OH, I forgot--needs to be slide-in, without the controls on the back. It's what we have and what we want to stay with.

Not sure why I assumed anyone would know that :)

o.k., let's up the retail to $2500, since I see one I keep coming back to (PGS975SEMSS) is technically at $2500, but I've seen it in the high 1700s, which is more like what we could afford.

I've read to avoid GE like the plague, but this one has so many features we like--what is it about GE that should be avoided?

Maybe this will turn out to be my own personal little thread on my quest for a new range. Oh well, at least I'll have my notes in one place :)

And a question: what would be the bad thing if we got a stove with the oven controls on the back? I saw a Jenn-Air with two ovens, which would make a lot of sense for us because we are just 3 people, and we could use the smaller oven most of the time and save energy. But it's "freestanding", so it has the controls in back. Just for reference, it's #JGR8890AD, the Pro-Style series. There's another one in that series, but I can't see the benefit of it over the higher end regular-looking model. This one below *does* have less BTUs in the oven than the other--so much that I wonder if it's a misprint...10K vs. 18K?

Here is a link that might be useful: the two-oven range

I know what they say about a GE but I do think there are a lot of pleased people with the Profile. Another to look at that people seem pleased with is Frigidaire.

What is it they say about GE? (slightly panicked tone)

I'm about to pull the trigger on a GE Profile refrigerator, a GE (not Profile) range, and a GE OTR microwave! I do know that GE is looking to spin off its appliance division - is there something else I should know???

Are you located in Canada? If so, you can buy a BlueStar 30 inch range for $1999 at Costco. I believe that they are not available (yet?) at Costco USA. This is very solidly-built gas range, with simple knob controls. The only electronic component is for lighting the gas. Don't get this stove if you want touch-pad programmable controls! It doesn't even include a clock. I do like mine.

I've only had experience with one Kenmore/Frig gas range and one Kenmore/WP gas range since 1989. Both of these were mid-range freestanding stoves in the $1K range, bought on sale. Not absolutely TOL but one model down, in both cases. Price equivalents now would be more in the $1500 range.

I'm now very soured on the fancy electronic circuit boards used on all these types of ranges. Between the high heat of self-cleaning and the 14K Power burners, the boards do not seem to last more than 4-5 years. Great while they work, love the bells and whistles and infinite control that computer chip gives you. But replacement is currently running in the $375+ range for labor/materials! Not cheap and a real pain - I'm glad I'm retired, since it took two different boards and five separate visits in 2007 to get the stove working again. If I'd had to take all that time off work I would have been super-pi$$ed.

jkom, thanks for your post. I know what you're talking about because that's what went (twice now) on our Amana. Hmmm...I was thinking that maybe if we got the glass cover rather than plastic (the Kenmore Elite has glass), it might mitigate some of the problem of high heat and the control panel, since getting a BlueStar doesn't seem to be happening in the US right yet.

What would you recommend, do you think, given all your concerns?

Me, I'd recommend spending as little as possible to get the features you want along with a 5-yr extended warranty, then save up for either a Bluestar or Lacanche (my current two lusts). Or anything else that doesn't have electronics - Capital, American, Wolf, etc.

I've been cooking for over 40 yrs now. I've cooked 12-course Chinese banquets on an old O'Keefe & Merritt 9K range, then turned out great dinner parties on a Sears Kenmore with 2 PowerPlus burners, neither one over 14.5K. It's the cook that makes the meal, not the range! A great range is just another toy - pretty, shiny, glamorous - but it ain't why your friends like you, LOL. (Or at least, I hope not!)

Ah, I see you answered my question over here :) Did you stir-fry on the O'Keefe & Merritt? And I'm really not a form-shopper, so "prostyle" holds no allure for me.

So maybe I'll just get the Kenmore (I can get it for under $1500 this weekend) and the warranty and call it good. It has what we need and the warranty will cover the almost-inevitable control panel replacement. I'm not finding a non-electronics range for under 2K, which will make it for at least 5 more years and we'll see where we stand then.

Thanks for hammering away at me until the answer became apparent :)

Yes, I did stir-fry on the OKM. Not large quantities, nor a lot. If you really research Chinese cuisine, stir-frying is not considered the end-all/be-all technique. It's just one of many ways of cooking. And remember that it's only been very recently that restaurants have had these hugely powerful gas wok burners. Most Asians have tiny kitchens with wimpy LP 2-burner stoves, and certain foods are always either purchased from delis or eaten at restaurants.

Chinese restaurants have turned to stir-frying as an easy way of producing cooked food as fast as possible. Now they can just turn a knob to light a gas burner instead of having huge piles of wood stacked up, LOL. There's a reason why a typical restaurant menu will have 95% stir-fry dishes and only a very few steam/braise dishes. To concentrate on stir-frying is like reading one chapter of the Larousse Gastronomique and calling those few dishes the ultimate in French cuisine.

Like most Asians, my DH and I prefer braises with lots of gravy for the rice, crystal-simmering, claypot stews, or steaming as our choice of Chinese cooking techniques. These can be done on any stove. A high-powered one makes it faster, but no better.

I do think the Kenmore appliances offer considerable features for the money. I don't regret buying them at all. I wish you good luck with yours, and many good meals.

I am also considering the Kenmore Elite but have similar concerns about the electronics. Back in the day, Kenmore was considered a reliable brand for the price, and that idea has stuck with me - but lately I've heard (well, from one person, so who knows?) that their service is not what it used to be.

The other one I'm considering is the Kitchen Aid 30" slide-in, around the same price range. Any input on that? This Forum has such wide ranging view on KA fridges - I am wondering it the stove will be as controversial ;-)....

Anyone have experience or comments? Thanks all.

Weeeeelllll, as my DH and I have contemplated and calculated the 10 year ownership costs of each option, we're actually thinking that we'll go for an American, probably, rather than the Kenmore. I'm really sick of control panels. Once you factor in warranties etc. it becomes slightly less expensive for the next 10 years to own one American vs. two Kenmores or the like. And the grate pattern of the American will help make up for the lack of the third burner element.

Don't know if this will help you in your decision, momorichel. But back on your two choices: Do you mean the Architect Series? I haven't seen that one--the only thing is that it's slightly lower powered (but see jkom's post above :)), and where is the vent? There are some that have the vent in the middle of the cooktop. Don't know if that's where the KA vent is...?
I've also read reports of some of them falling apart (see the sears reviews).

But in general I'm beginning to feel like Mommie Dearest: "NO MORE CONTROL PANELS!" Seeing the American was like a breath of fresh air today. Solid, simple, *HUGE* oven cavity...DH is all for it. He likes the transparency of the technology (see below).

Does this help muddy the waters for you? :)

Here is a link that might be useful: interesting perspective on the American

My FIL recently bought a large American brand gas range for a house he rents out in a very nice area and the tenant LOVES it. She's had it about 4 months I'd say.

Flyleft,

Since you have done alot of the leg work I'm currently trying to do, do you mind sharing where you will purchase the range, as well as some of the specifics (model #, etc.). I too had thought of the Kenmore Elite #79443. Thanks!

Welll, flyleft: Yes, you have muddied the waters, but this may not be a bad thing. I was at Sears today, looking at the KA (yes, Architect series #KGRS807S) and when I asked the salesman about the electronic panel/self-clean melt-down issue that has been widely discussed on this forum, he said, "Oh, Kitchen Aid appliances are the ones I would buy for my own house, but I would NEVER use the self-clean mechanism - they always cause a breakdown"! He went on to say the same was true for the equivalent Kenmore Elite (#36703) and that, basically, you can't expect electronic control panels to hold up to high heat usage, as is involved in the self-cleaning process. He also said you can't expect things to last more than 5 years - "like they used to" - to which I feel like screaming. The fridge/oven/dishwasher we are replacing have been quite functional for over 30 years!!

I have not yet checked into American but I will - I am guessing it is a higher price point, since it's not on my low-end radar. I still like the way the Kitchen Aid looks, and the price is as high as I am willing to go - and the Sears guy did point out to me the advantages of it, e.g. the convection fan is built in, in a more solid way (sorry I don't have a better technical grasp of that, but it made sense at the time...).

The Kenmore Elite is in the running, but I don't like the look as well and honestly, I am not thrilled with either option, given what I am hearing and reading. I do not need a lot of bells and whistles, but I do need a functional range and I'd like it to look nice. Sheesh - is that so much to ask????

momorichel, I think you and I are the cusp of a new zeitgeist, seriously. Folks who aren't immediately comfortable with putting down 4K or more for a new well-made range, but who aren't destitute either and can afford better quality than the rock-bottom. We are getting sick of ranges built like Target boom-boxes, expected to be replaced when a shinier looking model comes in.

I'm really thinking the market is ready for an American-type range, maybe at a lower MSRP point. As *few* electronics as possible, no timer, and certainly no "self-clean", just good solid cooking (except for that nagging gas leak problem...) and good size oven.

Anyone listening?

p.s. I'm also wondering how many of the flameouts etc. I have read about on the consumer complaints site are due to weakening from using the self-clean. The control-panel breakdowns can probably be traced in their majority to the self-clean, but the catching on fire, turning itself on, etc...what are those due to? Are they avoidable if one doesn't use the self-clean? I'd like to see stats on that. We're not talking an ipod breaking down, we're talking house fires, and manufacturers should care enough about the stakes of what they're selling to track such events carefully rather than whitewash them, as virtually all of them do.

It's not just the self-cleaning feature that damages the circuit boards, although it certainly doesn't help. I hardly ever use it - maybe once every 2-3 yrs, if that. But on almost all freestanding stoves I've seen, the oven vent is located at the back, right underneath where the circuit board is located. Broiling, sear-roasting, or even just long slow oven braises, are all cooking that board at high-heat temps, sometimes for hours on end.

I have to think it's more the oven heat being the culprit than anything else. Our first Kenmore/Frig gas range had two PowerPlus burners but one was located in back, one diagonally across in front. I preferred having both PP burners in front, and our 2002 Kenmore/WP gas range is set up this way. So I hardly ever use the back burners at all, usually just for small pans when frying a single egg, or keeping a covered pan warm at a simmer. But the board died in April 2007, and purchasing a reconditioned board didn't work because it died in Oct 2007 (without my ever using the self-cleaning feature). At that point we went with a new board at full price, and a 2-yr warranty. So now I'm on some of the Lacanche threads, thinking seriously of opting for a Cormatin with NO electronics in 2009, LOL.

I'm a new joiner and having trouble deciding on a new range. I bought Ge Profile PBG975 from Sears...1st one delivered the oven gasket didn't seal...two repairman visits...couldn't fix. Sears sent a new one...same problem. I'm looking for a new brand. Intrigued by American or Electrolux, but for that money I don't want to have to buy again in 4 years. Anyone have luck with Electrolux? Thanks

flyleft the DCS manual clean is in the same price range as the American. I think the problem is now they all have computer stuff in the electronics and higher BTU's that can't take the heat. Doesn't that mean "get out of kit"?

Have you looked at Bertazzoni or 5 Star? Not under 2G but certainly less than the top named brands.

Flyleft, I love the way you think! Yes, we are definitely on the cusp, if only those in charge would hear us and respond!

Meanwhile, I am going to look into the Bosch, which is a little more expensive, but not as much as the American. I have a friend who loves hers; I'll ask her if she's used the self-clean mode. Some people on this forum seem to find Bluestars at Costco for 1999 - is that only in Canada??

Flyleft, keep us posted on your decision and thank you all for your input. I am still leaning toward Kitchen Aid but maybe I'll live to regret it...

Hey all--thanks, momorichel :) I sure wish I could find a killer deal on an American that would include delivery. The best I can find is $2400 w/350 shipping to the *driveway* (including needing a liftgate) and then we would need more help getting it in the door. The installation sounds interesting, too.

We found a Bertazzoni black 30" for $2500 delivered into the kitchen and we do the hookups (we're fine with that). What do you all think of that? The only problem we see is the *SMALL* oven; we have a 13" pizza stone we like to use a lot--the inside of the Bertazzoni is precisely 13"...we are thinking of taking the stone to the shop tomorrow to put it in and see if the door shuts. Then hearing of someone's $1700 offer on the Bertazzoni -- sigh...

padutchcook, we were looking at the Electrolux, but again it's got significant electronics...and some pretty unpleasant looking consumer complaints.

Bosch too has some unhappy results with its electronics:
This is from the consumer complaint website:
"My Bosch stainless steel convection range computer failed within one year causing damage to door parts and control knobs due to heat escaping at the top of the door during cleaning. Repaired under warranty without argument after waiting 2 months for parts to arrive. The computer has failed again within 3 months of the warranted repair. Bosch will cover the part but not labor.

It appears that Bosch expects consumers to pay for labor to replace their parts that fail prematurely. We expect years of service from products that represent themselves as high end performers. How many times will we pay $200 labor charges before we have to junk the $2000 range?"

Here's another:
"I had just finished heating up some bread in my Bosch gas oven when the outer door literally exploded--sending thousands of shards of safety glass everywhere. We were very very lucky indeed that neither myself, my husband nor our 9 month old baby (who loves looking at his reflection in the oven door....) were hurt in this incident. The most disappointing thing of all is the lack of any form of concern or even a response from Bosch or the store from where we bought it from.

I am sad to hear Adam's (from the Gold Coast) experience and the injuries suffered by his mother. Shouldn't Bosch be recalling these ovens that are clearly defective?"

YIKES! We ruled out Bosch because of this.

But I'd love to hear any and all thoughts on the Bertazzoni tonight...I'll be reading the threads...

Here is a link that might be useful: the Bosch page...

Yikes is right. Thank you again, flyleft and good luck with your search.

Flyleft, did you make a decision? Did you find feedback on the Berta?? I saw one on Ebay and it looked very sweet....

I am seriously going crazy myself - I cannot resign myself to any of the under 2K options as I research them AND I cannot see spending more than that for a simple gas range. I have literally been losing sleep over it!

The GE Profile is getting good reviews almost everywhere - oh, except from padutchcook above....anyway, I just don't like the look of it. Kenmores seem reasonably well liked also so I might end up there, but not thrilled about it...and maybe I'll follow JKOM's advice about spending less now and saving for later....but I tend to agonize over these decisions, so I end up living with things for a looonnnngg time....I don't want to be unhappy with a $2000 investment.

oh, and the Bosch and KA sound actually dangerous.

HELLPP. Anyone want to tell me what to do??? heh heh heh

I think I'll go clean out my cabinets and give this up for a while....

I wanted to share my latest range news. Sears approved a complete refund of my GEPBG975 and I bought an electrolux wavecontrol free standing range.(I wish I didn't have to have freestanding..but not enough money to gut my kitchen.) The switchover was today. I had to wait an extra 2 weeks as Sears had to order it. So far it looks like it has all the features of GE, but a few more bells and whistles, including more programing possibilities and very nice smooth sliding racks and a broiler pan and extra rack to be used with the pan for convection roasting. I like the rapid preheat and the instruction book is terrific and not made of newsprint.Also comes with a sturdy "quicklist" that is nice to put near the range while I'm learning the controls. I spoke to Electrolux beforehand...they sent me a cd to give me andvance instructions on how it works. A CD was also included with the range. It seems like a much sturdier and better made appliance than the GE. I like the center burner being an actual medium burner, rather than the oblong style of the Ge. The griddle can be used either as a grill or flat griddle on the left burners. I doubt I'll use that.

One of the things I've noticed right away is that there is not that initial startup odor from the burners or the oven when the gas is first turned on. (Like gas logs.)I had that every time with the GE

So,initially I give it a favorable report. I'll be doing a lot of cooking in the next few weeks, including making jelly, and will report back. I'm hoping for the best. It is wonderful not to be "shopping" anymore.

Oh, the gasket seal seems very tight and the knobs aren't hot, (warm when the stove is on for a while, but that is expected.)

Good luck! pdc

I'm also concerned about the electronics, so I grudgingly opted for the 5 yr. warranty. At least it will be serviced once a year for the first 5. Since I had to have a new gas line installed and the electric box changed, I couldn't go any higher on the range. Maybe if I start saving now for the next one......

padutchcook - thanks for the update and I hope you'll keep us posted on how the Electrolux works for you! good luck....

Yes, thanks for the update. The 975 and the electrolux were both on my list originally (pre-luddite-attack :)). Will look forward to the jelly report!

We have a deposit down on an American, just ftr. Through Dvorson's, although ACityDiscount was a close contender. Josh is definitely a character :) It ends up over $2k, but in the long run we think it will be less expensive/less hassle. I'm so sick of begging for decent treatment from warranty people.

AND we cooked our first stifry over a 70,000 btu (that's right :)) outdoor wok burner last night! OWWWHHHH yes! It was amazing. Got it through outdoorstirfry.com, a sweet little company run by an engineer who got sick of underpowered apartment stoves :). It was better than anything I've ever made on the range, and more fun too. We didn't even have the nerve to turn it all the way up, but we will start feeling more comfortable soon. It's SO fabulous. I wouldn't want to cook with a wok indoors anymore. It's also just a bit lower, so it's much easier for me to work with, as I'm only 5'3". It was SO much fun to do, and even better to see DD dig into vegetables and ask for more :) It's also just a good all-purpose burner--has a windguard, we can put a grate over it, and put a regular pan on it too. I also plan to steam dumplings there too. So that's always an option--get a stove that can do most things decently, and get one of this kick-*ss burners when you want to have fun :)

"He also said you can't expect things to last more than 5 years - "like they used to" - to which I feel like screaming. The fridge/oven/dishwasher we are replacing have been quite functional for over 30 years!! "

I have heard this several times over the last few months. Unfortunately, my refrigerator quit without warning over the weekend (9 yo Frigidaire Gallery) and that is what both the repair guy and every salesman I spoke with over the last couple of days have said.

But back to ranges. I ended up buying a GE975 about a year ago, and I love it. The second oven is a little disappopinting and because it is on the bottom (I really wanted the small oven on top) but outside of the inconvenience, it has worked well for me. I hope the American is working well for you - any updates?

Alexa

We've been looking at the Bertazzoni, GE Cafe, etc and don't want to spend more than $2500. Would much prefer something along the American, Blue Star, bertazzoni lines (but the oven on the Bertazzoni is too short for a medium-size turkey!!). I keep reading that folks got their Americans for about $2500, but the lowest price I can find on line is $3500.... what gives?

I am also looking to replace a gas range and considering a slide in for the first time. Have a older GE that has worked great, but am willing to consider other brands. Needs to be under 1500.00. Any suggestions.

I am also an owner of the same STINKY Amana range that has broken 7 times since I bought it 5 years ago. The only reason it did not break more times is that I failed to fix it a few times, not realizing it was still under warranty since I had 3 different warranties on it. The stinky Amana people refused to ever replace it and now, of course, it is no longer under warranty, so it sits, broken, in my non-functioning kitchen. In addition, my neighbors, family, and I have endured countless GE failures (microwaves, dishwashers, and ovens) so I have refused, until lately, to buy another. On my block, I can count 15 GE dishwasher failures within just 3 years, plus that many microwave failures as well. I hear they have improved, especially Profile (of which I currently own - microwave - and it has had a couple small repairs covered under warranty in the last 5 years).

Bumping this for staceyneil (and myself!) regarding more info on pricing for American Ranges. I'd pay $2500 right now if I could find it. What's the secret?