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CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

Posted by shabmerch (My Page) on
Tue, Jul 17, 12 at 23:02

So - I'm considering a freestanding BS or CC 36" AG range.

I want open burners, and feel comfortable that both CC and BS offer powerful enough and simmerable enough burners to satisfy my needs.

However... the (gas) ovens is where I'm struggling at.

BS - I've read that the ovens are good, but they're hot. I'm looking into that further.

CC - please help me here!
I've read that it's not hot BUT:

1) Racks and the Broiler:
I've read that the manual version's racks are sturdier than the self-clean version, but they are poorly placed - such that it makes broiling difficult.
Question: Does the self-clean version have the same problem with placement under the broiler? (And are the racks as wimpy as some people say? I guess I could check that part out myself)

2) Uneven heating:
Is the CC's oven only "acceptable" when it comes to even heating? Is BS's much better? (Yes, I know it's hot outside). We use the oven to roast veges (and occasionally meat) almost every day. (We will also have an electric oven to handle the more delicate baking). But still... would like to have something better than "acceptable" if possible, given the money being spent...

And finally - other than hot on the outside, (which might be solved with a good hood), are there any complaints about the BS's oven?

So.. to summarize - BS vs. CC when it comes to the gas oven....
My understanding is:

BS's oven is hot on the outside, but functions better than the CC on the inside as an oven (even heating) and broiler (due to rack placement).
Is that a summary you agree with?
(Putting aside that sexy rotisserie for a moment ;-)

Thanks for your time


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

The problem regarding placement of the racks in the manual clean oven were resolved quite some time ago.The self-clean oven never had this issue. Are the easy-glide racks in the Capital as good as the Wolf? No,absolutely not. But it is as good or better range in every other respect. Are the Capital easy glide racks wimpy? Not IMO. I own a self-clean CC.

I have read two reports of uneven heating in the CC. One was a cooling fan not working properly and the other the glass seal on the oven door was broken/improperly installed.

The first was resolved to customer satisfaction the latter I did not read a resolution post from the owner. Maybe there are more but that is what I recall.

IMO the CC oven is as good as any range oven other than the electric oven in Wolf DF. I have posted something akin to the CC oven being acceptable vs the Wolf electric and Gaggenau wall oven. I place all other gas ovens in pro-style ranges in this class. Or worse in the unacceptable class:)


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

I can't comment on Bluestar (other than that I understand it to be a very fine product) but I am one of the posters who had problems w/ my CC oven. It was a minor problem that required an adjustment and it is now performing beautifully. I couldn't recommend it enough.
I also find the broiling capabilities to be outstanding.

After spending the $ on this range, I'd be very vocal about shortcomings, but I think the CC is an excellent product and a fine culinary tool.

Attached is a link to my 'resolution' post in the 'Capital Culinarian Problems' thread.

Here is a link that might be useful: LINK to RESOLUTION of CC Oven Problem


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

Thanks BrightFutureFoods and deeageaux for addressing my concerns.

BrightFutureFoods, do you own a manual or self clean? If manual, then would you concur with deeageaux that the problem with the placement of racks near the broiler (either being too close or too far), has been resolved?

And deegeaux, how do you like the rotisserie function? (someone complained that the bird cooked crispy on the outside and undercooked on the inside)... have you had better success?

(I'm real close to eliminating all my concerns on this one! :-)


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

I can address your question regarding the rotisserie. I believe the poster you referred to was speaking about a turkey. Turkeys are too large to use the broiler for the whole cook. You need to either start or finish with the broiler. For most of the roast, you have to use the oven. The rotisserie action will allow the bird to self-baste.

Chicken, on the other hand, can be under the broiler the whole cook. It only takes about an hour and it comes out very well. You can also let the bird(s) come to room temp before putting on he spit. That helps ensure the inside will cook evenly. I also truss the birds.


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

I have a manual-clean 36" CC. How can I help address your concerns about rack placement? We're not massive broiler-users so I'm not sure I can help too much but I'm happy to try. I broiled thick lamb chops fine -- the rack-placement did seem squirelly to me at the time, as if I had to get them too far from the broiler, but that thing gets so hot it was more than fine. I don't even really remember the trauma about the broiling height while the memory of more-perfect-grilling-than-I've-ever-achieved stands out well. I'm happy to measure something if that will help. It seems to me that just the thickness of what you happen to be broiling will make all the difference though.

It may be important to note approx when your machine was bought as I think they may have changed the racks and/or be thinking of doing so in the future. Mine was purchased approx, um, Jan-Feb2011 I think?

I must say I don't love the racks on my oven, but I'm willing to believe there is a long learning curve with them. They are certainly not wimpy. I was under the impression the rolling racks were standard on all machines, but I was wrong and this misimpression was wholly my fault -- unfortunately. I had failed to do my due diligence on the matter; nevertheless I was and continue to be disappointed. Again, I have no justification for this though! Still, I do find the racks more "discontinuous" in placement than I'd like.

However, as I've learned to preheat the oven better than formerly, this rack placement becomes less important. That is, preheating enough and churning the air around with the fan result in no discernible issue, to me, about food cooked at a mid-level height that strikes my eye as less-than-optimal. That is, I would prefer more placement options to jibe with some ingrained sense of where those cookies 'should' be placed, and yet, I don't see any problems attributable to their ultimate placement. When I've encountered problems, this seems more to do with my fear-of-preheating.

Oh yes, I also broiled a lasagna top and that seemed to have to be placed too low but my unease was very wrong. Even as low as I had to put it, that thing browned the top in seconds, perfectly, deeply, gorgeously. Wow. That was amazing. My efforts in a former life at browning lasagnas were always a disaster, waiting forever, nothing happening, sometimes burning, usually, just melting into a mess with no brown ... so awful I rarely take the time to brown a casserole top, but using the CC is an entirely different kettle of fish, so to speak.

Let me know if you want me to measure something please.


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

I have a 48" Bluestar with a large and small oven. The oven doors get warm on the outside, yes. Many here (with kids, pets, etc) have posted that they don't find it to be problematic.

As for performance, I have never been anything but amazed at how well both ovens work. Everything I have cooked in them has come out brilliantly regardless of placement in the oven. From lasagna, to venison jerky, to challah, to roasting my own peanuts, to braised pork shoulder, to marshmallow, to meringue, to sponge cake to candied pecans.

I consider the broiler to be equally high performing. Everything I have put under it has browned very quickly. It's almost more like a salamander. From Nachos to creme brulee to fritatta to steak.

Just my experiences.

-Stooxie


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

Sigh.. just when I thought I had it all resolved ;-)
Stooxie - my concern with the hot doors is not so much getting hurt, but rather.. dealing with the heat expended into the kitchen. I'm coming from the perspective of just having experienced 3 consecutive days of 95 deg. in NYC, and in our homes here, there isn't much cross ventilation...
Do you find that to be a problem, even with a good overhead vent?


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

I put my hand on a BS that had been running at around 350 for about an hour, and it was hot. As in, yank your hand away and say "ow!"

Also, I don't remember seeing any safety-type complaints about the CC compared to the BS, with spontaneous fires, gas smells, ka-booms and the like.

I do think BS has better burners, IMO, but I wouldn't want the oven in my house.


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

But as always I think there's a time component to these assessments. I understand, maybe, the BS is different now from formerly. I know CC is tweaking things constantly and they make those things one by one so changes could potentially be implemented quite frequently, I think (someone will correct this last claim if it's wrong).

Thus ... I think if you're worried about the oven door issue you should find a store with a live oven of each sort, specify temperature and time on and go place your very own hand on each. Or something. Point is, there are just a lot of variables to juggle, so direct comparisons are difficult to make fairly.

And BTW, if you do find stores with these live machines in them, you should ask when the machines were acquired. I imagine stores may well show units for many long years and that door problem fix was probably relatively recent.

-Why do I feel like we should all sign off with a moniker that labels our own appliance ownership? For the record, I have a CC, like it with reservations, think Capitol's CS is running as fast as the Red Queen. over.


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

I've had a perfectly great working Bluestar for 5 years now. And I bake a fair amount of bread and pizza at high heat. I've never noticed any heat build up at the top of the oven door, or handle area, or knobs. Only near the bottom will it get hot. But it's never been an issue.

The top burners have been fantastic, and I appreciate the star pattern burners of various sizes. No matter how low you attempt to turn down or adjust another brand's burners, if it has 3 times as many flames as the Bluestar burner, it's going to be putting out 3 times the amount of heat of the smaller Bluestar burner set to simmer.

I also like that smaller burner for small sauce pots, even when set on Medium or High, the flames will not engulf the small pan as would be the case with a C.C. Some of the other brands have too small a simmer (Wolf and others) and it just creates one small hot spot. But the Bluestar simmer is just perfect.

The oven bakes evenly, I don't have to rotate the cookie sheets and the I.R. broiler is flush with the top of the oven- and I use that all the time as well. The racks slide on thick chrome rack guides (versus dents in the sheet metal oven sides of some ranges) and the lower one is on a gliding bearing system. I love that the entire stove top is porcelain cast iron, no thin sheet metal. I've never had a broken or cracked ignitor either, and if they get dirty I clean them with a toothbrush and some baking powder.

Having had an older model, at one time I had a problem with the oven door hinges sticking, but Bluestar sent me a replacement door with the newer upgraded hinges. So I have only good to say about this range.


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

"...the flames will not engulf the small pan as would be the case with a C.C."

Practically speaking, you would never need to turn a high BTU burner on full with a small pan to be effective. The CC burner from hole-to-hole is 4.75" and edge-to-edge is 5.25". The inner ring points inward. All you need is enough of a flame to not engulf the pot. To that end, you have the full range of the burner at your disposal to accomplish that. And that's on every burner. My smallest saucepan is 6" and it boils very quickly. At medium to medium high, I'm guessing that it's getting more than 8K BTU but way less than 23K. When I make a small amount of oatmeal, a cup of water will come to a boil before I'm even done measuring all the dry ingredients. And that's without engulfing the pot in flames. While you might make the case that a pot smaller than 5.5" might be an issue, the reality is that the smaller the cooking vessel, the less heat you need to get the job done. JMHO.


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

I've been paying attention to the time it takes for pots to boil their contents and am discovering that the shape and content of the pan matters a lot. This is probably not news to an engineer/physicist, but I hadn't appreciated how important it is. I mention it here because jiggling one's cookware may be a whole lot more cost-effective than changing out the stove! Or even making buying decisions based on it.


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

alexr-
Some of the other brands have too small a simmer (Wolf and others) and it just creates one small hot spot.

Just to clarify I don't think Wolf has the semi sealed burners with the smaller simmer burner anymore. They are all sealed and are the stacked burners with a simmer burner under the regular burner. It is the full width of the top burner. See the link below. But if you have a half way decent pot that conducts heat well, it won't matter anyway.


Posted by aliris19 (My Page) on
Fri, Jul 20, 12 at 13:46

I've been paying attention to the time it takes for pots to boil their contents and am discovering that the shape and content of the pan matters a lot. This is probably not news to an engineer/physicist, but I hadn't appreciated how important it is. I mention it here because jiggling one's cookware may be a whole lot more cost-effective than changing out the stove! Or even making buying decisions based on it.

Exactly. That is why claims one burner produces the most even heat is silliness. It all depends on what you are heating.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wolf sealed burner


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

Discussion seems to have veered off-topic, but i'm going to pile on anyway!

The CC burners simmer fairly well, but it's definitely not it's strong suit, let's be honest here. It's not a delicate simmer w/o a simmer plate but I use ALL of my burners and don't want a dedicated simmer burner (although I can understand why some would and think it should be an option). The burners handle small pots just fine flame-wise, although sometimes my smallest saucepan will tip over into the large spaces on the burner grates. It's not enough of an annoyance that i'd want Capital to change the grates as I like the big, beefy cast grates as compared to the daintier ones like Thermador and others use. A small pan grate "option," however, would be nice that you could swap out just like the Wok grate (which is fantastic BTW).

To each his/her own and enjoy the cooking!

-BFF


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

I've noticed on C.C. that the outer flames shoot out at an angle not straight up- especially as the gas is turned up- and that is also why the flames can engulf the small pans.


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RE: CC vs. BS - when it comes to the oven....

Here are a couple of photos of the burner under my 6" 1.5qt saucepan, the smallest I have.

The flame on high and is obviously too high. But this is as bad as it gets on this pot. There are sealed burners out there that put out less BTU and are worse when it comes to engulfing the pot.

This is with the knob at 50%. The outer flame curls inward then straight up to the bottom of the pot before curling back out from hitting the pot. This is enough to get the job done. This is anything but engulfing.

Anyway, back to the oven. I think the main issue that most people have with the rolling racks on the self clean is that they are different. At first I disliked them too. But over the 10 months I've had to use them, I've realized that they're actually pretty good. Certainly not wimpy, but definitely unconventional.

I use the rotisserie a lot, so I'm constantly handling the racks. It's gotten to the point where I can easily remove the rack with one hand. I still have to use two hands to put them back in, but I'm so used to it that it's not trouble at all. Here's a quick video, literally.

http://youtu.be/LmiV1NCmLSs

The other other thing that bugged me at first was that they only glide out half way. But then it occurred to me that in 10 months I have yet to have any pan juices slosh onto the oven door, floor or me from the rack. Since these racks only come out half way, they stay level. When I had the conventional racks in my old oven that came out 3/4 of the way, the rack always sagged outward from the weight of the pan. I've had hot oil and pan juices slosh on to me. I also don't miss the high pitch noise of metal on metal. Over all, I'd say these racks are no better and no worse than ball bearing glides. Just different. But they are certainly better than conventional metal on metal racks.

For the rack position under the broiler, I use one of the top two positions. If I'm just using a sizzle platter, then I use the top rack position. If I'm using the included broiling pan and rack, it's usually the second position.

Overall, I think the oven does a fine job. I've had no issues with it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Removing rolling rack with one hand.


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