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bob_thompson67

Range Hood FAQ + personal notes (updated 10/31/2007)

bob_thompson67
16 years ago

During my process of selecting a range hood (which took quite a lot of time & energy), I've come across a Range Hood FAQ on this forum, which was very helpful (thanks to Rick Auricchio for the original info, and "hardwarehack" for the repost). However, in my months of searching for THE perfect range hood, I've gained some wisdom that I would like to share with you folks. Hope this information helps someone to find the right range hood!

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This is an update on the previous FAQ - original text in plaintext, my comments/disagreements in bold.

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Noise: A sone is a measure of sound level used by appliance manufacturers. One sone is roughly equivalent to the noise level of a refrigerator. Fewer is better. Two things make up the noise in a hood: the greater component is the airflow, which makes noise whenever it must change direction. This happens in the filters, around the blower blades, and in the ductwork. The minor component is motor hum. Thus an external blower will not appreciably cut the noise level: you still have all the airflow.

Have to disagree strongly on that one. Motor hum is not a minor source of noise - plenty of cheaper models out there use motors mounted directly to the body of the hood, in essence turning it into a giant speaker.

High-end Italian manufacturers, like Futuro Futuro, use a sound-absorbing motor chamber, which brings the total noise down to a much lower level - 1.0 or even 0.5 sones. Compare this with the TEN SONE rating I've seen on some cheap models (won't insult anyone by name here), and you can see that good engineering CAN make a difference - up to 20x difference, sometimes!

Besides which, the type of ventilation impeller can make a difference - fan-type impellers create a lot more turbulence than squirrel-cage (side-mount, or "tangential") impellers. Once again, the higher-end manufacturers (Miele, Futuro Futuro) use side-mount impellers. Less turbulence, less noise, happier customers.

Overall, if noise is a concern for you, look for models that have 1.) Side-mount (or "tangential") blowers, and 2.) Some sort of motor mount that reduces noise, by aural baffles and/or preventing contact between the motor and the hood body.

Ducting: The terms ducted and vented appear to mean the same thing, that the air is carried outdoors. A hood that recirculates air back to the room will not remove moisture, heat, or some odors, making it of little use when compared to a hood that vents to the outdoors.

You should always check the manufacturer's specs to ensure that you install ductwork of the proper size. (An oversized duct is generally not a problem, but an undersized one will severely limit airflow.) In many cases, you can install a transition to convert the round duct exit on the hood to a rectangular duct that will fit inside a wall between the studs.

Airflow is measured in cubic feet per minute (CFM), where larger numbers mean more air movement. The rule-of-thumb suggests 10CFM per 1000BTU of burner capacity. Thus, for a 60K-BTU cooktop (4 x 15K), you should have a 600CFM hood. Since you rarely, if ever, have all burners on full at once, you have excess capacity that can be used when you really need it. Most hoods have variable-speed controls, which allow you to choose the airflow---and noise level---appropriate to the task.

Agree 110% with the idea of having excess capacity - if your range hood has enough power to handle its duties at the lowest speed, it will generate less noise.

If you have an indoor char-grill, however, you should double the CFM rating, because grills generate a lot of smoke.

If you have an indoor char-grill, you have to understand that even doubling the CFM won't be enough. (That's besides the question of where are you going to find a 1200-1400 CFM residential range hood?) Grills are the bane of range hoods. Even heavy-duty commercial range hoods don't get rid of all the odors coming from a grill. Ever been in a hibachi house? Noticed the monstrous ventilation systems that they have? Still could smell the meat cooking from the dining room? Exactly.

During my research process, I've called quite a few manufacturers, asking about the best solution (money issues aside) for my 48" Wolf range with a grill. The honest ones told me there's nothing that will be 100% effective for the grill, with different explanations. One guy recommended an add-on backsplash-mount high-speed exhaust with intake out near the grill; Futuro Futuro's advice was their 48" Master wall unit, which has 4 additional filter panels that come closer to the cooktop; and so on, and so on. Not one manufacturer said that, yes, their range hood will be 100% effective in removing the air pollution generated by a grill - and these were high-end manufacturers!

Hood size: If possible, the hood should extend three inches to each side of the range; a 36" range should get a 42" hood. This overhang allows for better capture of the smoke, which spreads as it rises. Typical mounting height for a hood is 30" above the cooktop; if you mount the hood higher, you should definitely use an oversized hood. Island hoods are generally specified with an overhang, because the airflow patterns around the island tend to blow the smoke around where it can miss the hood.

Well-designed (read: real Italian, not "Italian style") range hoods can be an exact match for the size of the cooktop, without any overhangs. The reason is simple: even if smoke/odor drifts toward the side, the [cone-shaped] airflow stream catches it & brings it into the filters. Of course, this requires a powerful hood - Miele DA5190 (625 CFM), any Futuro Futuro (all 800-940 CFM), and so on. Basically, stay away from cheap (300-500 CFM) hoods, and you won't have to worry about overhangs and other space issues.

Besides, the selection of 36" and 48" models outweighs the other sizes among most manufacturers. As an example, let's look at the selection of wall-mount units from Thermador, Futuro Futuro, and Miele (my personal top 3):

Thermador - 5x 36", 2x 42", 2x 48" models.

Futuro Futuro - 32x 36", 6x 48", 6x various other sizes.

Miele - 6x 36", 2x 42", 2x 48" models.

Also, whomever you choose to buy from, make sure to ask about the recommended installation height for their models - most will be within the 28" to 34" margin, but it does vary. One size does not fit all.

Filters: The most common filter is the metal mesh filter, which looks like a cross between a screen and a scouring pad. This filter effectively traps grease, but cleaning requires a little effort. Many filters can be cleaned in the dishwasher, but you often need to find room to fit them in with a normal load. If you forget to plan the dish load to accommodate the filters, it's easy to defer cleaning for too long a period.

Baffle filters are metal plates with slots that cause the air to change direction as it passes through the slots. These are quieter than mesh filters, and cleaning them is easier. Grease typically drains into a trough or cup, which must be emptied and cleaned.

Personally, I don't like the idea of having a "grease cup" anywhere in my kitchen. That's gross. But that's just me ;)

Can't see baffle filters being quieter, either, since air changing direction causes turbulence, which in turn causes noise. So how are they "quieter"?

Besides which, I have not seen ONE high-end range hood that has baffle filters standard - not Miele, not Futuro Futuro, not Broan, not Thermador. Something tells me that if all high-end manufacturers avoid a particular technology, that isn't a high-end technology.

The Vent-A-Hood brand avoids all filters by way of its centrifugal-blower design. Rather than a fan blade, the VAH uses a squirrel-cage blower that slings grease onto the walls of the blower housing. The grease drains into a pan below the blowers, where it is removed by dismantling and cleaning the housing and pan. Disassembly of these parts is easy without tools, and they can be placed into the dishwasher for cleaning.

Without filters, VAH claims significantly increased performance and reduced noise levels. The manufacturer typically claims about a 50% more-effective CFM performance when compared to other hoods. (Thus, a 600CFM VAH would perform like filtered 900CFM hoods.) The noise level is reduced because the air doesn't pass through mesh filters or baffles.

Sounds like an interesting concept, and I like the fire-safety aspect of it. Still, after looking at 20+ other manufacturers, it's a bit strange that VAH is the only one using this approach. Genius or weirdo? It's your call.

Make-up air: When a hood draws air from the room, it creates a lowered air pressure in that room (and the house). In a tightly-built house, the hood performance will suffer as it struggles to draw air out. In some cases, this suction can cause air to be drawn into the house through a furnace flue or fireplace chimney. This can cause carbon monoxide to be drawn back into the house---a hazard.

The solution is to provide make-up air, which can be as simple as opening a kitchen window. In temperate climates, this solution works well. In cold winters or hot summers, however, admitting unconditioned air is generally not desirable. One alternative solution is to install a special intake duct near the range: outside air is drawn in near the range, where it's immediately exhausted by the hood. This minimizes the effect on the room environment. (In winter, cold air is probably a good thing near the hot range!)

A more complicated solution involves a fresh-air duct connected to the furnace air-return plenum. The fresh air passes through the HVAC system, where it gets heated or cooled before ending up in the house. Some systems even have an electrically-controlled damper on the fresh-air duct that opens when the hood is turned on.

Older, "loose," homes simply draw in outside air through every door and window frame. Make-up air will still prevent the intake of dust and drafts from everywhere in the house.

Totally agree. Make-up airflow is an often-overlooked aspect of range hood installation, and you should definitely pay attention to manufacturer's advice, as well as your contractor/installer.

Hints: Turn on the hood before you realize it's needed; by then, you've let smoke escape into the room, where the hood cannot capture and remove it.

Clean filters periodically. A dirty filter limits airflow. As the filter clogs, you must turn up the blower speed, increasing noise.

Absolutely - dirty filters will kill performance. I would recommend looking for a range hood that has an electronic "filter cleaning reminder", or at least a function that shows estimated time remaining until cleanup is needed.

Miele's wall-mount hoods have a function that shows how much "life" is left in the filter before it needs to be cleaned (in terms of operating hours).

But Miele's approach is a manual procedure, so you still have to remember to check it. I personally like Futuro Futuro's solution of having the "timer" button backlight glow red when the 60-operating-hours timer is up. It's a "can't-miss" reminder to toss the filters into the dishwasher, then push the button again when you re-install them.

Last but not least, let me point out that warranty coverage on range hoods can differ quite a lot. Be sure to get the whole story - how long does the warranty last, what does it cover (parts & labor, or only parts?), and what conditions will void the warranty.

Warranty coverage can range from a near-useless 1-year parts-only warranty (ok, thanks for the $20 part, now I have to pay $200 to have it replaced?) to a 3-year warranty that includes labor costs (at least for the 1st year), and/or a lifetime blower warranty (which means the manufacturer is REALLY sure about the quality of their blowers).





That's all for now... would love to hear everyone's comments - agree? disagree? have something to add?

Comments (20)

  • shannonplus2
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Forum Members - Is this message from Bob Thompson67 SPAM?

    Mr. Thompson, sorry but I find it odd that you wrote such a detailed messge about hoods when you are just signing up to the Gardenweb today. Further oddness is that you wrote repeatedly about the advantages of the Futuro Futuro hood, including a link. And, furthermore, you included a number of denigrating comments on other manufacturers, both subtly via your tone, as well as overt. Even when you wrote a positive comment about another manufacturer, you immediately countered it with a negative. Typically, the Forum FAQ's are manufacturer-neutral--they're meant to inform the Gardenweb readers on technical issues, rather than steer them towards a particular brand, as your supplement to the hood FAQ does.

    If your write-up is sincerely NOT SPAM for Futuro Futuro, I would advise you to edit it by deleting all mention of the specific manufacturers, including the negative ones, and simply leave your discussion on the technical issues.

    BTW, the VAH design isn't "strange" or "weirdo". No other manufacturers copy it because VAH has a patent on it.

  • bob_thompson67
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My apologies for (unintentionally) violating the guidelines. That was not my intention, and I did not realize that even comparing several manufacturers side-by-side was a problem.

    I have been reading GW for a while, and created an account pretty much for the purpose of sharing my comments.

    I will be glad to edit the post, removing all name references / links / any other material that may seem offensive or non-neutral.

    However, I cannot find an "edit/delete post" link - how do I go about changing what I wrote? Please advise. Thanks!

  • weissman
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    bob: You can't edit or delete posts and frankly I don't see the need - you shared honest comments and from my perspective I don't think you violated any rules unless you work for or sell hoods for Futuro. Yes it's ok to mention brands that you're familiar with and to compare them to other brands.

    Members on this forum are sensitive to shills and trolls but I didn't take your post that way. I found your post informative although I don't necessarily agree with you about baffles vs. mesh filters.

  • reposado
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My shill sensors didn't go off on Bob's post, although I also don't agree with some of his comments. Perhaps the problem is that it purports to be a FAQ post, when in fact it's just one person's opinions based on what seems to be somewhat limited information and experience.

  • john_com
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Those hoods look nice but don't seem to offer much capture area.

  • nataly
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, the guy did say "+personal notes", and did mention that he spent some time shopping for a range hood & wants to share his opinions... Apologized, too, when he realized he missed the guidelines... don't kill him ;)

  • shannonplus2
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's my turn to apologize to Bob Thompson. In my experience on this forum, when you see a person sign up the same day as his/her post, and that post is extolling one particular brand and why it's better than its competition, most (but not all) of the time it's Spam. So, my mistake.

    I do have to add though, that baffle filter hoods are the type that you would see in a restaurant kitchen, where there'll be multiple ranges going at once, at higher btu's than residential ranges, and including grilling. You will not find a mesh filter hood in a restaurant kitchen. The mesh filters will more quickly get clogged/less efficient with grease than the baffles do. I recommend you also look at Wolf and Independent hoods (Independent used to make the Wolf hoods), which are very high-quality, and have baffle filters. (Thermador is not a company that first comes to mind as a leader in hood manufacturing.)

  • julier1234
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am continually amazed at how well our hood handles the smoke from our grill. Really. After hearing over and over how we would never find a hood to handle an indoor grill, we were pleasantly surprised at what a non-issue it became. Our GC had our hood custom made by a local company that does stainless work and hoods for restaurants. It's a baffle and very easy to clean so far. I've popped them in the dishwasher with no problems. Let's also remember the grill on these 48" jobs is just not that big (wish it were bigger frankly).

  • sombreuil_mongrel
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi,
    One glaring error is to state that no high-end hoods come with baffle filters standard. My Thermador hood did. It's the 18" tall, 27" deep variety, with controls on the front. It seems to be model PH42ZS, 42 being the width, substitute 30,36,48 or 54 for different size's model no's. It retails for $2498, so I guess it's _sort of_ high end...
    Where else did his research and conclusions fall short?
    I believe the intrinsic quietness of the baffle filter is that the air stream is not cut by thousands of strands of metal, but only by a dozen or so baffles; each time the air is cut a noise vortex is created. That's why the wind whistles through mesh filters and no noise is induced by baffles. Clear?
    Casey

  • Fori
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I must confess I thought I should buy a FuturoFuturo and I didn't even look at the date of registration. You aren't alone, Shannon.

    I think it's more like a real fan than someone with a financial stake though. Bob really likes his hood. I think the love may have biased the review just a tad, but that's OK. Good to have input, Bob. I know people here have been curious about that brand and not much data were available.

  • tucgran
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    bob thompson unless I missed something, you did not say which hood you purchased and how it has worked for you?
    Thanks for the link to Futuro.

  • bob_thompson67
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    To fori and tucgran: I purchased the 36" Moon Crystal model, island type, (actually it's 35 3/4"). It is quiet - we use the 2nd speed under normal cooking conditions, and it's silent. It looks beautiful in our kitchen, and overall, I'm satisfied with the appearance and performance.

  • Fori
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    hehe. We could tell you were satisfied. It shows. :)

  • Tom Pultz
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bob's choice of a 36" hood for his 48" Wolf range (which Wolf says should not be installed in an island BTW) is a very strange choice to me. I would have wanted a 48 or even 54 myself.

    I'm also curious why no mention of Wolf. How could you spend "a lot of time & energy" looking for a hood and neglect the manufacturer of your range? Seems odd. Wolf makes pro island hoods with 1200 cfm internal blowers or 1400 cfm external rooftop blowers. I'm looking at the pro 42" island hood now for our new Wolf SRT366 6-burner rangetop. I'm also looking at Independent since they have very similarly configured products and have been around for many years.

    I would say that sone noise ratings are worthless. None of the testing will mimic your installed installation. If you want to move a lot of air, you will make noise.

    VAH uses squirrel cage blowers. Big deal, a lot of others do to. I don't see any advantage to the VAH design without filters or baffles, only the drawback of harder to clean. And don't give me this BS about being 50% more effective. It either flows the air or it doesn't.

    Seems like many manufacturers are more in tune with style than function.

  • goldie5
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A quick 'thank you' to Bob for the additional information; I find it very helpful as I navigate this step in the kitchen process.

  • hollylh
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would also like to thank Bob and other polite posters for their info.

    One thing I would like to read somewhere is an explanation of inline blowers and remote blowers. If you have a wall-mounted hood that vents to the outside, what is that?

    It is very interesting to me how different the tone is over here than on Kitchens.

  • guadalupe
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Posting information on this site for people to read and absorb is beneficial to all. You don not have to take the information as gospel, simply weigh it against other information and decide what is best for you.

  • alwaysfixin
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I hadn't seen this thread when it appeared in Oct. I actually find it kinda odd. The OP has never posted again. Maybe it was indeed spam? Either way, I have really found the original Range Hood FAQ very helpful, and have emailed the link to friends cause it's such a good summary. I don't think the OP has added anything helpful to the hood FAQ, and his additions might confuse someone new to the Appliances Forum, or someone struggling with hood choices (the hardest choice for me in my kitchen!). As others have pointed out, it's odd he chose a 36" hood for a 48" range. Odd that he doesn't mention Wolf hoods in his discussion of high-end hoods, even though that's the range brand he chose. Why does he say baffles are not standard in high-end hoods - that's incorrect. And indeed, despite his contention, the greater component of noise in a hood is the airflow. You can have two identical hoods in two homes - the home with the problematic ductwork (i.e. more bends, longer, or narrower) will be noisier despite the identical motors.

    I think the Futuro hoods are a good brand, judging by what others have enthusiastically written on the Gardenweb about them. But I hope that people looking for helpful info on hoods in general will look at the original Hood FAQ rather than the OP's additions.

  • joniir_gmail_com
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i've just begun looking for a hood to compliment my 36" bluestar 6 burner, purchased from eurostoves about 18 months ago. have been using an exhaust fan presently that vents directly outside the house through the wall. in all honesty, have been traveling for at least half that time, so it's not as bad as it seems. in any case, i'm hoping to find a good one (maybe like an independent) that i can just pop into the same hole, that vents out the back. aside from independent is there any other low cost options anyone knows of that will do a decent job? have briefly spoken with trevor at eurostove & independent or prestige were his thoughts. i live in the middle of nowhere, iowa & it's online or a trip to chicago for me.