My take again..Since the CC is approved for being set flush against the wall w/o anything being said about 'if the wall is made fireproof' the back of the range doesn't get that hot.

So if in doubt check code for your area and go from there.

One of the inspectors for my county is a good friend of mine so checked with her and we have no such requirement. Besides plaster and brick aren't real flammable anyway:-) BUT if she would have said yea we want that it would have been done.

For a rangetop installation would the back wall below the bottom of the counter top not be plywood or whatever the base cabinet box material is comprised of?

One would assume the cab has a ply or particle board back, one would also assume that the actual wall the cab is attached to is drywall.

But as Trevor said a range top should only put heat out the top or they wouldn't be able to be used on a wood cab base. never had a range top so just guessing:-)

I would also assume that the install instructions for the top would give all clearance recommendations.

Sorry I haven't posted in a while but it has been a mess of activity wrapping up my build. Dealing with city inspectors is probably more painful than the whole renovation.

Well, it appears my range is being sold by several retailers on eBay. Trevor pointed out another ebay post that used the same picture. It's probably the worst picture of anything I've ever taken so I'm a little embarrassed that it's out there. BTW, I have contacted eBay about my picture being used by others without my permission but so far nothing has been done about it.

In any case, I did get burners and grates about two weeks ago but part of the reason I didn't post right away is that there were a few issues and wanted to get them sorted out so I can give a full report. So here's the whole story...

It appears that I missed out on the first shipment of "good" burners that they got which meant I was possibly going to have to cancel my Thanksgiving plans. I started calling Trevor and Capital directly to see what could be done. After a couple of "yes we have some" and then "no we don't" incidents, I finally got the news that they were sending them and sent me the tracking number. I spoke with the woman that Trevor works with on orders and she was very helpful and I honestly think she was trying her hardest to get everything back on track.

I'm in Northern CA so it only took 2 days for it to arrive which I was glad for. When I got them the grates looked fine but I could tell the burners were just not 100%. The shutter adjustment was easy but there were some problems with the ignitor positioning and such that I had to work around. I finally got all the burners lighting dependably but I still wasn't happy with what I had to do to get them there.

I emailed Trevor the next day and told him that it looked like they sent some less than perfect burners and asked him to look into it. To make a long story short, he said they sent what they could to get me something to cook on and promised that they'd send out a complete set of new burners once the initial shortage of burners is resolved. For the sake of full disclosure I did beg and plead to have something sent that would get me through Thanksgiving and they did what they could. I've worked on commercial ranges of similar design so it wasn't hard to get things working but I'm glad they are going to make it right by sending new production quality parts when they become available.

Now to the good stuff...

{{gwi:1472880}}

Baking:
Even before we got the burners, we did a bit of baking. My wife whipped up a batch of cookies and they came out great. No over crisp edges or bottoms and they stayed moist for several days afterward. In our old oven, they'd be rock hard after a couple of hours. I think temperature fluctuations with our old oven was to blame. The oven door was only slightly warm except at the very top edge where it got warm but not burning hot. Rolling racks are nice and we had to get use to pulling them out rather than just reaching in like we did before. Just a couple of nights ago we backed some corn bread and brownies in the small oven while we made a roast in the main oven. Everything came out great. The best thing I can say about the ovens is that it was effortless. The oven temp nob is off by about 25deg but it's rock steady once that's accounted for. We always use an oven thermometer (actually two) so not a big deal.

I've used the broiler twice now and the first time, with some beef strips, was not the best success. Second time with a baked pasta was much better. I realized that I probably didn't preheat the broiler long enough the first time. I've only used infrared broilers in a salamander so it's hard to compare but the cheese melted and browned quite quickly and evenly so no complaints there.

Burners:
All I have to say is wow! I've worked in restaurant kitchens where typical burners are between 30-35k BTU and honest, these burners put out about as much heat. OK, I know I'll get some "yeah right" responses here but I learned a while back that the BTU rating is based on measurement of gas volume input (i.e. consumed) and not by actual heat produced. That means given the same input BTU, there can be more heat output if combustion is more complete and efficient. The 23k BTU burner cooks close to 30k BTU burners I've used in the past. I do wish the heat was even more concentrated in the center for wok cooking but it's a good trade off between even heating for larger pans and heat concentration. Flames lick around the edges of my 12" skillet and provides very even heat across the bottom.

I have not gotten a wok grate yet so I had to cook on top of the standard grates. Trevor says that in his tests, he got about 20% better performance in his boil-off test with the dedicated wok grate. My results with the wok on top of the standard grates were very good. Very quick preheat and very good recovery time. I've made about 8 meals with the wok so far and am very happy with the performance. I can't wait until I get the wok grate.

Grill:
Unfortunately, I did not get grill grates yet either so I will have to report
back once I get those.

Now the part that some are waiting for and others will roll their eyes at. Bluestar vs. Capital Culinarian. I owned a Bluestar cooktop for two years before moving and getting the Culinarian so I can only comment on the burners and not about the oven. I think both the BS and CC burners provide good even heat which is great for all sorts of cooking. The CC burners seem to produce higher max heat which seems to exceed the 1k BTU difference.

For wok cooking, lifting off the grate and dropping the wok in does have a nice convenience factor I will admit. I do however feel the CC does provide more heat to the bottom of the wok which is worth the tiny bit of effort to move a grate in place. Trevor mentions that the handles stay cooler which is a nice safety feature but that's not so much an issue for me. More important to me is the fact that if the handle (i.e. sides) of the wok are not getting overly hot, then the bottom of the wok is getting more heat. This could account for the 20% boost in the test data.

I have had a problem with the CC burners clicking on simmer but I have not gone through a full simmer adjustment due to the fact I'm expecting to get replacement burners. I had to adjust the ignitor height on several of the burners in order to get them to light so it is my expectation that production burners will have more finely positioned ignitors to dependably ignite and not click during simmer. I could probably spend more time and fix these problems but with Thanksgiving around the corner, I decided to just live with what I've got for now.

So in conclusion...
Did I make the right choice between CC and BS? I think so.. at least for me. I needed the piece of mind of knowing I won't have any problems with the oven door being too hot or getting stuck. The burner performance is definitely on par and, IMHO, better with the CC than BS. I do like the cast iron top of the BS due to it's utility but the CC is very pretty. CC and BS are the top two cooking ranges out there today. It really is a personal choice of fit, function, potential issues, colors, etc. I'm sure I would have been happy with a BS but my prior experience with BS even on very simple issues and their lack of explanation or response to the oven door problems weighed heavily in my decision.

Oh, almost forgot the mention. Some people have question the height of the island trim. So far, I have not run into problems with that. My 12" cast iron skillet fits comfortably on the rear burner without impeding on the front burner. My wok sitting on top of the standard grate avoids the island trim all together due to the curve. Overall, it's been such a non-issue that I almost forgot to mention it.

Hey was starting to get a bit worried about you amcook!

Your kitchen, what can be seen in the photo, looks SUPER FINE! Just wonderful.

Thanks for your review, will be looking forward to an update when you get the proper burners.

I bet they try and swipe this image as well, slap a copyright logo in the corner gives 'standing'.

Great looking kitchen, amcook!

That's exactly the model Culinarian I have on order, except it'll be in black. I'm a little farther down in the queue (gotta speak in British terms for Trevor, LOL) and expect mine in mid December.

Just as an aside--I wonder if anyone would have the web skills to set up a website concerning rotisserie cooking on the Culinarian. Most rotisserie recipes are either for outdoor barbecues or for countertop units like the Popeil item. I know the first several birds and beasts I put on the rotisserie are gonna be poked with a Thermapen every fifteen minutes or so. It would be nice if there was a spot where people could share their experiences--e.g., "for a 6 pound roasting chicken, rotisserize for 50 minutes and bake for 15" or whatever the numbers might be.

I wholly agree with Amcook's assessment of the apparent power of the burners. They really bang out a LOT of heat, more than you would think from the nominal rating. Whole different ball game than the 15K I had before. At least by impression more than 50% more.

I also agree that even more concentration in the center would be ideal for wok cooking (which I do a lot). You just can't have too much in the center for a wok, but it would have to be a wholly dedicated burner type to be as such. Either way, it is dramatically better than the single ring type burner I had on a Viking, which puts the heat way too far out to the side to wok cook properly. No disappointments here.

amcooks... I am sure you will find the wok grate (which is leaving the factory today) is a vast improvement even over the excellent burners for this style of cooking. When using the wok grate the base of the wok sits a little higher in relation to the flame which concentrates even more flame to the center of the wok. Also because of the blocked of front and back the heat seems to stay under the wok longer thereby giving improved heat with exceptional even heat, the longer you can hold the heat under the wok the hotter it gets .

Happy to hear the ovens worked fine, as for the broiler I find leaving the door ajar gives better results, all broilers cycle on and off so it depends when you turn the broiler on and what part of the cycle the broiler is at when you put the food in as to how hot it will actually be.

I agree that the burners are outstanding in my tests and from feed back form customers.

Arly, how do you know where you are in the queue? Did you call Capital to find out? I ordered my 36" self-clean (w/grill) in the first week of August from Euro-Stoves, but I have heard nothing about the estimated delivery date (except for when Trevor called to tell me production was delayed until October). Has anyone else ordered/recieved the same configuration as mine? Anyone in Washington state got one yet?

ecranny

I ordered mine end of June and it will be here on Friday.

I think the roll out had some fits and starts because of the burners and grates. I don't think mine has grates. Anyway it seems that issue has been taken care of so hopefully things will move right along now.

Got mine in on Saturday and installed last night. After the installers left, I realized the oven didn't work. Trevor was great and got the head engineer to send me instructions on how to check the relay wiring behind the front panel and it fixed in a jiffy.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

To help others figure out where they may be in the queue, I just received a phone call from Trevor letting me know my range has shipped from the factory. I ordered a 30'', self-cleaning range on Sept 4th. (Thanks Trevor, I really appreciate your follow through.)

Jon

arley..........

That's a good idea, I would be happy to add a page to the Culinarian website for customer recipes and methods when using the Rotisserie or the ovens in general. I can also add pictures of finished results.

tdeech,

really good looking setting for a really good looking range!

Its begining to look alot like Christmas!

Got an email from Trevor yesterday saying my wok and grill grates were out for delivery. I didn't even know they were shipped out yet. Last I heard was that they'd just arrived at the factory the day before Thanksgiving. They must have turned them around the same day. When I got home, I was disappointed to find that nothing had been delivered. Well, at around 10pm, there was a knock on our door which scared the @#$! out of my wife. I go to the door and see two boxes at the door and the UPS truck pulling away.

So, I now have all the grates and will try them out tonight. I'm already very happy with the wok performance even without the special wok grate so I don't expect anything earth shattering. Still, I'm looking forward to trying it out and using the grill finally.

Thanksgiving was a success. We deep fry our turkeys so didn't use the oven or rotisserie but I'm planning to do a couple of chickens next week. Even so, the range got some good use with the pies, bread, stuffing, gravy, etc. Even used the wok for a batch of stir fried green beans. Then afterwards, I made my traditional turkey gumbo with the bones and other bits of scraps. Overall, the Culinarian performed like a champ. The best thing I can say is that I didn't feel confined or hampered in any way. The performance was as much or, in some cases, more than we needed. At one point in the middle of cooking, I realized that I already felt comfortable with it and how much I missed cooking on a commercial range after living with a cooktop for the last 10 years.

Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving.

I just got the okay for venting to the outside and called trevor to place an order for a 36" self-cleaning with grill and a eurostoves 42" modernaire hood (which apparently hasn't been tested yet!).

I'm in the cue!

Happy Hanukkah!

Yahoo Sadieb! Exciting stuff

I am so happy for you amcook. I know you can't wait to have it all put together.

Congrats sadiebrooklyn. That is great news.

Waahh, I wanna be in the cue!

Any one else order a color besides the one black one? I am still thinking RAL 3000.

Sorry. I guess we should have said queue and not cue.

odiegirl13 we should also be saying, "Capital" and not "Caplital"!!!!

Big congrats sadiebrooklyn. It's a big decision but I think you'll like it. If you don't mind my asking, what was the lead time for your range? Just curious how far out new orders are being quoted. My parents might be in the market for a new range soon so it would be good to know.

Thanks odiegirl13, it was good to get those in even though I wasn't exactly hurting for them. Just waiting for the new burners (which should be soon) and I'll be really complete.

Amcook....... The delivery time for new orders will be a standard 6 - 8 weeks

I think you will notice a difference tonight when you use the wok grate, give me a call and let me know how it goes.

Sorry sadieb. I didn't mean to offend. I am genuinely happy about your purchase.

you know what's really funny about this.. It wasn't until just now that I realized that the title is misspelled... and I was the one that did it! :D

odiegirl13 I was absolutely NOT offended. clearly all of our misspellings are due to our extreme enthusiasm!!!!

I see trevor has already chimed in regarding your lead time question amcook.

Whew! Good sadieb. I have worked with computers for many, many years and I for one should know how to spell that darn word.

Keep us posted.

I am on a business trip, and DW says our CC will be delivered this afternoon. I won't see it until I pull into my garage late tonight and try not to hit it. Now if only my tile guy would finally finish his other jobs so he can install my backsplash! I think that makes my leadtime about 13 weeks from order to receipt which is pretty good considering the product was just launched.

Jon

I have a CC in South Carolina and the grates for it arrived in Houston, last night. Oh, well, at least it is a compact package that will be much easier to put into the car & take there than the dining room chandelier was.

Mine has been here since last Friday. Moved it into the kitchen yesterday, got the grates today.
WHAT A RANGE! The first thing I tested was my 1qt All-Clad pan that I use a lot, stable as a rock. Then I brought about 1-1/2 s water to a boil, turned just a bit past HI the flames were under the pan not running up the sides..Yes I have pictures. Came to a boil in short order'natch. So how about simmer on a 23K burner? Took that boiling water to simmer, couldn't be more perfect. So much for playing around real cooking shortly.

Anyway a couple pics, would have liked to have Range 2, didn't work.

http://www.thusie.com/photos/1112483039_CqqiJ-L.jpg

Here is a link that might be useful:

Hi Thusie -

I like the simplicity of your hood. What is it? Is that real storage above it, or decorative?

Dan,

Its a Kobe 122, I think, would have to look it up, 850CFM. I would have liked something with more capture area, available space limited choice, the real storage over the range:-) It does work quite well so far. We did a fairly indepth DIY face lift, not planned, and decide leaving the cabs on that end alone. Thanks

thusie - your kitchen looks great and the CC is perfect. Thanks for the pics and the cooking results. Keep 'em coming.

thusie, nice kitchen. Congrats.

I thought I'd report back about my wok cooking on my new wok grate. I've got three different woks ranging between 13-16" and they all fit very well. Very stable. I'd say more stable than the BS setup but that's just splitting hairs. I noticed immediately that the heat appeared to be more focused in the middle than with the wok on top of the standard grate. That's a very good thing for wok cooking and probably accounts for the 20% improvement with the wok grate Trevor observed in his test. Hot handles mean wasted heat.

With the wok grate, I'd say performance was definitely better than with the BS IMHO. The only thing I'd say that was even slightly negative is that the wok being elevated a couple of inches is slightly less comfortable to me than the BS. I'm 5'9" so someone who's 6' or taller would likely find the height perfect. Either way, that's just a slight personal preference that doesn't detract from the performance in any way. Overall, I'm a very happy camper.

Also, tried out the grill today. Steaks and asparagus. Came out perfect. The grill is more capable than I had hoped. My steak was perfect and I even had to turn it down a bit half way through. In fact, my wife was all over it since she considers the outdoor grill my domain, this allows her to grill things for dinner without dragging everything to the backyard. I like my steaks on the rare to medium rare side so high heat is required to get a good sear without over cooking. This grill will put nice black grill lines on the steak before the center is even past rare. I had to reduce the heat to achieve a medium-rare after the initial sear on both sides.

On a side note, the Prestige hood did a great job keeping up with the grill smoke. I was a bit worried that it wouldn't but it handled it without much trouble.

Thanks amcook, Odiegirl your moral support through the whole thing, greatly appreciated.

Adjusting the burners. While my CC burners would have probably been just fine, 100x's better than what I had, I decided to tweak. Trevor has a super video up on what the flame should look like and how to 'tweak'. I did mine yesterday and can say it is a very simple process and very much worth the time it took.

Did the oven burn off yesterday, no odor at all, exhaust fan on low. Oven held steady as a rock a 450.

What is gobsmacking impressive is on HI the flames stayed nicely tucked underneath the little one quart sauce pan! Granted turned down a couple clicks was better..Really who needs all of 23K hitting a pan like that.? Searing meat w/o it turning into a steaming mess will be a joy.

amcook, with your report I think I will get a 2 burner grill/griddle..Probably where the Kobe will get creamed, we shall see. Would be very nice not to be grilling outside here in winter:-)

Very impressed with your report on the grill, amcook. I like my steak on the rare side of medium rare. Or just rare. On the old bluestar IR grill demo video at Eurostoves, the steak looked medium at best. It might just have been the video camera / computer color, but it looked pretty pink all the way through. I've since become a fan of pan searing which provides a nice even crust and still lets me keep it as rare as I want. In fact when I ordered my 36" CC last month, I ended up just going with all burners. Still, I'm impressed with your CC experience (and the fact that the hood handled the smoke!). Thanks for sharing.

Trevor,

Had the opportunity to visit the Capital factory last week in L.A. and test the Culinarian. WOW! Those open burners are HOT HOT HOT. Like the new grill better than the infrared on the Precision - simpler and you don't have to worry about the ceramic jets getting clogged up. Those cast-iron grill grates are HEAVY! Love the wok grate too. Also chatted with Surjit Kalsi, the President. Very sharp fellow. Their factory is "bursting at the seams" and business is very good. Thanks again for all your good work!

Long, rambling and not high tech:-)

For the folks on the fence about the CC. Say the 30" manual clean is a stretch money wise, you only have room for the 30", you don't do Beef Wellington, souffles, wok cooking etc. on a regular basis if ever. You do like to cook, but it is for the most part normal everyday foods prepared well which to be honest is a good many of us. So what does the CC, which you just love, have for you? The burners are fantastic, its a beautiful range, but how do you justify the $$$$. I can relate to all the above even tho' I have made BW a few times:-)

While I love to cook and do get creative Don and I are pretty busy folks especially in summer so yea sometimes it is a Freshetta pizza thrown in the oven at 9pm, or fish and chips, it can get pretty down and dirty around here. Same can happen in winter if we start a new DIY project inside.

So last night I made beef stroganoff, with noodles and snap peas, simple and quick, heck I was thinking tonight might have soup and grilled cheese sammies.:-) Do I hear some OMG's out there? Hey why not, it is a range and while I do have some fancy stuff planned a range is to cook on, be used, and if it makes things more fun..cool beans.

So what was it like and what where the most noticeable differences between it and the Kenmore, besides the burners.

Realestate, there is a HUGE amount of room on the range top! I could get a 12 fry pan AND a 3qt saucier on that back burner, the Kenmore that back burner would be useless except for a 1qt pot. It was super nice to dump the browned meat into one of my SS prep bowls and chuck it to the back on the middle grate. The extra room on the range top made a big and rather shocking difference, I love that!

The grates, while the KM had heavy grates the CC are BIG and heavy, the stability of large pans was very noticeable.The KM grates are also porcelain coated which makes them more 'slippery', not a bad thing but I really enjoyed the more sticky quality of the cast iron yet it is quite easy to slide a pan from one burner to the other.

There is a wonderful flow, if that makes sense. Water for the noodles came to a boil quickly and after throwing the noods in, it stayed boiling, no waiting for the water to recover. My one fear was with all that burner power cooking would be fast and furious, it wasn't, it was quick and efficient, with amazingly precise burner control. Yes that has been talked about, but to experience it? Will lets just say it is very, very nice and very noticeable.

Mushrooms, I love mushrooms any and all mushrooms, I have an 8oz bag of dried morels on the counter..Oh yummy. Anyway last night it was the basic white jobs. All my prior, lets brown the mushrooms, has been throw in hot pan, they release lots of water, they get sautéed down to gray blobs before they brown. Ohoo not this time, they staid plump, turned a lovely golden brown and smelled wonderful..White store bought mushrooms! Who knew?

So when it was all over Don asked how did you like it? It was actually a hard question to answer, I was certainly not pushing the range testing all its capabilities. No it was a simple lesson in form and function, everything just worked. It was a real eye opener on how cooking on the KM and other ranges I've used can be rather a struggle, pans too close and various other things, moving from a high heat burner to a simmer burner, it is very nice to have all burners do all things. Cooking on the CC just felt good and something Don said that was interesting " Boy the food just looks so much better on that range" yea its a neat visual.

So was it worth the money, yes, very much so and that is saying a lot for me for a range, I sacrificed buying something very important to me in order to get it..No regrets.

thusie, just wanted to say thank you for your review of cooking on the Capital -- especially the description of the mushrooms!

Even though I ordered a Blue Star instead of a CC I am looking forward to having experiences like yours -- I can't wait to get it and your description made me even more excited. Good luck with your CC --many happy meals!

sayde,

Looking forward to your first impressions of the BS, both the CC and BS are super pieces of kit to have in your kitchen. AND that is how I finally explained it to Don. Its like a pro body DSLR won't make you a better photog, but it sure makes the day to day easier and more fun. You now have a tool that doesn't limit you or your creativity and your skill set will improve just because of that. Ergonomics and efficiency are very important to me, the CC fills both beyond what I ever imagined.
I'm sure you will be thrilled with your BS sayde, its a whole new world:-)

I have having to watch the oven, I have a temp gauge in the CC and it reads dead on. Have no real clue where the KM actually was temp wise and you just get real use to baking stuff for a certain amount of time. The brownies baked perfectly but took 5 min longer (the actual time they are suppose to bake). Granted 5 min isn't much, but I will have to watch that:-)

thusie - I am glad to hear that things are going so well and that you and Don are really happy with your CC. Thanks for all the details. I am having a hard time imagining my transition from the ''hot plate'' and ''Easy Bake Oven'' appliances I have now, to something as powerful as the CC. Best of luck and keep the cooking info coming.

thusie--How'd I miss those luscious cabinets? What color is that? I have a real thing for green cabinets. Do tell. Your installation looks wonderful!!!!! These ranges are looking great in place, all!

KD, thanks I quite love it:-) I had picked out a cab color in 2001 in 02 when Don said lets go buy the paint I changed my mind as we were going out the door. Glad I did I would have been sick to death with my orig choice. Valspar Hedgerow.

Odiegirl..If you have the basic concept of boiling water figured out (I'm sure you do) you won't have a minutes trouble adapting. That said the days of us putting pasta water on to boil and going out to water plants is probably over:-)

Thanks Thusie for the real-world details on the CC.

We won't break ground on our new house til spring, so I'm living vicariously.

I'll be learning (after 45 years of cooking) to use gas so I've been wondering if I was going to scorch every pan that I owned and you've given me hope!

Gbism,

Ohoo breaking ground on a new house, very exciting!

If you turned the CC on high and trundled off to do something it probably get a bit interesting:-)

I've found that for the day to day mundane stuff 4 clicks off HI works very, very well, put a nice even crust on some pork chops in short order. Incredibly easy range to use and get use to. Don't get me wrong, having HI will come in handy, but there are a lot of things to love about this range besides HI:-) Oh and keeping it shined up seems easy so far and I'm pretty sloppy, or can be.

nfrmerchant,
I also have been waiting for a 6 burner self cleaning range. I purchased in July also. Last I heard they were going to "try" to get my range out before winter break (whenever that is). We have been without a range since Sept. The frustrating part for me is seeing people who ordered after we did, and they have received their range. Truthfully if I had known it would take this long to get the range I would have probably ordered a Bluestar. Hopefully it will be worth it in the end.

For the folks on the fence about the CC. Say the 30" manual clean is a stretch money wise, you only have room for the 30", you don't do Beef Wellington, souffles, wok cooking etc. on a regular basis if ever.

I would add this...

With a real good stovetop with great burners you will get better results with almost any meal save for stews, soups, and such.

Searing,sauteing,pan frying you will get better results.

This will encourage people to cook more and more challenging meals.

Have you ever tried to do something from the food network or cooking channel and you follow the steps exactly as you see on tv or the computer? And somehow the results are not what you expected?

These burners will help you get there.

Friends and family will give you complements.

Positive reinforcement.

You will want to try more exotic dishes.

This is exactly what happened with me in regards to my BBQ grill.

I was doing an ok job with burgers now doing full tenderloins,tandoori chicken,grilling steakehouse perfect ribeyes.

That's strange the post I commented on has been deleted. I didn't know you could delete a post. Or that posts could get deleted on gardenweb.

That is strange... both of those posts with questions about delayed CC deliveries are gone. What's up?

Actually both of nfrmerchante's post are gone????? Odd