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mrprogrammer_gw

KitchenAid dishwasher won't mix detergent with water

mrprogrammer
9 years ago

Hi there! I just bought and installed a new KitchenAid dishwasher (KDTE104DSS) and after one successful half-load with a Finish Powerball tablet, the dishwasher is somehow refusing to mix the detergent with the wash water. I have tried the following types of detergent: Cascade Platinum Pacs (included as samples), Finish Powerball Tablets, and the "traditional" Cascade Complete Gel. All three have ended up on the floor of the machine at the end of each cycle as a soppy pile of goo.

I believe the water is hot enough (I run the sink before a cycle), I've checked to see that the filter is clear of obstructions, the tub seems to fill and drain properly, the control panel seems to be functioning, and the spray arms can rotate freely. If there was something wrong with the pump that drives the spray arms, wouldn't it be unable to fill and drain itself too? I'm genuinely stumped. Any ideas?

Comments (21)

  • xedos
    9 years ago

    "I believe the water is hot enough "

    You are correct.

    Call Whirlpool for a visit from their warranty dept.

  • grubby_AZ Tucson Z9
    9 years ago

    Just a few very general troubleshooting points:

    This thing has a high temp wash option. If that's lit and the water's too cool, then the machine is most likely broken, but the timer shouldn't advance if the temperature isn't up to snuff, should it? What does the water feel like when you open the machine in the middle of a wash cycle? Got a food-type dial thermometer? Is the lump there at that point?

    Are you sure the lower wash arm is moving (is it at a different angle each time you open the door)?

    Also are you sure the dispenser door is opening early in the cycle? This is also check-able by opening the dishwasher door a lot and looking. Another hint about possible dispenser door malfunction is does the tablet sit undissolved on the floor of the machine even if you toss it in manually?

  • dadoes
    9 years ago

    The pump does not mechanically drive the spray arms. They rotate via the spray force as does a lawn water sprinkler.

  • hvtech42
    9 years ago

    ALWAYS use the high temp option on these newer DW's, all that does it heat the water like older ones did. The only reason they are making it an option is because the energy star tests are run without any options selected. Grubby_me gives good easy troubleshooting advice (especially measuring water temperature in the tub) that is worth checking before you call for service.

  • weissman
    9 years ago

    Are you by any chance running a short cycle? Some of these detergent packs claim to only work on full cycles although in mine the Quantum Finish packs work fine with a short cycle.

    The other thing you can do is to just try straight powder detergent, no packs, and see if you still have the problem.

  • jakvis
    9 years ago

    Did you flush your hot water line before hooking up the new dishwasher ?
    You have described the symptoms resulting from a short fill.
    Most likely your fill valve screen is clogged and the timed fill is not allowing enough water in the tub due to reduced flow.

  • xedos
    9 years ago

    so - what was the issue programmer ???

  • mrprogrammer
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Whirlpool service tech arrived and measured the hot water temperature at 107 degrees. Briefly looked at the unit without disassembly or inspection, said nothing else was wrong with the unit, and promptly left.

    The manual obviously recommends a minimum temperature of 120 degrees. I am in a condominium and have already tried to get the water temperature increased, to no avail. Needless to say, I'm pretty worked up right now.

    So, new question: is there any way to work around a low water temperature with this type of unit? I get the impression that even though the cycle is running for 2.5 hours, the computer is introducing a fault that prevents the spray arms from shooting the (admittedly tepid) water on dishes. Am I stuck with a useless hunk of scrap metal in my kitchen?

  • weissman
    9 years ago

    Why can't you just turn up the temperature on your water heater a bit? This seems like a no-brainer unless I'm missing something.

  • weissman
    9 years ago

    Oh, I missed the part about being in a condominium. Does that mean you don't have your own individual water heater? Do you get a separate water bill or is water included in your condo fees. I'd demand that the board/maintenance company turn up the water heater - or do it yourself if you have access to it. You could also complain to the local health department that you're not being provided with adequately hot water.

    This post was edited by weissman on Wed, Sep 3, 14 at 20:04

  • mrprogrammer
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Everyone in my complex shares a set of water heaters in the basement, so water is simply included in the condo fees. This also means that it's a bit of a drawn-out process to make any sort of change. I've made the call to the HOA. I'll report back in a few days if this has resolved the issue.

  • dadoes
    9 years ago

    I get the impression that even though the cycle is running for 2.5 hours, the computer is introducing a fault that prevents the spray arms from shooting the (admittedly tepid) water on dishes. That's unlikely. In fact, I've seen documentation that the Normal cycle main wash period temperature on these newest energy-conservative dishwashers is considered 105ðF.àThe final rinse should heat higher. Water will spray if the machine's pump is running.So, new question: is there any way to work around a low water temperature with this type of unit? Yes, there are workarounds. You have a Hi-Temp wash option to increase the main wash temperature, and a Sani Rinse option to increase both the main wash and final rinse. You haven't clarified whether you are using those options. Have you read your user guide for details?

  • weedmeister
    9 years ago

    "the computer is introducing a fault that prevents the spray arms from shooting the (admittedly tepid) water on dishes. "

    What makes you believe this is true? This would imply that the pump is not running. Can you not hear the pump running during a cycle? If you open the door suddenly, is water being sprayed about?

  • mrprogrammer
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    After the tub fills, I can put my ear up to the door and hear a thumping noise for about 10-20 seconds, then nothing for about 30 minutes, then a drain, then it repeats. When I open the door mid-cycle I do not see any water being sprayed about, although when I put silverware with food on it in there it gets wet enough to clump up a bit. I placed bowls face-up and level in both racks to test water distribution. Water did get to the bowls, but neither one filled up much more than 1/4 way.

    Also, follow-up on the water temperature: I was able to get the HOA to increase it to 118ð at the faucet, and used the Hi-Temp and Sani-Rinse wash options to get it up to 121ð in the tub (see link below, note that I did test with the probe not touching the heating element before snapping the photo). So I think I can rule temperature out as the primary issue.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Photo of water temperature at 121°

  • jakvis
    9 years ago

    Place coffee cups upright in 3 areas of the upper rack. Do the same on the bottom rack. Run the D/W for 30 minutes and then see if the cups are full. If not you have an issue.

  • dadoes
    9 years ago

    30 mins? The cups should fill much quicker than that. 3 to 5 mins probably should be enough.

  • sparky823
    9 years ago

    Have you tried any or all of the cycles to see which ones you can hear spraying? Seems the pump is not running. Just call service again, turn it on and tell them to have a seat. Let them see it go through at least to the main wash where you hear no sound for 30 minutes.

  • mrprogrammer
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    **Time-Sensitive Update!** Repairman is here right now and says that the unit will not even run water through the main wash arms if the temperature is less than a certain threshold (from what I can gather, 115 degrees F). Is this true, or is it just a bunch of baloney to deny me warranty service?

  • dadoes
    9 years ago

    I'm not intimately familiar with the latest models, don't have service docs on them ... but IMO that sounds ridiculous. If that would be the case, then MANY people who don't run their kitchen faucet to purge the supply line of standing cool water would have non-functional KA dishwashers.

    I do have a service doc for some slightly older models. There is a fault code listed that triggers if the water supply is below 65ðF ... but that's far less than 115ðF. Also, the documentation only says that a fault code is recorded for service techs to reference and instruct the customer in such a case to run the kitchen faucet to flush the line before starting. It does not explicitly say that the unit won't run.

  • mrprogrammer
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you very much for your prompt reply. I told this to the repair person, and he then (reluctantly) proceeded to physical testing of the machine. He found that the pump motor and logic board had failed and needed to be replaced. Finally I have the ultimate answer to the original question--"the detergent won't disperse because the pump and control board have defects.

    Just a warning to all other purchasers of KitchenAid/Whirlpool/Kenmore/Amana products in the future: be tough but firm with the repair person and tell them that the temperature of the water not being an issue if you want warranty service. They will attempt (and sometimes succeed) to deny you service if you aren't.

    Thank you everyone for your insight!

  • jakvis
    9 years ago

    Ask the tech how you pre-heat the water when you use a delay wash? I think he is giving a line of BS