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carolml_gw

appliance prices in Canada - does anyone purchase in US?

carolml
13 years ago

Although I've only just begun to shop for appliances, it seems that the prices here in Canada are way higher than in the US. Have any other Canucks purchased appliances in the US? Is there a problem with CSA standards? duty? Obviously, I am thinking of smaller items (microwaves, speed ovens, induction cook tops) that we can transport ourselves.

Thanks!

Comments (21)

  • research_queen
    13 years ago

    I never considered it. I imagine you will have to pay a tremendous amount of duty and taxes. Also, there are enormous price differences between small appliances like microwaves and major appliances, such as cooktops. The more expensive the products, the more duty and taxes you will have to pay.

  • tyguy
    13 years ago

    I buy TONS and TONS of stuff from the US. However the only MAJOR appliance I bought was a dishwasher. Paid GST and PST (or HST now in Ontario), that was it. I have bought literally thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of stuff, and have only ever been charged GST and PST. It takes a matter of minutes to get it over the border.

  • research_queen
    13 years ago

    Duty is dependant on where the item is made.

    You might also want to consider possible complications with the warranty. I once purchased a stroller in the US and the manufacturer would not ship replacement parts to an address in Canada. You may want to contact the manufacturer of the appliances you are considering to find out if this would be an issue.

    You should also contact Canada Border Services Agency to see if there would be any additional issues.

  • llaatt22
    13 years ago

    There are numerous complications in answering this question. You can do a search using "Canada" as the keyword in the box at the bottom of an Appliance thread list page for previous discussions.

    There is HST charged on American appliances entering Canada. There is the possibility that a particular appliance model made and sold in the USA is neither sold or serviced in Canada. Some GE brand appliances in Canada for example are made here or imported here by MABE a Mexican company.

    The only real statement anyone has ever got was some time ago and it suggested that if someone bought a Miele appliance common to both countries while a resident of the USA and moved to Canada within the warranty period, the warranty would be honoured here. Normal repair service would also be provided after the end of warranty.

    Everything else is sort of wishy-washy "maybe yes, maybe no" by all concerned. About the only way it could work is if someone in the states could front the purchase and address for you with warranty and repairs.

  • tyguy
    13 years ago

    Technically research queen is right about duty being applied depending on where the product is made. However, as I said, I have brought literally thousands upon thousands of dollars of items across the border, and they don't even inquire where the product is made. They usually don't even look at the product. I simply pull up to the gate, they ask me how much I spent, I tell them and they send me over to pay tax's. They simply tack GST/PST (HST now in Ontario) onto the TOTAL price you paid (including sales tax's paid in the US) and converted to CDN dollars. I have inquired about this, and was told that for "personal use" meaning you are not importing container loads of product they usually just add the tax and no duties. And I am not saying this as a guess, I have done this probably 100 times or more with load values between a few hundred dollars to about $4000. I have used the borders in Niagara Falls, Fort Erie, and Detroit/Windsor.

    I do believe that the "official policy" is to charge duty, which I believe is only 7% for personal use regardless of where it is made, but in my experience, as long as they do not think you are trying to pull the wool over their eyes they are pretty good.

    Again as research queen mentioned, the warranties are something to consider. I would either check into what the deal is with that, or decide if you can live with the risk. This is one reason I have only bought one MAJOR appliance across the border. Most things I buy are not likely to need warranty work.

    The savings can be huge on many things. I bought a Pella exterior door that after tax, exchange, absolutely everything(except my gas to get there) cost me a shade over $3200, and in Canada cost over $7000.00

    I fully support cross border shopping! :)

  • carolml
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks for the encouragement tyguy. I checked into Canada Border services as suggested by research queen. If the items are made in US or Mexico, there is no duty. The warranty issue is another problem. I know that with cars, some companies honour warranties. BMW will honour warranties but will not honour service agreements. I think every company makes their own decisions here. I'll let you know if I find out more.
    Thanks all.
    Carol

  • tyguy
    13 years ago

    Hi carolml....You are welcome. I understand a bit of a price difference between products sold in the US vs Canada, but there are some cases where it is just crazy, and I don't think we should reward those companies with our business until they get their prices in-line.

    The real issue I would think is the warranties. As for duty, like I said "official policy" is to charge duty (7% for non north American made stuff bought for "personal use"), but in my experience they don't even ask or look at the product. Just charge gst and pst, and this is after at least 100 trips across. It is the same thing if you called and asked Canada Border Services how much you are exempt from bringing over they will quote the standard 24, 48, and 7 day exemptions, but there have been many many times I have gone over for just the day (ie...less than 24 hours) and if you say you are bringing across $100 or $150 they just let you go, even tho "officially" it should be $0 allowed, and therefore tax's and duty should be charged.

    I have yet to run into a complete a-hole at the border, as long as you are not trying to pull one over on them they are very cool. It is much easier for them to not investigate the country of origin, so unless they don't like you, they probably are not going to bother. And again remember this is said with a lot of experience. I would bet that I have crossed the border over 100 times in the past few years with load values from a few hundred to several thousand, and I probably have crossed the border close to 200 times in the past 10 years, and of those times, I don't think I came back across empty handed even 3 times. Worst case scenario, you can add in 7% to your calculations to see if it makes economic sense to buy across the border.

    What brands of appliances are you looking at? I am sure there are many people on here that would love to find out what brands honour cross border warranties.

  • cessnabmw
    13 years ago

    If you are looking to buy a car in the US, check out this thread :)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Buying Cars in the US

  • carolml
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    tyguy, I haven't even compared the same models for price, it has just been a general impression that things are cheaper down south. My research is just beginning and I will post anything that I find interesting. As I can't imagine carting major large appliances across the border, I am thinking of smaller things - sinks, faucets, maybe a microwave or small oven. We'll see.

    Cessnabmw, regarding buying cars in the US, we bought a BMW a two years ago when the dollar was up. BMW is one of the companies that will repair warranty problems here in Canada but will not service the car for the usual free service visits - for that we have to drive to Seattle. There is an excellent web site that walks you through the entire car import event - everything you need to know for a $20. fee. We were very impressed with the detail. Check out: ucanimport.com

  • tyguy
    13 years ago

    carolml,

    If you are only bringing over things like you mentioned, I would sooooooooo not worry about duties and such. If your BC border guards are anything like the ones in Ontario, I can promise you the only thing they will charge on those items is GST and PST (are you guys in BC still fighting the HST?).

    Anyway, do your research as not everything is a bargain but many of those type of items you mentioned are. One example (of MANY) that I can think of is the Kohler Kelston toilet. $399 at Lowes in Canada (and a LOT more than that at many boutique stores), at Lowes in the US (Buffalo NY area) I paid $219(it has gone up a bit since then) plus 8.75% NY sales tax (238.16) then that was converted to CDN which was about 2% at the time so $242.92 then GST and PST added on so it was $274.50 TOTAL. In Canada it would have been $399x13%=$450.87, for a savings of $176.37 for ONE toilet. If you are not sure about the entire process, why not take a trip down one day and do a little test run with a load value that isn't too great, and see what happens. Assuming of course the border isn't too far away form you.

  • carolml
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks tyguy, we'll be heading south in the next week or two to exchange an expensive tool that my husband ordered from the US. After paying ridiculous brokerage fees with UPS, it turns out to be a lemon. The company will send a replacement to Bellingham to avoid the UPS fees and we get to pick it up there. The fact that we live on the Island and have to take a ferry makes it even more expensive and complicated. Oh well, a chance to look at some of these other items and maybe test your idea.
    Carol

  • tyguy
    13 years ago

    omg....don't even get me started on UPS. Their fee's are absolutely insane. If I ever order anything that will cross the border I try not to have them ship UPS. Canada Post/USPS as well as Fedex do not charge these ridiculous fees. I really wish there was a way to get the word out about UPS. If I had more time I think I would start to website facebook page about how much they suck.

    Ya, sounds like your trip south of the border would not be as easy as mine. I am a close drive. However, I will trade you places to live!! :) BC is one of the most gorgeous places on earth. Isn't your slogan now "The best place on earth"? lol

  • llaatt22
    13 years ago

    For those Canadians who reside near both their courier service distribution centre and a customs facility, you can do your own brokerage by taking the invoice from the d.c. to the customs office, paying the duty and taxes, then returning to the d.c. with the completed paperwork to get your item. It would be wise to check into this at both places well before you order anything to be up to date and on top of any changes that could derail your diy effort.

  • davidro1
    13 years ago

    I have several sisters who have lived in Canada for 5 or 10 years a time. They won't order packages by courrier. Only by USPS (Post Office). They tell me that UPS + Fedex are now taking serious advantage of their near-monopoly status. One way UPS + Fedex do this is by charging surprise fees that they demand from the receiving party in a letter sent about a month after the delivery. Calling customer service leads nowhere, and a threatening tone makes it clear that you might not receive any other deliveries if they are not satisfied with your payment history. I think they treat you as a business so you have less right to claim "human" service, and as a business you are "in arrears". I think in Canada people in general are more docile and there is no tradition of people rebelling against abuse.

    Apparently the postal service doesn't abuse its position.

    I find another abuse is when UPS and Fedex allow someone in China to send you something At Your Expense, without telling the Chinese party how much it will cost. They tell the person in China they will double their rates, and this leads him to believe it will cost double the rate displayed in his local currency. But this hides the fact that they will double the rate they would charge in dollars if someone tried to pay in advance (in dollars) to have something shipped prepaid from China -- and this information was not available beforehand -- and it turns out that the rate for an individual to prepay a shipment from China is about $100 for a package weighing a number of ounces. Double that to $200 and you get the picture.

    On top of all this is that somehow the courrier services seem to team up against you by sharing offices, drop-off services, and whatever, and claiming that the population density is not high enough for them to be competing against each other. Or something like that. But Canadian cities are just as densely populated as American cities, and Canadians actually mostly live in their big cities. This should be brought to the attention of the authorities. Anti-Trust, pre-Competition bureau, or whatever it's called.

    All of this tells me that UPS and Fedex stock price will fall once their squeezing is brought to a stop, worldwide. In the meantime, I am astounded how much money they make. It seems they also lose a lot of packages. I think the Post Office doesn't do this.

    The moral of the story is this:
    Whatever the postal service says they will charge, is all they will charge. The deliver what you give them to deliver.

    hth.

  • tyguy
    13 years ago

    davidro1....is Fedex now pulling the same crap? It used to be only UPS that charged these crazy fees, Fedex did not. They charged a small fee, but it wasn't anything at all exorbitant. However, I have not had something shipped from the US via Fedex in many years, so it is quite possible they joined the ranks of UPS. I did have something shipped USPS/Canada Post less than a year ago, and their rate I believe was still just a flat five bucks(very reasonable).

  • carolml
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    We usually remember to try and request shipping other than UPS, but often this is the only service that suppliers use. No one ever seems willing to take a shipment to the post office! When UPS arrives at the door with your pre-paid parcel and then ask for $100..it's kind of hard to swallow. Good advise though about brokering your own shipments. I'll look into it.
    Carol

  • cooksnsews
    13 years ago

    I refuse all international deliveries by UPS. I have had items returned to sender to re-ship via the shipper (usually the PO) that I originally requested. If a USA merchant only uses UPS, I'll buy from someone else.

    davidro, in Canada, the item will not be delivered unless the recipient coughs up the cash. I have heard that for deliveries going in the opposite direction (i.e. Canada to USA) the item will be delivered, but an invoice letter will be sent later.

    I don't think Canadians are particularly docile, I just don't think the big corporations care about us one way or the other....

  • dyno
    13 years ago

    I've imported many thousands of dollars worth of goods as well. My Bertazzoni cook top was a lucky find at $600 but most other appliances (other than microwave) were purchased in Canada due to warranty concerns.

    If you do have to ship via courier, get the cheapest service outside of ground and you won't pay brokerage. It's still a premium but you haven't lived until you've received a $1000 shipment shipped ground by accident and paid $400 worth of brokerage and doc fees. lol

  • mbw1
    13 years ago

    We have been on-line shoppers for many years, literally saving thousands of $$ by shopping on-line in the US. We have our items shipped to a local depot and pay $3 each for a pick-up fee. Most companies offer free shipping with the US for orders over $100 and sometimes with no minimum.

    We would love to support our local retailers but when you are talking hundreds at a time it's hard to justify.

    We bought our vehicle 3 years ago in Maine and saved $6,000. I used to work in the provincial revenue office so I know all the rules regarding tax and importing.

    We live within one hour of the US border. Last weekend we picked up our new faucet and sink for our kitchen remodel.
    At home depot in Canada they would have cost us about $750,,,US price through an on-line retailer total was $400, no state tax, no duty, pay 13% at border, just as we would if shopping in our province, free shipping, fill up on gas and it's a no brainer.

    Next week we are driving 3 hours to pick up our new LG French Door, two drawer botton freezer fridge,,,retail here is $2,890. We are paying $1,260 with state tax and exchange included. I checked with my local border agency last weekend when we came through, no duty on this item, just the 13% I would have paid here anyway.....

    We are talking a saving of over $1,500...I am willing to take my chances on the warranty for that kind of savings. Most manu. warranties are only a year anyway.

    I am also saving over $400 on my light fixtures and door hardware by shopping this way.

    So my already saved $$$ for this remodel is now around $2,300 and we aren't done shopping yet. Hard to argue with those number.

  • carolml
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Hi crafterbeth,
    This is exactly the info I was looking for. Thank you so much. Just to clarify, you have the US online shipper send the item to a depot in the closest US town then you cross over, pick it up and do the paper work yourself at the border. So if UPS is the shipper, they would ship it to their own office in (for me) Bellingham?
    Carol

  • mbw1
    13 years ago

    I Carol, I'm on the other coast and crossing over in Maine. We live close to a border town and this is a big business here. There are several business owners across the border than allow packages to be shipped to you c/o of them....we simply use their address and go pick up parcels for a fee....and pay the HST when we cross back,,,,same tax we would have paid at home anyway

    I'm not sure if UPS would do that but I cant see why not.....I always check with the local border crossing for particulars if I am bringing across something I have never imported before (ie duty, regulations)...

    You must have your receipt with you, a lot of companies don't put the actual copy in the parcel, as well the parcel must be opened before you bring it across otherwise you cannot say for sure what is in the box and they dont like that!LOL

    Good luck!