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Gas Line to NG Range Question

Posted by cooks1818 (My Page) on
Thu, Jul 21, 11 at 22:15

I would like to install a 48" all natural gas range-I have existing 1/2" gas supply line. Is this large enough? Installation specs for ranges-Capital (Precision), Blue Star, American Range, FiveStar, G.E. Monogram vary-some say 1/2" is OK others ie Wolf specify 3/4 inches.
Is a 1/2" gas supply line OK?
Thank you very much!!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

1/2" is too small for the range you're thinking of.
I've got a Bluestar 36" 6 burner range.
While the gas inlet on the back of the range is 3/4", the supply line to the range is 1".
Bluestar recommends that the supply line be 1/4" larger than the inlet.
I'm sure this is standard for pro-style ranges.


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

Thank you so much for responding, willtv. Forgive me but what is meant by "gas supply line?" Is this the line located inside the wall from the gas source (meter) to the exit point outside of the wall? Or from the wall to the range?
I ask this because I am getting conflicting stories from Blue Star GE etc
Thank U!!


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

Cooks, The supply line runs from the meter through your house. Your gas appliances, water heater, boiler, range, etc. are fed by tapping into this line.
In my house the supply line is 1 1/2". The lines that branch off of the supply line are smaller depending on what appliance they are feeding. In the case of my Bluestar, the line that branches off of the supply line is 1".


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

cooks - it all depends on the demand an appliance will need - in your case 110,000 to 175,000 btu's

and,

your home's gas piping system and where the demand is located within the piping network.

The piping system must be sized to correctly supply the demand for all appliances running at one time to their full output. The more demand a unit has further from the meter - the larger the pipe has to be to adequately supply the volume.

You need to consult your plumber or gas fitter for a system evaluation to see if your home will handle supplying this beast.


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

Antss my plumber comes this Tuesday. I suspect that I may not be able to install the 48" judging from the existing gas appliances (gas oven/broiler, 30" cooktop w/grill) but we'll see. It is disappointing cause all of these 48" ranges are so amazing.
Thanks again!


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

Have your plumber give you an estimate for running a dedicated supply line from the meter to your range. If he has attic access, it's not that big a deal to do, and will let you have your range. Don't forget though that a 48" range will need a pretty powerful (and spendy) ventilation system (possibly with make up air), so plan that at the same time you plan your range so they work together.


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

Hey, willtv, your 36" Bluestar really has a 3/4" connector on it? My 48" V1 Bluestar has a 1/2" NPT nipple and we did 3/4" all the way to it. That's what all the documentation and sales material said to do. The line is 7 WC so that's more than the 5 that is required. It is a home run back to the meter.

Works great. I wonder if something changed from one year to the next.

-Stooxie


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

My house is on a slab-also meter is far away from kitchen. I might have to install a slide in or drop in cooktop & oven both NG. I hope I will be able to do these with the 1/2" gas supply line!
Thank you, GreenDesigns yes a new fan is in order no matter what I install.


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

Stooxie, I crawled under my Bluestar to check and it looks to me that the flex hose feeding the range is 3/4". It's possible that the inlet on the range is 1/2" and that the flex gets reduced at the inlet but I'd have to pull the range away from the wall to find out and, as you know, it weighs something around 400 pounds so that's not going to happen.
In any case I love this range.
It is, as someone on this forum describes it, a box of fire.


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

When you are speaking about pipe, I assume you are speaking about iron pipe. I have had no problems running a Garland six burner and oven with 1/2" gas line. Same for our current Viking range.


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

I'd start with the spec. At least a couple of the models you mentioned -- maybe all -- have pretty good, detailed manuals available on-line. Certainly the BS RNB (I've read the manual plenty in the past year, and had a 36" RNB installed this spring), but not only BS by any means. Once you've got an inkling what you actually want, it's probably not a big deal to consult a plumber (one who does gas) about whatever mods you may or may not need to work with the range. It may be that what you have is fine, and that the only question is wall-to-stove and hookup, but I'd identify a product first (or 2 or 3 finalists) and see what the spec says, and then -- if needed -- engage in problem solving.


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

It's worth mentioning that if anyone is checking the size of their piping by measuring the outer diameter you are not getting a correct reading. The OD tends to be a "size" bigger than the ID. For example a 1/2" iron pipe will measure about 3/4" (a little under) if you just use calipers on the outside.

-Stooxie


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

Different gas suppliers use different pressures in their supply pipes. That explains how a 1/2" supply line can be sufficient in one location and not another. If the 1/2" pipe runs at a higher pressure, it may actually end up supplying more gas than a 3/4" one with lower pressure. The distance from the meter also factors into how much gas will reach the outlet, so this isn't a one size fits all pronouncement. A local plumber with a gas fitter endorsement will need to perform the calculations appropriate to your local pressure and length from the meter.


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

GreenDesigns-Thank U! This probably explains why Capital-I spoke with their tech-says 1/2" gas supply line is OK for a 48" NG range-& Wolf says absolutely not. My plumber will do an assessment.
An American Range 48" utilizes almost 190,000 BTUs Wolf also.
I think I want to get a couple of opinions before I decide.
I will go with a slide in BS or AR cooktop & a 30" gas wall oven if it is a complicated project to upgrade the 1/2" gas supply line.


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

These manufacturers are typically talking about the flexible supply line between their product and the wall. They are usually 12-30" long max.

GD is right, BUT, natural gas supply in the U.S. doesn't really vary in delivery pressure by a lot so don't get your hopes up by thinking you can boost up the pressure to make up for smaller pipes.

LP gas is a different story. It is typically delivered at 2-3x the pressure of NG and it's volume can drastically increase with a rise in 2-3" of water column.

BEFORE daydreaming or discussing this any further you really need an assessment of your piping system and find out how BTU's can be delivered into your kitchen with the current setup. Choose appliances that fit that amount, or upgrade the pipes and choose what you want.


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

And don't forget ventilation. 190,000 BTUs is pretty much double the furnace output of a median house.


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

Antss-Plumber here today with GC. He said that "he would bet his paycheck" that I have 3/4" gas supply line supplying the kitchen. The gas supply line then reduces to 1/2" as it branches off to the appliances. He suggested opening a very small area of drywall to confirm 3/4" pipe. Worst case he can get it into the house via the 100 gallon water heater in my garage (near kitchen) which he says has 3/4"
I became a little concerned when neither one of these gentlemen knew what 7 W.C. requirement in the Wolf specs meant.
I will continue getting more estimates-I will get a quote from additional plumbers/gas fitters re running a gas line from my meter to the range installation site. I am a little skeptical at this point.
Is there such a thing as a "gas engineer for residential projects." Is this overkill?


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

One might guess that 7 W.C. means 7 inches of water column. This is the pressure above atmospheric pressure of approximately 34 feet of water column.

kas


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

Correct, WC is water column. With natural gas 1 PSI = 27 WC. Most residential houses (as I understand it) are about 20 PSI coming in stepped down to 2 PSI for the meter. It's still 2 PSI coming out of the meter which is then regulated down to 1/4 pound. That equals roughly 6.75 WC. The regulators are supposed to keep a constant pressure on the output side so 2PSI (aka 54 WC) is plenty.

Since the pressure is mostly constant the only thing that can effect the flow is the size of the pipe. Technically you could achieve a similar BTU output by jacking up the pressure to about 1/3 of a pound (10WC or so) but plumbers are loathe to do that because it's non standard. With natural gas it's hard to argue with that logic.

Curiously my old cooktop was the same way as cooks1818 just described. 1/2" pipe was all I could see but once we ripped up the floor, sure as shootin, it was all 3/4" that was stepped down for the last 18" or so.

-Stooxie


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

GW friends thank you for this info!
Can I assume that if a 3/4 gas supply line is installed to my new 48" range the pressure (when measured & confirmed) should be exactly as specs-7"W.C. Does everyone who has a pro style range upgrade the gas supply line?


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

Exactly? It should be close. The range will itself have a regulator on it to keep things constant inside it. It will probably be set to something like 5WC so as long as the supply side is greater you should be fine. The documentation will say what the pressure range should be.

As for everyone upgrading? No sense in buying a fire breathing dragon if you're going to starve it! :)

-Stooxie


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

When I got a pro-style range 9 years ago, I didn't know from gas pipe sizes and WCs. The plumber hooked it up to my existing gas line from my previous gas range and everything worked fine.


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

I wish my installation situation was that easy- U R correct though-I will be turning this over to experts-but I just want to understand some things about installing this "fire breathing dragon."


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RE: Gas Line to NG Range Question

For a 36" Capitol w/6 23,000 btu burners the stove itself is nippled with a 1/2" The flex line should be 5/8" and my plumber dropped a 3/4" down the wall to it.


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