Return to the Appliances Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Do I need a speed oven?

Posted by alerievay (My Page) on
Sat, Jul 5, 14 at 18:11

I have decided to go with an induction cooktop and single oven. I also started looking at speed ovens, because I want an appliance that can function as a microwave and as a second convection oven (for smaller baking jobs, including bread and roasted vegetables and smaller amounts of meats, such as bacon). I visited a different appliance store today, and the salesperson told me that an ordinary microwave convection would probably fit my needs just as well, and at a much lower price.

Why would I need a speed oven (other than the obvious roasting a chicken in 30 minutes, etc.)? Is it worth the money? I was leaning toward the new Bosch speed oven at $1799, for what it's worth.


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Bumping this up, due to the spam attack.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

There has been quite a bit posted here in Garden web about speed ovens. You can do a search on the main appliance page, (hit your browser back button to go there), then, AT The Bottom of the page, type in speed oven in the search box,
(the top search box is useless)!!!!!

You can also goggle "speed ovens garden web".

Anyway, I've had my Elux Icon for 8 years now, and we use it a lot!.
It does potatoes, Yams, etc in 14 minutes instead of an hour, (Including Preheat).

I've done turkey thighs, small pork roasts, U name it.

I use it a lot as a microwave too.

It does just about everything our large oven does, except very large things, and the Elux does not broil.

If it ever goes out, I would replace it in a heartbeat!!!!

HTH's

Gary


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Gary, it would be great if you would write a cookbook for speed ovens! (;


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

The Electrolux has 134 built in recipes.
It tells you step by step what to do.

I will check to see if those recipes are in the Operators' Manual, & if so, post a link to it.

Gary


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Thanks! I read a lot of the old threads, but I was still a bit hesitant. There doesn't seem to be a lot of love for microwave/convection combos here, other than speed ovens.

Oh, and I find it kind of strange that people love Electrolux here, and I've never had any appliance sales person (at 3 different stores) suggest it to me as an option. I actually really like the Electrolux Wave-Touch oven, but it looks like the speed oven is a different trim level (?). The speed oven will be directly above the single wall oven in my kitchen, so I do want them to match.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

The speed oven is from the Electrolux Icon line, so you'd need one of the Icon ovens to match it. They are a bit more expensive than just the regular Wave touch, and function the same but have a totally different look. Even though they aren't called Wave Touch, they still have the Wave Touch controls. If you with the "Designer Series" speed oven model E30SO75ESS you would want to stack it above the E30EW75GSS wall oven. If you prefer Pro style, you should stack the E30SO75FPS over the E30EW75GPS.

I think the Electrolux speed oven is one of the more under-rated products in the appliance industry. I was considering a speed oven a few months ago and I decided against it, but if I got one this would've been it. I think they came out with it in 2003-2004, but like the rest of the Icon line they never really did a good job marketing it. Then they came out with the regular Electrolux line in 2008 and pushed that hard with all the Kelly Ripa commercials, moving Icon even farther into the shadows.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Back in 2006, when I bought our Elux oven and speed oven, they offered more styles than they do now.

They had the Elux, Elux Icon and the Icon had 2 styles, "Pro" and I don't recall the name of the other.
Most of the difference was in the handles & I wanted them to match, not only each other but also our Elux wine fridge.

I guess now days your choices are a lot less than in 2006?
We do see folks using a combination like a Wolf oven and an Advantium Speed oven, and they like it.

"Most of us here in "Garden Web" are not into the "Matchey Matchey Thing" and we tend to chose "Function over Form", rather than the other way around. (Your mileage may vary, of Course)!!!!!!

I have a Miele Dishwasher, and A Jenn-air fridge, so I have kind of a "Mixed Kitchen", (so to speak) too!!

Gary


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Thanks again (especially for the model numbers!).

I'm not concerned with everything matching, but I do like stacked appliances to match. Just a personal preference! Otherwise, I probably would buy the floor model Miele speed oven I saw this weekend. :)


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Actually Electrolux has more styles now. Back in 2006 they only had Icon, not the regular IQ/Wave touch line. I know because that's when around the time I was shopping for ovens for my remodel. Now they have regular Electrolux offered on top of the same 2 Icon styles they always have.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

alerievay, Are you doing a kitchen redesign, or just replacing appliances?

The reason I ask is that we purposefully did not stack the oven and the speed oven.

Both the wife and I are in the kitchen a lot together, and without the oven & Speed oven being stacked, we don't get in the way of each other when she might be using the oven and me, the speed oven.

It also allows you to install both the oven and the speed oven at what is the most comfortable height for you.
Also if it ever needs service, (oven or speed oven), it's a lot easier to remove a separate oven or speed oven than a "Stacked pair"~~~~just something "Else" to think about.

A couple of reasons why I like my Elux Speed oven:

(1) I have had it for 8 years and except for a screw coming loose that mounts the handle, No problems !

(2) In the 8 years I've had it, I have never had to remove the standard turntable tray, to swap with some other tray.
I use the standard tray for everything, Speed cooking, Microwaving, Convection baking, grilling,~~~~You name it!

If you look at some Advantium posts, they recommend building in a storage area close to the Advantium to store the various trays and accessories, so "as far as I can tell", the Advantium does not have a "One size fits all" type of tray, and I'm too old to recall, "Now what tray do I have to use for "This & That"!

(3) I like the "Step by Step" interface that is displayed in the readout.
(Example), bake potatoes:
I chose potatoes from the menu, It asks how many, I answer, It then tells me to remove food from oven and it will prehead. It beeps at me after preheat, and tells me to install food in the oven. Then it beeps when it is done, & asks me if I want more time, so I stabs the taters with a fork and either enter more time, or remove them and hit stop and the speed oven cools down.

Gary


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

We are doing a sort of partial remodel - keeping the original (80+ year old) wall of cabinets and sink, changing all appliances, and adding new cabinets on one wall. The floorplan doesn't really allow for separate built-in oven areas without major concessions that I don't think I'm willing to make at this point. I definitely see how it would be worthwhile to put the two in separate locations, but I think our particular layout makes more sense with the stack.

I think we could theoretically put the speed oven in the island (a Miele might be the only option in this case), but it would be directly across from the wall oven, which I don't think would benefit us.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Re the Advantium trays, it's easy. Glass for pure microwave, metal for everything else. Just like the dishes you'd use for microwaving or ovening. The glass tray is 16" in diameter, and there's heat coming up from under it on speed mode, so swapping it out protects it from breaking.

I don't know if I can add much to why to buy a speed oven, since I don't use mine to its full promise. The other day, I was following a recipe (bad idea) that called for potatoes cooked a certain way, and they weren't cooked through at all! And I didn't have time to start over, but they were peeled and had shed some starch and i thought they'd get icky if I zapped them, so I speed cooked them. That way they got a little roasty and were still moist and not-weird inside. Having the option saved my dish. But that alone doesn't make it worth the money.

I'm pretty picky. With the Advantium, chicken (which was highly talked up by other Advantium owners at the time) is leagues better than purely microwaved, but nowhere near as good as oven roasted. There are just some things that do better low and slow. That said, if you're getting home from work at 6:15 and have to get the kids to choir practice by 7:30 on your way to the town meeting where they decide whether or not to put a bypass through your yard, and you want your family to be nourished with a hot, homecooked meal, it could be a lifesaver.

Short version: I don't know of any dishes that are better for having been speed cooked, but when you don't have time, speed is unparalleled.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Well, (as usual) good info pillog.

It does make me wonder if the advantium does taters differently than the Miele or the Elux thou.

I recall a post or 2 where you "seemed to indicate" that potatoes done in a regular oven (at the regular time of 45 mins-to an hour) are superior to those baked in a speed oven, which only takes 14 minutes, (including preheat).

Myself, I can tell no difference between them, or Yams or Sweet potatoes cooked both ways, but @ 72 years old (come July 14th), I make no claims about a "Golden Palate"!

We have served Speed cooked taters many times to guests, we usually do Corned Beef and cabbage and baked potatoes on St Patrick's day, and several other parties/year, and at least,
(to the best of my knowledge), I've never been asked it the taters were "speed cooked".

I've never done chicken in the speed oven, but turkey thighs, I've done in it, I would be "Pushed" to tell the difference between them and some done in the regular oven.

One place I find the speed oven excels is in reheating hard to reheat stuff, poultry, fish and particularly French fries.

Nuking them makes them all come out gooey and even reheating in the regular oven, they don't come out as well as the speed oven.

For Popcorn fans, The speed oven is great with it's popcorn setting, it even gives you step by step instructions, alto in this case You MUST Use the proper elevated shelf to get fully popped corn.

The defrost is another nice feature with step by step instructions~~~~You enter what you are defrosting and now much, it sets the time, even pauses and tells you turn the item over or whatever, With a guy my age, that's really handy!!!!

Gary


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Again, thank you all. This is really adding information I didn't get (or retain) from the other threads!

The speed/convenience aspect is really important to me. It's why I'm getting induction and why I've incorporated other tools like a pressure cooker and a sous vide. We are very busy as a family, yet my goal is to sit down to a home-cooked meal every night (and we do pretty well with that).

The salesperson from my original post, who was really well-meaning, basically said, "you won't find speed ovens in commercial kitchens." Well, yes, but that doesn't mean it won't fit in well in my kitchen when I don't have an hour or more to bake potatoes.

I do think you guys have convinced me to get a speed oven. And I'll probably buy Electrolux or Bosch, depending on which is cheaper when I'm ready to buy.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Congrats on making the choice. A speed oven is definitely worth it for speed! A bit of warning.: Induction doesn't cook faster. If you're boiling something you can heat your water faster than many stoves, and you can get a pan hot enough for searing fast, but actual cooking is about temperature (low, moving simmer, boil, sear, fry), and that is pretty constant. Induction is fab! Just don't expect more of a difference than you're getting.

Your salesclerk was wrong. Speed ovens started in commercial kitchens. Check out TurboChef.

Gary, I still think baked potatoes are superior to speed cooked, and speed cooked are superior to microwaved, same as chicken. I think you misread my post. Speed cooking my underdone potatoes (recipe called for boiled and steamed)--which were getting diced for a side dish, not served as is--allowed me to just put them in a pie plate and let them cook. If they'd been microwaved, they would have had to be separated, and the smaller ones done for different times than the bigger ones, and rotated and all. The speed option was far superior, and only took about seven minutes since they were half cooked when they went in.

One of the things I like better about oven baked potatoes is that they seem to kind of relax over time. The steam works its way out some, and the starches let go a little. Or something. Doesn't happen with speed baked. That doesn't make speed bad. Just that I prefer oven when I have time...

And, Gary, I wasn't maligning your food! You've only told me about dishes that were as good as oven in your Elux speed. I said I hadn't heard anyone claim that speed cook was superior to oven. Today's the first time I remember you talking about the better reheating for fries, etc. And I definitely see how for anything that's not quite right in either a regular oven or a microwave could benefit from speed, which is both!


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Thanks for that clarification. It didn't sound right to me, but I didn't research it. Mostly because it was sort of a red herring - who cares?

And I'm sure induction will be noticeably faster than my current renter-grade gas stove (that tops out at 9k BTUs). :)


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

It will be faster to boil as pillog mentions, but once water comes to a boil, it stays at 212F regardless of how much eat you throw at it~~~unless you use a pressure cooker!

Likewise if you're sautéing something, if you get it too hot, regardless of the heat source, you will burn it , at least on the bottom.

Frying's the same, yep it will heat the pan faster, but then you "Must" as with any cooking device, control the heat, or you will have "Chrispy Critters"!!!!

So induction gets the pots & pans hotter faster, (in fact pay close attention when you first start using induction), It's soooo fast it will "Sneak up on ya"!!!!~~~~~~but once the pot/pan has come to temp, it takes the same time as your old gas stove, (assuming that thing can boil and fry, of course)!!

Good luck with your decision. We love our Induction unit and it was the folks here in Garden Web, where I first saw the idea of induction, got curious, investigated, and finally purchased~~~~~Maybe the best purchase we ever made, followed closely by our speed oven.

So who says "You can't teach an old dog new tricks"?

Gary


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Al...
I have the advantium speed oven and love it!
You do have to switch the trays as mentioned above but is not big deal.
I can use it in the microwave only mode I can use it in convection mode or combination thereof
Reheating pizza is amazing as the pizza comes up crisp and soggy and tough
I can use it as a convection oven to make perfect casseroles.
I use it in the stack with my Wolf oven and many people don't even realize they are two different brands
 photo IMG_0484.jpg
The speed of and is a very helpful tool


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

"Reheating pizza is amazing as the pizza comes up crisp and soggy and tough"

Say Whattttt??????

That sounds like some of those frozen pizzas that wife brings home, Yuckkkkk!

Gary


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Dodge - sorry - my iPad mutilated what I was saying -
Usually, reheating pizza comes out soggy, tough and awful but in the Advantium, it comes out great
It is crispy and tasty - I would never know it was re-heated.

I can assure you, we do not have any frozen grocery store pizza in our house. We either make our own, or order from Anthony's Gourmet Pizza, Pizza House (both local and not chain) or occasionally from Whole Foods.

In any case, never a good idea to post late at night or crack of dawn from a phone or iPad! LOL


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Yep!!
You probably caused a sales loss of "about 951 & 3/8ths" advantiums!!!

Unsigned


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

a2gemini - I'm assuming that's the Monogram trim on your Advantium? It's the only trim level I like on the Advantium, but I can't really justify paying more than the cost of the Bosch or Electrolux ICON.

It really does look great with your Wolf oven!


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

I think the short answer to the question is No. You don't absolutely need a speed oven. I have an Advantium, and I would say that 95% of the time I use it as a microwave oven. But it does come in handy when I want to make baked potatoes. The other time it's useful is when we're doing big dinners, like for Christmas and Thanksgiving and you need an extra over. I'm glad I have it, but if I was on a tight budget, I would have let it go.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Val- yes it is the monogram and thanks!
I do remember someone bought the non monogram and the monogram trim but I don't remember who it was.

Dodge - gulp GE might come after me on that typo.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

here's the thread about swapping the monogram trim onto the less expensive "profile" version, which saves $300 or so overall.

i'm considering doing this as well; don't know if it also works with the recently redesigned Profile model.

Here is a link that might be useful: Advantium door/handle mods


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Thank you for this!


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

So, complicating matters, I called a local store today and learned they have both the Miele Masterchef speed oven and 30" Masterchef oven for 25% off (floor model sale). This is significantly more, but not necessarily budget-busting more, than the Bosch or Electrolux. I know those are well-loved ovens on here, but is it worth putting $6000 worth of ovens in a pretty moderate budget remodel?


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Worth it? If you just adore the Miele and are thrilled that the sale makes it within reach, go for it.

If you think there's a good possibility you may move within five years, give a good think to if it's really really what you want to do. If you'll get at least five years use out of them, and want them, go for it.

If you're not cooking every day, and not massively persnickety about your appliances, save yourself some money (example: I cannot abide the controls on the Masterchef, but other people love 'em. If you're happy either way, and there isn't some other must have feature you're obsessed with, you're not persnickety. Wanting even heating and accurate temperatures is normal, not persnickety).

If the idea of saving the money makes you sad, and there isn't anything else you want to spend it on--that is, if your savings are healthy and you don't have debts (mortgages and student loans don't count if you can pay them without ever questioning if you have it), and would just blow it on shoes if you didn't buy the Mieles--get the Mieles. If not blowing it on the kitchen will give you a kitchen you're perfectly happy with, and that frees up money to pay off your car, buy a car for your kid, or fix up the bathroom that you can live with but really needs work, add to your savings or pay down debt, save it and get the B or E.

Or give the difference to charity and thank your lucky stars. And if you have enough to buy the Mieles (because you really want them) and give the same amount to charity, do that!

Are Miele ovens worth the price difference, no matter what the level of remodel? Only if they're worth it to you. Bosch and Electrolux make good appliances. There is no need to spend more unless you really want to. And there's no reason not to spend it if you have the money and really want to.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Buy the new Bosch walloven. I want someone to review it.

Not very helpful, I know :D

Do note, however, that Miele has fixed the temperature problems previously complained about on the forum so you don't need to worry about that.

I doubt anyone here has baked in all those ovens enough to compare performance. Miele makes more parts in house than most other manufacturers so in theory it will be built to a higher quality standard and last longer. Though if it does break, repair costs will likely be higher than the other 2 brands. Bosch and Electrolux have nothing comparable to all the MasterChef programs though Electrolux does have a "Perfect Turkey" button that has been well reviewed by others (my range has it but I've never tried). Miele has a wider variety of modes compared to Bosch and Elux giving you more control over where the heat is coming from. Miele has a rotisserie unlike the others. Miele has a filter for the convection fan that goes in during roasting (no clue whether that matters at all).

Is that stuff worth it? Only you can decide!


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Thanks. I am really losing perspective on this whole appliance search!

I am slightly turned off by the hand-holding programs, although I can see it coming in handy at times.

I am leaning toward the Electrolux Icon. hvtech, I think you were the one who pointed out the Bosch only has 9 programs, and I've read the manual twice as a result. I'm not sure you can use the speed cook mode outside those 9 programs, which seems awfully limiting for a $1800 appliance. I do really like the look of the Bosch ovens, though.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

My husband went ahead and ordered the Bosch wall oven (side hinge) and speed oven (220). Though the Bosch speed oven doesn't have a million programs like the others do I still think it will work well for me (I'm not the sort to use preprogrammed stuff). Looking forward to cooking again and tell you all about it. Delivery expected in 3 weeks.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Sorry I probably wasn't clear enough, my post was just talking about the convection ovens not the speed ovens, although Miele has the programs in both ovens. Electrolux and Bosch only have the programs in the speed oven, not the wall oven. I agree that the preprogrammed stuff on regular ovens is not necessary and I also would probably never use them.

However, I think speed ovens are a different story. Most people can easily find recipes and program their ovens for the proper temperature and cooking time. But will they be able to program in the proper time proportions for microwave, convection, and thermal heating elements? I doubt it. No recipe I've ever seen has that information. It would require an awful lot of experimentation to figure out the right settings. Also, the only speed oven that even lets you do that manually is the Miele Chef series, not the Bosch. So as alerievay says you are locked into using those 9 programs if you want to speed cook with the Bosch. Otherwise you must use microwave or convection separately.

I downloaded the manual for the Bosch speed oven which by the way is something you should always do before buying something. The 9 Autochef programs are:

1 - Chicken Breast
2 - Chicken Thighs
3 - Whole Poultry
4 - Beef Roast
5 - Pork Tenderloin
6 - Pork Chops
7 - Meatloaf
8 - Fish Fillets
9 - Brownies

What if you want to cook something besides those things? I agree, I would find that very limiting. There is a frozen foods button but that does not use microwaves, only convection and thermal heat. There are pizza and auto defrost buttons too but the manual does not make it clear how they work.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Yes, that's really my concern with the Bosch speed oven; I really want the ability to cook things like casseroles, etc., using the speed settings. If there was the option to use manual settings, I would still consider it, but the manual suggests there isn't. I just don't see the $800 difference over a nice micro/convection in that case.

I'm tempted to just buy the Miele speed oven and rework my floor plan to install it under the cooktop, but that seems ridiculous. I think I'll go look at the ovens tomorrow and decide if they're worth the extra $2k. I do cook a lot, and we don't currently have plans to move.

Anyway, as my husband says, I'm definitely suffering from "decision paralysis." I wish I could channel my mom and just buy some decent appliances and not worry.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Check the manufacturer's sites and ask at the appliance store to see if there are recipe books for the speed ovens. I have an Advantium, which also has a limited number of speed settings, but did come with a cookbook. I'm unlikely to make any of their recipes (which don't sound great to me), but they give guidelines. When I was contemplating my appliances, someone here (or in Kitchens) commented on using a certain unrelated setting (could have been fish heads for all that it related but I don't remember the exact one) for X amount of time to warm strawberries. Similarly, I did some cheese toast experiments comparing the toaster oven to the Advantium, and got good results using the Texas Toast program and changing the timing a little (kept an eye on it).

Similarly, if there's a recipe in the book for a 9"x9" casserole that has potatoes and a lot of liquid, and you have a 9"x13" casserole that has pasta and less liquid, you can probably start with the same balance of settings or program name and make a few alterations to get it just right. Like the potato slices might need more microwaves, but the size difference might make up for it or might need an extra minute. (I'm sorry, I don't know how the others run--on the Advantium you can set or alter microwave, thermal, convection and time. The hard part is having a starting point to show you approximately how much of each you need).


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

There are 84 "Basic food" and 100 "recipes" built into the Speed oven.

It is "Totally Automatic", no need for a "Starting point". Just select that which you wish to cook, and follow the "step by step" instructions that the speed oven displays on its large white readout.

As mentioned, it sets the temp, the preheat time, the ratio of microwaving vs regular or convection baking to acheive the best "end result for that which you chose to speed cook.

Price $1999, alto one is at "Sears outlet" for a grand.

The Mieles run about $3000 (Master Chef Models) yet they are not nearly as "automatic" as is the Elux.

Also check reviews on AJMadison for the speed ovens.

Click the helpful link at the bottom of my post to see the operators manual for the Elux Speed Oven, then scroll down to "Automatic Cooking" It TRULY IS "Automatic"!!!!

Compare this to the only 9 "automatic settings on the Bosch, or even the "Automatic Settings" on the Miele Master Chef~~~~~Electrolux wins, (Hands Down)!!!

Gary

Here is a link that might be useful: Elux Speed Oven Operators Manual


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

After a nice, long chat with the salesperson, I've decided to get a steam convection oven instead of the speed oven. I had considered that at first, but I just wasn't sure it would replace the microwave. After describing how I use a microwave, though, he suggested a steam convection.

And this puts me back in the Bosch Benchmark market, most likely. I looked at the Jenn-Air model, too, but my understanding is it's 110v, which isn't powerful enough.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Check out this comparison chart. JennAir is at the bottom. Unsurprisingly, Gaggenau came out on top. Unfortunately it was written before the Benchmark came out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Combi steam comparison

This post was edited by hvtech42 on Sat, Aug 9, 14 at 17:29


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

Thanks, that was one of the first things I looked at. :) Seems like he felt the Jenn-air was acceptable but not great. The Bosch is apparently very similar to the Thermador, which he mostly liked. I need to do a comparison between the two Thermador models and the Benchmark.

They had an 800 series speed oven on the floor. The menu is a little oddly configured (not sure anyone really competes with Jenn-air on usability of menu), but the finish felt pretty nice overall. I really appreciate the full 30" width rather than a 24" plus trim kit.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

I have wondered if I should have gotten the steam oven instead of the speed oven...

Regarding the bosch speed oven - you are correct that those are the only autochef settings. But there are lots of other settings that combine the microwave and convection. However, to get all 3 working together, you have to use that short list of programs.

Sure hope I didn't make a mistake ordering this.


 o
RE: Do I need a speed oven?

^For people considering this in the future, would you mind listing what those settings are? The manual is not very clear as to which heat sources are triggered by which settings.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Appliances Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here