Mminkous, you seam to like figuring stuff, so I'm asking you. Just got off the phone with Wolf, and they said 3/4" is all they require, no mater the length of run, but you mentioned length, and I don't want to pay to have this done more than one more time. I have 1" pipe coming into the house about 4' long. It tees off at that point, reduces to 3/4" for 27' tees off to my dryer, then reduces to 1/2" for 55' to my stove. From the 1" pipe to my stove is a total of 82' Wolf says I just need to replace the 55' run, with 3/4". Because of the length, do you think that is enough, or should I replace the first 27' up to the dryer, or more with 1"? The stove is the 60" two full size ovens, 6 burners, and 24" griddle.

Dave....I feel your pain about the Bluestar.....although I have to tell you that the display at Tasco would not be one to inspire huge amounts of confidence in going Bluestar over Wolf.....lots of fit and finish issues....

I have a couple of ideas that I want to test - of course I need to wait for my ventalation to be installed and to see if I experience the problem as well.....I will keep you posted.

Marion K.

Plumorchard - the air intake for the oven, per the specs on Wolf website, is located in the area between the bottom of the oven door & the curb cover. I checked because that's where it is on my DCS (& probably most other pro stoves) & I was curious after keeping up with this thread. On my DCS, it's just a cutout of the stainless. I'm not positive, but I think the air intake on old stoves were also located somewhere near the burner, as logic would dictate. The idea that a tech has such a basic lack of knowledge about gas stoves is scary.

I don't know how ovens in antique stoves vented, but all that I've had in the last 30-40 years have vented somewhere behind the back burners so island trim is just a new variation on an old theme.

Hester

Antique stoves had pilot lights rather than electric ignition - I think it's a combination of that plus the venting that may be causing the problem.

Had a follow up call from Wolf today. I told them I had not heard from anyone since Wed. She checked her notes and said "yes, I see here that we are ordering you the 6" riser" and I said, "the one I don't want" - and she said "you mean you don't want this part?" - went through the whole story again. She was going to check on some things and call back this afternoon.

antiquesilver - thanks! sure makes sense to me. weissman - sounds about right, I think.

Well, I wish I could share my findings with you re: the new range and the higher riser but sadly, I don't have the range yet, but I do have the riser.

I've learned another sad lesson: I am at the mercy of the distributor. I believe that Wolf truly wants to make me happy. Unfortunately, they have to go through the channels (that they've created mind you) available to them.

That leads me straight to a company in Laval, Quebec called Maroline which has so far been utterly useless. I won't bore you with the details but I've had to phone Wolf several times this week to essentially try to get them to light a fire under Maroline. Still, nothing.

Maroline told me again today that they couldn't switch out the riser and that they didn't receive the order yesterday to do so from Wolf even though the riser had arrived via UPS this afternoon from Maroline. How can that be you may ask? General incompetence I'd suggest.

I still have no answer as to when I'm to receive the new range although the people I've spoken to at Wolf are clearly sympathetic and exasperated. Yet, on I wait.

bob411, sure, let's do some cross-checking. It's good to do it once, and then cross-check with the plumber's calculation. Please find out the BTU requirements for all of your gas appliances. Dryer, water heater, heater, etc. You can find them on some labels on the appliances.

Pipe length certainly matters. To give an example, and this is straight out of the 2006 UPC (Uniform Plumbing Code), going from 20ft to 70ft on an 1/2-inch schedule-40 pipe, your BTU capability drops from 99K to 50.6K (*). That's half!

(*) In.pressure

The follow up call from Wolf that was to come this afternoon did not....

Mminkous, thank you for doing this. My furnace is 100,00 water heater 40,000 the 1' pipe tees to the furnace, and water heater, the other part of the tee reduces to 3/4" and goes 27' to the dryer that is 22,000, then 55' of 1/2" to the new Wolf. I'm a little confused about the Wolf, it lists things separately on the label. Right oven 30,000 left oven 30,000. It lists right , and left separately, but only lists oven broiler 18,000 each oven has a broiler, I don't think you could use both the oven, and broiler at the same time, so I think since 18,000for either broiler is less than the 30,000 of either oven I think you can just skip the broiler. It lists oven top as 16,000 I think that means a burner, which I have 6 of. Griddle 18,000 My griddle is 24" I know you can get a 12" griddle, so since the burners are individual, I don't know if that is the griddle total, or half of it.

bob411, no problem at all, i'll take this offline and send you followups thru email just not to confuse folks here. :)

Too late--but then, I confuse easily! LOL!

Seriously, if someone solves the problem before my next svce call (Wed) please do let me know so I can pass the info on to the powers-that-be....

I used the range twice over the weekend. Sat am, no clicking all was fine. Then Sat pm, bingo, phantom clicking while the burners were on and the oven was in pre-heat. I grabbed the camera and thought I had it in video. Just went to download and it wasn't there. Drats! I will try to get it again tonite! The gremlins!!!

Plum, I think you need to get aggressive with Wolf. Your range is defective. Period.

That being said, I still can't report on my replacement with higher rise but I did FINALLY receive a call this morning with an official plan for Wednesday. They're sending someone from the big city again, which is good because at least this gentleman has actually worked on and installed these before.

I will put that thing through its paces on day one and let you guys know. It's either going to work as it should or I'll have $6080.66 burning a whole in my pocket and an empty spot in my kitchen.

I honestly think the problem could be related to the trim design (which manifests itself when using the island trim because it is lower and therefore closer to the burners/range top). The Wolf trim, unlike the trim/risers on some other ranges, vents forward, not up. This could be causing our burner issues. Not to praise my late, not too great Jade, but we had the island height trim which had its venting on the top, not in front. Burner performance during and after pre-heat was NOT an issue. Now, the Jade had sealed burners, so I don't know if that was a factor or not, but I still have to wonder if forward facing/pointing vent openings vs. upward pointing vents could be a design flaw (easily corrected by making island height trim with the vents on top rather than in front rather than making us all get higher risers)......

Wow, this has been a real informative and eye opening thread. I am currently looking to purchase a 36" all gas stove, and have narrowed it down to Wolf and Capital. After reading the posts, I am not sure I want either.

Does Wolf not understand that in this day and age that their customers from around the continent can easily exchange their experiences with each other? They should have quickly and definitively addressed this issue and kept their customers happy. Otherwise, potential buyers like myself will be very leary about dropping $5500 plus for their product.

Can anyone determine if this is a wide spread design flaw with this range or a batch/component problem?

Kinda surprised that Wolf hasn't taken the opportunity to atleast post a message here to say that they are working on everyone's problems.

Thanks.

I tried to figure out if it was widespread as you can see by the original post. I think it's 5 of us on this board so far that have the problem. Wolf has had absolutely no consistency in dealing with this and have yet to directly admit to any one of us (I think) that the problem even exists on an "official" level.

I don't blame you for being nervous. Having been through all this B.S. (not, as in Blue Star) over the past 4 months and going I WOULD NOT buy Wolf again.

That being said, I'm not sure what I'd buy instead but I would definitely take my chances elsewhere. It's a boatload of money for a massive headache.

keitel - I agree with you. That is why I wanted the tape, because I am getting the "customer states...." with a tone like no one believes me because it doesn't do it with the tech. (It did back in May but didn't this past visit) I want to have the proof I need.

But then again, even after explaining to them exactly when it does happen they come in and start messing around with stuff and end up turning the oven on first. By the time I stop all of that, it is too late. Anyway, I will get it and then continue to go after them.

I too am surprised in the lack of resolution of the part of Wolf after hearing so many great things about them.

Let us know how it goes Wed.

Ok, I've been following this post and litigatorchef, I don't get why you threw Capital into the mix - My Capital, granted, has only been in Since August, but works like a champ. I am thoroughly delighted with my decision.

I hope all you guys get your range issues resolved. This is quite a drag for you.

I have been following this thread and really hope that Wolf stands behind their product...I am in the process of building a new home and planned on the Wolf 6 burner Range top - does any one have either a positive or negetive bit of advise for me on this Wolf product?

Snoozie
I have a 6 burner 48" rangetop (has a griddle) and have had absolutely nothing to complain about in the year we have had it. The problems above are all related to the presence of an oven probably venting combustion products where it shouldn't. The only issue I have in common with the above posters is that going from low to the medium click stop results in a partially ignited outer burner ring. The remedy for this is not to stop at the medium click stop but continue on a little way toward high. One (at least I don't) doesn't have to go all the way around to high to achieve full ignition. This is now so habitual I don't even notice it; just a little additional twist of the wrist then back to medium. And it seems to be a small price to pay for an outstanding performer. (However what Keitel and the others are experiencing is an entirely different story. I'd be distinctly irritated.) From my point of view, you are in no danger going with the (open burner) rangetop.

"I think it's 5 of us on this board so far that have the problem."
Make that 6. I have had my 36" AG for over 2 years and this problem has always been there. When my igniters go into clicking mode, sometimes even shutting off all burners and the oven won't stop it. I eventually have to go to the breaker panel and kill the power to the stove to get it to stop. So far, I haven't been able to duplicate the condition for the benefit of the repair tech. It's most common when the burners are already lit and I turn on the oven, but sometimes it occurs even when the oven isn't being used at all. The repair tech claimed he had never heard of this problem, but I doubt it. I think he just didn't want to add fuel to the fire, so to speak. Gary

snoozieb- I would not think that there would be a problem with the rangetop since there is no oven to interfere, which is exactly what capecod said...should have read that first! Sorry....

Gary
Your problem sounds a little different. Your igniters just start clicking. Do you experience the problem with you burners not igniting even with the igniters clicking when the over is on? Or do they just start clicking all by themselves. You said they wouldn't stop even if you shut off all the burners. The issue so far has been the burners wouldn't light in the first place. Seems like some Blue Star owners had a similar problem a year or so ago that was traced to a bad batch of igniter modules made in Mexico. Anyway sounds like a different gremlin unless I misunderstood you.

Sometimes it's that the igniters click but the burners won't light. Other times they will light, but only after so much time has gone by with gas escaping that they light with a boom. My wife has become so gun shy that whenever she hears the clicking sound for more that a couple of seconds she starts to stress out in anticipation of the boom. Still other times the clicking will start when burners are lit, and just keep going. I don't think my problem is all that different from the others - they all sound intermittant enough to add to the confusion, but I think the source is probably the same faulty parts/design/workmanship - take your pick. If the problem were easily quantifiable or duplicated, someone probably would have pinned it down by now, but not Wolf. They have already shown how interested they are in fixing their stoves. Gary

Hey all - I think I finally got it on tape! Here is a link...not sure about the quality but I got it doing the clicks and not re lighting completely.

It is a short video.

I did this for Wolf but wanted to let you know I got it. They will get this soon.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wolf Video

Good video plum. I wouldn't think they can ignore that....

Good job Plumorchard!! Hopefully they'll admit the problem and make it right for all of you that are having problems.

bob411, i dropped you an email regarding pipe size calculation, hope you got it and found it useful. enjoy!

Mminkous thank you, I did get your email, and responded, I was wondering if you got my response. DW called the county court house yesterday, to try to find out who to talk to. To make a long story short, there is no one to talk to. Last person I talked to, the very nice lady from the sheriff's department, suggested call a plumber, and ask them. Wasn't going to DIY this project anyways, So I'll just ask them.

One thought on the island trim. The slots on my island trim are on the top. The slotted part is at an angle, like one side of a house roof. Heat rises, so I don't get what the island trim could have to do with it.

Bob411....

There are 2 things that I can think of around the island vent is that by being angled towards the stove top that might be the cause of this. One - there could some sort of turbelence created over the burner that is working - causing the weird flame pattern that plumorchard caught on video. The second thing that I can think of is some type of gas that the igniter of a non-turned on burner(bad English, I know but....too early in the morning and no coffee yet) is recognizing as low gas causing it to try to ignite the burner causing the clicking sound of the igniter....

The theory is that the 5" or higher riser would then vent high enough over the range that it would no longer affect the burners. Should be able to test by putting a cookie sheet in front (which I thought Keitel did) and or put smoke generator over the range top while this is happening (dry ice maybe???).

I guess the other thing that is bugging me is if we (I) think that it might be either of the 2 scenarios above, why wouldn't this go away with the use of the vent hood which should in theory pull all of this stuff up since I am pretty sure my 600CFM hood has to have more pull than the rising of hot air/gases....

Haven't had a chance to try anything yet as my ventalation is not yet hooked up (but I have water, a DW and a wall oven as well as the stove top so I can't complain) and I don't want to try anything with the oven until I have that in place.....

Still don't get why it doesn't happen with Duel Fuel island trimmed ranges unless we really do think that it has something to do with the composition of the heat exhaust from the AG.....

Lots of confusion......will report as soon as my oven is operational....

Marion K.

Plum
Boy, seeing makes this a lot clearer (but still baffling.) The fact that the left hand burners spark even though turned off is explainable. All burners spark when you turn one on to light and you had one burner on. The question is what set off the sparking in the first place. I assume you never have sparking with all burners off? Other than Gary's recent post I didn't realize random sparking was also an issue here-was concentrating on the partial ignition. Not sure this is even related to the partial ignition problem And looking at your nice blue flames, there seems to be no chance the gas is being contaminated by combustion gas from the oven, either escaping from vent leaks below the surface of the range or from the island trim vent. If CO2 were mixing in they would be yellow. And given the strength of the flames, I would guess pressure is no issue (can't remember if you had yours checked or not.)

I'm with knitter above. I have never bought into the island trim theory causing rogue air currents or spreading combustion products, especially to a front burner. Ventet gases go straight up. I can feel no hot gases anywhere around the surface when I run my griddle, only when I hold my hand directly above the vent. Which leaves us with the hot air current theory of someone's which says air heated by the top of the oven escapes past the narrow ring around the burner causing enough draft to inhibit ignition on part of the burner. Simple test/question. Do you have this problem immediately after you turn on the oven or does it have to get hot before you get the partial ignition.

And refresh my mind please. We are almost 300 posts into this and I haven't the time to go back and look. When you get the partial ignition you showed, if you blow on the burner or wave your hand around does it finally fully ignite?

So the clicking happening when you try to light a burner I get. The video showed though the clicking of the igniters with one burner going and no action being taken to light any other burners. So what would cause the rogue clicking at the outset. The range thinking that there is gas flowing to a burner but not lit (the auto re-ignite feature that Wolf talks about?????) - why would that happen - is there a sensor that is off on the ignitors that would recognize some component of the exhaust over the range as low gas???? Incomplete combustion from the oven - let's hope not......I would think that we would catch the smell of natural gas if that were the case.....

Still not buying the island trim though.......

Plumorchard - couldn't tell from the video - when you tried to relight the burner was the knob on high or had you moved down to the medium????

Marion K.

No, when there is partial ignition, blowing on it does not help.

Way back when, I started all of this by having random sparking and having to flip my breaker to get any igintion whatsoever.

Since then, I get partially lit burners more often than sparking but sparking does occur for me ONLY when a burner is not totally lit.

I have tried the cookie sheet in front of the vent but only briefly and it made no difference.

We should try to stop mixing issues here. The whole thing about going from simmer or low to medium is a red herring. That's just the way the range works and let's leave that alone.

The issue is simple: when the oven is on, in any capacity, the burners do not work correctly. They partially light. This leads to sparking as the ignitors do not recognize a partially lit burner as being lit.

That's all there is to it. I am stunned by the fact that these posts are numbering somewhere around 300, it's been going on for months with several people experiencing the same issue and Wolf, with its almighty reputation and matching price tag HAS DONE NOTHING CONCRETE ABOUT IT.

Let's call a spade a spade and admit that whatever the company once was, it is no more. In short, Wolf sucks and we should all get new ranges. If they do the same thing, we should all get our money back and move on. It has become that simple to me.

capecod - no, we have not had clicking when everything is off. We do not have the issue IF the oven cycles thru pre-heat and then we use the burners. The only way we can ever get full ignition again is to turn everything off, wait a few minutes and then use the burners only.

Here is what happens in my case, turn a burner on ( or burners - it has happened w/single and multiple burners going) - cooking along fine. Decide to turn on the oven. It starts the preheat cycle, then before the light ever goes out (cycle finished) the phantom clicking starts. It has something to do with the oven in preheat while burners are on. So it keeps clicking until I either turn off the oven, or turn off the burners. I have turned off the oven before and it has continued. So I usually turn everything off just to be safe. When we go back to reignite the burners (to finish cooking whatever is sitting there) we get the partial flames. There are times when I have to wait a good 10 minutes to try again, it won't light at all. Other times, and most of the time, it is the partial ignition. (Marion - we are relighting at high - then I usually turn it down to see if the flames will disburse properly - usually not, and I turn it off again.)

This has happened on every burner - not just the right front - although I use that one most frequently.

IF I preheat first - full cycle - (they don't lite properly until that darn light is out!) then use the burners it seems to work fine.

Yesterday, while trying to get it on video (the one I didn't get at first) it did click longer than I have ever let it because I was trying to get the camera going. I did smell a faint bit of gas then, and turned it all off. Usually I turn it off pretty quickly.

I am pretty sure I tried to the pan over the vent test back in March - but I am going to try it again.

Oh, and yes, we did have the pressure checked by the gas company (to the house) and by the servicer (to the stove - each visit!) The initial fix was to replace the regulator even though everything read properly. But it did not change anything.

Thank you all for the input - you are all great! Wish Wolf was as concerned - still waiting on that follow call...nope, I'm calling them now.

My only guess knitter is that the sensor in the on burner fails and tries to reignite the on burner, which of course causes all the burners to click. Does this happen with just this one burner or do you get rogue clicking on any on burner Plum? Maybe a bad batch of ignitors/sensors got into the field?

Capecodcook - that is the theory that makes the most sense to me.....

I wonder if we should start another thread asking Wolf DF owners to comment......it just doesn't make sense that this is a AG only problem......

Marion K.

Happens with any of the burners, but only while the oven is in preheat...no other time.

Again, was told by many the DF would not have the issue because the oven was electric not gas and did not ignite the same way.

Just got off the phone with Wolf - I called them, again. The person I spoke to Friday bounced me to someone else. Had to tell the whole story again - read notes, said "the riser is on order" - told them didn't want it, etc. Want to know what the problem is, why it is doing this, etc. He was going to talk to tech and call me back. I mentioned that others are having the same issue and that I would be glad to forward the video. He will call back (we will see).

Then called retailer, he was very irritated that no one had contacted me since last Wed - when service was here. He is checking on some things too. Waiting....

cat mom- I mentioned the person you named in your email. She isn't in tech support she is in customer support - according to the guy I just spoke to. Just wanted to let you know.

In our case, we only had the clicking the one time (when DH turned on one burner and left it lit, with no pot/pan on that burner during pre-heat). I didn't realize DH had left the burner lit, and heard the clicking while in another room.

What we have experienced, and not every time or not to the same degree each time, is turn on the hood (on low) and turn on oven, and then, while the oven is preheating, turn on one or more burners to cook something on top of the range. The burner(s) either fails to ignite, or goes through a few rounds of clicking and then ignites, but often very poorly (the type of sporadically lit jumy flames that plum showed on her video). After preheating is completed, the burners have worked fine as far as I recall, except for the one burner which has had trouble going down to simmer on at least a few occasions so far (either goes out completely when turning dial to SIM or only lights 1/2-way, until we turn the burner off and on a bunch of times and then it seems to "catch"). According to the senior tech we'd spoken with at Wolf, this simmer ring issue is directly related to the other burner issue(s) we've been experiencing.

If you recall, when we had the one svce tech here (the svce call before last), he came in, turned the range hood on, on high, turned the oven on, and then turned all the burners on, on high--no problems whatsoever. As you all pointed out to me when I'd first posted this, one should NOT have to turn the hood on, on high, in order for the burners to work during pre-heat. I agree, as did all the various techs on the tech line(s) at Wolf as well as the svce mgr for the svce company.

I don't know if my burner problem is part of the same problem that keitel and plum are experiencing--am I experiencing the same problem to a lesser degree or is it a separate issue entirely? That's just one of the million dollar questions I guess.

I will let you all know what transpires here tomorrow. I'm not expecting much in the way of a breakthrough, but it's often when expectations are the lowest, that I'm often pleasantly surprised. Maybe this will be one of those times (oops there I go, raising my hopes/expectations again!).

plum--according to her, there are three levels of tech support, she's a level 2, and the senior guys on the tech line are a level 3. She always checks with the senior guys/techs to verify any of the info she's giving us, or to get an answer if she doesn't have one herself.

She had us get a senior tech/tech line on the phone while the guy from the svce co was out here last week. Do you have the name of the person with whom you just spoke (is he on the tech line or cust support)? You can email it to me (if you'd rather not mention it here) so we can see if we're dealing with the same guy at this point.

Just heard back for the service rep who talked to the tech rep at wolf. Here is the latest story...

it is the island trim - there is air in front and air behind the trim that is used and it it isn't accessing the air behind. The riser will take the air up and away from the burners.

Now, the oven is sucking burnt air and it isn't what it needs so it sucks air from the front affecting the flames. (all the way to the front of the range???)

The air behind is "unburnable" and can't be used. The oven has a primary intake at the bottom of the range and secondary at the burner level. If in a true island the air would be behind the range. ( I can put my hand behind the range!) Needs fresh air all of the time. (Where is this secondary source come from if the riser is higher - wouldn't it be the same issue but just higher? There is still a wall there? It just would not be a burner level)

The riser acts as a chimney and removes the unburnable air from the flames of the burners.

"So we will try this to see if it works" - asked him what if it didn't. Well, we can address that later.

Dual Fuel does not suck in air, doesn't need it to ignite. Would not have this issue with dual fuel.

Still very, very upset that purchasing decisions for this range were made based on the possible incorrect information from so many people.

This level of service is not what I would expect from any company, let alone one that touts it's reputation as Wolf does.

If this indeed the problem, I can either live it or get a riser I don't want (tile issues and $$). Either way, Wolf has not met my expectations to say the least!

Oh & it is funny catmom - two people have said ... and you are sure you aren't using the hood during this time. Funny how you are suppose to use it and I am suppose to not use it!

Grrrrr......

So maybe my theory about the island trim being poorly designed is plausible..... That slight difference in the angle/direction of the vent holes could mean the difference between the thing working in applications like ours (agains the wall) or not, no?

The woman we've been dealing with at Wolf and the senior tech both told us we should NOT NEED to use the hood in order for the burners to work, but never said we couldn't use it (they all still feel it's a good idea to use the hood when using any part of the range; oven or burners as per Wolf's directions in the manual), just that it's NOT NECESSARY to use the hood for good burner performance during pre-heat or any other time.

The svce guys (except for the svce mgr) all seem to feel that using the hood (and on high no less!) IS necessary in order for the burners to function while the oven is preheating (and maybe even while in use, period).

No wonder we're confused, huh plum? One person tells me one thing, another tells you something else, and yet another tells us both something different, and then Dave gets another story entirely.

Between the range issues we've had (both the Jade and the Wolf), our pot filler faucet parts popping off all over the place, and fridge doors that keep on developing pinging noises while opening/closing them...is it any wonder I keep telling people we're only 99.9% done with our kitchen reno (and am afraid to begin the bathrooms reno planning)?!?!

bob411, I didn't get your email reply, but that's ok. Saw your post, and hope you find the chart for your area.

On a different note, I start to doubt all the speculation about turbulence, draft, including my own, although I did do an experiment (that was when I asked cat_mom for help in posting pics) where I replaced the open-burner drip pan with a self-made DF-style sealed pan (sealed to the best I can) and I DID get "better" results. As I mentioned before, I have the 10-inch riser, and I do have some of the problems mentioned in this forum. Puzzles me...

mminkous
Whole thing is puzzling. What happens if you just remove the drip pan entirely? If hot air turbulence rushing through the gap between the pan and the burner is causing partial ignition (one theory mooted about here), removing the pan should spread the hot air currents over the whole half the stove top and render them ineffectual I would think.

Well, I'm in the middle of my initial burn-off after wiping the thing down. Wow - what a difference from the first one i.e. the black burning plastic vs. no black burning plastic. I smell nothing this time and last time there was smoke and stink pouring out of it the whole time.

So, I've lit and re-lit the burners about 10-15 times while the oven is firing. I report inconsistent results. Sometimes only half of the outer ring would light but blowing on it fixed it. Rarely does the entire inner burner light, blowing or not. The front right burner would click for a long time and then BOOM combust. It did that about 4 times and then stopped.

When it was doing that I thought I'd take the burner assembly apart and put it back together again. Turns out I can't get the drip pans out. No, really. They're so tightly wedged in there with the riser not helping that I literally can't get them out. Picture tectonic plates. They push up on each other but there's not enough room to take even one of them out. Result: I need new drip pans I guess or I'll never be able to clean them or take the burners out. I've also got a loose piece of metal on the front that sits behind the burner knobs. It moves and clicks when I push either the light or the fan button.

Am I happy so far? Guess.

capecodcook, yup, that fast-moving draft thru the tight open-burner gap was one theory i proposed above. next, i built an exact-shape drip pan with much bigger open-burner gap like the viking, no improvement. next i built a DF-style sealed (to the best i can) pan, and the results were much "better." Removing the pan completely gave the most consistently-good results.

keitel, please keep us posted. :)

this science project has become a bit addictive...

Ok, I take that "no smoking" back. At 500 it's been smoking pretty solidly for 45 minutes.

I looked more closely at the drip pans. Either the pans or the range is significantly out of square. The holes in the pans don't line up with burner assemblies so they need to be really pushed in to get all 3 together. I know this because after wrestling with the whole thing and pulling up much harder than I was comfortable doing all 3 kind of popped violently up and out. Getting them back together was equally difficult.

Unbelievable.

keitel - I am so sorry! I was hoping you would be so pleased with the new range.

I was looking at the riser again today and thinking about the whole air thing (above) and noticed the vents don't even really open to the back very much. It is slanted at the front and a tiny bit in the back but I still don't think the riser is the issue. I think it is a band aid.

I am expecting some follow up calls tom. I will post later. In the meantime, we are getting close to the max of this thread! Let's be sure and keep it going so we can figure out everyone's resolution!

mminkous - you (and others) have put so much in to this! Thanks!

Not to beat a dead horse but....

after the chat yesterday with all the intake, needs air, etc. discussion...I decided to look at something again.

I just pulled up the installation guide (from the Wolf Web site) and it says on p5 that the two sources of air intake for the range are at the bottom and under the bullnose/at the knobs. So, not at the riser which clearly shows air blowing out, not coming in. According the specs, the theory from Wolf as recent as yesterday could not be correct. (unless of course the manual is not correct?)

Either way, leads to even less confidence in the whole situation!

I started a new thread for follow up....

Here is a link that might be useful: Wolf Cont.

"Ok, I take that "no smoking" back. At 500 it's been smoking pretty solidly for 45 minutes." I described the same situation (smoking) about 2 years ago on this forum. Looking for the source of the noxious smell coming from my brand-new AG range, I found that there is a metal plate behind the decorative toe kick that is just painted, not porcelain, that is in very close proximity to the flame. It was that paint burning off that was causing the smoke. 2 years into my Wolf adventure, I still smell it if I don't run the exhaust fan whenever the oven is on. I raised a fuss with Wolf over this at the time, mentioning toxic chemicals and health hazards. I eventually got them to replace my stove entirely, but of course the new one had the same flaw. I considered it a moral victory. Amazing that they haven't dealt with the burning paint issue after all this time. It seems they will replace an occasional stove for the squeekiest wheels, but they don't really care to improve the product. Gary