this has all been dealt with in a number of threads before.

you must must go see induction in person or else you are just reading other people's written words.

within a few days, someone will link you to a few of the previous discussions in this forum. Meanwhile, go hunting using keywords in this forum's search engine OR in Google itself. For Google, add gardenweb as one more key word.

My favorite induction feature is less time spent cleaning, but I also like not having to worry about setting my sleeves and potholders on fire or burning my fingers on hot handles.

I own a Capital Culinarian but I wish I would have gotten induction ....

With the minute a day I spend cleaning my rangetop I could have picked up golf.

I buy potholders by the dozen at the 99 cent store.

On the one hand I could have saved $200/week on therapy about my phobia regarding burning my sleeves but I am sure the poor Haitians that get my burnt sleeve Ralph Lauren dress shirts are gratefull. Port-au-Prince is virtually fully clothed.

On the other hand I have met a lot of great nurses at the local emergency room with all my burnt fingers. If you are reading Tracy,Janet,Maribel,Jazmin,Laurie,Ana,Keiko,and Amina... a big SHOUT OUT.

davidrol1-the problem is that I've read too many of the threads, google, ajmadison, sears, consumer reports etc. etc. Induction in person, I did try a couple, the wolf single and the samsung free standing, but of course not the GE, as that is only sold at Sears here in Canada. But thanks for your advice.

Thank you jxbrown and deeagueaux (exaggerating much? :) ) It is these little things that I'm looking for for real world use.

The question seems to be a simple one but got mixed with editorial statements that provoked editorial response rather than answering what I think you probably wanted to find out about extra work you will need for induction vs what extra work you would need for a Wolf AG or DF

The first thing that occurs to me is that you may have to do something about that 60 to 70 amp subpanel being where the stove will go. The GE only requires a 40 amp 240v circuit, so you should have have ample wiring capacity for it. For a Wolf DF, you would still use the 240v outlet for the oven. But for the Wolf AG you will need a 120v outlet in addition to having the gas outlet plumbed in.

Second, how is that subpanel installed? Is it recessed into the wall or is it a box mounted inside the cabinet that the cooktop was on? (Hopefully, it is not in the middle of the wall behind and slightly above the stop top.) Unless that subpanel is recessed into the wall, you will need rewiring to either recess it or relocate so that your new stove can slide in flush with the back wall. You will have to do that whether you go with a gas, DF or induction.

As for the suggested 300 CFM hood: you've probably read the threads that say "no way" for a 4 burner Wolf stove, As you've undoubtedly read elsewhere, the rule of thumb for stoves like the Wolf with 4 burners being 1 CFM for every 100 BTU/hr burner capacity, you should get at least a 600 CFM capacity hood for that stove. (The general recommendation, also, is to get a hood wider than the stove to help with pick-up, so a 36" hood would be a hood thing for a 30 inch stove.) For a four burner electric stove like the GE slide-in range, the rule of thumb is 100CFM for every linear foot of cooktop. So, maybe a 300CFM hood would sorta, kinda work for the GE induction. Depends on how you cook. Lots of wokking, searing steaks on griddles, heavily using all four burners (I'm not counting the GE's radiant warmer burner) -- you would probably want the same 600 CFM hood you would get for whichever Wolf stove you get. But, maybe your local building codes or inpsectors may require make-up-air systems for hood capcity over 400 CFM? Best check on that. Also, how tight is your house. If the house is well insulated and well sealed, them a hood could backdraft other gas appliances, meaning, again, a need for make-up air.

Do you have a hood now? If not, what kind of vent-tubing will you install and what will the run look like? Maybe it will go through a wall directly outside? The more bends you have, and the longer the run of tubing, the more you want to think about power.

Finally, what are you doing about the wall behind and aove the range? For both of the stoves, you want the back wall to be covered in something flame-resistant and easy to clean. I believe Wolf sells backsplash kits but the last time I checked GE did not have one for the PHP slide-in induction stove.

We are replacing electric coil Jenn-Air with Induction. I don't like the idea of an open flame, and the smooth cook top will be easier to clean. We already own cookware that works with induction (All-Clad tri-ply and cast iron skillets).

I switched from electric to gas and will never go back. I like cooking during a power outage. I simmer a lot and my DCS simmers on all burners, I love the Infra Red broiler and everything I roast is more moist. I do not find the heat a problem in the summer, my vent takes it.

As someone who bakes a lot (bread, cookies, cakes, etc...) -- my PERSONAL opinion is that an electric convection oven is superior to a gas oven. A gas oven would be a deal breaker for me.

All things being equal, get what is cheaper. You will no doubt be happy with either choice you make. Save some $$ and spend it elsewhere in your kitchen.

Thank you so much for all your responses! I appreciate the 'why's of your choices, as it helps me think about how we cook and what our needs are.

Yes JWVideo, that is exactly the info I was looking for. Sorry for my long post, but sometimes I feel the need to justify my choices with way too much info! And yes, of course the subpanel is in a mounted box in the middle. And I will have to check with codes. We do have a hood, maybe 300 cfm, can't remember when I bought it 7 years ago.

And a backsplash will be installed behind the range. If we went with the wolf, those backsplash kits look sharp.

Thank you again for your very helpful responses :)

I would go with the Wolf AG.

I guess induction must clean itself, I spend roughly 10-15 seconds cleaning my Gas stove top every day.

My kitchen is small, and I like being able to use the induction cooktop as counter space.

I don't know if the GE has one, but many induction units have timers, which are a handy feature. I'm not familiar with gas, does it have timers?

One point - not all SS cookware is ferromagnetic. Have you actually checked your pots with a magnet? You don't want to have a surprise when you start to cook. Getting new pots, however, is not a big deal. You don't have to spend a fortune unless you want to. There are many types of induction capable pots available at BB&B, Marshall's, T J Maxx, Tuesday Morning,Target and Walmart. If your pots are over 25 years old, as mine were, it's nice to have an excuse to get new ones. Just be sure to put a fridge magnet in your purse.

I know, I do like timers, the wolf df has some electronics, so I like that as well as some of the other little features, such as the glide rack.
I have checked the pans with a magnet, it works.

I have heard about buzzing with the induction, which I guess is a big concern. Can anyone speak to that?

Thanks!

Nunya, I'm worried about you!!!!
You are gonna "fade away to Nuttin" if all you are "eating" is boiled water! Your NXR burners are even cleaner than the hobs on my Elux Icon , and I may spend as much as 30 seconds to a minute wiping them down, after cooking on same.

Gary

We have a Thermador induction cooktop. I haven't yet encountered the clicking, humming or other noises that some people report. When an element is set to boost, a fan will start up but it's a very low sound, not at all obnoxious.

As Ginny said, some induction units have timers. I find this very handy for things like stock. I set the timer to cook for XX minutes which it does, then it shuts itself off.

Another feature our cooktop has is the temperature associated with the numbers on the control panel. So a #5 may correspond to 195F. I've tested this with a thermopen and the temperatures are fairly accurate.

I hadn't appreciated the quick and easy clean up until I boiled a pot of jam over. On gas this would have carbonized into a mess. On induction, a wipe with a sponge took care of it.

Cheryl

Dodge.
I think the only thing that kinda gets everywhere when I cook is just "grease" spatters.
Other than that I rarely get much of anything on or near the burners.
Most of my pots I use are 10-14" though and 2 burners are usually covered with a 14x23" griddle most of the time.

I just lift up the grate wipe it with a plain rag with just hot water, once a week I spray the stove top with the weimans cleaner polish and wipe it down which takes all of 30 seconds.
This is really the easiest stove to clean I have ever had.

Thanks deeageaux, you brought tears of mirth to my eyes in a LOL moment.

One unanswered question the OP asked or inferred relates to pans. Teflon coating or not is not relevant to induction. What matters is that the pan base has to be magnetizable. The induction cooktop does not directly heat the pan; rather, it induces currents in the pan base that heat the pan. This is efficiently achieved with cast iron or magnetizable stainless steel pan material. Teflon's suitability relates to how hot the pan is allowed to get, a factor independent of induction except that induction is so fast that the risk is higher of overheating.

(Note: Induction can induce currents in copper and aluminum too, but not efficiently without superconductive windings, so for now a lot of nice pans become obsolescent with induction cooktops.)

Many modern pans compatible with induction are layered in the bottom so that there is magnetizable material, heat spreading material, and a shiny stainless pan surface to cook on. However, older 400-series Revereware also works. Carrying a magnet when shopping (but not next to credit cards) can aid evaluating cookware.

kas

"As Ginny said, some induction units have timers."

This is a plus for us. If I can ever find a decent (per consistent reviews online) of a tea kettle that will work and suit the ergonomics we desire, it may not have a whistle. Setting a timer will prevent killing yet another tea kettle when the water boils dry after I have left the room. Don't ask....

Also the ability to "lock" the cooktop appeals. Perhaps gas has this also? If we ever have grandchildren, or the next buyer of this house will have children, it seems to be a nice feature. Except ... most kids are smarter than we give them credit for.

If you have an electrical panel smack dab in the middle of your kitchen, the big money will be to move that. You must have complete open space in front of it and it cannot be covered. Think of a space the size of a refrigerator. That is how much open room an electrical panel requires to be left open. Better get quotes on moving that to a utlity room or garage before you go down any road too far.

This is a good point. Although Alkvdb indicated that the box is a subpanel, there are still clearance requirements for the box.

The expense of fixing this will depend on how things are set up. I've seen a couple of different variations on older kitchen subpanels.

Variation number 1 is subpanel that was installed to feed a cooktop and a wall oven which were hard-wired to it. Fixing this might (let me emphasize "might") be simply a matter of removing the subpanel and adding a 240v outlet in the kitchen space where the stove will go, and placing it to allow sufficient clearance for the stove installation.

Variation number 2 is the "yikes" variation. I've seen this in older houses which had small service panels and in which, sometime in the 1970s, somebody took a stove's 240v feed and converted it into a kitchen subpanel that then provided circuits for a stove, appliances, wall outlets, and maybe lighting. Fixing that may require substantial rewiring and a lot more work and expense.

So, as Hollysprings says, get this looked at soon because it will really affect the budget.

Thanks, the house was built in 1995, it's installed to feed the cooktop. We have cupboards on either side. My quote was $275 or so to move it and have the electricity done.

This is so frustrating. I do hours of research on these stupid ranges as we can't do anything until we have a range (getting rid of wall oven across the kitchen to increase counter space) and I show my DH the GE profile slide in induction, and I get, "uh, looks like the one we have now" (we have a maytag electric cooktop, it's smooth and black, so it's the same I guess). I'm just so frustrated of doing all the leg work, and nothing gets done unless I initiate, make calls, get quotes. I think I need a break from this. Thank you for the advice, I appreciate all the time it took for your responses.

@aklvdb - doing all the leg work isn't bad, as long as the hubby doesn't exercise veto powers and gets picky. My hubby is very opinionated about everything. I told him to "show up or shut up", so he goes shopping with me to pick out the stuff for our new kitchens. It's really nice having him along, because some of his ideas and perspective are better than mine.

Thanks Cavimum. DH is not that opinionated, except with this range. He likes the Wolf. I also like it, if I was sure about gas, which I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic with our cooking style, our family life etc. He just likes the style, and that's that. He said I could get the induction, but I do want him to be happy too. I get that the profile doesn't have that wow that the wolf does, but lets be realistic here, what do we need?? I do the leg work, then he comes when I can't make decisions and to get his perspective. I even brought my dad along :) for another perspective.
Thanks for listening!

Look at the cooktop & controls configurations. That was the deal-breaker for the brand induction cooktop we chose. I don't want the large burners in the front, and we both wanted controls that were easy to see & understand for our aging eyes and brains. (Thermador)

We can get a much better price on a almost any other brand, but location of burners and the controls' ease of use are important to us. They all cook the same irregardless of price; it came down to us using it daily and what made sense to our thinking process. After all, we'll live with the thing for at least ten years before we downsize, so I won't cut corners there.

"I have heard about buzzing with the induction, which I guess is a big concern. Can anyone speak to that?"

Yes, I can speak to that. We have had induction cooktops as the primary cooking appliances in our kitchen for a dozen years and in that time have used about 25 different pots and pans on them. Among those pots, one whines/whistles/buzzes sometimes when a combination of factors converge. The main determinant factors are how full the pot is, the setting of the burner where it is placed, and (apparently) the viscosity of the liquid in the pot. It is not a brand issue, as the sometimes-whistler, a 1.3 qt Demeyere Apollo saucepan, is one of three Demeyere Apollo pots that we use regularly -- and only that one pot whines.

Induction works with an alternating magnetic polarity. The alternating frequency at a specific setting of the burner presumably excites a resonance in that speciifc pot when it is filled to a specific level to have that specific resonance. Do you recall your elementary school science demonstration of making a kind of xylophone with a line of identical glass tumblers filled to different levels of water, striking them lightly with the side of a fork?

It is a very occasional, and when those occasions occur, a very minor, concern.

Gary and Herring Maven...LOL!!!! (about nunyabiz)

Thanks 4 the laughs!!!!

Thanks again Cavimum, relooking at the burners on the GE, the big burner is only on the front. We have a 2 year old, and always try to cook on the back burners now for safety. That is definitely something else to consider. If I do a cooktop, we're down to the wall oven underneath it, which in my eyes is so much more expensive than a single range. Sigh.

Thanks herring_maven regarding the buzzing and pots. I barely remember the xylophone:), but good to bring it up, I can visualize what you mean.

Yeah hilarious, ha.
Never denied Induction is not easier to clean, the surface doesn't get hot and its flat glass. So naturally it is easier to clean.

Point is that gas isn't all that hard to clean either unless you are slob cook or get the accidental boil over.

10-15 seconds Vs 5 seconds is not much of a selling point.

The only selling points are its faster IF it is a high output (over 2500W) Induction burner and it is a better choice IF you do not have a natural gas hookup already and happen to have the proper electrical panel (40+ amp) to handle it.
Most Induction cook tops such as the mentioned GE have ONE induction burner that is more powerful than the average 15-18,000BTU gas burner, 2 burners about the same power and one that is virtually useless. For me personally I could not careless if my pot of water boils in 2 minutes Vs 3 minutes so to me at least anything faster/hotter than 15,000BTU is really of no value to me.

We also get several power failures/outages per year here due to Tstorms, Hurricanes and Ice.
With an Induction range we are stuck cooking on my BBQ outside and my camp stove.
With gas nothing changes, can cook just like normal.

My very basic gas range has the equivalent of 4, 2100W induction burners, there would be very little difference in side to side comparison with a 2100W burner.
Also even though Induction is FAR more efficient 85-90% Vs about 40%, the natural gas range will still cost less to operate in most areas.

I looked at Induction a couple years when we were looking for a stove but at the time was WAY too cost prohibitive.
Was going to cost several hundred dollars to upgrade the electrical panel and the cost of one of the few Induction ranges that were even available was more than double the cost of our gas range, plus we really wanted to get everything we could OFF of our electric bill.

Our bill 5+ years ago would be over $450 in the Summer.
We got a nice Furnace and central AC to replace our 28 year old but still working AC which saved at least $125 a month in the summer, we then replaced our dead hot water heater with a super efficient one, still electric but as efficient as gas which saved about $75 a month.
We replaced most all of our lights in the house with LED lights, not exactly sure how much that has saved but at least a few dollars per month.
Then added an extra R30 of insulation in the attic which helped considerably in the summer to keep the upstairs cooler for longer and cut energy cost several dollars per month.
We also got rid of our old Electric range, just regular old coil and that saved several dollars a month Vs gas which rarely cost more than $3 a month for the gas range.

Our bills dropped dramatically from over $450 a month to now the highest bill we have had since was actually this months bill which was $211 and that is even with adding my 94 year old mother in the house plus the electricity cost has gone up at least twice in the past 5 years and this was the hottest year on record with the most days over 100 degrees.

All things being equal from 5 years ago, no mother and same cost per Kwh the bill would be less than $175 Vs $450+.

So we opted for Gas for many reasons, insanely better than regular coil or regular glasstop electric.
Considerably less cost per month than regular electric and a bit less than Induction.
At the time (year and half ago) FAR less cost for the range itself, and far less for the hookup.

If cost were no object and I was building a new house.

I would still opt for a nice gas range and probably have a high output induction Hob (at least 3500W) setting next to the stove top or somewhere on the counter top.

Thank you Nunyabiz1, that is the draw of gas, is simplicity. I would hope that in 10-15 years, it would still be working and be able to do it's job. But why would my DH have to pick such an expensive gas range when I can buy a Bluestar at Costco for just over $2000?! Driving me crazy.

Red knobs....

In Canada, Costco sells the Bluestars for just over $2000 ($Can). On this side of the border, it is the NXR (the one that Nunyabiz has) that Costco sells for a little under $2000 ($US).

The choice between gas and induction is something that has been (and, here, it still is) being discussed. To me, it comes down to picking trade-offs.

I see the advantages of both the NXR/BlueStars and induction ranges, and go back and forth on all of them. For me, picking a stove comes down to a mix of trade-offs, one of them being budgetary.

The induction stove that most appeals to me is the Viking induction range. (You've seen Luv2putt's long thread on his racing red induction rnage?) I really like the set-up, the ability to get it with colors, the knob controls down front, the wide-open cooking surface. But, the cost strikes me as absurd. I likewise find the Wolf AG & DF stoves very appealing but the price puts my wallet into constricting budgetary spasm.

Nunyabiz makes an interesting point about energy costs. I can say that the energy savings trade-off is variable by region as well as by how much cooking and what kind of cooking you do. Right now, and for the next few years, at least, natural gas prices are low. That may or may not translate into operating cost saving.

If you feel like you have not yet done enough research, yet-- ;>) --- check out the link below.

When I say that the savings are highly variable, I am speaking about direct experience in my small mountain community. I live in town where utlities are supplied by a regional corporate utility of some size. I do a lot of cooking, so gas will have some cost advantage for me. Using the calculator from the linked site below, with electrical rates here being are a little over $0.10//kwh, I guestimated that a gas stove would save me about $60 per year over an electrical one. Folks a couple of miles away in the county, served by a rural electrical coop (which is economically raped by deregulation and Enron type manipulations that our legislature foolishly thought would be "competition") have been suffering with in the $0.27 to $0.49/kwh range. They will have an entirely different persepctive on the gas vs electricity thing.

I like the Bluestar/NXR type of stove's wide-open cook-space on top and the ability to put an array of big pots and being able to put any pot anywhere. (I do six large events here plus holiday dinners for crowds so I find the wide space appealing and useful where it might not matter to others.)

You can get something like that with the induction slide-ins (specifically the GE that alkvdb is considering and the Electrolux/Kenmores that stuck-out too far), but the cook-tops project out on the sides. This can make for issues of fitting and supporting the edges, and may add to the expense of putting in a new stove. (How's that for looping back to the original question?)

All of the foregoing being said, I'm still very interested in induction. The paper-trick mentioned by herring_maven is a minor but appealing aspect of the easier clean up of induction. For me, the "cleaning" appeal of induction is not so much stove-top cleaning but that gas produces more vaporous goo which means more and more frequent cleaning of the range hood, the walls, cabinets and etc. Another appealing factor for me, living and cooking at an altitude of 6000 feet, is that electrical stoves are not affected by altitude the way gas stoves are.

All of the considerations go into a mix that can make one's head trying to sort out all the choices. A friend of mine said she was thinking of just buying buy a Vita-Mix blender, making smooties out of raw food, and just skipping "the whole stove thing."

Here is a link that might be useful: Info on guestimating electrical vs. gas appliance operating costs

Hey JWVideo, I am in Canada, so Bluestar at Costco over here. I also quite love the Viking (saw the racing red in the post, beautiful!), but yes, budget. So much to consider. Thanks for adding the operating costs to the discussion :)

Re buzzing, my Kitchenaid is noisy. It clicks as the magnets cycle on and off at the lower temps, and it buzzes. Some pots buzz more than others. I have 6 different brands of pots, and they all do it at least a little. While I was quite upset about this at the beginning, now I'm used to it and it doesn't bother me. If the hood is on, or the stereo, I can't hear it anyway.

But if you can't try out a Kitchenaid in person to see if the sound bothers you, better to avoid that brand. When I posted about it last fall, several people wrote in that they get no noise at all. So I think you're safe with most other brands.

In all honesty, if I moved into a house that had a gas stove, the first thing I would do is switch it to induction. That's how much I love it. But as you can see from the various responses, many people still prefer gas.

Will your husband be the one cleaning the gas range? If not, I'd get whatever you prefer.

For me personally, If I could buy a Bluestar range at Costco for $2400 Vs any GE of any kind Induction or not from any where else I would buy the Bluestar in a heartbeat.

Cant go wrong buying from Costco for both price and warranty.

I have never owned a Bluestar but they do seem like nice ranges and most that do own them like them.

The induction vs gas discussion...yikes.

Love my induction cooktop for ease of cleaning, the turn off timers and other whiz bang features you get with electronics, which include
* the added safety of having a unit that turns itself off if something gets too hot (ie a pan left on the burner empty) or if there's nothing there at all (mine turns itself off after a few minutes)...
* turn off timers for things that are cooked via a timed process, like rice or pressure cooking.
* a warm up feature that rewarms leftovers in a pan to a certain temperature and then holds them at the temperature you specify (my Miele does this)
* Configurable features

And of course, no open fame, which means no accidental ignition of hot pads, sleeves, or anything else. Nice if you have kids cooking in the kitchen. And, it doesn't heat up the kitchen, which is nice for the cook standing in front of the range! If you're energy conscious, then it also saves on AC/cooling costs in the summer. And no combustion by products to vent, either.

Possible downsides:

* If something should go wrong, it's pretty much a given that my induction unit will be more expensive to repair than a gas unit.

* Power outage means you're grilling outside on the BBQ, but that might actually be the least of your worries.

* Buzzing--I do not even consider this, but am addressing it because it was mentioned. It's not the unit that buzzes, but the cookware. Depending on which pots I'm using, if I have three or more going at once, I might hear a low hum or buzz. Not loud enough to bother me, but it is there, sometimes.

Cooking ability: I'd say that cooking on gas and cooking on induction are pretty much even. Unless you're getting a really excellent gas range, you'll probably get better low temp control on induction--it's one of the things I love about mine, the ability to hold things at a really low temperature or simmer. It's just awesome for that. I love my induction unit and wouldn't trade it for anything--but if I was "forced" to cook with a good quality gas unit, I could do it and not be unhappy. It really pretty much depends on your preference. Induction is compelling to many people for the reasons I listed above and more--but it's not like gas is old school and obsolete. It is still a great way to cook, but for great control and power, you now have a choice whereas it used to be that you didn't. Gas was the only game in town.

As to the husband's preference, it's nice that he's included, but if you do the cooking, your happiness in this matter trumps his. You can compromise with him on something that matters a lot to him. If he's the one that does the cooking, then he should be the one doing the research and making the choice, but if he won't, then he'll be fine with whatever you choose. :-)

Enjoy the new range, and please be sure to report back.

Cj

Thank you all so much for this discussion. This is what I need, but am not getting IRL, so the back and forth has been great. I tend to research to death, then be upset when nobody knows what I'm talking about :) I think I'm leaning to induction, but as was brought up, the big burner is in the front of the GE, so not ideal. I think for gas, the bluestar would have to be it budgetary wise, most bang for your buck it seems. Have to look at the new Samsungs and KA I heard about in another thread. But maybe not the KA if I can't try it :) Thanks again!

You really want the big burners in the back? AFAIK, Whirlpool in the only maker with both large burners at the back. Check out the Whirlpool WFI910HOAS and Maytag MIR8890AS, both of which have the two small burners in front and the touch-control panel at the front of the cooktop between the small burners. I do not know for sure how Whirlpool has the Kitchenaid induction stove set-up --- it is really hard to tell form the photos available at AJ Madison. It might be the same as the other Whirlpool stoves (sans the cooktop mounted control panel) or might be more like the current Samsung NE69x series.

one medium burner at the back would be fine, to do our pasta, chili etc. Now thinking of cooktop wall/oven (Elux?)as I was so excited about the GE Profile until that was brought up, that I like the induction idea so much more than gas at this point in time. Oh, and I thought the other thread said slide in, not looking for a free standing with the panel at the back :(

And my DH, well, he won't complain when it's already in. So at least in this big long discussion that was already dealt with in a number of threads that I researched helped me to cement my decision of induction. The people that have induction seem to love it.
Thank you for helping me be a bit less crazy in this decision!