Why:
*I use a lot of plastic bowls and cups for the kids and the dish drawers flip them over every. single. time.
* You have to manually clean the filter and even then, the drawers get downright rank smelling. I mean FOUL. This was an ongoing problem which I never solved to my satisfaction.
* I found myself only using one drawer the majority of the time, because it was at a more convenient height. But one drawer isn't a large enough capacity.
* By the time we moved out, one of the drawers (the least used, ironically) was malfunctioning.

The one thing I did like about having two dish drawers was being able to keep dirty dishes off the counter at all times.

Joanna

Not sure about it for everyday dishes cause we don't use it for that, but it is easy on the back.

Nope. Same problems as before. TERRIBLE service. Check out the reputation of your local F and P service provider - individually check their reviews, ask them for other customer recommendations, etc. F and P itself is hopeless - you are totally dependent on your local agency (ours finally admitted that they just didn't know how to service the dishwashers properly and we should try and find someone from further away - and pay them - to come and fix a dishwasher that did not ever clearn properly).

Altogether, over 5 years, we put about $600 in repairs into it and countless hours off work, waiting for repair, and weeks waiting for parts. I had to start studying all the repair invoices to realize that they kept replacing the same two parts (one for each drawer) over and over, and when I pointed that out - they said it was our plumbing

So we paid $300 to have some sort of different drainline installed (although our plumber said he would bet anything that it was the dishwasher).

Guess what? It was the dishwasher. Not only that, but the supposed repairman tried a variety of ad hoc repairs to the drainage outlet, the last one of which caused the total flood of our kitchen - that was great ($3000 in wood flooring gone).

We cannot have the F and P repair people in our house - ever again.

We currently have (supposedly) the ability to alternate between drawers but never use both at the same time. In reality, the bottom one never drains, water from the top one leaks into the bottom one over time and we have to bale it out and keep adding chlorine to keep mildew out of the bottom.

Which is why I am trying to find a new dishwasher. Some days I feel like I'd be willing to pay nearly any amount if only the thing worked. The recent Bosch recall has my DH down on Bosch, ASKO repair place is the same place as the F and P repair place and I already know from a local board that means no ASKO availability where I live.

So it has to be "American" but boy it is hard to find ANY dishwasher that doesn't sound like more trouble than just washing dishes (we're getting sort of used to - or at least my poor DH is, as I have back problems and have a hard time with dishes right now).

I'm thinking a $400 one from Sears that we replace every other year would be better than one where we have to have a repairman in our house every three or four weeks (I'm not counting the pre-service calls the guy made to come and figure out what he thought was wrong - only the times he was here for an hour or more 'fixing' it).

15 or so calls on the first - then we got the second generation model (it at least has one working drawer - the smaller one) and 5 calls until the flood.

Very luckily the place I purchased mine has fabulous service. I also have a F&P refrigerator. The ice maker froze up and I had to have it replaced. I got the fridge because I liked the way the inside was set up and it's one of the only ones that would fit in the space I had to fill.

I hope I'll get used to the dish drawers - I think I've decided recently that you just have to be resigned to moving things around a bit to get it to fill up correctly - or maybe use the bottom for glasses and the top for plates and bowls...?

She also references her unit as being a second-generation model (DD602). There are some design changes on 603 and later, including eliminating the inflatable lid seal mechanism.

It's not the drainhose. That's been checked and rechecked I don't know how many times. So it's a leak. Yes, indeed, it's a leak.

But, we can no longer do business with the F and P repair guy in our area, because he is incompetent. I have been researching appliance repair today - and yes, it probably is/was repairable. We've already spent more than $400 on repairing it -but it was only today that I learned that it is easy to put the machine into a diagnostic mode and look at its past fault codes (something the F and P repairman did not do even ONE time in more than 20 visits).

Yes it's a 602. We had a 601 with its own problems, this is its replacement. We've had two new lid motors on this one (and four total lid motors over the course of both of them). We've had two new pumps. Last pump install (by the same incompetent repairman) the dishwasher developed a sort of whine during the washing cycle. I don't think there was anything wrong with the pump he took out - I think both pumps were improperly installed (by him) and that he doesn't know how to install anything in an F and P dishwasher.

He actually took the high loop OUT of our plumbing at one point and added an open air gap UNDER the sink! Guess what happened then? Yep, the interior of our new cabinet is now a victim of flooding- although having one of those great plastic liners recommended on the Kitchen Forum kept it from being a total disaster (still, there's water damage at the seam of the cabinet).

Fortunately, we have a good plumber. But that good plumber doesn't fix dishwashers. We just tested it again today (dried out the lower drawer, ran the top drawer - and there it is, about a half gallon of water in the lower drawer).

A leaky pump, you say. Yes - but I do not myself know how to put a new pump in; I would have to shop for a non-F and P appliance repairman (or pay a great deal to have one come from a distance).

F and P just says to keep having this same guy come over - but I tell you, he knows nothing about repairing appliances (although he can clear a fault code - and now, so can I). This particular appliance repair "group" consists of one nearly illiterate receptionist (with whom I've had dozens of conversations) and one incompetent repair guy. He should have at least known how to put it in diagnostic mode when the problems started.

So - to those of you with FP DD's, be sure you watch the repair guy. First thing he should do is push a couple of buttons on the controls and put it into diagnostic mode - if he has any training. Our guy admits all his training has been "over the phone" and with a paper manual (and that F and P aren't like the other dishwashers he's more accustomed to repairing). The repair guy seems sincerely apologetic and he agrees with me - that he doesn't seem to know how to fix it.

Four years of this, and now, more than half a year with just one working drawer (but no beeps! no fault codes! and the dishes are clean - we just can't ever quite keep up with dishes after cooking or entertaining).

Clearly not all service techs are competent. Last month I did a repair on a friend's Whirlpool washer. They knew it wasn't working quite right but of course had no experience in diagnosing/fixing the problem. A local "professional" tech looked at it twice in the past, claimed he couldn't figure out what was causing the problem. I knew immediately what was the problem, a very common situation, easy and inexpensive repair, and couldn't imagine why the serviceman didn't fix it properly. I ordered the part, did the fix, and impressed my ex boss and his wife. :-)

I know now that I should have called a further-away, much-more-knowledgeable repair service, but I used the one F and P sent me when it was under warrantee. I think if I had insisted (I did call New Zealand a few times for help) they would have sent a further-away technician - at least in the beginning.

Take a look around at dishwasher-review.com and you'll see that the word "nightmare" shows up a few times in relationship to the DD601's and 602's. The 603's are supposed to be better - so someone ordering one today should not lose sleep over my experience. But of course, it does make me very shy of cool-looking dishdrawers.

We are happy when it works, we never even think about how little it holds and I think twice about using any pot or pan that can't fit inside the working drawer, if I have energy to wash up after cooking - I use it, but I sure don't ever count on the dishwasher. It's useless for entertaining, really, because only the one drawer works. Our problems started (said the repairman) because we were consistently using both drawers at once.

Alternate them for sure and save dual usage for a day when you feel really lucky.

Sure, there are "nightmare" reports on DishDrawers ... same as there are on any other brand/model. KitchenAid, Miele, Bosch, Asko, Whirlpool, Maytag ... all of them. Major appliances are subject to a huge range of environmental, installation, and user-operation conditions. No one appliance fits everyone's needs.

But it isn't just a case, for us, of "every dish manufacturer has an occasional bad machine," it was poor service. We have had two bad machines and two bad floods with property damage, and lesser floods that did no damage because our floors weren't in. Most of this occurred while it was still under warrantee.

It is a beauty, though. That's a great picture of it. I'm sitting looking at mine right now (it suits our kitchen so well). Sigh.

I do use rinse aid
I do used powered dish detergent
I try to be sure I use the bottom drawer at least once a week, if not more.

I'm getting there...

These are "real" loads:
    
    
  

I've had my F&P dish drawers for about 6 years. I love them! We are building, and I plan on putting them in the new house, too! I'm used to diong the BIG pots & pans by hand, and everything else comes out fine.

Our top drawer does not clean well. The bottom drawer is ok. Right now we're not even bothering using the top drawer as nothing gets properly clean.

Also none of our dinner plates fit in either drawer. We bought new smaller ones and they don't fit either. Now we just bought some cheapo plain white plates we found which are the only ones which fit.

We did consider the 'tall' model, but I don't like how off the symetery looks to my eye. It's already off on the normal model.

All in all I'm really disappointed so far. Emailed our appliance seller on Friday asking for help as I will be SO MAD if we have bought an expensive dishwasher which only half works.

I guess we should have gone with the Miele. Ugh.

It's kinda like having a pet instead of an appliance. It needs ongoing care and attention.

Its testy about rinse agent - it really needs it. If you feel its stopped cleaning, check the rinse agent. If you have sandy stuff in the bottom of the tub, you're using too much detergent.

The plastic thing complaint is all true. Something is a little outta wack with the tine spacing.

Some of the others have mitigations that work for me:

* You have to manually clean the filter and even then, the drawers get downright rank smelling.

Scrape dishes well PLUS you have to clean it out frequently. Either get some citric acid from the chemistry store and put in a little once a month and run an empty cycle or use a single serving drink powder that contains citric acid. Some oxygen bleach when it was really bletchy. I've never been brave enough to do both at the same time.

Once, we had to clean the gasket on the top lid. After that, we started making sure there was no food or oil on the rim before closing.

* I found myself only using one drawer the majority of the time, because it was at a more convenient height. But one drawer isn't a large enough capacity.

True, but if you have two, you have to use that bottom one periodically. We run at least a load a week through - generally pots.

I'm pretty convinced the thing gets clogged up with mold otherwise. If you got the mold thing, you might need to wash it all out and perhaps replace the drain lines.

Water in the lower tub after the top tub runs.

We found that to be caused by the two-fer drain rubbery thing on the sink side - turn it so both drains are level horizontally. If the drains are stacked vertically, at least some of the time, when the top drawer pumps out, it ends up using enough force to send the water back up the second hose - even with a high loop.
Bailing out bottom tub.

Well, you don't have to. For either tub, if you turn on a cycle, the first thing it does is bail out the tub. You hear the drawer lock and the tub being pumped out and then it starts the fill. Just cancel the cycle after you hear the pump out.

We had the tech all set to come out today to try and fix the top dish drawer.

My husband opens it, fishes around in the bottom for a while and comes up with a small plastic lid which must have fallen down there during the very first load ever and was why the spinny thing at the bottom wasn't working.

So we try it for another load and it seems to work fine.

I ran it again this morning and again it doesn't clean well. Why? Because the end of a spatula fell below the grid blocking the spinny thing.

So now I have to try it AGAIN to make sure that it's working ok.

So it's probably more user error than anything else. On the other hand I do not recall having to be so careful with how I placed things with any other dishwasher. I now don't know how to put in a spatula so I can be certain the same thing won't happen again. It's a bit frustrating to be honest.

So please if you're reading this thread considering the unit, please disregard my comments above about it not cleaning well. But do bear in mind that the plate size is an issue, as is things falling below the grid and blocking the spinny arm thing. I've never had a problem with that in years of dishwasher use, but have now had trouble with it twice in a week.

Does anyone have any tips on how to load those long, thin items which won't fit in the fork rack, but can fall down and block the spinny thing??

My repairman did tell me when installing mine that most problems with this dishwasher are user errors. SO BE AWARE OF THE LEARNING CURVE.

A few loading ideas:

I do know I didn't load it with the spatula hanging down, so it must have moved. Hopefully it will stay put on that upper rack.

I do appreciate you taking the time to give me some picture examples - very helpful! Phew, who knew I would need lessons in loading a dishwasher. It's quite funny if you think about it! : )

Let's hope the user error ends here!!

I do have another comment: Apparently the dishdrawers don't like the dishwasher tabs, or liquid detergent. So you have to use powder. I must be a clutz, but I find it difficult to pour in without spilling. I'm getting the hang of it, but there are dire warnings in the user guide of all the horrifying things that can go wrong if you spill the jet dry or detergent, so I find it quite traumatic putting the cleaner in. I'm so used to just popping in a tab on a flat surface, so this is another thing to bear in mind, but probably not a deal breaker.

Just tryin gto put down all my thoughts for prospective purchasers!

I'll probably update again in a month or so.

Thanks again!

Someone once recommended using a plastic ketchup squeeze bottle (the kind you find at really sketchy barbecue places or zoo cafeterias) to get the powder in the hole which is definitely tricky. I still haven't located one, and I've been kinda sort of looking for years. So I keep spilling.

It's really important to use powdered detergent (I use Cascade), AND to use a small amount....following the instructions in the F&P manual. I use an iced teaspoon (with its very long handle) and measure out the scant 1 teaspoon for each of the cups, and have never had trouble ensuring the powder goes only into the detergent cups. Before this, I used a plastic spoon.

This is a wonderful appliance, but we must be smarter than the equipment....and that takes attention to detail, and reading the operators' manual. Once you learn what you need to do, I promise it will become automatic and no-fuss for you.

I still have occassions when a particular bowl or glass does not get as clean, but I can almost always spot what I've done wrong in loading it to cause the problem.

The cons are that the plate size limitations still annoy me, but if you can deal with the lack of symemtry on the 'tall' model, that would help that issue.

I have got used to the powder and putting it into the little powder holder - not a problem after my initital concerns about spillage. I think I've got the knack of it.

I LOVE that I can run one of the drawers at a time and still be taking clean stuff out of one while at the same time putting dirty bits and pieces in the other.

So all in all, I would give this unit a thumbs up, and now I am used to it, I might well consider it again in the future. There is a definite learning curve though! : )

For me, one of the greatest asset of having the DW is being able to fit large stuff in it. For example, I wash my blower hood baffle filter in the DW. I can't imagine hand washing that greasy baffle filter... Can you fit that in the DD? How will you fit large cookie sheets and big pots and pans in the DD?

Just curious....

I'd love to hear more feedback - I'd considered them in the past, but was turned off by the negatives. However, now we're going to remodel and I'm wondering if drawers could solve a problem I'm anticipating (namely, tripping over the open dishwasher as you come around the corner into the kitchen).

Glad to hear they seem to be getting better, though.

I'm not a DD owner--yet (planning on them in my future kitchen remodel). Re: the 1/2 load vs DD's. One of the things that really appeals to me is being able to have one drawer washing and still have the ability to be loading dirty dishes. Invariably, as soon as the DW starts running, more dirty dishes start accruing in our sink, so I look forward to being able to continuously have a DW available to load into.

I wouldn't purchase on ebay. Who would back it up if there's a problem? or service it? I bet you can find just as good a deal at a retail store near you... and check for rebates. I found 2 when I purchased mine.

However, it is F and P who chose and trained this "technician" (since I last posted, I've been in touch with our local BBB to see if I'm the only person who has had trouble with this company - I am not).

But - without blaming anyone - surely it makes sense to choose a brand where local service has something better than a D rating on the BBB, yes?

Sears, for example, has an A rating (when we had one incident of poor service/damage down by a Sears service rep - guess what? They REPLACED our appliance - that's a WOW compared to F and P).

After I last posted, I did try one more run at communicating directly with F and P (I got canned responses from beginning to end, not one single word of text directed specifically at my situation).

I'm here today because we really must have an actual dishwasher (we have one working - but leaking - drawer, which is how it's been for 2 years).

Better than nothing, not too loud - but not quiet- and gets the dishes clean. Just can't use the bottom drawer and have to scoop the water out of it, as we've been doing for 2 years.

I keep hearing the newer ones are better, though - and have no reason to doubt people's experience with them.

The dish drawers clean, but not as well as the Miele. Plastic is spotted, dishes don't sparkle and there is the occasional crud left on utensils. The top dish drawer is convenient but the bottom is less reachable than the lower shelf of the Miele. The drawers collect water, have needed more frequent repair and are NOISY.

I don't want to have to wash dishes before the dishwasher washes them! With the DD, I have to rinse my dishes. With the Miele, I don't -- a quick scraping is enough. In fact, I'm told that leaving some bits of food on the plates is helpful -- they make good abrasives. The Miele uses very little detergent, too; its cleaning power comes from heat and water force, evidently. Last but not least, the silverware tray, which struck me as weird and fussy, is incredibly useful. Every utensil sparkles, unloading is a breeze and you can clean silver and stainless in the same load without ruining the silver.

I understand Melisande's frustration with repair people. I had trouble with my FP dryer and a FP technician charged me $110 to tell me that though he didn't know what was wrong with it, it would probably cost $300 to fix it. F&P first said it wouldn't help 'cuz my machine was out of warranty. I called a second time, got someone else and asked about whether it was really F & P's policy to litter landfills with four year old machines. She authorized the repair and got a repair man from a local dealer to do the work. He wouldn't have done the work ordinarily because I hadn't bought the machine from his store. He's been here four times and I haven't been billed. F&P deserves credit for standing by that product. It's still not perfect, but they've tried.

But the time off work, the time spent waiting, the sheer number of calls, and the two repairs that resulted in flood damage and a chipped granite countertop, after which both the repair guy and ourselves agreed he had no idea how to fix the thing...was too much.

Obviously, this would vary from place to place.

BTW, the Kenmore we bought last week arrived with water dripping out of it (about two liters), wet insulation and water all over the outside panel. According to Sears they "test" the pump before they send them out the door, and the pump should have pumped *all* the water out (this one obviously failed its test - the warranty literature, etc., was drenched).

We decided to put the older Bosch into the butler's pantry and order an extra set of drawers to go where the dishwasher was in the main kitchen - we're giving up in a DW in the kitchen. The one flood (which ruined the brand new DH-installed floor - so much work) was enough, the parts on the Kenmore were so cheesy looking when we finally got it, it's a no-go (if we had linoleum in mind it would be different, but we're convinced we want wood in the kitchen, and we already have it purchased).

Melisande, good luck! FWIW, we have wood floors in our kitchen and we love 'em. They've stood up really well after five years, aren't as troublesome with water spills as I thought they'd be and are soft enough that breakage isn't as high as it is with ceramic or stone floors.

I'm a happy F-P DD user, and have been in 2 different houses, and I enjoy your F-P posts. I'm curious...I installed my current F&P DDs in 2005, and my drawers look like yours except they don't have the 2 coat-hook "thingies" that are showing in your photos. What's their purpose? Did they come with your DDs, or did you buy them separately. Other than that, my drawers look like yours.

Regarding starboard's comment about the water in her tubs, I've never had standing water in the DDs (other than that that has collected in the recessed strainer cup). I do scrape off the dishes, so rarely have to clean the strainer....but there is no water in the tub where I can see it...only in the cup. Not sure if that might mean something needs to be checked on her DDs or not.

Those are KitchenAid SureHold® clips that I bought separately. KA changed the clip design and the newer style doesn't fit the DD racks so well. I don't know if the old-style clips are still available.

I checked the cycle count on my unit last week. 519 cycles run on the upper drawer, 109 on the lower. That's average a load every 4 days for the past 7 years, and never any repairs on my DishDrawer.