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kkperry_gw

Built-in panel-ready french door 36' refrigerator

KKPerry
12 years ago

I am reading through all the posts I can find on this subject - but I would like try to see if there is an elusive solution or better balance the pros/cons as I seem to want the impossible.

We had selected the KFCO22EVBL - KA french door 36" panel ready... and now I am being advised by KD (who we really like and is extremely knowledgable) and a 2nd appliance guy that it will look cheesy and like we were too cheap to go SZ so we glued panels on...they'd advise stickign with SS unless we bump up to a built-in fridge **Anyone have this frige with panels that can post pictures?!? Would greatly appreciate it!

I certainly don't want to go through all this work and expense, for our long-term home, and take a short-cut we will regret... Are there any other solutions out there short of spending 8k on a refrigerator? Here are some more thoughts/details

* We are willing to pay for good value but not a name brand for the sake of the name. We are paying more than we thought for a 48" duel-fuel range for design reasons and functionality (as there was not a convenient space for wall ovens and we wanted the focus of the range hood & backspash) - but we selected KA again not Wolf/Viking.

* I appreciate the distinctions (as I understand them) on the features for built-ins and fully-integrated (not necessary for us - it is a refrigerator)- but for what is most important to me it comes down to paying 3 times as much basically for the hinges and the look. I am willing to pay more for the look, but 3 times more?

* And functionality - I really would prefer french door (althouh that is not a deal breaker) and love the size of the bottom freezer in the KFCO22EVBL with the 3-levels (have used extensively at friend's house) I have looked at the built-in KA's that are side-by side or the small bottom freezer. They are still around 5K (and I have to add the cost of panels) to get the fridge style I dont' prefer.

I know the easiest answer would be to stick with stainless steel - but we are opening up the floor plan and with its prominent position from most of the rooms, I feel it will be a distraction and more of a contemporary look - we are going for earthy and Tuscan. Our DW is to be paneled (also KA btw which I love).

I would love any feedback, thoughts suggestions. Oh, I don't have room to easily expand to at 42" due to a window. We have a 2nd (maybe 3rd fridge) in other locations do didn't think we need to give up the space in the kitchen.

Thanks!

Comments (19)

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It depends on what kind of panels you're getting and what you want your fridge to look like. Remember, this is your kitchen, not theirs.

    Pure opinion:
    I think panels look weird with through door dispensers.

    I think slab panels look better than dimensional ones, especially if it's not flush integrated (i.e., can't tell it's a fridge from the rest of the cabinetry except maybe the size).

    I think that Shaker style panels look better in this situation than raised panels.

    What do you like?

    As far as I can tell, you like KA French door with wood panels that blend better with your decor.

    Why shouldn't you have that? If you think your cabinet doors won't look so great on your fridge, you can do something a bit different. You could make it look like a real armoire, for instance, and have it contrast a little. Are you doing any glass uppers? You could use the same kind of door on the uppers of the fridge but with mirrored glass (same texture as your cabinets). You could do chalkboard paint panels and use them for menus, shopping lists and let the kids draw on the bottom part.

    Whatever you do with it, you can also have the cabinet surround tailored to make it look more like a built-in than if it's just sticking out with the sides showing.

    I, personally, love built-in fridges, but free-standing fridges aren't awful or anything. The reason I don't like the raised panel doors on them is that they tend to look puffy and bloated. OTOH, they're also thicker than they have to be. If you want those, however, you could have your contractor cut them so that they're only veneers (deepest part is about 1/8" thick). Since they're mounted on the fridge rather than free swinging, they don't need to be thick.

    And if you think that your panels will look good on your choice of fridge, and you're happy with your choice, stick to your decision. Your spouse and family should have a say, but the others work for you. It's right for them to bring up their concerns so that you make an informed choice, but it's your choice.

  • KKPerry
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oppps - obviously I meant 36" not 36' (late a night fat fingers).
    Thanks plllog - some good things to think about. We don't have the space for a separate armoire but thinning down the panels is a great idea - because of course we aren't selecting a slab or shaker style door. It won't be too puffy but there is some dimension to the door style, so cutting it down may be a great option.

    We did decide against water/ice through the door between repair issues and that sort of defeats the purpose of the panels (so maybe I don't want everything)

    I rationalized late last night that I'd feel comfortable spending twice as much on a built-in (KA or other) IF it was the french-door function we'd prefer. I do not see a 36" KA option, but do see Dakor, Liebherr and Thermador... still more money but not jumping up to SZ - anyone have thoughts or experience with these?
    Thanks!

  • friedajune
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree with Plllog's wise post. But I have to add--just my humble opinion--that a french door fridge, with its 3 doors, can look busy with 3 pieces of panelling, which can indeed look "tacked on" if you are not careful. An alternative as you know is to get a flush built-in look, and I agree that's a lot of $$$. Plus the SZ isn't fooling anyone since it has that grill on the top.

    Frankly, I never understand why people want to disguise a fridge in a kitchen. Everyone knows it's a kitchen. I understand that you will have an open floor plan. But given that you will have a big 48" range, a 48-54" hood over it, plus sink and faucet, etc. no one is going to think that the space open from the living room is anything but a kitchen. "Blending" into the living room, disguising the kitchen as if it were actually a library or den, will not be possible with the 48" range, etc.

    Have you seen any of Giacomo_it's kitchens? Now THOSE are kitchens that can truly be integrated into the rest of the open floor. Everything flush, seamless, no raised panels. But it takes a lot of money and a very skilled KD to do that.

    BTW, re the KA DW. It is a great DW. Just be aware that it sticks out 1/4" to 1/2" more than the European DW's like Miele. If your installer is aware of this and knows what he is doing, it is not a problem. If your installer is not, you will not get a flush look with the KA panelled DW.

  • honeychurch
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have the Thermador Freedom 36" french door fridge, have been using it about a year. It was expensive, but less than the SZ or the Miele. We chose it because a) we had to get french door or side by side for door clearance issues and b) we wanted that seamless integrated look. We have been happy with it, and in fact, most visitors are shocked that it is a fridge (they think it is a pantry and that our fridge is "in another room"?!?!):

  • KKPerry
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I greatly appreciate everyone's posts and am really taking them to heart. I did want to add another follow on point -

    My desire is not to disquise or hide the fridge. I agree it is quite obviously a kitchen and I am not trying to pretend it isn't. I guess what I really desire is not to see a large hunk of stainless steel in corner, between the large kitchen window and the vistas of an octagon room looking back over into field and woods. Between natural materials in a very rustic family room with used brick floor, rough barn wood walls and wood beams and the natural, muted colors we intended to use in kitchen and attached "sun roon" the shiney stainless steel just feels out of place.
    I say that fully realizing the contradiction with my large 48" range... but that will be only low (not as much at an eye-catching level) with a cabinet or natural substance hood hiding the stainless steel and will be viewed more from the side view or blocked by a large island...
    I am not trying to be defensive in any way - my fear is being a contractiction that doesn't quite pull of the look and is why I am asking. I just wanted to clarify, that the primary purpose isn't too hide - just to avoid staring at stainless steel. I'd almost, not quite, prefer black appliance - the new cream perimeter precludes that, but in the current cherry cabinet kitchen it works for me.
    Thanks again - keep the comments coming! Appreciate it!

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I appreciate Hollysprings's point of view, and it's an important one to consider, but I have to disagree about the go big or go home. That's personal taste. There's a difference between hiding the fridge and decorating it. Most fridges don't come in brown currently. From the description, I believe the cabinets are going to be brown. Stainless is going to be a big blob of shiny gray. If you like that look, that's fine. If not, panels might be just the thing.

    I don't, personally, care for raised panel cabinets in a kitchen. They look busy to me, and a bother to clean. Other people love them--and it's not like they're bad, just not to my taste. To me, however, a well done installation of raised panel doors on a fridge in a raised panel kitchen looks less busy than a jump-shift to stainless.

    Both versions are fine, and you will find people who will advocate for both. Which you choose should entirely be about what you want it to look like and how well your people can execute it.

    That said, if you want flush integrated, both Liebherr and Thermador have good reputations. I think the panel installation on the Thermador is easier from what I've heard, but experienced pros should be able to do either. I know nothing about the Dacor. If you go for flush integrated make sure you read all of the installation instructions very carefully before you order your cabinetry. I think the Thermador, for instance, assumes a 25" cabinet depth. A lot of flush integrated do.

    Know also, that a built-in doesn't stick out as far as a counter depth. I don't know what implications that has for how much they hold, especially because a lot of that depends on the particular interior architecture of each unit. If there are must haves, like holding your favorite platter, or holding a gallon jug in the door, you should check those things out and choose accordingly.

  • _sophiewheeler
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Decorating" your fridge would be to paint a mural on it. Or decopauge it. Or copper foil it. I've seen all three done, and the results were pretty cool. Using cabinet panels isn't what I'd call "decorating". Maybe, if you are unimaginative you could call wood panels "decoration", but it's really just a poor attempt to disguise what can't be disguised. If you were to create faux marquetry panels from various veneers or a bamboo tiki fridge panel, now that would be decoration!

  • _sophiewheeler
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    BTW, if you don't like the look of a "normal" fridge in your design, perhaps it's located in the wrong spot. Maybe move it to the butler's pantry adjacent to the kitchen instead and keep the flow more open. There's more than one "right" layout for your kitchen, so maybe explore that as well.

  • friedajune
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    KKPerry - your second post gave a lot more helpful information about what you are looking for than your first post. Given what you've written in your second post, I think you may need to consider spending the extra dollars on a flush integrated fridge. I think Honeychurch's Thermador set-up would meet the objective you are going for. Miele, Liebherr and Subzero also make integrated fridges, but I believe only Liebherr and Thermador make french door integrated fridges.

    Be careful when shopping about the "lingo". An "integrated" fridge is different from a "built-in". E.g. the Subzero with the grill on top is "built-in", not integrated. It does not disappear into the rest of the cabinetry. A built-in also may or may not be flush with the cabinetry - it depends on the model and it depends on the cabinetry panels you add. On the other hand, an "integrated" fridge, like Honeychurch's, can be completely disguised, will be flush, will not show exterior hinges, grill or toekick. But you will have to pay a lot. I believe Honeychurch's Thermador costs close to $7000, the Liebherr about $5800. They also don't have a lot of cubic feet; you may need a supplemental fridge/freezer in the garage or basement.

    One of my favorite completely integrated fridges is a photo of a kitchen Mick Di Giulio designed, which I will link. Can you believe those mirrored and mullioned doors? (Yes, the kitchen is very high-end.)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen by Mick Di Giulio

  • dodge59
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Pillog about your post about Hollysprings posts.
    I think you covered everything regarding her "All or Nothing"
    post!!!..

    I had/have no desire to hide my JA 48" Built in Fridge.
    Its panels matches all the other cabinets in our kitchen and we love the look, not to mention how easy it is to keep clean.

    As good & as easy to keep looking clean and new as Induction,
    come to think of it , I wipe those wood panels down a lot less often than I wipe the induction cooktop down.

    As I mentioned in other posts, just about all of here have different tastes, a good thing, and describing some folks tastes here to "Teen age Girls's "Issues" doesn't do any of us any "favors"--- Ya thinks?

    Even after 5 years, wife still comments (almost daily), how much She loves our kitchen, (It Us!!!!)!!!
    We wouldn't change a thing-- No Adolescent problem Here!!

    Gary

  • KKPerry
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dodge 59 - do you have any pictures of your kitchen/ fridge? Thanks for the supportive comments and I hope to comment, daily, how much I love our finished kitchen for many many years - now if we can only get started! ;)

  • dodge59
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK, KKPerry.

    Here are a couple pics.
    We didn't want a "Ton" of stainless steel showing in the area where the fridge is now, or black or white paint, as I mentioned, that is "Our Preference" those that like Stainless, colors, nothing wrong with that.

    Our Fridge would not be considered "Fully Integrated" as you can see outline of the fridge's SS Frame, That doesn't bother us in the least--we like the look and as I mentioned, our goal was not to hide the fridge, We like the wood, as you can see, it matches the adjacent cabinets, even the curves in the paneling.

    Our Cabinet maker made the panels for the fridge.

    Hope this helps, and good luck with yours

    Teenie (alias Gary & 59 Dodge.

  • sprtphntc7a
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i have the leibherr 36" french door fully integrated and love it. had no issues with the panels on installation and in IMHO, they came out beautifully.

    i understand what you are saying about the SS, and that was the reason we went with a paneled frig and dishwasher. i am not a fan of SS appliances, did not want to see all that SS most of all and also did not want to clean it.

    we wanted a "warmer" look and to me SS is "cold" and industrial look. just my opinion and mine only..

    go with what You want, you have to look at every single day....

    good luck!!!

  • live_wire_oak
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    While a paneled in place fridge is certainly common enough, it's not something you really see in too many of the design mags when looking over the latest and greatest kitchen to "ooohhh" over. Current kitchen design for upper end kitchens is to have the fridge fully integrated, ala Mick DeGulio, or to have the "function as form" look of the stainless or glass door refrigerator where the fridge itself is considered "art that functions" in the space.

    I'm with your KD on this design aesthetic issue if you are planning as upper end of a kitchen as it sounds. I personally do not care for "built in" fridges, as I think they look "half done". That is my opinion only, and I would never tell it to anyone who has already has that in their own home (close your eyes Gary) but it is relevant to someone in the choosing stage. It does not affect one whit the ability of your paneled fridge to do it's actual job of keeping your food cold in your kitchen.

    I would rather see a shiny hunk of stainless "plain jane" 2K fridge in someone's space than to see bits of stainless and rubber here and there. A normal free standing unapologetic fridge is what most of the country has and it works quite well and has no need to hang it's head in shame because you can tell it's a fridge.

    So, I'd vote for using a plain old regular fridge and save some money for other features in your kitchen. Or, if the big hunk of stainless doesn't work as industrial art to you, go the fully integrated route. If the issue is more about the cost of a fully integrated fridge over a regular fridge, then you may not have thought through the whole scenario enough. Paneled fridges of any variety add the paneling which is about 1-3K (plus installation costs which can quickly approach 1K by themselves) to the bill above just the cost of the fridge.

    You only do a kitchen remodel maybe once or twice in your life. Who are you doing it for? What do YOU like? Do you feel pushed into choosing built ins and other high end choices? Are you at home with those items, or are you doing it because the neighborhood expects it? Figure out your motivations for your choices, and it will help you to narrow down exactly what your underlying design aesthetic actually IS vs. what you or others think it should be. Because you can have a warm functional kitchen at pretty much any budget. It's more about the space planning and the people in that space than the fixture choices. That's what makes a kitchen memorable and fun to be in!

    So, to echo Holly's comment about the layout along with mine above, be very sure that your layout functions for you in your space. Post it on the Kitchen Forum for critique and help with positioning that fridge if need be. The work triangle is outmoded, and often the best space for the cold storage is close to the dry goods storage aka pantry. It's one possibility to explore if you don't want the expense of a integrated fridge but don't like the look of a regular one. Put it out of your "beauty view" sightline!

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Gary's picture is a very helpful illustration. It shows raised panels that do not have that puffy look that I warned against.

    I totally disagree with LWO, which is very rare. It is a designer's job, and LWO is a professional designer as is the KD you're working with, to say these things, but it doesn't sound to me at all like you're planning an "upper end kitchen". It sounds like a very nice kitchen, but more value oriented than high end.

    I definitely agree with your reasoning that the choice of fridge should be based on your ideas of form and function. You like your choice of fridge. Choosing a different one to suit what the Jones are doing in the magazines or what designers think is the latest hot look will take away from the rational choice you've made for yourself. I went into my own kitchen remodel assuming I was getting SubZero, and preferring integrated, and still looked at freestanding fridges like the KA to compare them and see if I liked them better. I didn't. I liked Miele better, so went that. You sound like you've done enough shopping and know what you want. If the look of what you want bothered you, you would have worded your post differently.

    There is nothing wrong with having the edge of the fridge showing like Gary has--it's a very nice kitchen, but not designery and it wouldn't change the look if the fridge were integrated.

    There's nothing wrong with having the freestanding panelled fridge you're talking about, and putting nicely made panels on it, and having the sides show a little in the opening with a couple inches of air space. It's not built-in, but it's decorated to match the kitchen. It's not a high end, designery look, but it's perfectly fine.

    I find the comments otherwise to show more about the snobbery of the people writing them than the look itself. Matching things are out, right now. That's a big part of the problem. The people who want to be "in" decide that it's wrong to match if you can't make the match indistinguishable. It therefore must be integrated. Some people really make the match perfect, with faux drawer fronts and all so that you really can't tell where the fridge is. People aren't advocating that. I think if you can tell by the size and shape of the panels, it doesn't matter whether it's integrated, built-in but frame showing, or free-standing. It's still a fridge, and a fridge is a fridge, and what you want it to look like in it's fridgeness is entirely up to you.

    I also disagree about the death of the work triangle. I cook. I walk that triangle constantly. I have two fridges and two sinks, so there are different versions of the triangle which overlap, but I would never, ever, given a choice, remove the fridge from the main cooking area. People remodel their kitchens just to correct this problem. A big reason I planned a full remodel from the time I placed the offer to buy the house was the distance from the fridge to the stove. It was massively inconvenient even in an almost straight line. Moving the fridge out of the kitchen just so you won't have to look at it is something that people may do nowadays, but it is greatly impeding the function for cooking. People also buy vastly uncomfortable chairs because they look good, and then sit on the floor with pillows because they don't like sitting on the chairs. For some people looks is the most important thing of all. I've always admired the Duesenberg, one of the best and most beautiful cars ever made. They designed the works first, then designed the beautiful carriage to fit over them.

  • yalemichmom
    7 years ago

    It's 2017, and I'm having the same problem but am glad to read these various (past) opinions on SS vs Paneled; integrated vs built-in vs freestanding counter-depth fridges. I would be happy to just get a freestanding fridge in stainless steel if I could only fine one with no dents and doors that line up well. I cannot believe what I'm seeing on the showroom floors. The models look awful! I realize they take a beating, but these are NEW...certainly an appliance in my own home will get used daily, so it's bound to get scratched and possibly dented. Walking by a dented, stainless fridge each day would bug me to no end. That's one of the main reasons, in addition to the fingerprint issue, why I'd like a cabinet-faced refrigerator and dishwasher. I don't really care about "hiding" them, I just don't want to see dents, scratches, and smudges.

    Also, so many consumers complain their new SS fridges arrive with a dent right from the start, and they have a terrible time getting the door replaced from the manufacturer. Even if they do, the SS, new "Black Stainless," and slate-colored fridges dent and scratch easily, so who knows how long before a new dent occurs? I was honestly interested in the same KA, counter-depth, French Door or SxS, with Ice & Water through the door, but it's no longer made in a counter-depth size in a white color which I prefer over SS. I liked the KA in white because it had the stainless steel updated-looking handles as opposed to white handles, but what I want from KA is now only offered in a full-sized refrigerator.

    My in laws have the KA/FrenchD/Counter-depth appliance with the matching panels. I didn't care for it, as its sides are black and (my opinion) look awful sticking out with light cabinetry panels. I was surprised how much they showed despite it being a counter-depth model. I don't mind dodge59's paneled built-in fridge at all because at least the doors will not dent or fingerprint like SS doors will, potentially. I may now splurge on an integrated or built-in--either SS or paneled--for the more flush look and advantage of a taller appliance for more cubic feet of storage. The hunt continues. Didn't think it would be this hard to find a decent, reliable fridge that looks stylish, conserves space, but isn't stainless or a dark color. I think I'm the only one who still feels white appliances look nice and should still be offered more readily with bells and whistles. I know bare-bones versions are available.

  • homeshopp
    6 years ago

    yalemichmom What did you decide on? I'm in a similar boat. Thanks!

  • yalemichmom
    6 years ago

    Wow. I didn't realize I wrote such a long post, earlier. I'll keep this short(er)! Unfortunately, we had to put the kitchen reno on a BIG hold. Our hired contractor turned out to be a crook. He ripped up our old laundry off the kitchen and our senior college son's room upstairs (location of the new laundry). He lied to our town on the scope of work, had unlicensed workers doing plumbing, gas, electrical, etc. Had to get a lawyer to recover nearly $130 K (don't ask...we were very dumb to trust him so much). We got stuck paying for some of the "work," and later found out it was SO bad, it all had to be ripped out--including new copper pipes, drywall, support beams, etc. It was a mess. As a consequence, we hired Home Depot to finish the job (It's been a year since HD started, and they still aren't done with a 6 x 6 laundry room.) So, due to all of that, I still do not have a new kitchen (or bathrooms), but when I DO get back on track, I will most likely order a built-in Thermador fridge/freezer with a paneled front. I just don't care for so much stainless, and I want a shallow-depth fridge. Otherwise, I lose food in the back. A regular, counter-depth fridge could work, but I've yet to see one I really like. In the meantime, I need to learn how to pick trustworthy and competent designers and builders/remodelers.