Return to the Appliances Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

Posted by lynn2006 (My Page) on
Tue, Oct 20, 09 at 1:00

Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

KitchenAid 41 Decibel No Food Disposer (so I must clean a filter but is very quiet and has all the features I like) KUDE70FVSS

OR

KitchenAid 51 Decibel with Food Disposer and self-cleaning that has all the features I like except for not having the little compartment to hold little things that sits in the front. Otherwise I could be happy with this dishwasher if it was only 5 decibels quieter. This one is $140 cheaper but maybe the quieter previous discussed model would enable me to do dishes even if I had a client in my home office (kitchen blocked by a wall from the office)at night or in the day time. I guess I want energy efficiency, a cutlery tray, and low decibels. Maybe 51 would be low enough and let me hear the TV in the family room that is next to the kitchen and let me work in my home office without hearing the dishwasher?

Is it difficult to clean the filter? Which model will last longer, one with a food disposal unit or one with a filter only?

Any comments from those that have one or the other since I have narrowed my search down to these two units and I need to make a decision ASAP so I can do dishes again and not have to wash everything by hand.


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

While I can't comment on the KitchenAid, I've had my first Bosch dishwasher (no disposer) since 2001, 2nd one since 2008. Very easy to clean the filters, but in practice I've not had to clean them often. Quite simply, bits that aren't water-soluable or are large are going to get stuck in the filter. If you're somewhat conscious about what you're putting in the dishwasher, chances are you'll rarely have to clean them.

I'm not sure of Kitchenaid's filter configuration but on both of my Bosch dws it's a simple beer-can sized filter than you just turn a 1/2 turn and it pops right out. Rinse in the sink, drop it back in and tighten with another 1/2 turn. Total time to rinse the filter out: about half a minute. Number of times I've cleaned filters: about 2 times a year.


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

Lynn, when I get back from the dentist, I'll read what my manual says about cleaning the filter. They give 3 different scenarios concerning how you preclean dishes. That determines how often you need to clean the filter. I think I'm supposed to clean it once a year, maybe twice. I scrap and rinse (not getting EVERYthing off).
Monica


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

Here is the chart concerning cleaning the filter. I do 1-3 loads a week, scrape and rinse. I should clean out the filter once a year. I think I can handle that :)


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

sean_m and monicakm, thank you both! It does not sound difficult to clean the filter and most likely I will be scraping dishes and doing a quick rinse but not getting everything off (now I have to scrub and make the dish spotless or it came out dirty from my 20 year Whirlpool Dishwasher), so cleaning the filter once or twice a year is something I can handle. Thanks monicakm for the chart.


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

In our last house, we had a Bosch in the kitchen and a top of the line Maytag with food disposer in the dining room buffet area. The Bosch was so quiet and the dishes got clean. The Maytag was so loud that it was bothersome in the next room (all literature bragged about its super quiet operation...their best), it was louder when the food grinder was running, and the dishes were less clean than in the Bosch. Less dry, too, even though it had heated dry. In this house, we have 2 Bosches...No problem to deal with the filter, even though we do 2 loads in each every day.


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

I honestly don't even pre-rinse. I just scrape large bits (meat, vegetable stems/etc) that I know won't dissolve in hot water and just toss them in the dishwasher. If I'm not running the dishwasher immediately I just hit Rinse-Hold. Most of the time when I check the filter I'm checking it for my sake. There usually isn't anything or much on it when I do check it.


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

Does anyone know if the KA dishwashers have a flow-through heater as do all of the European models? I have always understood the heater to be the compensating factor for not having a disposer on the European models. In other words, not having the higher temperature water, leaving out the disposer could be a problem?


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

Cleaning the dishwasher filter really only takes seconds - no need to worry.

Living in Germany, I have only used dishwashers with filters so am well-aware of how they function. Really, all you need to do is scrape left-overs off the dishes - no pre-rinsing required. Actually, I do rinse some items off before putting them in the dishwasher: beetroot, ketchup and the like because they can discolor other plastic items in the load; garlic, onions, fish etc. if I don't run a cycle immediately; and of course large quantities of gravy. But other than that I really only scrape.

During the wash cycle, enzymes in the detergent will dissolve food particles that collect in the filter. Every time the dishwasher drains the filter is flushed. And even if you find some stuff (like two or three peas) remaining in the filter it's not a big deal: the dishwasher is well-capable of cleaning even if the filter is not pristine. ;)

And by the way: dishwashers with food disposer also have filters in them - they are just not accessible and thus *can* clog up.

Check out my pictures and videos:

Here's me showing how to clean a Miele filter (on my granny's 18 inch Miele): Miele filter. And here's how I give our Bosch a deep-cleaning: Bosch Filter And finally, check out my slideshow on Photobucket: I washed a large load of extra heavily soiled pots and Pyrex dishes without any additional scraping to see how well the Miele detergent and our dishwasher would cope. All that was left were two slices of potato. Slideshow

HTH, Alex

@ deutschebiggie: KitchenAids have exposed heaters.


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

Whirlpool_trainee, I just visited your website and it is so interesting. I also watched how to clean a Bosch Filter and how to clean a Miele Filters which looks even easier to clean.

Amazing that you are in Germany and I am in the USA and we can correspond. I just love this forum so much.

Alex, what do you mean by your last sentence that KitchenAids have exposed heaters?


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

Yes, the Miele filter is easier to clean than the Bosch/Siemens one. It's basically one piece that you remove and rinse off.

The "exposed heater" is simply the heating element at the bottom of the tub, which you'll find in most American dishwashers.

Alex


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

Thank you Alex for this information. So you like Miele the best, the Bosch? Do you like KitchenAid? Does KitchenAid have a flow-through heater (question in one of the above posts has me curious).


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

KAid does not have flow through heater. The element in the bottom heats the water and dries the dishes the same as your old WPool does. In fact, it is my understanding the new KAid models with the "high effiency" wash system (the one you are getting) runs longer and the wash temps are lower than the other models. You should check your model# online and see if you can find the owners manual and see if it tells you anywhere what the target water temps are for the cycles. I think I read where it is only 120 degrees for the Normal cycle for the main wash and then 140 for the final rinse but I am not completely sure of this now.

Also I would recommend using a powder detergent instead of the gel like you are using in the Wpool.


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

sparky823, Is this a bad thing not having a flow through heater? I am just learning and know that I will be happier with any new dishwasher but I must make up my decision. I am pretty sure I will go with the KitchenAid model I am looking at but I have not yet bought it since I am still learning. I know I loved that Bosch had an approx. 30 minute cycle like my Whirlpool now does but was surprised the temperature was less than 110 degrees which would mean that I would be better off using the longer cycles.

I wonder how hot the 1 hour cycle gets the water on the KAid model I am looking at?

I will switch to a powder if it is better to do so.

sparky823, what dishwasher do you have? Thanks for sharing.


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

I actually like our Bosch more than the Miele. I think it washes and dries better and its faster.

Do I like KitchenAid? Well, the last time I used one was while visiting my aunt in Seattle. But that was one of those KitchenAids with chrome buttons, a chrome door handle and a tilted fascia could have been a Hobart. Actually, your KitchenAids, Kenmores and Whirlpools with High Efficiency wash system are strongly influenced by the European Whirlpool dishwashers: the pump and the filters used in them are the same as the ones used over here. Thats what makes them "High Efficiency" copying the European design.

Heres what a Euro KitchenAid looks like: click here

RE: temperatures. Just checked the latest Bosch manual and it says that the Quick Wash heats to 113F on the wash and 122F on the final rinse. The One Hour Wash on the KitchenAid does two unheated pre-washes, a wash with detergent (still unheated), one more rinse and a final rinse which heats for 15 minutes. With this cycle, it is absolutely necessary that you run the tap at the kitchen sink before running the dishwasher to purge the hot water pipe. The One Hour Wash cycle has no target temps like Boschs Quick Wash.

The other wash cycles on the KitchenAid have a target wash temperature of 105F and a final rinse temp of 140F. Pots and Pans heats the wash to 120F. Selecting Hi-Temp Scrub, ProScrub and SaniRinse will obviously raise the target temps.

Heres a link to a basic cycle overview (bottom of second page): click here

Alex


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

I actually like our Bosch more than the Miele. I think it washes and dries better and its faster.

Do I like KitchenAid? Well, the last time I used one was while visiting my aunt in Seattle. But that was one of those KitchenAids with chrome buttons, a chrome door handle and a tilted fascia could have been a Hobart. Actually, your KitchenAids, Kenmores and Whirlpools with High Efficiency wash system are strongly influenced by the European Whirlpool dishwashers: the pump and the filters used in them are the same as the ones used over here. Thats what makes them "High Efficiency" copying the European design.

Heres what a Euro KitchenAid looks like: click here

RE: temperatures. Just checked the latest Bosch manual and it says that the Quick Wash heats to 113F on the wash and 122F on the final rinse. The One Hour Wash on the KitchenAid does two unheated pre-washes, a wash with detergent (still unheated), one more rinse and a final rinse which heats for 15 minutes. With this cycle, it is absolutely necessary that you run the tap at the kitchen sink before running the dishwasher to purge the hot water pipe. The One Hour Wash cycle has no target temps like Boschs Quick Wash.

The other wash cycles on the KitchenAid have a target wash temperature of 105F and a final rinse temp of 140F. Pots and Pans heats the wash to 120F. Selecting Hi-Temp Scrub, ProScrub and SaniRinse will obviously raise the target temps.

Heres a link to a basic cycle overview (bottom of second page): click here

Alex


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

I've used the "1 hour" wash on my KA (KUDE60) a few times and was surprised that it cleaned just as well as the longer washes. I don't know anything about the temps it washed with but I do wonder why it takes over 2x as long with other cycles if the one hour cleans as well. The manual says that one hour wash uses slightly more energy than the normal wash. Guess it doesn't matter. I'm happy with every aspect of it :)
Monica


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

The biggest difference between a flow through heater and a ring heater is that every drop of water passes through the heater chamber of a flow through heater.

With a ring heater only the water that happens to fall on the heater is heated. This is why dishwashers with flow through heaters generally heat the water faster and hotter.


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

I have a Kenmore Elite. I was looking at Bosch and KAid when I bought this one but the lady at Sears told me that mine was made by KAid(they are all the same family KA,WP and KM). I liked the racks better because it seemed a little bigger than the KAid and a good bit bigger than the Bosch. Mine has been good until last year and I had a problem with bits all over everything but I eventually got that solved.
I believe that water temps are hotter with the louder KAid than with the HE KAid you are getting. I know mine heats to 130 or 140 wash depending on soil and then 140 for final rinse. If I use the Hi Temp Scrub the wash temp is 145 and rinse 140 then Sani Rinse is 160. If you use Pot/Pan it also heats the prewash water and adds another rinse if the Hi Temp Scrub is used. Mine is a few years old so it isn't as stingy with energy as your new one will be.
You will get hotter water temps with the Bosch but I am sure the KA cleans fine the way they have it programmed or everyone would be complaining.


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

"I had a problem with bits all over everything but I eventually got that solved. "

what caused that and what was the fix? Others have posted that happening in their dws and it might help them.


 o
sparky823 & Jakvis: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

Jakvis & sparky823, I also considered the Kenmore and if the KitchenAid model I am looking at would have not come down in price so that is is now less the price of the Kenmore at two stores by $100 and by $50 and the same price now at the third store and is quieter. I really liked the Kenmore a lot but the model I liked was on sale at a fixed price with no negotiations.

I would also like to know what caused the problems with the bits all over everything and what the fix was.

Jakvis, it does sound like the flow through heater is better but I just like the interior of this KitchenAid dishwasher model I am looking at for the more room, the little extra like the little netted back in the front for holding the water bottle tops that I clean to use on top of the smaller water bottles and the the way the bars were set up. I hope I am making the right decision.


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

I had been using Cascade with Dawn Gel from Sams and was told that was the trouble. I also found out that most time with that problem it is the chopper that is bad. I took mine apart and it was fine. Then a tech I asked told me it was probably the pump/motor. I decided to use the Sani Rinse one day to see if it would help get rid of the bits and after that I noticed it was better. I kept using that for a while(I normally never use sani)and the cleaning got better. I believe the gel had stopped the pump or a pipe up and that was the trouble and the hotter water and powder detergent helped clean it out. When washing it also seemed like it didn't have much pressure because the dishes were not always clean, and they had been before, and sometimes the gel was still in the cup(partly) and bits all over the door. It is OK for now--so I DO NOT use Cascade gel anymore. I know some people here have said they didn't like GE dishwashers but I had one for 16-17 years with no problems and it cleaned better and faster than this Kenmore. I would have gotten another GE when I bought this KM but at the time they didn't have SS tub GE in anything but the Monogram line and I didn't want that, although now the newer GE's may be junk. The one I had would flip over large plastic bowls on the top rack but this KM wouldn't do that even on the bottom when it was new!
Good Luck with the KAid. I bet you will love it.


 o
sparky823- her Food Disposer- With or Without?

Sparky823, thank you so much for sharing. I have one bottle of Electrasol Powder Gel left so at least I did not buy the Cascade this time. When I run out, I will buy powder it looks like or at least read the manual and find out what is recommended. I am sorry about your troubles but I am glad you shared. I enjoy your informative and caring posts.

I feel also that I will love my new KAid and plan to order it tomorrow.


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

I only remove/wash off the "beer can" part of the Bosch filter. Even at that, I've never had to resort to a scrub brush to clean it. Usually just a blast of hot water from the kitchen sprayer is all it takes. I've pulled the metal mesh cover off a few times but never found anything below it in need of cleaning so I just leave it alone.

It's been awhile since I've "played" with my dishwashers with the doors open, but I know I've seen downward-facing jets on the spray arms of some of them, assuming they exist to wash the mesh filter at the bottom.

re: difference between flow-through heater vs. exposed, the flow-through is far more preferable. The big advantage is that you're not putting a stove burner directly beneath your dishes, thus can put plastic items in the bottom rack. With the exposed heater, you've got a stove/oven heating element a few cm away from your dishes. No plastic/heat sensitive items on the bottom rack unless you want them melted. You also have better temperature control with the flow-through heaters as well.

Re: detergents, I've always used the Electrasol tablets. Very hard water and no issues thus far.


 o
sean_m - RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

Thanks sean_m for explaining the difference between flow-throught heaters vs. exposed.

I will try the Electrasol tablets. I have very hard water but I have a whole home water softener since without this, I was having the plumber over way too often to fix the toilets and sinks and then I had to replace pipes in my bathrooms and the sinks. The water softener had helped so much and I see a big difference also in the way my dishes come out of the dishwasher. But I will still try the tablets out.


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

thx for the reply sparky! I copied it out to a doc to put in my appliance folder in case that ever happens to me.


 o
Is there one with both grinder and flow through heat?

My OLD dishwasher had a grinder but was SUPER loud. My new [3-4 years old] dishwasher is super quiet but doesn't clean as well. It doesn't have a food grinder; I wanted one but sales guy talked me out [wanted a deal too!]....no idea if I have flow through heating...it has stainless tub which I like. Sometimes smells a little. Had hubby take it all apart and clean out a few times...

Thanks.

Trish


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

tntw, what as the brand of your old dishwasher versus your new dishwasher. Thanks for sharing.


 o
lynn...

can't remember old one...it was OLD...
new one is kitchenaid.

Trish


 o
RE: Dishwasher Food Disposer- With or Without?

tntw, thank you for letting me know that the Kitchenaid DW is quiet.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Appliances Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here