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mom2sulu_gw

Help with choosing cooktop/rangetop

mom2sulu
9 years ago

Hi all,

I am building a new house and need some help with my kitchen appliances. As always the budget is beginning to grow quickly so I am looking for your help on whether the difference between these three items is enough to justify the prices.

My three considerations:

36" Viking cooktop $2000
36" Kitchen Aid rangetop $2300
36" Thermador rangetop$3000

I am coming from a Kitchen Aid electric smooth top so gas will be new to me. I do cook, but have no real culinary skills. :) I would like to improve though over the years. Aesthetically, I prefer the look of the rangetop, but any input on any of these choices would be helpful. Is there really a difference for just an ordinary cook?

Thanks so much!

Comments (23)

  • rcbob
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    mom2sulu,

    I would like to see some answers to your question as I'm also looking for a cooktop in your price range.

    Can I ask where you been looking to purchase your appliances locally or over the internet?

  • friedajune
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I cannot help you on brand choice, other than to say that out of the three you listed, I like the Thermador's star-shaped burners. But I wanted to list the differences between a cooktop and a rangetop. I prefer a rangetop, though each has its pros and cons:

    - there is more room under a cooktop for an additional drawer. A rangetop will use that space so you'll lose a drawer.

    - rangetop has knobs along the front; the cooktop has the knobs easily viewed on top. The downsides to the cooktop's knob placement are (a) they take up real estate on the cooking surface, meaning your burners are more crowded than they'd be with a rangetop, and (b) the cooktop knobs are quite close to the hot pots, particularly the style that has the knobs running down one side of the cooktop--you may not want to have to reach your arm along bubbling, splattering pots to adjust the knobs.

    - aesthetics: the cooktop is a sleeker look. The rangetop is heavier, more restaurant-professional look. Personal taste.

    - counter cutout and future replacement. A cooktop needs a custom counter cutout for it; a rangetop is just dropped in to the standard width of 30", 36", or 48". If you need to replace a cooktop in the future, you will have to find a new one with the same counter cutout as the old one. We have seen many posts on the Gardenweb about this problem. It's almost impossible to find a cooktop the same size several years later, even with the same brand, which means your choices are limited and you will have to bring in a granite fabricator to adjust the cutout. A rangetop on the other hand does not need a cutout, and can be switched out easily.

    - rangetops tend to cost more than cooktops.

  • mom2sulu
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    akchicago- Wow! Your post was greatly helpful to me. The reason I preferred the Viking to other cooktops was that the knobs were more out of the way. However, the countertop situation really makes me lean towards a range top. I don't really want to be limited by size for a replacement. Now I just need to decide whether to spend the money on the Thermador or be conservative with the Kitchen Aide. Thanks for taking to time to write out such a detailed comparison. You are awesome!

    Rcbob- Although I have looked at many online stores, I think we will just buy locally. We are getting a builder's discount which seems to make a lot of the prices comparable and also gives me a peace of kind regarding any unforeseen issues. Good luck with your search too! :)

  • rococogurl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One thing to look when comparing rangetops is the burner power and arrangement. I think that makes a difference. F.ex. usually a rangetop has 1 large burner. If so, is that in the center or the front? Left side or right? The burner with the most power usually handles larger pots for things like soup or spaghetti.

    Then look to see how low the lowest setting goes for simmer and how many simmer burners there are.

    And what's in between.

    Also, I would definitely want a rangetop with continuous grates -- grates that allow you to move pots around easily. I would not get a cooktop or rangetop with separate grates.

    Just a thought. I had a Bertazzoni range and the top was terrific. They make a 36" rangetop with the same excellent design. The burners are continuous and the front burner is quite powerful for a rangetop at this price point.

    The ignition is electric so I would try it out and be sure the clicking isn't an issue. I liked mine a lot and it's very good looking.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Bertazzoni

  • hvtech42
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Have you looked at Bluestar and Capital? Although I currently have induction, those are the best performing gas burners I've ever used.

  • mom2sulu
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Rococogurl: Thanks for the extra explanation. :) I am really taking a leap of faith for a gas range top and am so uneducated. I am trying to pick up bits of info here and there. Can you explain why the electric ignition would be a possible annoyance? Also, the Bertazzoni is certainly a good-looking range top and the price is right. One concern I have though is that I couldn't find any other reviews but yours. Do you know of any reviews so I can read up more and show my hubby?

    Hvtech42: Your suggestions look great but are really above my budget. We are trying to stay around or below $2500.

    Thanks to you both!

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mom2, the electic igniter on the Thermador is a known annoyance to some people, because it clicks off and on t keep the burners lit. I don't know if that applies to the Bertazzoni or not.

    By the way, I used to have a Viking cooktop, and it never would simmer properly (not even with a simmer plate, and not even after I had the burners calibrated).

  • hvtech42
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    >Hvtech42: Your suggestions look great but are really above my budget. We are trying to stay around or below $2500.

    Sorry, my bad on the range tops. But Bluestar has a 36 cooktop, RBCT365BSS, UMRP $2148. I would take this over all the range tops/cooktops mentioned thus far. My second choice would be Thermador. You should definitely be aware of the clicking for the automatic ignition on the XLO settings before you buy, but honestly most of the people who complain about it seem to not even own one.

    This post was edited by hvtech42 on Mon, Sep 15, 14 at 21:44

  • rococogurl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    mom2 - a gas cooktop/rangetop is a no brainer. It's what most people have and really like.

    Just to be clear: I didn't review the Berta rangetop. I suggested that you take a look at it based on my good experience owning/using their range for 2 years and knowing the price point.

    A search of this forum or a google search should turn up old Bertazzoni threads.

    I do agree with hvtech that Blue Star would be another brand to consider. They are known for their powerful burners though it doesn't sound like you care much about that. I am surprised to see separate grates on the Blue Star.

    All of this may be more than you want/need to know. Sounds like you just want a nice cooktop that's reliable.

    This post was edited by rococogurl on Tue, Sep 16, 14 at 9:15

  • hvtech42
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My view on the situation is that nobody needs powerful burners, but if you can get them for the same price or less, why not. You might have a little trouble getting a really good simmer on the 22K BTU burners, but that cooktop also has a dedicated simmer burner and 2 8.5 BTU burners.

  • rococogurl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One "why not" would be scorching if the cooktop is not properly installed against heatproof surfaces. And I'm not in love with a 22 K btu burner that close to control knobs. Also, I like to move pans across a range and found the continuous level great terrific for that. I don't like individual grates like the BS has. Don't find that type of top as functional.

    Then there's the issue of whether the BS would be "too much cooktop" for the OP based on the needs she posted. She's never cooked on gas. But that's for her to determine.

    I believe there are always tradeoffs and no right/wrong. Only what's right for the purchaser. The trick is figuring out what that is and finding it.

  • Mrs_Nyefnyef
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Also keep in mind that a very powerful cooktop like the Bluestar with its 22k burners requires a more powerful hood which costs more and may require the OP to enlarge her ductwork. If you say that you will never cook on Bluestar's high power so no need for a more powerful hood, then you may as well not get the Bluestar in the first place.

    To the OP, I like a rangetop better too. That Bertazonni is very nice looking though I am unfamiliar with it. Don't forget to include a 36" hood exhaust in your budget.

  • hvtech42
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    >One "why not" would be scorching if the cooktop is not properly installed against heatproof surfaces.

    One of the things that sets these appliances apart from restaurant appliances is that they are safe to be installed in cabinet and countertop cutouts. Plus, this just seems like a lame reason to avoid these burners. If it's not properly installed, install it properly. LOL! If the surrounding materials cannot handle the heat, I would not want to be installing ANY cooktop there, powerful or not.

    >And I'm not in love with a 22 K btu burner that close to control knobs.

    I might agree with you if it were a sealed burner of that size that shot the flames out the sides, remember the flames on these babies go right up from below the pan.

    >Also, I like to move pans across a range and found the continuous level great terrific for that.

    This makes sense when you're talking about sub $1000 gas ranges with 4 burners that are widely spread out. The grates on this model are so close together that sliding pans should be a piece of cake. Yes it will be tough to slide a pan from one side of the cooktop all the way to the other if another pan is in the center blocking it, but that's an issue on continuous grate cooktops too.

    >Also keep in mind that a very powerful cooktop like the Bluestar with its 22k burners requires a more powerful hood which costs more and may require the OP to enlarge her ductwork

    Ehh, yeah you need a more powerful hood compared to a standard cooktop, but the ventilation requirements are pretty similar compared to other high-end rangetops like Viking or Thermador.

    >Then there's the issue of whether the BS would be "too much cooktop" for the OP based on the needs she posted. She's never cooked on gas. But that's for her to determine.

    >If you say that you will never cook on Bluestar's high power so no need for a more powerful hood, then you may as well not get the Bluestar in the first place.

    You do not need to be a professional chef or even be good at cooking to appreciate it. I firmly believe it is something ANYBODY can take advantage of and enjoy.

    It seems like these issues are either non-issues or too minor to make up for the superior performance of these burners.

    Having said all that I can think of some situations where Bluestar/CC/AR wouldn't make sense. If the kitchen is all for show, and little to no cooking will be done in it, then of course ignore all this. Or, if are in the market for a range, and you are mainly an oven cook, you might want something with a better oven than the open burner brands have to offer. I don't think either of those apply in the case of the OP.

    I guess other people's priorities may differ but if I spend extra money on something, I want it to be noticeably better. I get these tangible benefits from my Electrolux induction range. There are also clear benefits with Bluestar, CC, or AR open burners. These benefits start becoming less apparent to me with the burners from Wolf, Viking, KA, etc.

    This post was edited by hvtech42 on Tue, Sep 16, 14 at 19:18

  • rococogurl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've been down this street before hv.

    "It seems like these issues are either non-issues or too minor to make up for the superior performance of these burners"

    It's your judgment that the BS burners provide superior performance. That doesn't make it a fact.

    I don't see a superior design for cooking with that cooktop. If I can't use it comfortably for everything what's the point?

    Again, it's all about tradeoffs. Not everyone wants/needs 22K open burners. For some, closed burners are just fine.

    And the point about the more powerful hood is very valid.

  • mom2sulu
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As I read through all of your very helpful posts, I have to admit that I just really feel ignorant of cooking on a gas stove. I know it is better than electric so I guess that is why I want to jump to it. However, I am also not sure what I need to purchase and whether any of your suggestions/concerns will be issues for me. It's not like I can test drive it or anything. :) Funny, it makes me wonder if I should just jump to induction instead. It seems so much easier and more like the smooth top I am coming from. How does it compare to gas cooking and is it easier to learn?

  • hvtech42
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The open vs. sealed burner debate never seems to end so I guess there's no sense in continuing it in this thread. mom2sulu, if you want to read up more on that you can search the forum. One pattern you will notice is that the people who have used both tend to recommend open burners, and the people who have only used sealed seem to defend sealed.

    However rococogurl is absolutely right that people have different tastes and you should find the one that works best for you. For me, the burners are key. I can live with grates and knobs not being perfect, I can't live with spending thousands on a cooktop that barely performs better than a much cheaper one. I admit to having my own opinion on this that may not be shared by everyone, and I was defending it fairly intensely a few posts up. Of course, that is to be expected on a forum like this, people will recommend what they like and when you're asking a question it's hard to know who to listen to.

    All right, so I'll give you my opinion again :). I prefer induction over gas, personally, though like before different people have different views.

    Induction advantages: Power, responsiveness, safety, easy of cleaning, less heat released into kitchen, less ventilation needed.

    Gas advantages: Knob controls, instant visual feedback, no electronics to fail, resale value, wider cookware compatibility.

    This post was edited by hvtech42 on Tue, Sep 16, 14 at 22:41

  • rococogurl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We are trying to be helpful -- sometimes on this forum there is too much information. And we're a little geeky.

    It's very hard to know what to buy because it is a blind purchase, as you say, though some appliance showrooms have working models you can test drive. If you have friends or neighbors with gas cooktops you might try taking dinner ingredients over there and cooking a meal to see how you like it. I think even one experience would be useful.

    Another thought: post on the kitchens forum with a thread describing your dilemma. Something like "Should I switch from smoothtop electric to gas or induction? Advice needed."

    Expect there will be others there who have made the switch one way or another and can give perspective on that.

    People who have induction seem to like it but it also seems to have it's frustrations -- buzzing, switching out cookware, some control issues. Gas has had very few complaints -- mostly there are conversation about technical aspects and burner power with plenty of opinions.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was going to suggest induction, but I assumed you had already decided on gas. I've had all three in my past, currently have induction, and hope to never have to use anything other than induction again. FWIW, there is absolutely no issue regarding control - it's the most responsive cooktop I've ever had (my previous cooktops, in reverse chronological order, were GE Profile gas, Viking gas, Kitchenaid gas, and in between (summer rental) a smooth top electric) For me, this is no contest.

  • pamela233
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can fully appreciate your dilemma because I have been going through the same thing. Yesterday I bit the bullet and ordered the .36" Thermador range top and I am very excited about it. One of the deciding factors for me was saving the $$$ from having a cutout with the cooktop. One of the posters on GW just happened to mention that with a range top no cut out is necessary. For me..that is a savings of $600 ($100 / sq foot) and so I allocated that to the price difference with the range top and I feel great about it.
    Also...re gas vs induction. During power failures you are still able to use the gas cooktop/rangetop. We have had a couple of power failures the last few years and I realized then the advantage of gas over electric.

  • jwvideo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    >>> I have to admit that I just really feel ignorant of cooking on a gas stove. I know it is better than electric so I guess that is why I want to jump to it. ... makes me wonder if I should just jump to induction instead. It seems so much easier and more like the smooth top I am coming from. How does it compare to gas cooking and is it easier to learn? Cooking is cooking and there will things to learn with any new range, cooktop or rangetop.

    That said, coming from smoothtop electrics and without experience with gas burners, you would likely find an induction cooktop more familiar than a gas cooktop/rangetop.

    There would be a learning curve as with any new cooktop or rangetop. A dial setting that worked on your present cooktop might be too high with induction so you might find that what required a knob position of 3 or 4 on your old cooktop might turn out to be 2.5 on the new induction cooktop.

    Plus, everything will be digital touchpads where you tap settings rather than turn knobs. That can be a big adjustment for some but trivial or preferable for others.

    Induction cooktops will be significantly easier to clean and keep clean than a radiant smoothtop.

    Another adjustment will be adapting to to the much more rapid responsiveness and greater power with induction. Basically, things happen faster, so you may want to do some of your prep work beforehand rather than as you go along, and, until you get used to the speed and power, you don't want to leave things going unattended on higher heat lest caramelized turn to carbonized. (Some induction cooktops allow you set timers for individual burners, which some find very handy as well as serving to mitigate or avoid the consequences of inattentiveness.) Induction turns heat downward very rapidly, which is much like gas (maybe faster) and very much unlike radiant electric.

    The biggest things to learn with gas would be learning to judge heat by observing the flame more than relying on knob position (gas being a totally analog system). That and learning to eyeball the flames to tailor flame size of the base of the pan when using pans with bases smaller than the maximum flame spread. Not complicated but something of an adjustment.

    As the others have pointed out, here, all appliance choices involve tradeoffs and personal preferences. I like the short summary comparison at the end of hvtech's last post above. Roccogurl summarizes things that have been negatives for some folks. On the whole, however, most folks who switch from gas to induction are as pleased with their choice as hvtech and sjhockeyfan. If you want some further reading on this, you might have a look at the long thread I've linked to below.

    You will see in the linked thread that I set out to buy an induction range but, like pamela233, wound up with a gas appliance instead. For me, it was a mix of factors mostly having to do with needing to buy a new stove immediately (my previous one had died), availability problems with the induction ranges I liked (at the time, there would have been several weeks wait on the induction ranges I liked but the gas range could be delivered in a few days), my budget (GE boosted the price well above my budget on induction range I had tried out), choice of vendor (and their take-back policies) and some other factors. That, and living in a rather cold mountain climate where excess kitchen heat is much less of the issue it might be if I lived elsewhere.

    From your postings, there may be a couple of additional considerations for you.

    One is that, afaik, there are no residential induction rangetop-style appliances currently available. Also, induction cooktops vary slightly in size and their countertop cut-out dimensions vary, as well, so the cut-out size problems seem unavoidable if you go with induction.

    As for pricing, 36" induction cooktops are (mostly) several hundred dollars less expensive than the gas cooktop and rangetops listed above. Exceptions are Bosch's new Benchmark series (as opposed to its 300/500/800 series). Also, induction cooktops from Gaggenau, Miele and Wolf will be more or less comparable in price if not even more expensive. If you go with Bosch 300-800 series, or GE or others, the choice will be more budget friendly for you.

    Hope this helps.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Does Anyone Here Who Went Induction Regret Your Choice?

    This post was edited by JWVideo on Wed, Sep 17, 14 at 15:30

  • mom2sulu
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You all have been invaluable! I am still undecided but am close to a decision. Thanks for the link, JW. It added some extra food for thought. I just have to figure out what will be best for me. I'll check back in when I make my final decision.

  • sonny_h
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My 2 cents: (This is coming from a guy who owns and LOVES a 6 burner Bluestar range top). If you are going to be an occasional cook, get the KitchenAid Rangetop. Its in your budget and looks great. It would help with resale down the road (Rangetops are preferred over cooktops in terms of kitchen "bling" and kitchens sell houses). KA is more than fine for day to day cooking. If later on down the road you decide you want to get into some serious cooking, you can swap out with a Bluestar or Capital with open burners.

    Don't overthink it. Get something you would enjoy looking at and using every day.

    I won't comment on some of the commentary about burners and such above (most of it induces too much eye roll for me). The one real downside of the Buestar cooktop (vs. the range top) is that cleaning the cooktop is much harder. While the range top has a slide out tray that is easy to clean with the open burners, the cooktop requires lifting the cooktop body and reaching in to clean any fallen food, which can be a pain. I saw one in person and could see getting very frustrated very fast.

    If you want to spend a little more than the $2500, I got my 6 burner BS range top for $3100 installed and I absolutely love it. You would never find yourself wanting for more in terms of a great, simple, gas range top. Picture attached.

    Cheers.

  • andersons21
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a Kitchenaid 36" open-burner gas cooktop from 1990, with 2 13,500 burners and 2 9,000 burners. I love love LOVE it compared with the electrics I have used -- 3 different glass smoothtops including 2 by Jenn-Air, and 2 electric coils.

    And the cooktop still works as well as it ever did. The porcelain finish on the grates no longer looks perfect.

    When I remodel, I'm planning to get a rangetop. I want more powerful burners (and not just in 1 or 2 positions), and I want the extra space for larger pans. I frequently want to use 2 or 3 large pans at once, like 12" skillets and 8-qt Dutch ovens, and these won't fit on my cooktop at the same time.