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Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Posted by bmorepanic (My Page) on
Sat, Aug 24, 13 at 21:14

I cleaned the oven today and I get to call for warranty repair because

Blue chips, smiling at me. Nothing but blue chips do I see.

So, the top of the oven where the retaining mount for the broiler is screwed or bolted into the oven top has lost chips - deep enough to expose the base metal and has quite a number of chips ready to fall.

I have never scrubbed the oven, never used harsh chemicals - h-ll, I never even saw the top of the oven before today.

I use the oven 2-3 times a week for cooking, the rest of the time its an occasional warming oven. Bread, pizza, couple of chickens, broiler for melting cheese or browning. Last thing baked or broiled was finishing up a pork loin at a whopping 325F. 275 to 325 is my normal temperature range with occasion forays into 400 for bread and 425 for pizza.

I'm cursed. :)


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

WEll all is not bad, Your singing is great, alto "maybe not" quite as great as the late and great Jim Reeves.

Hopefully it will be replaced without any hassles!

Good luck with it, in the interim, be careful those metal shards, you don't want a "matching finger to Rhome", do ya?

Gary


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I borrow songs from other singers. If I tried blue skies, it would come out like the very worst version of "The cat came back."

I hesitate to ask - I know she went through a lot of ovens - what happened to her finger? I thought those shards were glass?

The oven is currently on the injured-reserve list. Lucky me, I've spent so much time without an oven that I've got an entire repertoire of things to do that don't need one.

Here is a link that might be useful: Even the tuba sounds better my singing.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

She got one of those shardes (splinters) in her finger, but she was able to remove same, yes they are glass, or porcelain and they can be sharp!

Gary


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Great! I'll keep that in mind.
The range didn't quite make it to 6 months old.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Aw, jeez. That's one hard luck stove.

IIRC, the oven walls, top and back are modular pieces. Seems like the company might be able to to just replace the oven ceiling. (Didn't NXR already replace a side or base panel in the oven compartment for you? )

But, I agree with Gary: after all you've been through, they should replace your stove.

I'm hoping this is is diagnosed as more shipping damage and won't turn out to be a sign of an endemic problem. I would hate to find myself a couple of years from now having to report the kinds of oven enamel problems as Wekick has run into in year four with her Wolf ovens.

So, please let us know how Duro/NXR responds. Hopefully, they will stand behind the stove and fix it more quickly than with the last go round. They should recognize that it will be hard for us to recommend their stoves if they won't take care of this problem and do it promptly.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Adco is sending Landers(the local repair guys) again - they did an ok job the last time. On the phone the Adco rep was a little confusing, but he didn't think the top was replaceable and thought they'd swap the entire range out.

If it was going to blue chip, its still in the first year warranty so that's good. It is disheartening to hear about chipping down the road. Maybe I can use that as my excuse for not cleaning the oven!

I am so happy right now that we bought an extended warranty.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Well, so far, I haven't seen any reports of chipping in the long term (and, so far, unlike the woeful developments Wekick reported for her Wolf oven.) Swapping the stove sounds like the right thing for NXR and Adco to do.

BTW, what extended warranty did you get? Was it one sold by Plessers (isn't that from whom you bought your NXR?) or did you get it from a third party?


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

It's sold by Plessers - so I only have to talk to them (and bizarrely - they'll likely talk to Landers). We chipped in on their standard extended warranty and got 5 years bumper to bumper - including parts and labor. The next 5 years are all parts, but labor only on major components.

The extension has an interesting lemon clause where they will replace whole unit if it can't be fixed in 3 tries.

If they replace it, I hope they do the pickup and delivery.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Landers Guy came, took pictures (tablet camera with a good strong light), said there wasn't anything there that was replaceable. There is bare metal showing.

The pictures go to Adco. "Someone should be in touch."

I did an FYI to the dealer. I don't think there is anything for me to do until Tuesday-Wednesday. I guess it'll be a call to adco for status.

Just as an aside, the Landers person wondered about it when I said I wouldn't be using the oven any longer. I said to him that small glass shards might be raining down on the food and it would not be nice to eat them.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Being on hold with ADCO, I thought I would take the opportunity to update.

I sent ADCO an email yesterday asking for an update and had no reply, so I called at noon EDT to ask. I can hear the Jeopardy theme while I'm on hold.

AND they have no record of receiving the pictures. Or they might have and lost or misfiled their copies.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Called ADCO again near the end of the day.

"Still no pictures from Landers"
"Could you do me a favor and see if anyone contacted them, they're usually pretty fast."
"No one called them. Hold on while I call them ... I guess they left already. We'll try again Monday."

I think I'll call them Monday also.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

As a slight surprise, I called landers and found out that they just sent the photos to ADCO this morning. When I expressed disappointment that it took 1.5 weeks to send a few pictures, the receptionist said

"The tech had to email them from his cell phone first"

As if that takes a week or two?

Moving on...


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Friday afternoon's call to Adco - still no response from Jose at Durocorp. Asked them to query Jose for a response.

Buying Powerball Lottery Ticket as I feel the chances are about the same as getting a response from Jose without 10 more calls.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

2 more calls. First to ADCO who put me on hold to check with DURO Corp and were not able to raise a staff member. ADCO promised to call back. But unsurprised that no call came.

Called my dealer, whom I had sent an FYI and asked for help in getting durocorp to respond. It's now 3 weeks and two days since the original call.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Today called ADCO who were amazed that Jose from DuroCorp didn't call. I called Jose who basically said they had to get different guys if they felt they couldn't replace the oven panels. "Here is California, guys do this all the time."

Being 3000 miles from California, I'm not feeling ok about any bit of this range any more. I had two different people tell my this wasn't possible or was beyond their training.

First, I'm not happy having to do so much work for service. Second, I'm not happy to have so many problems. The range had been waiting for repair for almost 3 months of its not even 7 month life.

Third, I have no faith that the rest of the oven isn't going to chip.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Finally had a call from ADCO saying Jose had authorized repairs - this is after calls from myself, adco and my dealer. All it took was 5 weeks of constant calls and checking.

Now, I have to wait for parts to arrive and service to be scheduled.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

So, Duro has changed its mind about being able to replace the oven ceiling? That is sort of good news. My stove is now beyond the 1 year maker's warranty and it is sort of comforting to know I could get the parts to fix my oven if it started to exhibit the problems yours has suffered (though your stove's problems all seemed to be from shipping damage),

Still, the length of time is disappointing. Judging from irate postings on other brands of appliances, these kinds of warranty service delays are not uncommon today for any brand. (I've got friends who have had even longer waits on Kenmore fridge warranty repairs; talk about irate!).

Even so, you would think a small, new company would try to do better.

Personally, I still think they should replace your stove. Again, this all sounds like part of the serious shipping damage that led to the first round of repairs. Does your Plesser's extended warranty apply from day one or only apply after the one-year manufacturer's warranty? Does it replace your stove after you have three defects or do they get three tries to fix each defect?

Sorry for the rant. I do not mean it to sound critical of you, in any way. I'm just expressing disappointment with Duro/NXR.

Here's hoping they get the thing fixed soon.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

The warranty, of course applies after the first year. I'm not feeling happy with NXR, but I have no problems with what you're saying.

For some reason, my last post was the end of my temper. I called the local repair guys and had a long talk. I do not want the work done by someone who has never replaced oven panels. They gave me some advice in dealing with Durocorp and I have started acting on that.

The local service manager said he hasn't seen anyone replace oven panels in years. One of the problems is that the panels don't ship well - so the parts have to be shipped two or three times to get a complete set. The other is the quantity of stuff that needs to be disassembled - for what manufacturers offer to pay them, they don't want to do the work because they can't make any money doing it.

The conversation with Jose at Durocorp went - the advertising copy said trained technicians - I don't want people touching this who haven't done this kind of work before.

I'm afraid that the repairs will be done incorrectly and I'll have to wait another 5 weeks for another one. AND, since the local guys have never seen that type of broiler and have never done oven panels - I'm afraid they'll blow up the stove and my house.

If I allow this repair by people who don't know what they're doing - it would be with the understanding that you will immediately authorize complete replacement if anything goes wrong with this repair. I have already had 3 months of not being able to use my 7 month old oven.

THEN, he started to argue about how much needed to be repaired. As it turns out, Jose wasn't authorizing the correct panels in any event. Then, he asked for new pictures. I am going to see if I can get better pictures and send them over with a written request for complete replacement or a refund.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I would tell Jose, He has just about dealt the "death blow" as far as future purchases go, from anybody that reads "Garden Web".

I would not touch one with a 10 foot pole, regardless of price.
3 months is way to long to be without an oven!

Gary


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Apparently, Jose's hands are tied. Gary Dodge would tell you to ask for the e-mail for Jose's boss (or the company CEO) and then send him or her (or it) a link to this thread.

In Gary's absence, --- ooops, I just saw Gary's post --- I'll suggest you do that and also send them a link to every NXR thread here (which they already should have, anyway). If you can find a fax number, fax a a copy to them, as well.

NXR's inactions strike me as outrageous When I say "outrageous," I know whereof I speak, I used to be a black-belt bureaucrat, and I know a thing or two about obfuscation and delay. :>)

If they called me, I would point out how this forum has provided a lot of sales recommendations and invaluable favorable press for NXR. I would suggest to them that they should not neglect their mostly favorable impression by letting this simple problem languish as it has.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Wed, Oct 2, 13 at 23:37


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I would tell them to come out and take pictures themselves. you have provided pictures and patience and troubleshooting yourself. Additional pictures are part of the fix. let them fix. Yikes.

Doesn't Costco sell nxr? Let Jose and pals know that you will send this thread and the existing pictures to the buyers and executive offices at Costco.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I sent Jose an email asking for replacement or refund. And the photo is one of the two I sent.

"I have a difficult time telling you what I think is fair given both the condition of the range, the feasibility of the repairs USING UNTRAINED TECHNICIANS, and the amount of trouble it is to get repairs. I am very upset about this. I have now spent more than 3 months of my life arranging repairs on a 7 month old range. I have no faith that this range will last even 5 minutes past the warranty. You need to “talk to your boss” about a full range replacement or a complete refund of both the purchase price and the extended warranty I purchased from Plessers to cover the range.

Attached photos show the only corner of the broiler bracket that I was able to both light and take a picture of with a web camera inside the cover of a laptop. If you at the attached photos, you can clearly see that the oven wasn’t put together correctly or the entire range was dropped at the warehouse AS WE SAID DURING THE FIRST SET OF REPAIRS.

The corner has a large chipped area that is down to the bare metal. Near the first screw head to the left is a large crack through the porcelain down to the base. Near the first screw head above and to the right, is a large, light colored circle that, from my experience, is going to explode off pretty soon. There are at least 3 more of those in areas I couldn’t photograph."

Then, I pointed him to this thread. It is hard for me to do this. I like the way it works when its working, but I've really got better things to do and a more peaceful life to live. This ties my stomach into knots and I'm grateful for the support.

Its so much easier to demand proper service on behalf of clients than it is to demand the same thing for me. The dealer is also trying to get something cooking for me.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

My dealer spent some time yesterday trying to arrange an exchange, but he refused. He's got this speech down about what he can and can not do because of his boss, which I had listened to the day before and he gave the same speech - pretty much word for word to the dealer's representative.

I did speak to a person named Kyle on the phone. I asked for Jose's boss and was directed to this person. Would that I was brighter and asked for his last name!

We had a talk about what's gone on with the stove so far. He asked for the weekend to do research. He tried to launch into a "procedures speech" and I launched into what it feels like to have a 7 month old stove that I've spent over 3 months without it operating correctly and arranging repairs. I re-iterated that I wanted an exchange or complete refund.

I'm not sure how well I did. It's difficult when I'm tired, I'd said the same thing multiple times that day but ended up making small mistakes in my set speech and there is no backspace key in conversation!

I find it very hard to stay on goal - that I want a range that lasts at least a year without repairs.

It does not sound reasonable to me to have untrained repair people exchanging oven panels when they are obviously fairly delicate. What happens when the repair person over tightens the screws? Suppose they have shipping damage that isn't immediately visible.

According to Jose, they replace oven panels "all the time" in California. Surprisingly, this doesn't add to my comfort level - since either the oven panels are bad "all the time" or the assembly is bad "all the time". The local repair guys said they don't do it. The person they had sent over for the survey didn't think it could be done.

I don't like the idea of techs who have never done something like this messing around near the broiler (not that I can use it right now, but I also don't want to be electrocuted or have the range explode later).

Durocorp only has 15 employees. Jose is the service manager. The person in charge of Durocorp is called Saban Chang according to the California corporation records. He used to be in charge of NexGrill Industries.
I don't know if he is still in charge as this information is 10 years old. I have been unable to find an email address.

dh said my pictures weren't as bad as it actually looked and I almost burst into tears. I feel like I'm not making any progress, but I also have no idea what else I could do. I am secretly hoping they offer to refund.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

It may be time for a lawyer's letter. Companies often respond to legal threats. A letter may be all that's needed but you will need to be prepared to follow through.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

It is so disheartening. I have had issues with Dacor(bought them back after a horrific repair process) Electrolux (fixed under extended warranty) and Wolf. The Wolf DF chipping looks more like yours. It is unusable and I refuse to put more money into their still faulty enamel. We did not buy the extended warranty because the company we bought it from said we would never need it and Wolf would always stand behind it. They used to---but no longer. I think ranges also do not get noticed as quickly. I know that is with my case as mine was quite advanced when I found it. I would like to find out if there is a consumer agency that deals with this sort of thing. Most people do not know to look for this. Here is a small section of chipping to bare metal on my Wolf DF.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Hey thanks for the picture.

Of course, no one called today.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

And thanks for all of the advice, too!

Dealer called them today (I have a crazed work load for a couple of days and can't). They promised to get back to her, but it seems like no one did. I just now emailed asking if there was any response there.

Durocorp didn't call here.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I did find out I can't file a complaint about Wolf with federal consumer protection --government shut down.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Wow - this is just great. I can feel your pain.

Durocorp didn't call the dealer back either, but today, the dealer called them and found out that Durocorp doesn't actually have the parts in any event.

I'm going to call Durocorp again in about an hour hoping to talk to Kyle and get a decision to replace or refund.


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Zippity do dah :)

I just got off the phone with Mr. Kyle. Apparently he had an issue that took him out of the office until about half an hour ago.

He had the photographs evaluated by the actual engineering staff who said the range can not be repaired. An exchange has been authorized and a new range should be here approximately the end of next week.

I spent a few minutes explaining how upset I am, how long and how much effort the service call is has taken. I explained to him that multiple people, including an ADCO tech and the tech they sent here said that the range would need to be replaced in the first week, but here we are in the sixth week.

I told him that he should trace this call, as the same thing happened the last time and that no one should have to go through what I have. That Jose had in his possession links to this call log and he should read it.

I am thrilled to get one of my acceptable resolutions. I am imaging life without having to chase down various parties to get this range repaired.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

At last!

Please keep us posted on how well they do with shipping the replacement and picking up the old one.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I will have the new camera by then. I don't know if I said, but right after the first range repair campaign, some one broke into our house in the middle of the day. They started tossing drawers and stuff like that - and we came back. They lit out the back door as we were coming in the front. It felt really creepy, but all they got was my 8 year old camera. However, they caused about $1000 of damage because they broke a storm door and a house door and the door frame.

Because it was building season, we had to wait until August for new door frame (custom depth), new inside and outside trim, new storm door with steel bars, and strangely, the lovely carpenter resized our old front porch door and we were able to rehang it as the basement door. Guy did beautiful work - it's invisible - everything matches the fabric of our 1924 house. We were so pleased.

I got my first burst of genuine enthusiasm again - I finally felt secure again. That was the weekend I started to clean the oven.

I plan on photographing every thing that happens, the box, the unboxing, the condition of each piece of the outside and the oven. Maybe dh will film it with the web cam, too.

On the bright side, does anybody need an extra broiler pan or a slightly used oven rack?


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Hang onto any part that may be useful. I have some extra racks and thermo probes from my various exchanges.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Yeah, hang onto them. You can always throw that oven rack in as third rack for mass producing holiday cookies. The broiler pan for my NXR has been great. It is seems like it is half again bigger than the one I got with my old GE and far easier to clean. You can use them for roasting, too.

And about your basement door. Curiously enough, my basement door was the original front door on my vintage 1910 house. It got moved from the front in the 1950s when the owners redid the porches and relocated the doorway. They took the old front door to become back door when they added a utility room. About a decade ago, after I got the house, I rebuilt the utility room and put in a new door frame. I kept that old front door by also trimming it to rehang it as the basement door.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Congrats, bmorepanic. Glad to hear they will replace. I know it is taking almost more energy than you have left after this awful situation, but keep on top of the replacement. And if there's anything wrong, just see a lawyer.

My retailer, Abt, replaced a fridge at the third, third service call. And they offered any brand, not just the LG with the smelly ice maker. Been happy with the replacement.

Good luck. I wish you strength, peace, and enjoyment of you new stove again. Ws.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Thanks to all who stuck in for stove saga.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I have a new NXR 30 inch stove from Costco. I noticed a small area inside where they patched a small area by the seam with what looks to be blue enamel paint. This was done from the factory. I also noticed that the sides of the bottom plate are missing some of the enamel on mine. You don't see this unless you take the plate out. This is a part of the stove where the two parts will rub together; the plate is right above the bottom burner. I will take some pics after I install the stove, but before I start working with it. I did purchase from Costco, and I have no problem taking it back if there is any problem with the stove or if I am not satisfied with it, event at 250lbs.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I@black88mx6 - It would be faster to take to take it back imho.

So, this makes 2 repair sequences for me and each one was a nightmare of calling and checking and reconfirming. I'm in the seventh week from the initial call where the warranty service company said it was going to be a replacement of the entire unit. The other repair took 8 weeks.

My personal opinion is that you paid for a new range. It should not be crafted out of seconds or repaired parts. I might accept something trivial like the coating on the top grates having a repair, but not the coating inside of the oven.

I didn't get the replacement range last week and neither I nor the dealer received any more information from DuroCorp.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Take it back. Paint is not the same as enamel.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Agreed. One of the reasons I bought my NXR from Costco was its no-questions-absolute-full-refund-satisfaction-guarantee.

Also, I suggest you take some photos, if you can.

The stove weighs more like 305 pounds but the load will be noticably lighter if you remove the oven door, the grates, and the stovetop burner assemblies.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I finally called them. The service manager from Durocorp apparently has orders not to talk to me, but he did transfer me to Kyle. Who said that they were awaiting a ship arrival as they were back ordered and expected a container to be on the ship. I wish they had said that at the beginning.

I asked how the exchange was going to work. He said the freight carrier would bring the new one and pick up the old one. He said the carrier would call to arrange final delivery when it was out here. Minimum, it will be another week or two.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Added pictures of enamel issues with a new stove. I am going to test and watch the stove to see if this continues to be a problem. If so I will return it to Costco.

This is a pic of the painted area


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

In the front above the door is another chip, and I have one in the same area as bmorepanic, but the picture of it didn't come out very well, there looks to still be black paint behind it.


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Ain't ready to make nice yet

So, they didn't ship it last week.

So they called up today after a nag from the dealer. The dealer quite clearly asked to be kept informed - I forward them a summary every week and they forward me copies of their communications. They did not talk to the dealer, but I did.

So they said they called their shipping company today to pick it up after 'testing'. It will be here in 5 to 7 working days. That would make it pretty close to 10 weeks - if it arrives in good, working condition.

It's left a pretty good sized canker sore to be without a working oven for close to 4.5 months of this almost 8 month old range.

What makes this so unforgivable is the FIRST technician at ADCO said the range would need to be replaced during the first call. The technician dispatched from the local service company said it would need to be replaced the first visit.

Duro Corp has been obstructionist, not honest, and does not know their own product well enough to know what can be repaired and what can not be fixed. It doesn't listen to the technicians they hire, their customers or their dealers.

I now feel I should have gotten a different range. The difference in price is not worth putting up with this if it needs repairs while under warranty.

@black88mx6 - put a little water on it and see if it rusts. The metal under the coating is just steel, not stainless steel and it should rust by the next day if the coating is completely gone.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Hey bmorepanic... I'm hanging on awaiting your next installment! I can't wait to see if NXR makes this right by you. I'm close to making my final decision, and I was more ready to go with the NXR until I came across your issues here. Now I see Costco just came out with a rebate on this model, purchase and delivered (curbside, just like the on-line players), bringing the price to $1800. I'd order the center grate from on-line making the top continious.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

With the price down again, it looks like I will buy another and keep the best of the two. From what bmorepanic says, they may have a new shipment and hopefully this issue is resolved.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I will soon be able to tell you if it is or is not. I got a call from the shipper last night. Duro corp did NOT arrange to take the old one away, so we're on hold. California was still open, so I was able to talk to duro corp and they said they would speak to their shipper about correcting the transportation order.

The local freight house and I are waiting on those orders to be transmitted before scheduling delivery. They did specify an over the threshold delivery - so I don't have to help manhandle the beastie again!


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I so *%&^* want this to be over.

This is my reply to an email check-in from our appliance dealer. I had sent over the current status earlier today.

"Actually, Jose from Durocorp called (twice even) after I emailed you. I have his email address above and am including him in this email. The other person is listed as being the president of Durocorp. I would have sent to kyle also, but I’m uncertain of the spelling of his name.

They are now refusing to bring the 300 lbs range into the house and to take the old one away from inside the house. Jose said this about 5 times. I reminded him of the conversation I had yesterday evening (afternoon for them) with Kyle. He pretty much tried to say “they never do this”. I asked him to ask Kyle to call me when he was available as Kyle is Jose’s supervisor. I asked him to tell Kyle that refusing to do this now was going to be very bad and the call might take a long time.

The problems with the range are not our fault. We already paid for assistance (approximately $300) moving and installing the range . We should not need to do so again because the range has problems that aren’t due to us. Basically, aside from the fact that they already agreed to do this twice, we feel this is the VERY LEAST Durocorp could do. This range was placed in service at the end of February �" not quite 8 months in total. This range has been under repair for about 18 weeks �" over 4 months of that time. This service call alone is in its 10th week."


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I'm trying to figure out if they're bi-polar or if the email copy I sent their president got through or perhaps the dealer pulled some magic lever.

After the prior calls from Jose, the shipping agent had called to say their agent in California had reconfirmed the instructions and they were now told to only deliver to curbside. Which prompted me to go looking for our copy of the original order in case I had to ask for a refund. I admit to some level of feeling depressed by the whole thing. I hate going to lawyers.

About 6:30 pm, Jose called up, all lips of honey saying they were sending someone to install the range and pick up the old one and asked that I disconnect the old one from the gas on delivery day. They are stuck finding someone who can deliver the range up the three front steps but he thought they might be able to put it in Friday, etc. etc.

I feel like I'm trapped in American Horror Story. Wait! That's it - the range is the UnDead. Voodoo or something.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Zounds! Three front steps is a problem? Sheesshh! How many stooges are running that company? I remember when . . . .

Oh-oh. Gotta be careful here, The chronic-old-fart warning klaxon is blaring. :>)

This really should be better for you.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Lol! But you can be exactly that if you want to - tis the season.

I'm afraid to contemplate Thanksgiving tho, because of the curse. No menu, no plan, maybe I'll schedule a job instead.

I'm not taking bets on whether it arrives damaged for the same reason. I wonder if the curse can hear what I'm thinking?

Here is a link that might be useful: Cursed stove


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

And here we are in November. Jose called a little while ago and told me to go ahead and arrange delivery with both the trucking company and the the place they found to do the installation.

And who did they have to invest time and energy finding? Why, its Landers. The same people who are experienced at appliance installation and repair. The ones they sent out who said that the oven couldn't be repaired all the way back in week one.

So I have to do my own co-ordination but I do not have to pick up 300 lbs (new one coming in) or 250 lbs (old one going out). I'll start trying to do the arrangements on Monday. This should be fun in a strange way.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Thanks all for this thread. We purchases an NXR from Costco and will be double checking it for these problems.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Friday and they're coming with the new range sometime in the next 4 hours. Apparently, my old range is going on a boat trip to meet its makers so they can look at what went wrong.

I hope the new one is a keeper.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

My new one looks good so far except for the bottom underside of door. There were a few blue chips under, and when I moved my had over the underside of the door I found that there is a chipped area the size of a nickel. Be sure to check over everything, even areas not easily seen.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

The new one came at about 7 PM - full dark where we are, so I waited until this morning to start. I've cleaned the outside and washed up the burners and grates. Lot of oil, glue residue and some other gummy substance. A few tiny scratches that aren't worth talking about because they'll soon be joined by ones I cause.

So far, the grates on the old stove had a completely defective finish. I could slide a pot on the new grates without it sounding like a train. On the old stove, the grates actually scratched the h--l out of all of my pots. More on the ones I use frequently.

Another discovery, the hinges on the oven door on the side connected to the oven were installed incorrectly or were defective. The new door works perfectly, smoothly and quietly.

There are some items that I'm taking pictures of - not because I'm sending it back (yet). It's so other peeps know what to expect - examples of what "fit and finish" comments mean.

One burner head needs to be replaced. It's definitely the star of my photos so far. I won't explain the problem without the photo cause the photo is so clear.

Another burner [or it might be the same one - can't remember] is the wrong color - I have 3 gun metal gray burner heads that are very smooth. Now, I can understand jwvideo's comments about food not sticking to his burners now. The black sheep is actually black and very matt.

Thanks for the heads up about the bottom of the oven door. I'm taking a break before "Journey to the Center of The Oven."


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Thanks for the heads up on the burners and grates. Will go over all of them from the two ovens and keep the bear ones. Which is better? Those with the smooth finish?

I noticed that the new oven with the chip in the bottom mod the door has a click when lowering the door. Will bake sure I get a good set of hinges.

Did you notice anything different in the finish of the door handle?


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Chip in bottom of new oven door


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Old toe kick on nxr, you can see one of the dents my range came with.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

New toe kick. There is none. Not sure which I like better. I suppose the one without the dent.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Old handle finish.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

New handle finish. Oh, and the hinge noise on the new door happens to be a black machine screw loose inside the door.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I have the newer silvery handle. I used to have the other handle. The old handle seemed to match better. Also, the switches for the oven light and convection fan are different.

The crunching on the panel I found to be pretty much the door hinges. The newer range has a really good door mounting - no crunches, well balanced, smooth operation. When I took the door off of the old range prior to moving it, I saw the actual problem was the left side hinge - it was installed crooked. Both the manufacturer and the appliance repair guy forced the door in, but it didn't work correctly. Also check it if the crunching is coming from the area behind the hinges. If the screws are over tightened, it can break the porcelain.

Caveat for below list. I still haven't run the oven. The oven been dusted, vacuumed and washed. I'm trying to decide if this is good enough to fix before facing the burn off.

First picture is just herself, not 100% cleaned up and not really installed - just sitting there with electric and gas.
.
I cut out the can of barkeepers friend waiting for a second try at the outside of the door. I didn't realize how dirty the kitchen became until I saw the dust in these pics!

In the order of the pictures:
-- This seems to be a refurb and they seem to have told me a fairy story. Shocking, I know.
-- I have one top burner that lights only the center ring. If left in the "light" position, it will leak gas. In order to get the whole burner to light, I have to turn it down to simmer and then back up.
-- Except that every 6th time or so, it lights normally.
-- The oven displaying its 4 different colors of porcelain.
-- The top of the oven and the bottom oven frame display signs of use. The top of the oven has a porcelain chip that looks to be caused by replacing one of the side oven panels.
-- The back of the oven bottom removable panel has 3 porcelain chips.
-- The oven door glass has a trim ring that doesn't fit properly. This is the second oven door I've seen with this issue. It's going to make for a long term issue keeping junk out of the inside of the oven door and for keeping the glass clean.
-- This one is amusing but creepy. Someone modified a burner head for some wacko reason. Why would a customer end up with a damaged part like this?
-- Lil Blackie assembled. As shown, its matt black, shiney black and has one piece that is gun metal gray.
-- Lil Blackie and a normal burner. Just to show I'm not crazy.
-- These are followed by a selection of fit 'n' finish issues pictures in addition to the odd styling choices above.

Not pictured is the right rear burner head is kinda difficult to fit in. It's not related to any particular set of burner heads. If I was a betting woman, I'd go with there was a repair of some sort below the cooking surface that pushed the gas pipe out of alignment. I don't think its unsafe - just annoying.

And lastly, a link to the problems in the original delivery - put both together and its pretty damning.
First range problems on delivery pics

So, that's what I'm thinking through before raising either stink - burn off the oven to see how it cooks plus get it fixed or get it gone?

Here is a link that might be useful: Illustrations at photobucket.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

My vote is to get it gone. Sounds like it was a different customer's problem. You paid for new and you deserve it get new.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Different handle but still with the old kick plate and and old build date? Must be sourcing the handle from different places and will swap them depending on inventory.

I will try and get some pics of the inside of the new stove. It looks much better inside that the old, and from what I can tell looks better than your newest stove.

Its too bad that they already took your old stove, it would be easy to test that burner with one of your old ones.

On my two oven doors, I can put my finder nail in behind the trim on all for sides, but the trim is even all the way around.

At this point I would not take the oven with porcelain chips in any visible location or area that needed to be cleaned.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Unbelievable. It looks used. I would ask for a refund. I am speechless over that burner. By sending you this range they did not send you the NXR DRGB3001 Professional 30 Inch gas range that you bought. I would remind them that sending you a range that has been altered could get them in hot water with any organization that approves the design of the oven as it is no longer the same design. Look for any underwriters stickers or any other "approved" stickers so you can name the organizations. I would also remind them that this altered burner could void your homeowners insurance if there was a fire. They have put you at a lot of risk. If that has been altered, what else has been altered that you can't see? I would unhook it. I would also inform your dealer of these things. They have a responsibility in this as well. They make a profit from their sale to you and need to make this right.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

While I disagree with Wekick's "unbelievable" --- seems to me this kind of crapola is all too offen reflective of the unfortunately poor quality of warranty service in these times in the appliance industry --- I strongly agree that the situation is utterly unacceptable.

The magic words to invoke are "implied warranties of merchantability and fitness."

At least in Maryland, where you live, these implied warranties cannot be disclaimed or avoided by either Duro or your dealer (Plesser's, IIRC). The warranties mean you have a right to have them take the stove back and give you a full refund. No service fees, no restocking charges, no etc. Plesser's can say on their website that they have a "no returns policy" but that does not defeat your state's law on implied warranties for consumer products. Plesser's and Duro (and maybe Austex, the distributor) can argue among themselves over who eats this loss, but that's an argument that has no bearing on your rights.

Also, just looked in the warranty section of my NXR's manual and there is nothing in there that allows Duro/NXR to remedy a warranty problem by giving you used parts.

See the link below to the Maryland Attorney General's office for information on Maryland's law on implied warranties and for a place to call for assistance from the AG's office.

You may want to use that assistance. Send the AG links to these threads. I also suggest you start communicating in writing (e-mail) with Duro and Plesser's and cc the OAG's office, if you can.

Here is a link that might be useful: Publication: If It Doesn't Work, You Can Take It Back

This post was edited by JWVideo on Sun, Nov 10, 13 at 13:50


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

@black88mx6 - if you could take a few oven pictures, it might help.

@jwvideo -. I can't thank you enough for the link. I will file that complaint tomorrow.

I am preparing an email to all players. We are just sick about this.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

As requested; my newest stove


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

New range broiler


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

>>> " I will file that complaint tomorrow." <<<

Might have to be Tuesday. Tomorrow is Veteran's Day and likely the AG's office will be closed.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

bmore - I've been following your saga silently and totally sympathize. I've noticed there's relatively little mention of Plessers in this thread. Sounds like they're making a couple phone calls... but... are they standing behind their sale? Which has me wondering, are you local (Long Island) or did you use them as an online dealer? I'm not insinuating anything at all, just wondering.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Lol - I'm not good on holidays and such-like. Sometimes, too much date math concerning other years but sometimes - no excuse at all.

I had a small chicken accident last week that left me with a dislocated knee; followed by dh throwing out his back. Neither one of us could change the clock in the kitchen as it needed a ladder. Went threw the whole week never knowing for sure what time it was!

@black88mx6 Oh - you have a stainless broiler bracket. And a single color oven! Boy, am I envious.

Are the sides of the range longer as well as missing the little curved part? I like the looks of the square front better personally.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

My old one is not stainless. Didn't notice that change.

The front of the new one is flat and extends down to the floor, there is no toe kick.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

It seems like they replaced your range with a "refurbished" one. If the range were in excellent condition, it would probably satisfy the terms of the warranty. I know with printers, they often replace a broken one with a "refurbished" one rather than repair them, but usually the refurbished printers work fine. This is the first time I've heard of this with a range, but to be honest, I can't say it surprises me. I would demand a full refund.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Plessers - I'll be seeing that in a little while.

Email Text, sent to everyone I could.
----------------------------------------------

We are very upset. We are asking for a complete refund. I have attached a copy of our Plessers invoice. We are thinking of filing a complaint with our state’s consumer protection agency. The unit delivered (Serial Number HXIHDRG1020749) appears to be a refurbished unit. Actually, it appears to be one used for practice for new service people.

It’s 7 months old - see the picture of the inspection tag with its date of manufacture. That seems kind of elderly for a brand new unit that caused an extra 2 weeks of delay in replacing our non-functioning oven (because you were out of stock and you were waiting on a container just arrived in port). Being told that fairy story, and the fairy tale about “testing” the new unit before delivery makes this situation impossible. We can't trust anything Durocorp says at this point.

This refurbished range is actually dangerous. We are unwilling to wait another 10 weeks for another replacement unit or trust that it will be any better than this one. Following is a non-comprehensive list of what is wrong with the refurbished unit - other than the very real problem that we paid to have a brand new, fully functioning range - not one that spent almost half its life needing repairs and not one assembled out of broken ranges. I have attached pictures in the zip file.

What’s wrong with the refurbished range:

The right hand front burner only lights the center ring. When the burner starts with only the interior ring, the burner will leak gas. If the burner is turned on while the oven is hot, it may not light at all even though the gas is flowing out of the burner into the room.

Occasionally, I can get the whole burner to light by turning the burner down to simmer and back up - but this only works occasionally. Every once in a while the whole burner lights correctly. Pictures 1 and 2, showing the burner lit with only the center ring and picture 2 showing the entire burner lit. Again - THIS IS DANGEROUS as gas leaks from the outer ring of the burner, but doesn’t ignite. It is not a problem with the burner casting. If I switch castings, the problem stays. It is not a knob positioning problem.

The oven has at least 4 different colors of porcelain as if all of its pieces were made at different times - picture 3. In this picture and the following picture 4, you can see that the bottom of the oven, the fan enclosure (but not the fan itself) and the broiler cover show wear. In one orange circle on picture 4, at the junction of the oven back panel and the oven top is a porcelain chip. The other orange circle shows the back part of the broiler retaining clip is full of scratches as if it had been taken apart and reassembled. The oven pictures were taken before oven burn off.

When I wiped out the oven before burn off, I found a chip of blue porcelain - not the same size as the chip pictured. After oven burn off, I found another chip of blue porcelain. Adding these chips to the oven chip, it feels like the same problem that the other range had - dropping little shards of glass, potentially into cooking food. It could be poor workmanship - but that’s not a comforting thought either.

The glass in the oven door has a trim ring on the side facing the inside of the oven to cover the intersection between the porcelain the glass. This ring is apparently glued to the window glass at the factory. It is incorrectly aligned on one side of the oven door - allowing gunk and fluid to go into the oven door. The interior of the oven door is not consumer accessible for cleaning. Pictures 5 and 6 show both affected corners. In picture 6, the gap is about ¼”.

The removable oven bottom has three chips on the side that faces the oven burner. Shown in pictures 7, 8 and 9. 9 also has a really good hand and thumb print of the person who last put in the oven bottom. For me, this will affect its longevity as the oven bottom will rust. I have no safety concerns about chips falling into the oven burner tray.

The oven burner is not level from side to side - not pictured. On the right side the lower set of jets on the tube are slightly below the heat shield. The left side lower jets are well above the heat shield. I have no idea how the burner is supposed to be positioned.

Picture 10 shows a modified burner head. Someone has chopped and chewed off part of the casting with tools. The gas tube in the center has also been modified. This IS NOT the burner head on the dangerous burner - it is the multi-colored burner next in this list. As a person commented on the online record - these modifications would invalidate your UL listing and any other safety ratings that have not been performed with this modified burner. In our state, this range makes our house uninsurable.

Picture 11 shows a 3 color burner assembly - 2 pieces are matt black, 1 piece is shiny black and one piece is gunmetal gray - the color of all of the other burner heads. Picture 12 is a normal burner and the tricolored burner (nicknamed lil blackie) to show the difference.

There are 4 pictures showing nicks and pings. I do not mean these pictures to represent all of the nicks and pings - it’s just a sample.

We do realize that several of these issues could be solved with parts and repairs. But nothing will solve the chips in the oven.
---------------------
Their attachments were higher resolutions photos that show about the same things.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Ohh BMore;

I (and I bet so many others on this board!) am so sorry to hear you are STILL going thru this... it is so hard to beleive it has gotten this out of hand, and they had a chance to do good, do right and swap the range, and it appears they did so with a used or demo?? model. Totally unacceptable.

I wish you the best resolving this... I won't hijack this thread with my recent experience, so I'll pop over to my previous message in this appliance forum. I hope you get a full refund and move on to another, happier range. Your backsplash and design/layout look great, nonetheless.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I did want to say thanks again to every one. I'm grateful for the support. I'm really nervous and jerky about this whole thing.

We chose Plessers by price and reputation. At that time, we were unaware that Costco carried this range so they weren't an option. Baltimore is kinda low on appliance dealers.

We got Cummins (local dealer), Kitchen Distributors plus Bray and Scarff (regional dealer). I'm done. I have never been in Kitchen Distributors. People tell me that in my price range, there's no reason to go.

There's more choice of lower priced ranges and places like Sears, Lowes, etc. We tried to find a lower priced one we liked back in January.

I looked at second hand places and Second Chance without success. I should get hints from a professional shopper or something.

I have the same feelings as weissman about refurbished appliances. I would have taken it if not for the oven chips as I felt everything else but the faulty burner was fixable with parts sent through the mail. I pulled the knob off that burner for now.

It creeps me out, that burner. I'm afraid it will fall apart in the middle of the night. The stove is getting disconnected tomorrow or day after depending on the plumber.

Part of the problem is that I feel like a rube now because I believed them and I should have known better. I'm mad that I was an idiot. Another part is that this has been going on for so long with so many people involved that I am just exhausted.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

And now, bizzarely, Durocorp is trying to fight about it.

They are having the famous Jose respond to the dealer only - to the effect that they are placing a normal call through the warranty center.

So, I sent Jose and the dealer a blistering email, text below. He again responded to them to say that the warranty center would call.

========================
We talked about this condition in advance �" that if there was anything wrong �" damaged parts, chips in the top of the oven and leaking burners to mention a few �" that a full refund is the only acceptable termination.

We are demanding a full refund in the amount shown in the Plessers invoice - $2,148.99. We want you to remove the replacement from our home within the next week at your cost. It is not acceptable to continue this relationship in any manner after you lied to us. It is not acceptable to spend OVER 134 days �" which is what we have done so far - dealing with appliance repairs, partially functioning ranges and one that was sent with a fairly dangerous defect that leaks gas or to get a replacement range where we haven’t even USED THE OVEN and it has a chip in the oven ceiling and has dropped another two chips from somewhere.

Duro Corporation needs to send the refund and a truck driver within the next week. If you do not agree, we will pursue further legal action against both companies. You should be grateful we are not seeking to recover our time, plumber bills or punitive damages.

We would appreciate a direct response.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

The response from Durocorp (3 days and 3 emails later):
=============================================
We are very sorry that you are not happy with the Range, after all the effort that we done. We can assure you that the range you received is a new unit.

If you would like a refund you would have to contact the dealer were you purchased the Range.
============================================

I try to keep it clean here, so I won't be saying anything. But then again, I have 150 pages of documentation in emails, another 20 in scanned documents and about 60 photos. Plus a call journal. Plus all the notes at Adco.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

This is amazingly sucky behavior from Durocorp. The NXR is certainly off my list now. You mess with one gardenwebber, you mess with lots of gardenwebbers!

I wonder what Costco is going to do with all they ranges they're destined to get piled up in their back room as returns that the company won't take back.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Yeah Fori - I feel like its an episode of the outer limits. Apparently, dealer, distributor and durocorp are thinking about it.

I just found out the replacement range has 2 serial numbers. The labels on the documents don't match the actual serial number on the hang tag inspection sticker. That's when I noticed the big, new label pasted in the range booklet in the warranty section with extra conditions not in the old booklet.

If you read number 1, they will not cover instructing you on how to use your range to correct your house wiring or replace fuses.

I've never used a range to replace a fuse. You'd think it wouldn't fit.

Here is a link that might be useful: New Warranty page


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

LMAO!


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

LMAO!


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

You might as well try. There MUST be some use for the thing!


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

And Plessers came through - we have a refund agreement and someone will come and pick up the range. It's really great that Plessers took over negotiating with Duro corporation and got this done.

It's going to take longer than we'd like but its a good outcome. We'd already faced the fact that there would be no Thanksgiving cooking. This morning I finally remembered there will be some lead time if I ever figure out what we're buying next.

This is where I'm mostly cooking - on the Camp Chef with assistance from a baby charcoal oven.
Outdoor Kitchen

It's attachments are a blue tarp for a bit more weather proofing, some temporary lighting and the grates from an old range. It does have a roof overhead.

And here is my current range - a Burton induction plate set up on some boards with a cheezy plastic table cloth finishing off that custom look.

My Range


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Looks like things are under control and this issue will be resolved. I wish that there was an appliance vendor with a 100% satisfaction rating; it would make things easier for us as long as we could afford it.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

After all above conversations i have no comment for this.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sub Zero Dallas


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

black88mx6

Did you maybe mean "appliance maker" with a 100% satisfaction rating rather than "appliance vendor"? Boy, don't I wish we could get that! But, then, that's what warranties are supposed to be for.

As you, I and others have noted, Costco seems to be one of the few appliance vendors with a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Of course, that is not a 100% satisfaction rating, It does not assure that every product is wonderful nor that 100% of buyers will rate themselves satisfied. The best that can be said, I'm afraid, is that Costco makes it relatively easy to avoid the kind of warranty-service ordeal to which bmorepanic was subjected.

bmorepanic

I had to laugh when seeing your photos. Those look like my indor and outdoor solutions last year when my previous stove (a GE dual fuel) unexpectedly died shortly before a large, long planned event. I used a similar rig for a couple of weeks while stove shopping and waiting for delivery of my NXR.

Outdoors, I had a Camp Chef stove, too. Do you have a gas grill, maybe? I do and found that I was able to use my Weber gas bbq as an oven provided I used remote temperature probes ($20 at most hardware stores) and, for baking, put unglazed quarry tiles on the drip bars beneath the grilling grates

An obvious use for the grill on Thanksgiving is for roasting a turkey. My experience is that it seems to work better if you spatchcock the turkey as Julia Child recommended (see "How to Cook" at page 159 or check out the latest issue of Cook's Illustrated for an updated version that can be done with stuffing.)

With unglazed quarry tiles on the diverter bars beneath the grilling grates (and suitable preheating), I also found that the gas bbq/oven did a pretty fair job in baking pies and a quiche and also made very decent rolls and loaves of bread. Funcitoning was rather like the ovens in vintage-1950s gas stoves.

Indoors, I too used a Max Burton unit on a work-table under my range hood. I've found that the MB portable induction unit works well enough for many things including pressure cookers. One thing I learned recently in another thread is that you can get around the MB's somewhat limited 1-10 power settings by switching over to the "temperature" settings which seem to fall between the whole-number power settings.

So, for Thanksgiving, all may not be lost if you decide to cook at home. In the meantime, I wish you luck in your search for a new range.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Mon, Nov 18, 13 at 17:33


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Thanks jrw. Good to know that I'm not the only insane one. 34 degrees tonight.

Yeah, no grill unfortunately. I have done 3/4 spatchcocks before and worked great - just leave the breastbone and ribs. When reassembled with a stuffing prop, it looks like a "real" turkey.

The Restaurant Store has started singing to me at night. 1/4 size ovens have a special tune all their own and its not too far away. Just put under the Max and why the h_ll buy a range at all?

We are having difficulty figuring out what to do for a new range We're pretty far apart on what kind of thing we should buy and getting sparky with each other.

Saw a refurb Heartland Metro on ebay, but I'm pretty sure it ain't got no warranty. It looks like heartland dropped their whole metro line anyway - does bode well for parts availability.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Lets just say that there is no appliance mfg that provides 100% satisfaction on their appliances. There are a few that say they do, but then make you jump through all the hoops. Look at how many mfg now charge a service fee just to have warranty work done, regardless if the appliance is broken or not.

Costco is one of the few retailers that provide a service today that I am willing to pay for. I purchase a lot of product at Costco; including impulse buys that I would not otherwise buy due to their 100% satisfaction policy. I will continue to buy there, including the NXR as long as this policy continues.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

I've been reading this and thanking my lucky stars that I didn't by a NXR. Glad to hear that the dealer finally came through. Stuck with many more of these and they probably won't be a dealer for long.
I think that the Metros were discontinued a few years ago, so, yeah, I'd wonder about parts, especially since it's not a mainstream brand.
I did pick up a restaurant supply 1/4 oven to have around for the renovation and to help with big parties. It was a used Cadco that ran about $300 if I remember right. Love the thing. They also make a 1/2 sized that runs on 110, but they are considerably more. There's a good churn on those ovens -- coffee shops, food trucks, etc that close up or need something bigger. They turn up on Craigslist pretty oven in my area.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Why don't you get an induction range? Show your dh some of the threads on gw talking about the attributes of same. You need to be grief free. And a self cleaning oven WITH a warranty would be a good thing. I don't care if Plessers does or doesn't sell it . Go to Sears?Always get a warranty. You learned a lesson, no?


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Westsider, you are so right. Aside from all the stress of dealing with people, I get uptight without an oven. I almost had a fit of the vapors when that replacement range leaked gas.

Rhett, Oh, Rhett - where shall I go, what shall I do?

I have told him induction is one of the acceptable ones. He's afraid of what running a 220 would cost to begin with and then what the running costs run. We pay about $5-$7 a month to run the previous gas range. I haven't any idea how to estimate the running costs of an electric range.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Why not consider induction, indeed? Worth considering if you have 240v service in that stove cut-out, and if your area of Baltimore does not have frequent problems with power reliability, and if you have enough induction-ready cookware to get through the holidays.

As for operating costs, it probably won't be much difference in your power bill. Cooking appliances actually don't make much difference. When I was stove shopping and did a comparative analysis between an NXR and a couple of induction ranges, the difference was trivial. Pennies per month. Maybe $10 to $15 per year for a whole lot of cooking back when our electric rates were higher and our gas rates lower. Ran this again last summer when our electric rates were a bit lower and the gas rates a bit higher and the difference for me with a lot of daily cooking and a lot of entertaining was down to about $7/year. Check out Michael Bluejay's "Mr. Electricity" website. I'll post a link to his energy cost calculator.

If induction is feasible and running a 240v line is not prohibitively expensive, maybe you could talk to Plesser's about them doing a straight across swap for one new GE PHB920 freestanding ranges. It is in the same price range as the NXR and has a couple of useful conveniences including the ones Westsider pointed to -- the much larger oven with self-cleaning functions. (Kind of a trade-off for the more constricted cooktop real-estate and the backsplash mounted controls.)

Last year, when I had to go stove shopping, I looked hard at induction ranges. Actually, I had been planning to buy one when the prices came down a bit and I could get one with design layouts more to my liking. That plan went out the window when the old stove died unexpectedly. I wound up comparing the NXR with couple of freestanding induction ranges from GE and Samung. I thought about over my personal preferences and the various stove's features and about how it would be to live with each stove. Getting the NXR from Costco slightly edged out the two induction ranges, but slight changes in factors could easily have given the edge to one of the induction ranges. For example, I like appearance of the new GE models more than the previous design which, to me, looked liked large microwaves. Not a look I liked. Of course, the assemenet of functions and looks will be very much a "YMMV" type of thing.

Anyhow, I know very much the feeling that "1/4 size ovens have a special tune all their own and its not too far away. Just put under the Max and why the h_ll buy a range at all? "

I'm not sure about westsider's comments about buying a warranty. The NXRs come with a warranty. Pretty much everything you get comes with a warranty. Trouble is, that everybody's warranty service can be bad these days. While I think Westsider is taking about buying an extended warranty, those are often serviced by the same contractors who provide outsourced warranty service to major brands.

Around here, that can be especially true if you buy from Sears and have to get warranty service provided through A&E, the joint venture between Sears and Whirlpool, Beyond that, much extended warranty service here is provided through A&E and the quality of the company's service has been highly variable. In my neighborhood, I've heard of numbers of instances of service that was just as as abysmal and even more delayed than what happened to bmore with the the NXR. Shouldn't be that way but it all too often is. Before buying a Kitchenaid fridge last year, I made d___ sure that I could get any warranty service done by our local highly experienced appliance service guy rather than having to through the A&E bureau that is 70 miles away.

That leads me to reflecting on the comment by Chester's_house, it seems to me that it really won't take many defective ranges to sink a small brand like NXR. Margins are so thin on these ranges that even one return can be financially problemmatic for smaller dealers and maybe even for the distibutors like Austex, who supplied the stove to Plesser's in this instance.

Now, it certainly seems to be the case almost all of the NXRs are good stoves -- provided that yours did not get damaged in shipping --- but the small market share mean that even a few reports of shipping damaged goods and poor quality warranty service can sink a brand or a model line. People may think: the odds are small that I'll get hit by lightning, but they also think, "why take a chance?"

That is where I find myself nodding in agreement with what black88mx6 just said. Frankly, I would not have considered an NXR except through Costco. With buying from Costco, at least, I knew I was pretty much protected from getting a lemon or one with delivery damage problems. Heck, I could have taken the stove back for a full refund just because I didn't like it, never mind warranty issues.

Heartland made some interesting ranges but I would be reluctant to buy one now that the Metro and other Heartland lines are gone (except for the 19th century wood-stove look-alikes), I would really hestiate on buying a used Metro from e-bay. Strikes me as similar to buying a used SAAB from e-bay. (FWIW, I put 350,000+ miles on a SAAB Turbo that was a wonderful car. Iin its day. But that was when I lived in places with knowledgable SAAB mechanics and the company was still keeping stocks of parts. Back before GM ate the company and then sold the brand to somebody who assembled them out of Subaru parts and then abandoned the market.) Seems like Heartland ranges may be in the same situation. These days, I wouldn't consider one, let alone buy it from eBay. I'd rather go for something like a genuine old stove lsuch as a Wedgewood, Chambers or Merritt & O'Keefe. There are enough enthusiasts around that parts are pretty readily available and there still seems to folks around who knowledgeable about servicing them, and there is not much that can go wrong with them once they are repaired..

Plus, I recall the Metros all being sold with custom colors, at least teh ones I saw in a salesroom. Seems to me that many of those colors and the vintage 50's might look odd in Bmore's kitchen, (Very nice kitchen design, btw,)

Just my 2 cents worth. Well, maybe 7 cents. ;-)

This post was edited by JWVideo on Tue, Nov 19, 13 at 11:51


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Here's the link to the cooking costs calculator. If you read into the text, he says to take the electrical range cost and drop it by 30% for estimating the costs of operating an induction range.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mr. Electricity's Gas vs. Electric Cooking calculator


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

My mother, bless her, had a 1974 Saab Sonnet in stoplight yellow. It didn't actually go fast - but who cared? It looked fast and it sounded fast.

We can't actually fit any standard range - the height of the back of a standard range compared to the height of the narrow shelf on top of the backsplash doesn't work. Well, except for the lowest end hotpoint.

We've talked through modifying the backsplash, but for assorted reasons that would cost about $1000.

We don't have a 240 outlet at the range. We could think about the GE induction slide-in but $2800 for a ge profile plus $500-$1000 for installing the outlet/breaker/cable just feels too high.

I think we're down to Dacor all-gas DR30 as a slide-in, Bluestar RCS new or old model, or do a Bertazonni. The berta would cause counter mods because its shallow. Not as costly as doing the backsplash, but unknown.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

After all you've been through, you should treat yourself to a pro-style gas range without a backsplash - Bluestar, Wolf, DCS or Capital. I don't know much about Dacor these days, but in the past, the reviews were mixed at best. Before buying a Bertazonni, read the review about the Bertazonni oven on the Kitchen Forum.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

All righty then, no so much bertazonni.

I don't know what to think about comparing service between Blue star and Dacor. Blue star is close enough to rent a truck and dump it back on their threshold.

I'm talking about both with dh. Dacor is $300 less delivered and has a 3 year warranty. It's hard to tell what to do.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Being able to haul a defective BS back sounds attractive as a political statement if you got a lemon, but, unfortunately, getting your money back usually requires going through your retailer.

If you've been reading the BS threads here you have seen that, nothwithstanding some posters' fanboy/cult tendencies, BS warranty service and support has been uneven. Seems that most folks are pleased with the purchase but some number of people do need service. Some of those have been pleased with warranty services they've needed while others have reported dismal tales of shabby treatment as bad as or even worse than what happened with you and Duro/NXR. Some stories fall in the middle. Some people just seem hapless. The kind of mixed bag that bears some thought when considering a small-brand appliance purchase.

I see that Plessers is offering that Dacor DR30 at $2899. If the BlueStar RCS is $3200, does it include the mandatory (additional cost) backsplash/trim piece? Last spring, our local BS vendors had a special promo pricing where the RCS models could be had for $2899 with a trim piece for another $100+, but I think that promo ended in June. Is there another promo or is the $3200 for a demo/floor model/used BS stove?

With Dacor, my recollection is that most of the problems reported here have been with out-of-warranty failures in the fancy electronics that Dacor installed in their electric and dual fuel ranges. I also recall that there were some complaints about maitaining the stainless surface and maybe the black porcelain enamel of the cooktop. (Doesn't the Dacor have a black porcelain enamel top?) You might want to check through the Dacor complaints posted at www.consumeraffairs.com. (There were something like 250 complaints the last time I looked, although those covered every kind of product from fridges to dishwashers as well as stoves. IIRC, very few about the company's gas ranges). Anyway, since the the DR30 "Dacor Distinctive" model you are looking at is a line with practically no electronics --- only some oven temp sensor circuitry and the surface burner re-ignitor, I think --- you likely avoid most of those problems,

FWIW, the DR30 was number 4 in Consumer Reports ratings of 30" pro-style ranges, after some dual fuel ranges by KitchenAid and Wolf.. It was the number 1 rated pro-style all-gas range.

While you are considering spending in in the $2800 price range, you might want to look at the GE Cafe all-gas models, too. For the last three years or so, the current Cafe lineup has been getting pretty favorable discussion here. Has a stainless cooktop rather than paitned black porcelain enamel. Also, holiday sales pricing may result in reduced prices, too, although that cost savings would likely be offset by getting an extended warranty for the electronics. There's also a Cafe model with two actual ovens, if that would be of interest. Probably (though not certainly) can get one delivered before Thanksgiving, too.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Tue, Nov 19, 13 at 16:02


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

How about American Range Performer?


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Dollar bills. They are just absent. I can not go over $3k. I think a performer bottoms out at $3,700 or so.

Dacor dr30GIS is about $2800 everywhere. Dacor is running a warranty extension out to 3 years for free. At AJ Madison, it includes in house delivery.

BlueStar RCS30IRV1 is $2899 to $3149, delivered in house, with 1 yr warranty.

Cafe with a fish burner is about $2900. I understand why you suggested it but spent 6 years cursing out the old GE profile for that particular 17k burner.

Dacor must have a manic enforcing their price collusion (I believe there is a more politically correct term). There is nearly complete uniformity of pricing.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

How about Five Star? The (semi open) burner all gas is in your price range. It doesn't get a lot of love around here, but those who have them seem to like them. And I've never seen even a single thread cursing one.


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

Your stove nook is pretty even without a stove.

Maybe you can be a trailblazer and test out the Smeg for us. It's kinda cute!


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

The smegs are so cool looking. But then there's this guy:
on Youtube. Somehow, I think that might be me later. There are other lackluster reviews and a few who like it. Odd control board problems + cheezy grates mostly.

It's also a little odd sized - only 25" deep. I'm not sure what to make of that with 25 5/8" deep counters (thanks again, ikea).

If I do go for the dacor (feels safer), I'll have to get it real feet. Does anyone know the size of the center post that cheezy feet use, the kind that screw in, but are just the post and a small disk on the bottom?


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RE: Hard to believe - August and the Nxr blueschips

According to dacor, no feet replacements are possible. Somehow, the dual fuel has real feet, but all of the others have cheezy screw posts.

Customer support person caught Engineer dude who said no way to remove 'em without sawing them off. It's kind of a bummer.


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