Well, FWIW, I have used a couple of different Bosch 18's in rental properties abroad where they seem to be more commonly used. Gotta say, I love the little nippers. We were discussing this issue a few days ago -- scan topics below -- and another suggestion was a single dish drawer. I'd prefer the 18" Bosch myself.

Hopefully someone who owns one will chime in. And I think they have reviews for them over at AJM. Good luck.

On E'bay there is a Miele Futura Dimension Series G4570SCVI 18" dishwasher. It is a cutom panel open box floor model. $999 with free shipping.

Better than $1449 plus tax.

Plus in a small kitchen having the entire undercounter run one color makes the kitchen look bigger.

BTW "if someone does comes into my life at some point." Life is not a romantic comedy but don't be a negative Nelly, it is a turn-off to almost every potential partner. So you will use this Miele dishwasher until someone comes into your life :)

Now my sidetracking from being a life coach is closed back to being an opinionated Appliance Geek:)

Here is a link that might be useful: Ebay LINK

You crack me up deeageaux! I ck'd out the Miele on ebay. The seller has zero sales or purchases. Looks like an individual & not a store that can be contacted. Too scary to hope it all turns out good w/out a hitch! Unlike the other co. in CA, w/ the American Range. Hundreds of sales & could contact them.

The reason I'm not wanting to spend $1K+ on a dishwasher is because I've decided to up my budget to get a 30" Capital Culinarian, I think thanks to you! I also like your idea at having a panel ready DW for the run in my small kitchen. W/ the kitch being so small, that's a good idea. Thanks!

I actually didn't think I was being negative w/ my statement, but I can see why you thought that. I'm a pretty positive person, but I'll try to be more conscience of my word choice!

MizLizzie, thank you for your information. I do hope someone w/ a recent 18" Bosch, will speak up.

I purchased my $5k rangehood with external blower for $900 including shipping on Ebay from a guy with zero feedback.

But I am a kind of if you don't shoot you can't score kind of guy.

But if something went wrong there is Ebay buyer protection, paypal resolution, and credit card protection.

There are two other local pickup only Miele 18" dishwashers if you happen to live near there.

Back to my rangehood. Guy originally wanted $1700. I made him an offer of $800 through ebay email then he counteroffered $900. But this was from recently bankrupted and dissolved Independent Hoods. You can't expect the same % off for a Miele dishwasher.

Maybe you should make an offer where you think the risk of having to file a compliant with your CC or Ebay/Paypal is worth the savings.

I messaged the seller w/ a couple of questions. We'll see. I'll let you know what I do. Have you ever had to use the Buyer Protection? I didn't see the other 2 when I searched. Will try again later. Thanks for your suggetions & info!

The hood is my next question!!

I bought a Gagg steam oven through ebay from a well established liquidator about an hour from my house.

I picked it up myself and did not notice it was covered with rust underneath. I emailed the seller after I got home that the listing did not mention the rust. He agreed to take it back.

Another time I won a painting in a no reserve auction with an approximate street value of $1500 for $185. It was a private seller with 100% feedback on almost 200 transactions. I emailed him two weeks later after I paypaled payment and he claimed the maid accidently put it in the trash.

Then he did not return my money. I filed complaint with paypal. The paypal rep had me email him again through the paypal system. He refused to respond for a month then paypal gave me my money back.

bicyclegirl,

I saw that Miele sold today.

Did you buy it?

Unfortunately, it wasn't me. I saw it sold last nite too. Oh well, wasn't meant to be mine. I'm going to keep my eye on ebay for another one. If you come across one, let me know. I still have a little time to get that. It's the same deminsions as the Bosch so shouldn't make a difference w/ my cabinetry.

Are you familiar w/ range hoods? I'm looking at a Vent-a-Hood. It's very quiet! I'm having a hood built & will need this to be inside that. I say "the guts". The one I'm looking at is VBH228SLDSS for $1057. On my quote sheet is says "CVR 28 3/8 600 CFM WM LNR INS SS" I guess that's their description of it? I'm still hoping to get the 30" Capital Culinarian all gas. You have a Culinarian, don't you? Will that be enough CFM's for that range? I was talking w/ a different appliance store & that guy told me that wasn't big enough for my range. He said it was too short? That it would stop in the middle of the range instead of going to the end? I think he was talking about depth, but could be wrong. If you're as knowledgeable on hoods, I'd love any feedback. I keep meaning to post a thread on GW, but just haven't had time. i really haven't had time to research hoods either. You've been so great w/ your information & I really appreciate it.

I have a six burner self-clean 36" CC.

I have a 42" W x 24" D hood with 1400 cfm remote blower.

Ideally my hood would be 27" deep but I have a smallish galley kitchen. A 27" deep hood wood look like I bought a way too big hood at a liquidator and forced in there :) So I sacrificed a little performance for aesthetics. I wok at least once a week and use my CC hard, I checked the ceiling last night in front of the range and found no greasy residue.

You have said you have a tiny kitchen so a 27" deep hood would not work for you but the next best solution would be 36" wide and 24" deep. Therefore you would want a 34" wide insert not the 28" one. 600 cmf is sufficient. My 1400 is more than necessary but a nice luxury to have.

I am not a big fan of VAH. Difficult to clean. Whenever some salesman tries to sell me "magic" or " miracle" product I am naturally skeptic.

Best by Broan is what most Kitchen Designers use in your situation. The Best CP35I369SB is the insert for a 36" custom hood with a 600 cfm internal blower and can be delivered to your door for less than $850.

I will keep an eye out for an ultra premium insert on the cheap for you :)

Great information deeageaux! I've not read anything about hoods, so thanks for the knowledge. Vent-a-hood is all Fergusons (large old reliable appliance co. here in Austin) sells. The girl turned it on & it was very very quiet. I don't want anything loud, so thought that sounded good. But, I'm up for one that will be cheaper! You are correct, my kitchen is small & I am a little concerned about the hood I'm going to have made will overwhelm the kitchen. But, it's such a cool looking hood. Are you saying for my tiny kitchen, my completely finished hood should be 36" w x 24" d? Or, is that the hood "gut" size that will go inside my custom hood? I'm going to have to make a mock hood to see the size & make sure it's not too overwhelming.

By the way, where did you see the Best for $850? I was on AJ Madison & it's $978. I may be getting other things there, so they mite be able to go down on the price. Please keep an eye out for a premium one for me tho! Heck, on any of the appliances. I have not placed the order yet. Am making my decision on places after I get one more bid from another online place. I think it's called Elite Dist.?? They're out of the Dallas area, so will have to pay tax, where w/ AJ, I don't. But, Elite has the CC 30" for $4K. Best price I've found so far.

Thanks again!

36" x 24" is the finished wood rangehood.

The guts, Best CP35I369SB or another insert, are a bit smaller.

Cheapest place for Best CP35I369SB is in link, and for a few dollars more there is one on Ebay if you don't like the store.

The specs are 2 sones to 12 sones at 600cfm. Most of the high end hood manufactures are cagey about sound level.

I take it this would somewhat louder on medium and a lot louder on high/ 600 cfm.

Here is a link that might be useful: LINK

This post was edited by deeageaux on Thu, Jul 11, 13 at 20:45

Here is one of the better ones.

Prestige Power Pack UIB34600

I think this one should be roughly the equivalent in terms of noise to VAH but better in terms of actually venting and ease of clean.

Below it is $1003 it is a few dollars more at AJM.

Here is a link that might be useful: LINK

Eurostoves.com ,despite its name, is one of the top Capital dealers in the country. And they are the East Coast distributor for Modern Aire, arguably the best pro style rangehood out there. I say pro style because I am discounting the aesthetic value of some of the artisan hoods made by numerous mom and pop shops out there.

Trevor from Eurostoves used to post a lot here and from time to time he ran promotions for a Capital Culinarian range and Modern Aire hood. I would him a call at 877-232-0007 and see if he can give you a deal for a CC and MA insert.

I started a message to you a little while ago & never got it sent. I started searching hoods since I had no idea what a sone was! If the Best is loud, I'd rather find another one. So, thank you for doing that already! I can't find the sone level on the specs for the Prestige tho. I looked up the VAH website & will say it was a great site for someone to educate themselves on hoods! Just like you said, it said I need a 36x24! So, there you go! But, it says they're actually easy to clean. Take something out & put it in the dishwasher, tho not sure it would fit in an 18" dw! Why do you think it's difficult to clean? It is one very quite hood! So far, you've been right on the money w/ your advice & knowledge, so will take whatever you say as good advice! I'll research hoods this weekend. Just curious, what do you do that makes you so knowledgeable on appliances? Is this just from your research for your kitchen or are in a business that deals w/ appliances? Whatever you do, you know your stuff!

While I have you here, I'd like to pick your brain one more time...for now! On the CC, I'm not totally sure what I'm going to do for backsplash behind the range. It comes w/ the island trim that's 3" high. Do I need to have the next height up if I don't have a backsplash there? I'm sure I'm putting something up, but haven't thought that far ahead. It also says the current power needs to be 20 AMPs. Do most houses have that amount? I hope I don't need to add more. That will take my budget up even more! I guess I need to call my electrician!

Thanks again!

I hadn't seen your last post before sending my message. Thanks for the info on Trevor w/ Eurostoves. I'll see if I can reach him tomorrow. I'll let you know how that goes.

I don't work in the appliance industry.

My research into my own renovation turned obsessive compulsive. I went to friends and friends of friends houses to test ranges and hoods(by making the host family a meal) and then went to distributors who had live ranges as well. Plus the reading here and elsewhere. After you are done I take it you will be able to give some good advise to friends and family on appliances and kitchen renovation.

There was a guy a while back on chowhound.com that did a sound test between his first home with VAH and his summer home with Prestige. He found Prestige was .5 sones less. There was a lot of debate about ambient noise, the accuracy of the equipment etc etc. So I just said around the same. tried googling to find the thread but can't seem to find it. On the actually venting and cleaning that has pretty much been consensus.

Have the guy at Fergusson show you how you take the thing out and clean it. Maybe they have simplified the process but getting to the "thing" was not so simple.

I don't know about the 20 amp thing. I think standard is 15 amp and I think my kitchen guy just plugged into the old socket that was servicing the old range but not 100% sure. I am pretty sure Trevor at Eurostoves will know or he will say something like " I have sold over 1000 Culinarians and no customer of mine has ever come back to complain that the CC has special electrical requirements." I mean it is an all gas range with few electrical needs. And mine has the motorized rotisserie.

BTW I did not recommend Prestige the first time because their hoods are so expensive I keep thinking their inserts must be as well.

Standard drywall is fire rated at 1200 degrees for 1 hr.

Then there are some rated even higher, I think called Type X.

So you can use the CC with island trim with drywall above it. You just don't want a flammable backsplash.

I have the island trim with stainless steel leather print sheet above it.

This is from GW poster john.com

A hood by nature will present you with another cleaning task. I have a VAH and no experiance with others.

I think all VAH's use the same design principal of their Magic Lung so pretty much the same cleaning routine will be used.

The hardest part to clean for me is the shell of the hood itself. It's just plain uncomfortable to bend as needed to clean inside the hood.

All hoods use some sort of filter that will need cleaning. VAH uses air velocity to spin the grease to a contaiment area, the blower housing. This collects most of the grease and cleans up with 409 cleaner and paper towels. Some grease will remain on the fan portion, the squirrel cage blower wheel. This unit can be frustrating to remove for cleaning but shouldn't need to be done all that often. Some degreaser and a soft brush works well here.

Many choices in filration methods to choose from each presenting their own problems.

Maybe a reverse engineered approach is called for. Choose your cleaning style and then look into hoods that can accomodate that style.

All in all I wish I didn't have a hood to clean but it comes with the territory I figure.

You so rock! 1st of all, I love the leather look SS! That is nice. Is that from Capital? it wouldn't go w/ my cottage kitch, but it's really cool. By the way, so glad you have a little OCD!!

You are right, I will be able to give some good advice on here after all is said & done! Most of that is coming from you tho. But, there are great threads that are so informative. This is my main go to for most info. I get confused as it is from all of the info on here, but add other forums & it's info overload!! So, thank you for your knowledge.

I know that VAH is different than most other hoods having some magic lung & " squirrel cage blower wheel". Can you tell me how you clean the other types w/ the grate type filter covering the entrance? Do all you do is pull the filter out & clean that? No need to clean up inside the hood like the guy above says w/ VAH? Or, is that something you have to do w/ most hoods?

I'm going to try to call Trevor today. It would be nice if I could get a sweet deal! I'll let you know how that goes.

Have a great day.

Is that from Capital?

No, it is special order from THE purveyor of couture goods Home Depot.

I have some nice stuff but I am not

Do all you do is pull the filter out & clean that?

Pull baffle filters every couple of months and stick in DW.

Every other time clean what is visible underneath hood.

But maybe I am not

BTW DID YOU TALK TO TREVOR?

This post was edited by deeageaux on Tue, Jul 16, 13 at 22:39

Great minds think alike! I was just thinking about you tonite. My new job is keeping me off this site...well, most of the computer now! I don't like that! Don't want to stop the momentum!

Is that you? Love it! I believe I recall something about Mr. Clean in another thread awhile back, not sure if they were referring to you or not, tho!

I went to another store this past Saturday & they carried the VAH's, as well. I think the only thing I don't care for, is they don't appear to have the mesh filter type things over the opening. It's just completely open & I think that looks cheap. Apparently they are very easy to clean...well, the mechanism is! You just throw it in the DW. But, I can see where the inside of the hood would be hard to clean. Anyway, still haven't had enough time to concentrate on that right now.

I called Tevor last Friday, I believe, & he couldn't offer me any great deal. He returned my call while I was at my new job & it was hard to talk to him, so couldn't try to wheel & deal! I did, however, find a 30" Cap. Cul. from a place in Dallas for $4K! That is, however, if I get the fridge, hood, & DW from them. They don't carry Bosch, but I believe he said he'd throw in the Miele for $1000. Not 100% sure on that, but believe so. I just wasn't going to do that at the time but now I'm thinking maybe I will. I do have to pay taxes, being in Texas! That bites! I was on Ebay tonite - you got me hooked! - & there was a miele on there. I want to say they were asking $1K, but $180 for shipping. If that's the case, I'll get it from some other place that'll give that to me on a package deal, & hopefully get it for $1k...or better, less! On the ebay listing, you can make an offer to see if they accept it, but if I do that, I'm going low & more than likely they won't take it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained! I'll let you know how that goes!

Good to hear from you. I'll be back sooner than later. Still more questions!!

this convo here between bicycle girl and deeageaux is very helpful! i live in austin too and bought from fergusons. didn't choose VAH because i wanted to easily pull the baffles out and pop em in DW. plus my research here showed that VAH was overrated. But now, i'm thoroughly confused on dishwashers. can't decide btw bosch, asko, miele. don't mind spending the $$. Don't use a lot of plastics so don't mind if dishes come out a little wet. Just want CLEAN dishes, quiet, and reliability. ANy thoughts? is Miele really the way to go?

forgot to say that short cycle would be nice too..3 hours was way too long with our old DW, but we did manage.

Welcome KC,

Bosch, Asko, and Miele are all European type washers without heated dry and will all take a little extra time vs American dishwashers with heated dry. Maybe 15 minutes or so.

Miele will take about 2hr 20 minutes if using pots n pans on heavily soiled dishes, 1hr 30 min if using sensor wash on moderately soiled dishes, and about 34 minutes on the turbo wash for lightly soiled dishes. Add 15 minutes or so if you chose extra dry option.

I think Miele is the way to go if you want CLEAN dishes, quiet and reliability. Particularly, if like 90% of Americans, you have hard water. It is my understanding that Austin has water that varies greatly up to and including very hard water. So you want Dimension with automatic water softener or higher. The 18" are all a version of Dimension. Bosch is a little more quiet, maybe 2 db , for DWers in same price range and does have manually operated water softeners in their TOL $1200+ Bosch 800 Plus dishwashers. But overall, including reliability and cleaning ability, Miele is preferred.

A poster on another thread was willing to pay a big premium for a shorter cycle that included a DW with CLEAN dishes, quiet and reliability. Wanted Miele Professional that can get heavily soiled dishes clean in about 23 minutes. Not as quiet as TOL residential Miele though and cost $5-$6k.

I just ordered by ventahood, 48 in model, on the recommendation of a chef in a local test kitchen. It was indeed quiet but I haven't focused on cleanup as it is still in its box on the garage, waiting for installation. I believe I saw a YouTube video demonstrating the cleanup.... Didn't look hard, but it certainly involved more than a wipedown with soapy sponge. I selected the bluestar but again no experience first hand with using yet, just remarkably good and patient customer service during the sell cycle , based on the responsiveness of about twenty email exchanges.

caree, i've heard great things about VAH & am going to call them myself to ask a few questions. The only thing I wasn't thrilled about is that they don't have anything that covers the opening of the vent. You're able to see all the way up into it. That being said, you'd have to stick your head up under it to see all of the way up there! So, maybe that won't be a problem. I recommend going to the VAH website & surfing thru it. They have some great information. Apparently, the one part that needs cleaning on a regular basis snaps right off & goes in the dishwasher. Every so often, you'd want to wipe the inside down to get the grease in there cleaned up. Not sure how often, but that may depend on how often you use it. Here's the video I saw on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zAEnXdFhvM

After you get yours installed & used it, I'd love to hear what you think about it.

Thanks.

thank you very much!!