What makes me wary of buying high end appliances is so many reports of them breaking down. There are times that I will pay extra for better function or styling. But when I pay extra for the high end, I also expect it to be reliable and last at least 10 years. Based on reviews, that not always the case.

Warning - Another tired old car analogy...

I just went to Consumer Reports and selected a list of sedans, convertibles and sports cars, sorted by reliability. Of the 372 cars listed, the best ten had an average price of just under $20,000 and the worst ten had an average price of just over $40,000. The least reliable car was the $57k (as tested) Corvette, and the most reliable was the $22k 4-cylinder Fusion. Which is a better car? Depends on what you're looking for.

So obviously appliances aren't the only place where money doesn't necessarily buy reliability. Reliability is just one factor in a buying decision.

Well, as I'm contemplating a kitchen reno (FINALLY), I have to weigh in. I'm just a country tennesse cook.. I love to cook and I love to bake. However, I'm also married to a professional chef. He owns a resturant and is exec chef over 3 popular resturants (including the one he owns). I'm a lil bit country.... and he's a lil bit "yankee!" Ok he's from NYC and I'm TN.. he gets invited to them fancy award dinners...

I want a functional kitchen (in my eyes) and so does he...

Most of the "high end" stuff that we've viewed in home shows -- and trust me -- I've dragged him to many --- he does not like or sees a flaw in.

He wants gas and I can go with that. Though I've been electric throughout my uneducated life. He wants gas, but we can only get propane where we live -- that turns out to actually work. He says there is little to no difference. I trust that and have read similar.

I WANT ELECTRIC OVENS -- I'm the baker in this family, and sometimes do wedding cakes and specialty cakes. We did argue over that a bit, but I don't like his cakes. And more people ask for mine than his.

He likes Vulcan for gas cooking, but they don't do "domestic"..

So if i can't find a 36" to 42" Vulcan 6 burner cooktop or unit, then its a lesser brand in his eyes. We've decided on the 6 burner Miele 42" cooktop.

Originally I was going for the 48" whole units - Thermador, Wolf (6 burners + grill/gridle + 2 ovens). Well try to find that in Wolf or Vulcan -- I could not. DCS, Bluestar, Thermador and many others make them. Most pro chefs have only heard of Vulcan or Wolf or Viking, and other than that, they turn a deaf ear...

As for ovens, I decided on double Kitchenaid due to the ameneties it offers including: steam cooking, convection combined, self cleaning, and glide out racks. Others offer this too, but more than I can afford.

I honestly just can't wait to get rid of my 1968 avacado Hotpoint stuff.

I should clarify what I just posted, to pro chefs a Wolf or Viking is just so so.. they'd rather have Vulcan. To us "regular cooks" it sounds GREAT, but ask a pro chef as someone else posted above and they'd say "a what??"

My husband would rather have a reliable 1968 GE Hotpoint cooktop or oven than a crappy to midline "faux pro" for the rest of his natural life.

That's whole lot of typing without giving a single reason why he doen't like any of them.

I'll give you two reasons.

First, Vulcans use pilots which, guess what.. Makes the ignition nearly foolproof as long as the pilot light doesn't go out. Pilot ignition systems will last as long as the valves and pipes and typically much longer than the electronic ignitions on consumer ranges (high end or otherwise). *But* who would even consider a home range with a pilot light today? I probably would but in general very few people.

Second, power. Vulcan and other true commercial ranges have burners larger than 25k (closer to 30k or 35k usually) and that's simply not going to get UL approval for the home.

There are probably others but just these two make true pro ranges in the home very difficult if not impossible to achieve. Not to mention undesirable in some cases.

For me, I'll take the best I can get for the features that matter to me. But I also accept that what I'm looking for is not necessarily typical so I adapt and deal.

FYI...there are some post regarding a new stove as good as a Viking made by NXR. Do a search under them for more information. Still trying to get feedback from users.

After some time in the auto industry, it came to my attention that the more expensive cars often had more service calls than the cheap ones because, hey--you paid a bunch so that off-kilter button gets warranty service. And the loaner cars often provided by the Lincoln dealer but not the Ford makes it so you don't have to take off work for a silly repair.

Anyway, if you don't know WHAT repairs are being made, you can't compare. Compare engine failures to engine failures, but not number of warranty repairs. Compare gas leaks to gas leaks, exploded oven glass to oven glass, broken knobs to broken knobs.

Without specifics, reliability data are meaningless.

And I'll repeat myself--many of the more expensive appliances DO in fact DO more. Not just faster or hotter (but sometimes).

I have a mix. I get what I like (function as well as form) and price isn't a major concern (although once I pick something I do shop around).

Good point, fori. Is the detailed reliability data available for consumers to review?

I was just talking to someone that moved to US from Europe. She said Miele and Bosch are considered reliable mid-range appliance brands there. What about in US?

Before getting on the forums here I never even heard about brands you all discuss here. It seems there is a range of high end - or top of mid-range to high to beyond. It is somewhat confusing when you all discuss high end appliances without really defining which they are. A simple example is GE, which makes different lines - Hotpoint, GE, GE Profile, Monogram, and Cafe. Some people consider Monogram and Cafe high end appliances, but are they?

What defines a high end appliance? Is it simply price? Or features? Or commercial looks?

All about looks and egos...take an Amana, put Viking Professional on it, and you get another $2000 for the price. All this talk about the NXR, I hope it eats into the Viking market.

So far NXR sounds like a decent product and we all know Viking's questionable reputation, but I would never wish a Chinese company (or from any other country for that matter) to eat into and American company's market.

But if that "high end" appliance is designed well, works effectively, is aestetically pleasing and lasts forever you will love it. Finding "value" is what it's all about. Yes we are all tired of wasting money on junk, and it would be nice if well worn adages, "you get what you pay for" and "you reep what you sow" had lost their validity, but they haven't, the proverbial bar only keeps getting higher. Finding value in the market place has always been a big challenge, when we are successful it's satisfying, but when tools break prematurely one gets discouraged by wasting time and resources. If you want to hammer a nail, you would naturally prefer the best hammer you could find, not a rock. Not to say that a rock won't work...it will, but you might injure your hand using it. We all need good tools in order to be effective, problem solve and eat. And we also need to enjoy ourselves in the process of living life, as the song goes "...we're here for a good time, not a long time". Having a good tool for any job is fulfilling because it is efficient. Then there are other elements related to feeling something has value, (durability, reliability, design, style etc). As far as cooking is concerned we could probably revert to the stone age and cook over an open fire, keep our perishables in a hole in the ground, sleep in a tent, and survive, but typically we don't aspire to do that. Part of being alive is our desire to continually strive to make life better for ourselves and our children. It's a great gift to be able to both design, build and purchase appliances which improve the quality of our lives. When we were younger we were ignorant of such things, but sensed it. As we grew older we got better educated and grew tied of broken inefficient tools and longed for ones that worked well and lasted forever. Many years ago appliances seemed to be built to last a life time, (my parents still own a 1954 PHILCO "refridgerator" in their summer cabin that keeps food incredibly cold), sadly todays' units no longer seem as reliable. But that does not mean there aren't examples of design excellence out there. I'm pulling for BLUE STAR to keep making better and better examples of a "great stove" and offering them at fair prices, so companies like WOLF, and VIKING take notice and respond with better engineering, and more reliable stoves at more competitive prices. Competition is good and has made this country great. Yes it's frustrating sorting the "wheat from the chaff", but real value still exists, it's just more difficult to deduce as expensive no longer guaratees quality or value. The reality of the human condition is that old assumptions die and are replaced with new ones, enjoy it and take pleasure in sorting through the the latest kitchen appliances and finding the most robust and beautiful in your eyes, and enjoy them as good tools, regardless of cost.

Craig

There are only a couple items that are worth the extra money IMHO.

Having been in the restaurant business (chef/owner) for 40+ years I am fanatical about ranges Wolf is the one that does most of what I want and significantly better than the rest (Bluestar is catching up and is probably the only other high-end range worth paying for). A lot of the high-end gizmos are not needed on these ranges, duel fuel, self-cleaning, sealed burners, etc. are all marketing gimmicks that add unnecessary cost.

High end Dishwashers are a joke, they clean no better than most $ 400 dollar model, same goes for the refrigerators  they all keep food cold, unless you are going for a look, save you money.

I will pay a premium for a Kitchen Aid stand mixer and my Cuisinart food processor because of reliability, but most other items you can go cheaper on and save money.

More reason the NXR should not be shunned for being a new entry into the market at a cheap price. It uses Wolf burners, the dealer said the identical part number also. Besides the knobs and valves, what else is inside these things to warrant a 100% plus upcharge. Like most have said, there 20 year plus cheapie ranges are still going strong.

How many of the problems are because of higher expectations with high end appliances. If the ignitor goes out on a Viking stove I would want it repaired if it went out on the cheap builders special I would keep a lighter near by and not worry about fixing it.

I also wonder how much is not many techs know how to diagnose the problem and get it fixed the first time. I know in automotive most techs do not know how to diagnose a problem they just keep changing parts until it works. The pay is a lot better if you do routine maintenance so no one wants to do diagnostics. I hardly use warranties anymore. I got tired of all the down time. They would guess what part need to be replaced order it wait 2 weeks then find out that didn't fix it. I troubleshoot and repair it myself. Most of the time I fix it the first time.

I too am soooo OVER the high end appliances!

Lesson learned = forget the high end appliances, and all of the headaches that come with them, and go on a fabulous vacation instead!

We learned this all the hard way and it's a bitter pill to swallow. We scrimped, saved and sacrificed in order to pay for high-end appliances, and all of the down-to-the-studs work that goes with them, because we thought it would be worth it. Well, I can say from experience, it isn't worth it. The so called high-end appliances come with a boat-load of headaches. Here's a few of things we've discovered.

1. Life is too short to be agonizing over Miele vs Fill-in-the-Blank . . . we spent so much time researching the various brands and driving to showrooms for cooking demos and in the end, it really proved to be a big waste.

Our Miele Masterchef (ha!) double oven didn't work straight out of the box. The "certified installers" were awful (damaged our new cabinets and didn't even bother to clean up their mess or turn on the power before leaving) and Miele's "customer service" gave us the run around. When we finally managed to convince them that we were given a dud, it took forever to get the new oven, much less get it installed properly (they cancelled on us three times in a row - three days off work for nothing!). After all of that aggravation, the oven really doesn't even wow me.

With my old Hotpoint range that came with the house, I could follow the Libby's pumpkin pie recipe straight off the can and it turned out perfect every single time. Photograph perfect, delicious and absolutely no stress whatsoever. Every. Single Time. Roast turkey, perfect every time. Cookies, cakes, you name it - all perfect. Why did we get rid of it? I ask myself that everyday (okay, the stove had two non-working burners, but in retrospect, how often did we really need four burners, outside of a holiday?)

Now I'm wasting time trying to figure out which bake setting I'm suppose to use (convection? intensive? blah blah blah) and after three tries, I've yet to have a single pumpkin pie turn out. I've gotten burned crusts and undercooked filling, but never a perfect pie. Endless agonizing and research, driving all over creation and a hefty $5000 pricetag, and the stupid thing won't even produce a pumpkin pie that I'd be proud to serve to my guests! You tell me, was it worth it?

2. The more you pay for something, the higher your expectations become, and the more you stress out when things don't go as planned or promised.

I've spent a ridiculous amount of time on the phone with "customer service" and "tech support" and that's all time I could have spent just enjoying life.
We paid the money and they laughed all the way to the bank. Yes, the SubZero fridge is nice, but is the performance proportional to the price - not really. Was it worth the ridiculously long wait? No way! How long did the distributor keep us waiting while they had our money? Over six months! Six months of phone calls trying to find out when we were going to get the appliance we had already paid for! Again, is it really worth all the aggravation? Not in our experience.

3. Proper installation seems to be hard to come by and plays a huge roll in how well appliances operate. In our previous house, it took 12 appointments to get the Asko dishwasher installed and functioning properly - no joke! The installers (from the point of purchase) managed to flood our kitchen floor and burn out the pump/ motor. The second machine was installed by their "master technician" and it still took forever to get it right. In the end, I like the Asko (super quiet and uses very little water, electricity and soap), but it was clear that very few installers had experience with that brand, and we paid that price. Again, it just wasn't worth the aggravation.

If I had to do it over, I'd live with the not-so-fabulous kitchen and use the money for an extended vacation instead. Just my too cents. Sadly, if someone had warned us about all of this back when we were planning, we probably wouldn't have believed them. As I said, tough lesson to learn.

Well, hopefully your msg, along with that of other similar msgs,might "save" a few folks. Hopefully a couple of folks that are about to drop 13 grand + on a stove will see this.
Yep, I got two nice remodelled rooms now, for what they intend to drop, just on a stove, I'll kick back and watch my new 40" TV, just knowing the energy it uses, is just a "drop in the bucket", compared to what happens when they start up that new bonfire it their kitchens--now I'm not that green, but how do you justify running a stove that users more energy than a force air furnace and heats the whole house? Hmmmmm, maybe the stove will heat the whole house too?

Gary

midwestgal, I do understand your point of view.

We almost always get the better ($$) or best ($$$$) appliances. But I'm the one who either closely supervises the installation or does the whole job myself. I see lousy installation workmanship in so many friend's homes that I've become the guy to call to fix everything. My wife and I get a free dinner with friends, of course!

I often see problems with the appliance I'm installing as I study the hardware and wiring. Of course all my careful deliberations would cost a fortune were I an actual appliance serviceman.

Well, it could be worse, mrtimewise. Be glad ya don't know anything bout fixin TV's. Alto I was an Electronic Engineer, Field Service and a Business Owner, I did know how to fix TV's and had I got paid for everyone I fixed for the neighbors and friends, I could forego my SS Income (LOL)
Gary

mrtimewise, your neighbors are lucky to have you. I always read the installation manuals ahead of time so that I can keep on eye on installation, but sadly, many installers seem to think women are stupid. When our Asko was installed in our last house, I actually had to point out the "DO NOT UNDO THE HIGH LOOP" warning, printed in bold letters, on the front of the installation guide The installer actually tried to tell me that it didn't matter. When I told him that my warranty depended upon the high loop not being undone, he said I was overreacting. At that point, I actually called ASKO, who told him to put the high loop back. The guy actually refused! When he left, I called the store manager. This is the sort of stuff people are forced to put up with. It's just outrageous.

In this house, the Miele-certified installer (we had to use them if we wanted the one year extension on the warranty) actually left the house without even bothering to flip the circuit breaker back on. He didn't bother to go thru the installation checklist, didn't give us our paperwork, and didn't even bother to make sure the oven turned on. We had to run out of the house and stop him from driving away, just to get him to finish the installation correctly and to get our paperwork. This, from a "certified" installer.

Thankfully, we supervised the SubZero install and it came off without a hitch. That sucker is heavy and there's no way we'd be able to do that on our own.

You can be darn sure we'll be installing the rest of the appliances ourselves (cooktop, hood and dw), with the help of our carpenter (who is also a certified electrician).

Oh, and the Asko manual says that it can be hooked up to either the hot or cold water supply, but that cold is better. I told the GC to tell the plumbers that I wanted it hooked up to cold. Did they put in the extra cold water stub? Of course not, they put in the hot. And they want to charge us to come back out to fix it.

As I said, can't wait for a vacation!

I've lived with many an oven and purchased a few and nothing I ever had before came close to matching the quality of our Wolf convection wall oven. It was so worth it. We use convection bake, roast and broil almost exclusively, I do dishes and meals I had given up on ever getting right - it changed how we eat and live. Especially the broiler.

Fridge and freezer - well, I agree, they just need to do their job, but having separate ones that don't transfer flavors is very nice (one of ours is high end - love, no problems with it, the one service call we had was our own fault and SubZero still fixed it under warrantee). It outperforms any fridge we had before, as none of them would maintain a 34-35 degree temperature.

Dishwasher - loved ASKO, but it conked out on us after 7 years, liked the BOSCH, should have kept it, not sure their newer models are as good, have Fisher-Paykel (and most of you have probably read my long sob story on what a mistake that was).

Going for mid-range on the dishwasher - we'll have to see. The single most important feature to me right it avoiding service calls and not having to deal with some distant unresponsive service people if something does go wrong.

But reliability, nothing going wrong, clogging up or leaving bits of food on it - not needing service for 10 years - that would be MY idea of a great dishwasher at any price.

I'm pretty much in the group of "if it's cheap and needs a service call in the first three months I'm not nearly so upset as if it's very expensive and needs service immediately."

Re Mowers post (appliance repair guy) - High-end appliances are a little like high-end audio (my former area was pro & consumer audio - some of it high-end) and also like high-end automobiles. People who are into this are either - really wealthy and want only the best; people who are ultra aware of the marginal differences that high end stuff delivers and must have it; people who are sensitive to design and want a certain look - in the case of appliances, a professional look, with a heavy duty appearance, or maybe vintage appearance to match their decor and kitchen design. All want to make people aware of their knowledge and means. One doesn't really need a Ferrari or a Porsche given speed limits and traffic in the US, but these cars say something about your means, your taste and your knowledge of cars. My experience in audio is that people who are high end audiophiles are willing to put up with problems that those who are just buying something to have music at a party or upgrade their TV sound will not stand for. Some more advanced designs do, in fact, push the reliability limits of their parts in order to get performance. Also some of the smaller manufacturers cannot exercise the quality control over their sub suppliers that the big boys can, so are potentially vulnerable to bad parts from their vendors, etc. The problem with the large scale manufacturers is that they become commodities - using the same basic parts sets and similar designs to keep their costs competitive, but with little concern for longevity. Fixing a Viking will probably result in a lot of additional years of service. Fixing a lower cost appliance is often not done, because it is just as cost efficient (or maybe more efficient) to buy a new one. Another reason for the high cost of say high end ranges is material - look at the weight of a Viking or Wolf compared to a low end GE, etc. The weight, especially for stainless steel, is real material cost. It improves the product because the additional material helps maintain stable temperature (once it's warmed up) and adds to the longevity of the product. One shouldn't be buying a high-end appliance to dump it for a newer model in five years. It is a long-term purchase. If you don't have the means or the intention to stay with it long-term, don't get high-end stuff.

I agree with the folks differentiating between "high end" and "quality" -- a high end appliance might be qualitatively better and it might not.

I do my own reupholstery and have an older Viking Husqvarna sewing machine from 1966. At the time it was a top model, and it remains among the best machines ever made. Why? All metal parts. Great quality control. Great design that took things like repairing individual parts into account. Mechanical rather than electronic functions. The thing weighs over 40 pounds and I know I'll be bequeathing it to future generations.

I use a 1949 O'Keefe and Merritt gas range in my kitchen. It has an amazingly functional design (2 ovens plus warmer plus broiler), and I can adjust the burners to get the BTUs of any current "pro style" range out there, should I choose. It is all metal. Great quality control. Built so that individual parts can be replaced. It's 60 years old and going strong.

I was given a 'high end' shiny red KitchenAid mixer a few years back. Thing blew apart and was not reparable: plastic parts made under shoddy quality control. According to the mechanic, not worth opening up: metal replacement parts not available. High end name but low-end manufacture.

My fridge is a new German-made 'high end' Liebherr. It's got features I love: keeps produce fresher than any other I've had and uses far less energy in doing so. Keeps absolutely perfect temperature and has a built-in alarm for when I accidentally leave the door open. Made entirely without mercury so the fabrication is less dangerous to the environment. It's a hair under 2 years old and I don't expect to have any repairs needed for many years to come. If I do, I might have to re-think how high-quality it really is, and I do worry about the electronic components in this regard.

This is the goal: high-end manufacture. If that comes with a high-end name, whoo-hoo. If not, *shrug*. I'll still be using the appliance forever. :-)

I owned a Kitchen Aid DW that required a repair call every couple of months because the computer was bad. Every replacement was bad, too.

Next home, we bought a GE. This accumulated gunk at the bottom of the door. We replaced it with a Miele. I love the cutlery tray, but it does not dry as well as the GE. Big deal. My Whirlpool Duet dryer has had many replacement parts and needs to be repaired again. I'd replace it, but the color isn't made anymore and it wouldn't match the washer.

The rest - GE Profile fridge and wall ovens (1 is convection) are perfect. The GE Profile electric cooktop does not perform well and it will be replaced by an induction unit soon. (most likely a Miele) The outdoor Viking fridge has needed one repair. The Viking gas burners and gas grill are awesome and get used a lot in Florida.

One of the problems I had with my Miele DW installation is that the DO NOT install it this way pictures were more prominent than the correct way, so that the plumbing rough-in was done incorrectly twice, because they plumber liked to look at the pictures rather than read the instructions.

Sorry to disagree with the opening premise...and of course high price does not equate always to quality.
But amongst us siblings we have 5 homes and 3 remodels...and each mid price or lower end purchase has resulted in REPLACEMENT in less than 10 years. now i think a refrig cooktop and d/w should do better and last up to 15....EXamples: my old Subzero refrig of 1993 DOES keep cooked and produce items fresher than a newer KitchenAid, and Amana (each had to be replaced in less than 8 years... and we are buying thru so-called reputable suppliers/appliance specialists). My Asko D/w is wonderful and i relocated it to a new ofc when the ofc needed a kitchen, and replaced at home with a Bosch --- not only clean, but also eco and a FAST cycle, altho we dont use the dry cycle (we open and air dry)--- both running superbly.
I went for a 5 burner Thermador glass gas cooktop 15 yrs back and while it looks good, the burner performance isnt --- should have just spent more and gone for higher quality. In fairness, the Thermador 36" electric wall oven (below counter) has held up very well and the clean cycle is fantastic.
Our conclusion: research alot, ask around, test drive someone's but buy better and far less often. Its good for the planet too

I have always had low to midrange appliances until this kitchen remodel. This time we went with a very high end range (Lacanche) which required a large hood and exhaust fan, and a top of the line dishwasher (Miele Optima) and a built in french door refrigerator with custom panels (Liebherr). We purchased an average microwave that is behind a paneled door on the island. I love my appliances, even though I know midrange would have functioned just fine.

The range is not only amazing to cook on but is a work of art. It's beauty is commented on by all who come into the kitchen. It makes cooking fun! The Miele DW is the best dishwasher I have ever owned. Previously, I have had GE and a $600 KA. This DW is so quiet, I don't know it is on, which is a fantastic feature when you want to sit at the table and talk and you don't have to shout over the DW. The dishes are so sparkling clean and the three trays allow me to fit so much more in the DW. Do I use all the buttons? Not every day, but they come in handy on special occasions. I went with the built in refrigerator to be able to make my island longer and still have walking space. The Liebherr has had a lot of problems with the french doors, so I would probably choose a different built in, if I had to do it over again. BUT, I would choose a built in. I love both the look of it and the space I have.

I think everyone, especially in these days of overspending and bailouts, should only spend on their remodel what they can truly afford. There is no need to put yourself in debt to have the latest and greatest. They all work. However, that being said, if you can afford high end appliances, you will see a difference in quality and appearance. If it is in your budget, by all means, make your contribution to our economy and enjoy your new kitchen. And may we all continue to inspire and encourage oneanother with whatever our budgets are. I have seen some gorgeous 20K kitchens and some gorgeous 100K kitchens, and what I have always liked about GW is that they are all appreciated here.

I'm in need of new appliances, so I've been reading GW as I can to try to determine what is best -- based 80% on performance and reliability. My impression after months of reading has been that the higher end appliances are better in both these areas. Now I'm totally confused. I want to spend as little as possible, but I'm so sick of buying cheap crap that doesn't work. I bought a Whirlpool dryer based on Consumer Reports recommendations and it was junk, didn't work well at all, so I trashed it. Now, I have a new Miele washer and dryer, and they are wonderful. I'm not trying to impress anyone. No one I know ever even heard of Miele before. Actually, I think if my friends found out how much I paid for them, they'd think less of me. But I read on this forum repeatedly that they were great machines, reliable and that so many of the lower priced models most definitely were not. Same thing with my vacuum, same thing with my car. Within reason, I do think you get what you pay for. Of course, we should save more and not spend money we don't have. I'm able to spend more now to get better stuff, so I'm going to, and eliminate a lot of frustration I've experienced with cheap junk that promises but never delivers. Also, citing the fact that older appliances from many years gone by were cheap are super reliable isn't really relevant IMHO. Let's face it, in the "olden days," EVERYTHING was made better and meant to last. Now, it's quite the opposite -- high end or low end -- planned obsolescence is common. Seems I have a lot more reading to do. Sigh.

Craig/Mercy4u -- Just read your post and found it to hit the nail on the head. (hhahahahaha) I've been leaning toward the Bluestar, and would be interested to hear your opinion on a quality fridge.

My midwest values tell me to buy an appliance if it's only worth it. In this remodel we bought a Samsung FD ref and recessed it into the wall. I'm not going to pay $1000+ for counter depth ref with less space. We're going with KA dishwashers with panel and finally a Blue Star range since I love to cook. Yes, some people buy appliances to impress others but I think most people on this forum want the best appliance in their price range.

I looked at recessing a standard fridge when we remodeled our house and kitchen, but the existing load-bearing walls did not make it feasible and still keep recommended aisle widths.

I took a little consolation that I "saved" about $1600 using Liebherr's freestanding 36" for a flush cabinet install rather than their fully-integrated model, and it looks about 97% identical. Ironically the cheaper freestanding has way more stainless steel than the fully-integrated model, but those wrapped sides are completely hidden away behind cabinets.

I don't know if I should ask this question with a little hope, or tongue in cheek. But it's a genuine question.

I'm remodelling my kitchen - been here 10 yrs, will stay for at least another 5. I'd love to put in a 36" gas range, for use, and also to add a little long term sales appeal to the house.

There have been lots of posts here saying that high end ranges are less reliable and not worth the money - great! That sounds like I can avoid the cost of a Wolf/Bluestar etc and yet still get reliability and performance at a lower end price. And that's all I want - a good quality, dependable, 36" gas range, if it has an electric oven then even better. Paying $2000 or even $3000 (if it is really good) for a "lower" end product that is more reliable, instead of $6000 or more for a higher end product that is less reliable, sounds like a great idea.

So - can anyone suggest what "lower" end 36" gas range provides performance and reliability? If anyone has suggestions, I'd love to hear them. No sarcasm intended - I'm a beginner in this area and I'm sure there are lots of products out there that I haven't seen yet. Eveyone that has been saying high end stuff is a waste - this would be a great opportunity to pitch in and prove your point - I'd appreciate the comments and I'll give you a road test report 12 months after installation!

Err..I can post the first answer to my own question. I've found a Fratelli Onofri Evolution (FREV905S) dual fuel 36" stainless at AJ Madison for $2500. And a Royal Chiantishire model in colours for $3k that looks like it's straight out of a steampunk world. Also a 36" NXR for about $3500. Nothing in the $2k range or lower though. There seem to be lots of good (but very early) reports on the NXR. Don't know anything about the Fratelli Onofri. Yet.

Interesting thread - I rarely read appliances since my "new" kitchen has been done for about five years. This caught my eye though after using my appliances for this long. I remember spending an unbelievable amount of time researching everything including my appliances and splurged on some brands I'd never heard of before I started my remodel. I ended up with a Miele dishwasher, KA built-in fridge, Wolf cooktop, a meager 300 CFM Ventahood and Dacor double ovens. Some I really like - some are disappointing - they all look great though and function relatively well. Some I chose largely because of the appearance - I liked the look better than cheaper ones. I love having a built in fridge with cabinet panel and I like the hidden paneled dishwasher too. The dishwasher is very quiet but functionally it's a major problem with a whole house water softener since it's etched and ruined most of my glassware. All the recommendations to prevent that result in dishes that don't get clean so all in all not good. The fridge works great except for two occasions when a bottled beverage on the top shelf of the fridge froze and exploded - I think air doesn't flow quite right if the fridge is really full. The ovens are nice - never could figure out how to get the temperature probe to work - other than one time. Not sure if it's defective or if it's operator error. I use convection some but not all that much - glad I only got it in one oven. The hood works fine - I hate the noise and rarely use it - glad I did not spend the money to get a make up air system so I could have a bigger CFM fan. The 36" Wolf cooktop has been lovely and I use all 36 inches of it on a regular basis - no complaints on that. It doesn't have whopping big BTUs on every burner and I've never missed that.

In contrast we replaced the appliances at our weekend lake place a couple years ago. No major splurge there. We're using our old dishwasher from home - a $400 Maytag that's now about 15 years old. It's as loud as a jet plane and you're limited in what you can put on the lower rack but it gets everything clean and doesn't etch any glasses. Got a nice slide-in KA range - no convection - just two nice hefty grates on top - love the look and function of the grates. Got a pretty cheap Whirlpool microwave and SxS fridge - they do the job just fine. Our old fridge from home is out in the garage for summer overflow - it's still working like a champ too - now about fifteen years old. Neither the old DW or fridge have ever needed repair.

I wonder if my expensive "new appliances" will still be running 15 years from now - with or without repairs.

The thorn in my side with pro-line residential appliances is the price. It's as if they are pricing them without any regard to the cost to manufacture.
This morning I was looking at a Garland 24" commercial range for $950. 30K BTUs at each burner. To get a 24" Bluestar, I will have to pay $3K+. Can anyone tell me that there is $2K worth of insulation in a Bluestar to make it safe for the home? Is it all profit?
Wolf makes a 36" commercial range for about $1,800. Their residential 36" range is $5K+ ($6K?).

Well, of course they price them without regard to the cost of manufacture!! Product prices are set by what they can sell them for which will give them the biggest marginal return. That is, the most profit without having to up the production and distribution costs. That's basic economics.

Yes, most certainly. They are smart. There are many foolish trend followers, that will pay premiums to fit in to the lastest fashions. And manfacturers know this. Why does a Viking range cost $3500 and up? Oh it has nothing to do with the cost to build, it is all about what people are willing to pay for it. Society today is obsessed with trends like no other generation before it. The whole term "pro-look" is really pathetic when you think of it.

Yup - and if they're really good at marketing "snob appeal" and getting that thing going then the market ends up being willing to pay prices that result in huge margins. Look at Lexus - a brand invented for the US consumer who is willing to pay a premium price for a Toyota that's more of a status symbol.

The past years of economic prosperity (or acceptance of enormous amounts of debt) did alot to further this scenario.

I was looking at a Capital Precision stove to the tune of $3700 for a 30" 5 burner. It is gorgeous. However, at that price, THERE IS NO PREHEAT INDICATOR, no timer, the oven is much smaller than my current (Samsung) 30" etc. I think for these basic things the argument that "electronics break" is a lame justification. I so wanted this stove, but I feel like a sucker buying it when I want a simple preheat indicator! I'm a busy mom who cooks and has kids pulling at her. Watching the clock is a big inconvenience for me and buying a seperate egg timer seems ridiculous. I assume a lot of people don't mind sacrificing these things but if you do, I hope you let it be known to the salespeople or manufacturers because the line I'm given by salespeople is "no one expects bells and whistles on a high end stove." A preheat indicator and timer are considered "bells and whistles?" Please!

To be fair... The Capital range does have a red light which goes off when the oven is ready..... But your right no timer or audible alarm.

Are you sure? I asked the salesman about this and he said that was a light showing the oven was on.

Your "Salesman" is actually "an order taker" that does not know his products. In some circles he would also be called "a fool"

And be aware that pre-heat signals are pretty worthless for serious cooks. The mechanism measures the air which goes out the door the minute you open it. If you allow for a longer pre-heat time, the metal sides of the oven start to get hot enough to help keep the temp constant when the door is opened. It doesn't matter much for casseroles of items that take a long time, but it does for shorter baking times.

I just read on another post that the manufacturer recommends 4-5 cycles of lights to achieve a real preheat...what does that mean? they were discussing a Culinarian though, not the Precision. And, if it takes 4-5, why not just have the light go off when it is TRULY preheated (oven sides)?

All ovens gas or electric from a $500 Maytag to a $45k La Cornue should cycle on and off 3 times in order for the true interior temp to be reached. The only exception that i know of is the Bluestar Platinum Range. Hence the reason "Serious cooks" turn the oven on in plenty of time.

I have made better meals on my portable induction cooktop I am using as my remodel is being completed, than I had when I had my luxury appliance cooktop. This time I am not going for the top of the top priced appliances.

Sure, you can have great food and clean dishes from a cheap kitchen. Absolutely!

My built-in fridge needs replacing after 20+ years because I can’t find parts for it anymore. You know what’s breaking? The gasket. Searched high and low and the gasket is extinct.

The new fridges that would fit in the counter depth x 30” spot are all built-in or way too small. I can either redo the entire kitchen or spring for something that fits in the allotted space.

I did look at everything. Many built-ins certainly are built for giants. Ridiculously tall. But I opened a SubZero Classic and simply fell in love. Sometimes it just comes down to that. Not in debt, not going into debt, it’s just a personal choice.

And I have to wait a year to get it— the backlog is that long. And it better last 20 years! I will fix it so it does.

Meanwhile I have duct tape and my daughter’s dorm refrigerator as a backup 😂

PS in 20 years (it came with the house so a bit older than that), we spent $300 on an ice maker part and $20 on a replacement pane of glass someone broke when cleaning it. Whatever the original owners paid, it earned its keep.

@mrykbee

There are sources that provide made-to-fit gaskets. Three are linked below of many that can be found via online search.

CoolerGaskets - Custom-Made Gaskets

BareRefrigeration - Custom Gaskets

ColdSupply - Door Gaskets

We actually did look at those in our search a couple years ago. Also special ordered and had people out and nothing fit right. It’s a Northland (now Marvel) which isn’t made anymore. Two custom places I called refused to even talk to me because it’s residential and they only do commercial. They were kind of rude tbh. It’s time to bite the bullet rather than keep hobbling along.