"Small Pan Burner" exudes marketing trickery to me.

And I'm telling you, right here, nothing upsets my applecart more than verbose marketing trickery.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

The new Small Pan Burner will be the same as the original 23k burner but with only the center circle with holes.

Call it what they will....... was it market trickery or just trying to be original and different, who knows and who really cares.

THE CC HAS A SIMMER BURNER......


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

"THE CC HAS A SIMMER BURNER......"

That's an interesting statement Trevor, as Capital, along with yourself, have proclaimed since the inception of the Culinarian, that the 23,000 BTU burner was also a true simmer burner.

It's exactly what I said, man, marketing malarky. "Small Pan Burner" instead of "Simmer Burner."

It's most beateous marketing wording on their end.

The 23,000 BTU burner, by most accounts on this website, can't hold a true simmer, so Capital is calling this simmer burner a "Small Pan Burner" as to not make all the proclamations about the other burner seem incongruous or outright false, so they spun it into a "Small Pan Burner."

I will; however, give Capital credit on a capital misdirection.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I actually like the phase "small pan burner" to me, it makes more sense- you do turn it up after all, at least some times, and for smaller pans it's perfect.

Simmer is relative- a large pan with quarts of liquid will simmer fine on a large burner that's turned down. The problem was always small pan use and delicate simmers for smaller amounts.

I'm glad they did this. And I would also recommend Trevor.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I am getting a CC soon (I know, after all the problems I had with my Precision I'm still giving Capital another chance) that's supposed to arrive next month, but I'm not sure if it'll have the new "small pan" or whatever you want to call it burner. Given that I'm adding quite a bit of money to go to the Culinarian, so I really hope they include it, or at least send it forth when it's available.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I know this is an old question, but I just have to answer it. The simmer is magnificent. I had some excess gravy cooking on the stove and instead of turning it off, I turned it to simmer accidentally.

I proceeded to serve and eat a large meal with tons of friends, drinking wine and generally doing what one does with a dinner party for a couple hours. I went to the kitchen to get cleaning, and noticed my big pot was still on. I freaked out and grabbed it off, expecting a burnt mess, but the gravy had just become thicker and had not burnt. Very good simmer, best I have used.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

"The 23,000 BTU burner, by most accounts on this website, can't hold a true simmer"

There are at least 3 posts, just in this one here thread, that says the Capital can INDEED simmer (I'm not going to get into what is a True Simmer") but the 3 folks that posted are happy and That's What Counts!!!

Are you doing "Selective Reading" beefstew01, or did you just miss those posts?

I suspect the Capital will simmer just about as well as any gas range, that is not using a "specific simmer burner", yea you can turn those way down low, like my induction, but what's the point of keeping something at 112 F for 8 or 9 hours, heck they do that in Arizona without even a cooktop or range!

Gary


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

building_a_house,

I'll weigh in as the owner of a 48 inch CC rangetop with a grill, using it for about 17 months now.

I had some difficulty with the simmer, even after a couple of technician visits and my own adjustments. With all of the burner ports physics dictates that it will likely simmer hotter than your old stove, so you'll just have to get used to it. On the other hand, you will have so much fun cooking on it that you might not notice!

Last weekend a foodie friend from New Orleans visted and we made Chicken Fricassee, Shrimp Sauce Piquant, Sausage and Chicken Jambalaya, Stir Fried Green Beans (blackened), and Grilled Asparagus (on the CC grill). He was blown away by the capabilities of the burners.

I am also the guy who modified one of the burners to be a simmer burner by plugging the outer two rings of burner holes with high temperature muffler putty and swapping out the orifice. It works like a charm and it's likely what you'll get with the new CC "Small Pot Burner." One ultra-low simmer burner out of six works just fine for me, and you can turn that burner on high and it will cook hotter than most of the burners out there on "regular stoves," in part because the open burner configuration puts the heat directly on the pan.

So what would I buy now if I had it to do over -- at least in terms of rangetops because I cannot comment on the ovens in the range? I might go with a Bluestar, but not because of any difference in the BS and CC burners. I really like the curved SS front edge on the CC compared to the angular industrial look of the BS. However, I think the BS cast iron burner bowls readily beat the CC bowls with exposed stainless steel that you have to clean more often and with more difficulty than the BS cast iron. I also like the fact you can rotate the BS grates to raise the pots above the burner, and you cannot do this with the CC. The ability to turn the BS grate is a functional consideration (but I wonder how often BS owners do this?) The BS cast iron burner bowls is both a functional and aesthetic consideration.

One things is for certain -- you will be much better off and get far better service by ordering your appliances from Trevor. I'm not aware of anyone in the country who will give you better service than Trevor -- and this includes the Capital factory that I visited in person -- and this is important because your satisfaction with your purchase may hinge on the quality and responsiveness of the service you receive for your appliance. The reason I know this is I purchased my appliances locally but nevertheless Trevor reached out and helped me when I had problems, and he accomplished things that several different technicians could not do, even though they had telephone and printed guidance directly from the CC factory.

Good luck and enjoy your purchase!

Billy


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Great posts DCKelly and Billy. Thank you.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I have a new culinarian that I think has too hot a simmer. From what I read above, the temp should be at 140 at the simmer setting, if it is installed/adjusted correctly. How do you get this temp reading? I have a ThermaPen that I suppose would be good to use, but where do you measure the temp?


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

The 140 degrees is a measurement of water after simmering for 5 hours


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Thanks. But wouldn't it matter how much water? Obviously, a small amount of water would be hotter after heating for 5 hours than many gallons. In any case, I tried putting a medium saucepan with maybe a quart of water on low simmer on my culinarian, and it was at 190 degrees after about 15 minutes. So it sounds like I need to have it adjusted.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

MrDaveT--you are right, of course it matters how much water and, also, the size of the vessel.

Classic @trevorlawson misdirection.

Let common sense dictate.

Do you want to make a handsome spaghetti sauce? Well, can you take two quarts of whole canned tomatoes (w/spices and a lot of garlic of course) and simmer it for hours without the bottom burning?

Can you reheat a gorgeous Italian wedding soup without a furious boil rendering it hopeless?

What do you do, man?


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

MrDaveT, Burners are rated in BTUs. Most manufactures will give the high and low end. Capital likes to give the high end, which they feel is their strength, in BTUs but uses temperature for the low end which may be their weakness. No way to compare that way. The temp will vary tremendously depending on the size, heat conductivity and shape of the cooking vessel as well as what is cooking and its volume. Most owners do report they are happy with their adjustments though but as above, some have modified the burner. They are coming out with a smaller burner. If you need it to be lower than what they can get it, check out a simmer mat, which has little bumps to put some air between the pot and heat or solid copper simmer plate.

Here is a link that might be useful: simmer mat


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

The simmer matt doesn't work on these burners. We've tried this version and a couple of others. Heat (or I should say hot air) rises no matter what you put between the burners and the pan, and because these burners heat so evenly (including the center of the pan) the heat is transferred to the pan. They do work on sealed burners by directing more heat outward around the sides of the pot.

Get the adjustments made correctly and/or get a simmer burner if you want to simmer really really low.

Billy


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

QUESTIONS.......... How do you get this temp reading?

ALL manufacturers use the same test. A pan provided and approved by UL laboratories, 1 gallon of water, boiled then allowed to simmer for 5 hours.

I did not design the test nor did i supply the pan, simply answering the question put forward by Mr Dave


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I live in Vancouver, Canada. I have a new 36" CC rangetop. I also would like to get my simmer adjusted. I feel it's too hot. Also, one of my igniters stopped working after a week. It's been two weeks and I'm still waiting for a service technician to come. My local dealer said he called the office in California three times already buy I haven't heard from them yet. When they do come, is it possible to have the small pot burner retrofitted on one of my burners. That certainly would come in handy for some of my smaller pans. Should I be calling Capital directly in California?


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Call them directly..


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Thanks Trevor....wish Canadian customers had access to your service.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

They adjusted my burners, but they still won't go low enough to be a true simmer. If they try to lower them too much, they just make a horrendous clicking sound.
There was supposed to be a fix last October and I haven't heard from anyone about the retrofit.
There's now way with an inner and outer burner that you could get a true simmer.
Other than that, I am very happy with the burners. They're very well built and very powerful. The range top Is beautifully made - much better quality burners and parts, than my old Wolf range. My contractor said it was the best looking of any of these range tops he's seen.
Another problem I'm having with mine is that the griddle is unbelievable uneven. If I cook pancakes, the parts near the middle of the griddle are cooked, while the part of the pancakes near the outer edge of the griddle are uncooked. I'd like to know if they can fix this. The Wolf griddle worked better. If they could fix these problems, it would be the best range top on the market.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

"You can do that??? I simmer my stocks on any burner on my DCS. If I put the pot anywhere near my lab, she'd eat it long before it was reduced."

To say nothing of straining out the lab hair.

Had a lab that ate a whole pound of butter that was softening on the counter (all 4 sticks).

A lot of bathroom trips followed.

With a normal body temp of 101.3F if you are reducing anything you have a VERY sick dog.

This post was edited by brickeyee on Wed, Mar 13, 13 at 11:12


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I ordered a CC from Trevor in summer 2010. The original specs were 4 23k burners and 2 9k burners. When production specs were finalized, it was all 23k burners.

After 2 and a 1/2 years, it's a nice range. It's not a 30-35 k btu restaurant stove (we opted to not install a restaurant-grade fire-suppression surround, so we went with the highest-heat residential-fire-code stove).

The CC does not heat water nearly as fast as an induction system, not even close.

But overall, the CC is really fun to cook on. Not my dream stove, but I didn't focus hard enough on what I wanted.

Our CC is a 48-incher, 6 burners plus grill.

For stir-fry, we go go to our 30k btu Camp Chef hunting-party stove. I can see where a 100k btu jet would be fabulous, but 30k is good enough. It turns the bottom of the 16-in wok glowing red.

We ordered the CC with big (convection/self-clean) and small ovens. We have Wolf L 30-inch double ovens, too. We mostly use the Wolfs. For broiling fritattas, the CC is superior, because you can leave the door open, with the plastic skillet handle hanging out, Wolf requires the oven door to be shut for the broiler to work.

Using oven thermometers, both the CC main oven and Wolf provide accurate temps.

I tried to do dry-airflow vacuum-packed sous vide chuck steak in the Wolf, under the "Convection" ("drying") mode for 24 hours. It was fine at the low-end, per a thermometer, but it could not do 125-138, even with "digital-exactiude temperature" management.

The steak turned out tender, but a little over-cooked for what I wanted. Drat! I have to buy an expensive water sous-vide warmer to tenderize a chuck steak and have it medium rare at 130 degrees.

I also have a Wolf warming drawer. It's good for temps 100-130. But still, when I want to make sourdough bread, I go to the incadescent-bulb heat-lamp in the basement to do 85 degrees to make the culture produce "San Francisco sourdough" bread.

For fine-heat adjustments on the CC, you can try a heat diffuser--a copper plate is good--you can double-stack grates, or use a combo. Use a ThermoPen to see if you have the temp you want. If it doesn't work, try a Bain-Marie. Try a copper plate, a screen on top, and a copper plate on top of it. Use a pot with water, a ThermoPen, and test range settings. I think you can get whatever temp you want. It's a bit cumberson, but your recipes are cumberson. Figuring out your heat stacks is part of solving the problem.

My personal preference is to condense flavors using a room-temp vacuum pump and bell jar. Remove the water, concentrate the flavor.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Wow, you're clearly a more experienced chef than me.

I also have a six burner CC stove with grill, and a CC double oven from Trevor.

Can you answer some questions?

Why do you want a wok any hotter than the CC can get it? I have a nice carbon steel wok and the wok grate for my cc, and I find the cc gets the wok crazy hot. I'm not all that experienced doing stir fry on the cc, but I can't imagine what I would want with more heat. As it is, I sometime havea hard time avoiding burning things.

Do you have the Rotisserie for your cc? I live it! Just made rotisserie chicken last night. Te only issue is that the screws keep loosening and the chickens can flop on the spit.

What do you like better about the wolf ovens? I find the cc to be great, although the "user interface" on the cc oven is very awkward.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

I'm very disappointed with my CC.
First 4 of the 6 burners were clicking with the simmer.
The technician came out to fix that... but now, when I'm simmering my stock - it's a super rolling boil!
My rice regularly boils over at a simmer, and even the so called simmer burner does that. (It used to boil over even with the clicking). I guess I have to call the technician again... this time to lower the simmer... and hopefully i won't be dealing with the clicking again. No... I don't imagine he's going to have 5 hours to boil water to get it fixed accurately. ugh.
what are the "simmer plates" people are talking about? maybe i'll try that.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Yup... Even on the newly installed "simmer burner" - my bone broth is still at a rolling boil at the lowest setting.
I'm at my wit's end with this stove. I cannot simmer anything. Hopefully the technician will fix the problem, but I'm not too optimistic that it is fixable... I'll just get the clicking back. I put the thermometer into my soup... it's reading at 200 deg... (and it's been "simmering" for over 6 hours).
My husband thinks they fixed the simmer clicking problem by just raising the simmer point of all the burners.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

For what it's worth, I can get a decent simmer after my stove was adjusted. I don't have the simmer burners yet either. (When did they come out?). My stove probably still doesn't get as low as you'd want it for some things, but I can do things like melt butter without burning it, simmer tomato sauce for hours, etc...


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

my fingers crossed! calling technician today. will keep you posted
You should be able to call them to retrofit the simmer burner btw. just came out recently. it is the same as others, with one ring of holes instead of three.. just the inner ring. but flame on that ring comes out at same strength.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Just installed ours with the small pot burner and so far very pleased.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

In our case the new technician fixed the clicking problem, but was unable to properly adjust the small pot simmer burner with two visits. He's contacting the company and is going to come back.

The rotisserie broiler gets too hot (bird gets burnt), and he's going to look into adjusting that too.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Shabmerch ...... What are you doing with the bird to burn it prior to cooking ?


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

My husband did it, and I believe he tried the recipe off the capital culinarian website:
http://capital-culinarian.com/Eurostoves_Capital_Culinarian/Chicken.html
Maybe a recipe with no cider vinegar or no type of sweet marinade would work better. Going to try that next time. But it would be nice to be able to adjust the heat and work with some sweet marinades. Want to try the duck recipe on their website, but am a bit wary...


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Birds that have been marinated or had oil applied to the skin do have a darker / burnt finish, they sugar and oil tend to burn the skin somewhat. Normally we only put salt and pepper on the skin and it comes out perfectly golden brown with a little crispy finis.

The duck wasn't marinated so you wont have a burning problem.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Will try that then!


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Our Culinarian now in use for over 3 years here in Northwestern Connecticut. Purchased from Trevor. When new, the igniters did a lot of clicking when at the simmer setting. The service tech came out and fixed that. The problem was that the igniters were not properly aligned with the gas jet behind the igniter. I asked him to lower the simmer as far as possible.

I knew about the simmer complaints before purchasing, I decided the large burners were more important to me than simmer. I decided to deal with that issues by purchasing a simmer plate. So far, I've never had to use it so I guess the service tech did a good job with the adjustment.


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RE: Capital Culinarian - Won't Simmer?!? Don't buy?

Mine is freaking awsum. I use another grate on top to bring heat away from pot SImmers well in that configuration. My impression is that high heat trumps simmer when u bring pot away from heat. Very ez


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