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Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

Posted by taylor8810 (My Page) on
Sat, Oct 15, 11 at 1:05

Replacing the 747 jet aircraft in my kitchen. I am debating between the:

Miele Classic G 4205 SC aprox. $1299
and
Bosch SHE 7ER 55 UC aprox. $1299

I "think" they are the least expensive models with the cutlery tray, which I want, correct me if there are other models with the tray. I have ruled out the KitchenAid(about the same price with the cutlery tray) as I do not want the heat element. I know there are issues with condensation drying but always turn off the heated dry and it's just fine with me, and it's an energy and water issue. These two brands seem to generate the most positive comments overall, and I have friends and family that own these brands with success.

So far in searching in the Houston area I cannot find any models, Bosch or Miele, with the cutlery trays at any of the big box stores and can't, for the Miele find any independent stores that are not part of a kitchen remodel, complete with cabinets and appliances. I have checked the Miele and Bosch websites and have called or visited the stores listed.

So are those reasonable prices? I haven't bought a new dishwasher in 20 years, and just moved and the 12 yr. old builder special is that awful in so many ways. Also, if you know Houston have I missed a store? Any other suggestions. And yes I want the tray, it allows me to eliminate the cutlery basket and that is the deal breaker for me. Any suggestions and advice is greatfully appreciated, I have been lurking and you have so helped in my search.

Thanks


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

The Bosch model you are looking at is basically top of the line series (800 series).

Miele you have to spend a bit more to get higher up.

I personally ordered a bosch solely because of good pricing and a rebate. Miele has fixed pricing and little to no discounts or rebates.

It would boil down to what you can be happy with. From all my research i have gathered most appliances are designed to run for 10 yrs where miele claims 20 yrs.

Miele has a big following here and im not fully sold on them so you will have to decide based on what's important to you.

p.s good decision on the KA.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I found that Bosch for $880.90 with free shipping after rebate valid til the end of the month.

That Bosch has a built-in water softner and SS door panel.

The Miele Classic for $1249 has neither, at least in my area. The SS door panel is an extra $100.

Houston averages water hardness of 8.5 gpg but varies greatly.If your water is 4 gpg or higher it would benefit from the water softner and more so the harder the water.

If you have hard water I would strongly consider the Miele Dimension.I do buy into Miele's superior long term durability but it does come at a price. If the Dimension is simply not in the budget then the Bosch is a good alternative.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bosch SHE7ER55UC


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

Thanks for the input. Prices are the same which makes the decision harder. I am not worried about hard water, ours is very high, we had a whole house water softener installed and separate iron and manganese filter added. I worry some about ordering online and getting a Bosch or Miele installer, so as to keep the warranty intact. So if anyone has pros or cons on either of these machines, or knows of a Bosch or Miele with the cutlery tray that is less expensive please let me know.. Thanks


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

Anybody have either of these dishwashers and willing to share experiences here? I don't care about where the controls are located, I just want, need, the cutlery tray. All the extra bells and whistles are just that, oh the easy adjustable 2nd rack is a good thing as I have weak hands.I am shopping features first, and function, before I even looked at price, was shocked that KA was so expensive, that I started looking at the brands that are raved about on this board, namely the Bosch and Miele. Most of the sales people have been informed and helpful, but I am looking for experience in using these machines and brands. Or do I ennie meenie miney mo?


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I have the Bosch SHE68E15UC with the cutlery rack and adjustable 2nd rack. I have had it for about a year now and still love it. It cleans beautifully and is extremely quiet.
If you have stores near you that have both models I would suggest taking some plates/bowls that you would normally load into the dishwasher and make sure they fit into the racks. Others on this forum have had issues with plate sizes and how they fit into the european crafted machines. I had no issues with my Pfaltzgraff plates and bowls.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I worry some about ordering online and getting a Bosch or Miele installer, so as to keep the warranty intact.

There is no such thing as a "Bosch" installer.Open up the phone book to appliance service and repair and hire someone that has been in business for a while.

I bought my Bosch washer online from a company in New Jersey and had it shipped to Los Angeles.Installed myself,got my rebate direct from Bosch,registered my warranty directly with Bosch online,and everything is just fine.

Miele has the same prices everywhere in your region.No point in going out of region because the price variation is tiny.Having Miele do your install doubles the warranty.

If,however,you insist on buying local and price is not a consideration and water quality is off the table due to a very good whole house filtration system then Miele is the obvious choice.

Bosch and Miele are very similar in design.The biggest operational differance is how the water softner works. But that is irrelevant to you.As you can see in the specification sheets this Bosch is 42 db while Miele Classic is 49 db.Miele has a sensor to adjust water level and program duration while Bosch has the half-load option. But the biggest differce IMO is product quality, customer service,and Miele's in-house techs(this is the case in most major metro areas). Given the same price,I would get the Miele.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I can't comment on that specific Miele model. Just to say I had a previous generation Optima (with Express, a fave cycle) for 1-1/2 years until we moved this summer to our house where I have an 8 y.o. Miele Excella. We also have a whole-house softener (19 grains hardness water) in the house. The Miele will require a call to tech support after installation to adjust for the whole house water softener. Otherwise, I've not had a service call on either machine.

Good luck with your choice.


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Sensor Adjustment

Rococogurl,

The Miele Classic has no hard water sensor because it does not have a water softner. So I don't think there is anything to adjust.If he got Dimension or above an adjustment would be required.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

rococoguri, so after the Miele is installed, I or the installer have to call tech about the softener? Glad to know you are satisfied.

deeageaux, Do you think there is a big difference between 42 and 49 decibles, is the Bosch really that much more quiet? I didn't realize that Miele has a water/dirt sensor, I am assuming to allow the machine to adjust water and time. Is this correct? And while price is a consideration, I think these are awfully $$$$, I do like to support the local economy. So I can use any installer with Bosch and not void the warranty, and Miele doubles the warranty is you use a Miele installer, that's something to think about. Good insight thanks.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

boschboy, Good suggestion, I will take in plates, etc. don't know why I didn't think of that. Thanks


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

Taylor,

Like I posted before there is no hard water sensor in the Miele Classic so there is nothing to adjust.If you got Dimension,Crystal,or Diamond an adjustment would be required.

A builder grade DW is about 60db. I would classify 49db as quiet and 42db as near silent. But every ear and brain is it's own world.

You are correct about Miele's turbidity sensor,just to clarify the more expensive Mieles have more sophisticated turbidity sensors that allow a "sensor wash" program. The Classic does not have a "sensor wash" program.

You can use any intaller with Bosch and not void the warranty.

As long as you buy from an authorized Miele dealer, you can use anyone you want to install without voiding the one year warranty but if you use a Miele tech the warranty is extended to 2 years.

I like to support the local economy but like supporting my own economy most:)


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

deeageaux,
I called the only Miele dealer(Houston area) I could find that will sell an individual machine, other places would order appliances as part of the cabinet design and purchase. He confirmed that they were certified installer and that yes it did extend the warranty to 2 years. Thanks for the heads up on that. I did call the other place listed on Miele's website. They only sell the appliances when spec'd for the new kitchen, that was explained over and over, at length, and I got the message. They did not want to sell me an appliance. Here I am, cash in hand. I don't understand it at all. She also kept inferring how expensive they were and could I afford it. I haven't found a store to sell me the Bosch in the model I want, the big box stores aren't allowed to carry the upper end of the line. Not sure what to do next. Getting out the phone book again tomorrow.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

For clarification : you can use any installer you'd like to install a Miele DW without voiding the warranty.

Miele provides an incentive for you to use a certified installer which presumably costs more, but not always. The incentive is a year's warranty ADDED to the included warranty.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

Turbidity sensors are nearly ubiquitous these HE days.

Agree with taylor8810 about quietness evaluation.

"These two brands seem to generate the most positive comments overall..."

Apparently your forum-reading is different from mine. In my view, both of these brands have come under frequent assault on these forums -- as have all the others.

You have the advantage of soft water. You may expect anything you buy to perform wonderfully and last a long time. Dishwashers are simple machines. By all means get what you want but no need to get crazy. It appears to me that everything that's important to you is in the units you're considering.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

If you are familiar with the greater Houston area, I would appreciate the names of stores that carry Bosch and/or Miele. I know the big box stores do not carry the dishwasher lines with the cutlery trays, they have access the dishwasher that are less expensive, though still plenty of $$$.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

Hey Taylor,

If you have no good luck in Houston (which seems odd, there should be lots of choices?) as far as actually purchasing the unit, try Capital Distributing in Dallas.

I bought a Miele from them after doing lots of research. I bought it over the phone and had the unit freighted to me. Their prices were very competitive and their service was good.

~MM


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

mastiffmom_85

Thank you. Apparently the big box stores are not allowed by Bosch or Miele to sell particular models, the upper end, which are the models with the cutlery tray that I want. I can get the Bosch 300,500, 800 series, but not the 800 Plus. That's so the independent dealers have an exclusive. And I can't find Miele other that 2 stores, and one Kuhle Linscomb told me they will not sell an individual appliance, they sell when they are designing and selling the entire kitchen, cabinets, fixtures, floors, appliances. The only other store is Kiva, which will sell to me, the Miele, maybe the Bosch, but they only sell at msrp. I was hoping for a little leeway. Both models cost the same. I will call Capital Dist. in Dallas on Monday. Thanks again.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

From my experience buying a Miele dishwasher last year, there are 3 prices in the stores Miele price list. I'm not sure what each column is called, but all the stores in my area sells from the lowest-price column. I've got the Diamante Plus, which is equal to the new Crystal G5105SC. You might want to check on the price of it, since it would have the water softener, which is nice if you don't have a whole-home unit. If you do (or plan) to get a whole-home water softener, then you could save a few bucks and get the Classic G4205SC.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I can't help on the Houston angle, but I wanted to mention a few things. When I bought my closeout Miele Diamante Plus in August, the dealer said the "Miele installer" double warranty was a thing of the past. So I would check on that before making it a big part of your decision. I didn't care because I used an Amex card to buy, which doubles the warranty anyway.

We installed the Miele ourselves, and it couldn't have been easier. I did need to get an electrical outlet added under my sink, as my old DW was hardwired, but that seemed like a good thing for many reasons.

I chose the Miele with help from this forum. I was enchanted by the cutlery tray, and I do love it in real life. There's something so satisfying about imposing order on one's life by laying each utensil in its special spot on the tray (and I know I can abandon such compulsivity if I get bored with the orderly routine :).

It is so quiet that I really can't believe it will actually clean the dishes. Yet it does! Very well - much better than any DW I've owned.

I was worried about the drying potential, and it dries better than any DW I've owned.

I read that Bosch DW's are inflexible in their loading configurations, which helped me go toward Miele. There are a couple things I'm still puzzling over with the Miele, such as how to wash tall skinny things like cookie sheets. But I am confident I'll figure it out, and it does hold a ton, given the extra space on the bottom rack.

I paid just under $1200 for mine, which has 6 wash cycles and a prefinished stainless front. I don't know how that compares to the Classic you're looking at, but I did get a really good deal by waiting til the model was closed out. You don't have that option, so your price sounds pretty reasonable to me. If you already like the layout and features, I think Miele would be a good choice.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

Wondering if Miele customer service can find you a dealer.

kmcg - I was cookie sheets and roasting pans on the bottom rack of my Excella, tilted enough to clear the wash arm.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

If you feel comfortable about buying online you could save over $300 with rebate on the Bosch dishwasher.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

My old dishwasher is still doing its job, but I would go for a Bosch 800 plus one if I needed one right now. I went checking after reading your original post and found that for about the same price you quoted for the SHE7, you can get the SHE8 which got better review at the one site where I could find them (www.retrevo.com). It is even quieter rated at 39 dB. That is where I would go unless people start buying them and posting bad service or problems. From another thread here, these 800 plus machines are now being made in Germany to get away from problems and bad rep that Bosch got with their US made machines.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I am not 100% sure that the bad rep is on all US made machines. I think it is more with their really cheap lines they developed specifically to compete at big box stores. Overall I still find mostly positive reviews. I am a Miele guy, but currently have a US made Bosch and am very pleased with it (so far).


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

You can try Manna Distributors or Sara Appliance in Houston, not sure you'll find much lower.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

rococogurl - Thanks! I just figured out how to adjust the upper rack, so I now don't have the tall and skinny things problem :)


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I can't speak for the Bosch, but I bought a Miele Dimension Plus dishwasher a couple of weeks ago and can't be happier with it. It's extremely quiet and the two things I love about it are the cutlery drawer, and the fact that it pops open the door at the end of the cycle and a small fan comes on for a short while and the dishes are dried fast without a heater. It is so quiet, I have to look at it at times to tell that it is running. I installed this machine myself so I got a first hand look at the quality differences between the Kitchenaid vs the Miele. No comparison at all.

It replaced a highend Kichenaid which turned out to be a Whirlpool in disguise. It had a litany of problems of problems over the 10 years that I owned it which were all related to the cheap whirlpool components inside breaking. By the time I got rid of it, the cheap bearings in the motor had starting to give out so it was deafening when it ran.

In comparison, I bought a Miele washing machine around the same time as the Kitchenaid. It has washed a lot of clothes since then, in fact taken everything that I have thrown at it, without any issues at all. At the time I cringed at the cost of the Miele washer vs the rest, but now, more than a decade later, and compared to the worthless Kitchenaid, I am glad I went for it. This is why I got the Miele Dishwasher.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I purchased 2 Bosch 800+ units from plessers.com they arrived with no problem. They gave me a deal too.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I live in Houston and trying to buy a Miele dishwasher. Taylor8810, did you end up getting a dishwasher and if so, who did you get it from? I just moved here a year ago and can't believe there are no high end appliance stores in a city this size! And if they're here, they're sure not easy to locate. Any advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

Love my Miele DW. Love the cutlery tray (you either love it or hate it)
I put everything in the DW including my crystal and china without a problem. I figure it is safer than having me wash it.
I have the La Perla model and it pops open at the end to allow steam to escape to enhance drying.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

We have had our miele dishwasher for 10 years now, and it is still going strong with no issues. My sister has a Bosch that is now about 5 years old and she has had no issues with it. Time will tell, but we have been very happy with every Miele appliance we have purchased (now 4 items in kitchen and laundry).


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I can't comment on the Bosch unit as I have not owned it. However, I have owned our Miele dishwasher about 7 or 8 years and I still love it. First, i really like the way you load cutlery in the top tray. I consider that to be pure design genius. Second, no heating element in the bottom, instead it circulates warm air so no fear of melting some object to close to the heating element. Third the built in water softener is a real plus if your water is not he hard side. Even on the economy cycle it really cleans everything very well. My unit is model Miele G892SC. It is also very quiet.

What is there that I don't like: Only one thing. The top trim piece on the door is painted plastic made to look like the brushed stainless steel used everywhere else. The paint wears away from just using a sponge to wipe it off from time-to-time. Miele won't replace it under warranty so you have to purchase the piece. I have done so once but I saved the old one and I will just get some aluminum paint to fix it when the new one wears bad enough.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

No recent Miele stainless dishwashers has plastic on the exterior like that, so it really isnt a concern for someone looking to buy a new model. The lowed end units are available in white and black, but think those are painted metal and not plastic.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

From the Miele website the whole "auto open" feature at the end of the cycle has apparently moved to the top of the line Diamond ones.

The Dimension Plus line doesn't have that feature listed -- so does it exist is the question.

I thought it a very valid feature as things naturally dry better w/ the door open a bit at the end of the night. But, $2k+ for the top of the line model just seems like too much.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I am like 99.9% sure the Dimension Plus has the auto open feature. I contemplated this model and the diamond for this feature. The Miele site does not list the Dimension Plus on the chart. I do have a chart with that model somewhere. In the end I ended up getting the diamond. The dollar difference wasn't so great at that point when you factor in the extended warranty that is built into the Diamonds price vs purchasing the 5 yr on the dimension plus. Can't comment on the DW yet. Need to pick the damn granite already so I can start using it.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

Miele dealer here. The auto open (& close) is only available in the Diamond.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

Hi Miele dealer,

I have looked at the instruction manual of the dimension plus G 5705 and it has the drying plus feature which opens the door at the end of the program. The difference is that on the G 5705 it is a spring loaded mechanism whereas on the Diamond it is motorized.
Cheers


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I had a brand new Bosch for less than a year and sent that to the rental house.
I bought myself a relacement Miele.

What I did not like was the rack arrangment. My Bosch was not the cutlery tray type. The Bosch that I had held so much less than my 10 year old Asko that I really did not like it. I had the chance to 'off load it' the easy way... Leaky 25 yo DW in the rental house. Off the Bosch went. In came the Miele.

They both washed quite well and dried fine. There was no discernable difference in the washing, IMHO, if you are wondering about washing quality...


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

Love my auto open Miele - dries sooo much better!
LaPerla from about 2 years ago.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I have the Miele Dimension Plus and the door does open at the end of the cycle.

I also put my crystal and such in the dishwasher.

However, when something says "Not dishwasher safe" do not put it into the Miele! Miele is no joke. It will ruin delicate finishes. I ruined my meat tenderizer in my Miele in one wash even though I had been washing it in my GE for a year or so.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

Just bought the Bosch 800 series and hate it, compared to my Miele. I have the silverware tray and half the time the silver ware has scum on it and I rinse everything, never had this problem with the Miele. The only reason I bought the Bosch was because of installation issues in California, you are not allowed to install yourself or you loose your warranty, so that tacks on an extra 3 or 4 hundred dollars. I would gladly have paid the extra, if I knew this was going to be such a crappy dishwasher.


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RE: Bosch or Miele Dishwasher Decision

I bought the Miele G5775 SCSF and paid the overpriced fee to have Miele do the install directly. This was for a new house. Just moved in and tried to use the dishwasher for the very first time. It immediately went to a lockout state with an error message, and will not even run the for the very first load. Called Miele and was told it would be 10 days before they could get a tech to even look at it (and I'm hoping he won't have to wait to order parts). Needless to say I'm not at all pleased moving into a new house with a new top-line (supposedly "reliable") dishwasher, then having to hand-wash dishes. Miele's so-called "Concierge Service" is a joke. Don't know if Bosch is any better.


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