Part 36 is here.

Hey just curious...anyone have to disassemble their ranges to get them installed? I'm going to have to have the face plate (control panel) taken off to get it through the door :( Tell me it goes smoothly?

Thanks
Pam

Counters will be installed Thursday and then I will be spamming with tons of pics.

Back to your discussions now .... sorry but I just HAD to share my joy with those I knew would understand. :)

MaryT <---- smiling from ear to ear :)

Bobleinani...I have the FT and a separate simmer plate accessory. I've started getting in to canning, too, and like honeysmomcooks, it is so convenient to have the FT. I know FTs have their detractors, but I love having mine and I use it all year long. It's great for big pots, but it's wonderful for when I'm entertaining and trying to manage a lot of pots on the stovetop. I find it easier to shift pots around on the FT to change temperature rather than continually adjust flames on burners. I guess it's a personal preference thing. I don't use it for everyday cooking. It does take time to heat up. But, yes, for a crowd, it's great having the FT.

That sounds pretty drastic! How wide is the narrowest opening the range has to go through? Anything mechanical can be disassembled and reassembled, of course, but if the control panel has to be removed you will also have to remove the vent below the panel and all of the gas valves. With the top, the door and the drawer also removed there won't be much left. Or is it just the handle on the control panel that is causing a problem?

tesserae wrote, "...I'm giving serious thought to the French Top. Someone scared me a little mentioning the amount of energy it uses and the heat it puts out. Does the portable simmer plate reduce or increase these issues?"

I think it depends on which range you are considering and your local climate. We considered the French top version of the Cormatin but the climate in NJ would force us to run the air conditioner more than we'd like unless we restricted ourselves to just the two open burners for six months of the year. We bought the four burner Cormatin instead. It comes with the Portable Simmer Plate. Had we bought a Cluny instead we'd probably have chosen the French top version because we'd still have four burners to use during the cooling months.

The PSP heats up and cools off more quickly than the French top and radiates less heat into the kitchen. It gives the cook the same ability to control the cooking temperature by moving pots and pans around, and it's a large enough surface to work with several pans unless they're really large. We use our PSP most of the year, avoiding it only when the AC is running almost full time (like today when it's 95º outside).

The French top has this gunky grease stuff on it - do I need to wash all that off and oil it before firing that burner up?

MaryT

todd

Worst case (gad I don't want to do this) we have to lift her on a crane up one floor and bring her in through the picture window, but that requires a permit to bring the crane in, etc. Everything else is fine, it's just that danged (fabulous) handle that is causing about a half of an inch issue for us ;o( We did consider removing the drywall but the stove won't be in until August so we'd be holding up the job to do that (we should be about done then).

I'll have to take pictures. She's working hard to find her home in Alaska LOL

Igloochic...Ugh! I can't believe you have to go through that! Mine was brought into the house on a front end loader before the builder put in the exterior French door in my kitchen. He was so grateful I was not at the house that day. He personally drove the loader at an impossibly slow speed. He was scared to death! I seem to remember someone having this trouble a couple of years ago, but I don't remember who or how they resolved it. Can you take the frame off the door?

MaryT - I love your floor. Was that original or is it new.

As for the simmerplate, I love mine. I like the prep area above my WC and because I am kind of short @5'2, that extra inch the FT would add would not be comfy if I needed that space to prep...does that make sense? Anyway, I use my PSP all the time and when I need the burners, I just swap the grate out.

I'll try and more pics added tomorrow, after the cleaning lady leaves...hee hee
Cheers,
Michele

Congrats to Mary and Michele! They are gorgeous!!! Mary, I love your windows! Michele, very cool cabinets!!!

If I could fit a 22lb turkey sitting in my great-grandmother's turkey roaster in a Sully oven, I MIGHT be able to convince my DH that we have to get a Lacanche!!!!

The turkey roaster is 20 1/2"L, 13 1/4" w, 10" H (obviously the turkey would be higher than the roaster a bit). I get so confused with oven dimensions (and I know the Sully is 21"w, 12"H, 18"D--but is that inside clearance or not? The true test would be if I could fit the turkey roaster inside-even if it's on an angle.

I would be forever grateful if someone would take the time to do this for me.

Thank you SO MUCH!!

Deb, Todd, jenos and tesserae - Thanks so much for the congrats to me! I am in heaven and just keep going in there to touch and look at her!

igloo - oh bummer on the small door! But I am sure it will work out fine! I was a wreck worrying about how my range move in to the house and kitchen was going to go ... didn't get much sleep last night ... and it all went smoothly. Whew!

Velodoug - you have been a fount of knowledge in the past for me and I am so grateful you are still here to answer questions. Hopefully I will be able to do the same for others soon.

MaryT

Thanks!!

wwardlb - Thank you! And congrats to you! Love your kitchen and especially those white cabs! Are those marble countertops? They are lovely!

The brick floor is original and is full sized ACME brick pavers and I love it. Indestructible and never looks dirty even when it is - which is a bonus with kids (now teens) and the big dog. :)

MaryT

Tesserae...the simmer plate is the best of both worlds. It provides the most flexibility. My kitchen is kind of big so it is always difficult for me to compare the amount of heat the FT throws off. Plus, I'm always cold, so I don't mind the heat! With the simmer plate, you don't have to sacrifice any burners. If my cooking surface was smaller, I'd definitely get the simmer plate vs the FT. I wouldn't want to sacrifice burners.

Michelle...your kitchen is GORGEOUS, too! I love the look!

jenos -- The oven height might be an issue too. The published height of 12" is measured from the oven floor. The height from the top of the rack in the lowest position is roughly 10-3/4". I understand the need to accommodate a well loved piece of kitchen gear. It was our search for a range less than 28" wide that would fit our old Mauviel roasting pan that lead us to our Cormatin.

Velodoug, That's what we're given to understand. If we just take those pieces off it should be easy, although your next line did make me giggle..."Just take care not to hit the gas control shafts on the door frame when you move the range" Heh heh "I" won't be moving it...I have big beefy contractors, and you'll be happy to hear that these guys BABY my materials. They're neurotic about being good to our things :) which makes us feel so good about having them around. Now the plumbers...shudder...we won't let them near her!

The contractors are pretty excited about the job because we're using so many unusual things in the remodel, and they know they're going to get free press when it's published. I don't know if they're just always terribly dilligent about a clients things, of if they're extra careful because of the press..(I have a feeling it's number one for most of the guys) but either way, it takes a lot of stress off of us. I have great faith they'll treat our new baby with the care she deserves.

We are 90% done...after 1 1/2 years. Still waiting on SZ fridge and VAH blower. Funny thing about the vent we have been using a oscalating (sp?) fan, from target, to blow the heat and smoke when needed and it works just fine, especially since we have no windows in the kitchen, per se. All the worry about the hood is realy a non-issue at this point, I wish I hadn't worried so much about it.

We did turn the little heat vent on the range to face forward, I think Deb did the same. It seems to keep the backsplash cooler and cleaner. We also put a sheet of stainless steel on the wall, below the tile. Just in case.

I can't really think of anything else right now. We have been "done" since October, so I kind of forgot all of the details.

Again, I really wouldn't have done most of the things we did had it not been for this forum, especially, Deb, ZolaBlue, VeloDoug and all of the "Oldies"...thanks again.

I guess maybe now I graduate to "Oldie" status...

Cheers,
Michele

My favorite pic of all was the first one with the grocery bag ... LOL ... I am so looking forward to grocery shopping this Thursday after the counters are installed! :)

Jenos - I'll get with you just as soon as your "etchings" arrive! Keep the faith!

MaryT

Nice photos, Michelle, thanks for sharing!

igloochic, best of luck in your "welcome home" party for your new Lacanche. :)

jenos, I hope your calculations work out (too bad it's the wrong time of the year to gauge the height of a 22-lb. turkey!) but if I were you, I'd just go with it! :)

REALLY, YOU NEED TO..

TIBEAY&KYCDI!!! (Feel Totally Inspired By Everyone Around You & Know YOU CAN DO IT!)

Do what YOU want, Do what YOU can and do what YOU like. Work from the basics, dream big and whittle down. Buy the best, but not the "Common", be original, but don't reinvent the wheel.

Don't forget to "Be your own protector"!!

Cheers,
Michele

Got you roaster template! Here are my pics and observations regarding your roaster and fitting in the Sully oven:

Pic 1:
As you can see the body of the roaster fits easily with room to spare. There is even at about 1/2" clearance for the handles to the sides of the oven.

Pic 2:
Here I pulled the oven rack/shelf out with the roaster template still in the straight position. This is to show that the roaster handles clear the vertical shelf brackets. It’s close but there is at least 1/4" of clearance on each side. So the only problem you may have is if the position of the handles hits EXACTLY where the horizontal shelf guides are located, for the straight pan position shown in Pic 1 and Pic 2. If the handles are located at the top edge of the roaster (as I think they might be) they you are fine, since 10" is above the top horiz shelf guide.

Pic 3:
When roaster is placed diagonally it fits and clears even the horizontal shelf guides. (I am familiar with this trick because I had to use it with my big solid cast aluminum oval roaster in my old 24" wall oven.) The front edge of the roaster protrudes a bit over the edge of the oven rack/shelf, but it is only a bit and and is still well within the oven’s interior boundaries. The oven door closed without moving the template at all.

So, in my opinion, your roaster will fit ... even if the handles are at exactly the same level as the horizontal shelf guides ... it will fit on the diagonal.

About the height of the turkey ... if it’s so tall that it won’t go in, well that is one HUGE turkey! I would get a little smaller one ... or hit that sucker with a hammer to flatten him a little. ***grin***

HTH and let me know if I have missed anything, if something isn’t clear or if you have additional questions.

Go order that Lacanche!!! :)
MaryT

MaryT

I'll be anxiously waiting to see what you do. Tell DH "If Mama ain't happy ... " ***grin***

My very best and good luck!
MaryT <--- gettin' countertops in the a.m. Yea!!!!

PS ... if you don't get the Lacanche (perish the thought!) I would recommend either a BlueStar or Wolf. Viking has a less than stellar reputation around here according to what I've read over the last 3+ years of hanging around here.

Oh yes - and they are still in there working on them! Been here all day. And I am wreck LOL. Will post pics and info tomorrow evening, as the plumber will be here in the am to hook up all the sinks etc.

Thanks for thinking of me!
MaryT <--- a nervous wreck at the moment ***hysterical laughter***

I've been lurking on the forum for almost a year and researched every detail of my impending kitchen remodel like a true TKO. I've been back and forth over a 48" pro style range and 36" rangetop and seperate double wall oven. Everyday I want a different arrangement and can not make up my mind.

Then enter my new obsession with French ranges!! I watched all the videos on YouTube on the LaCornue ranges (obviously not an option for financial reasons, but fun to watch all the same!) and read through every Lacanche Range threads I could find. I'm enamored but terrified!

The question that will make you laugh - first, how do I pronounce 'Lacanche'? (I want to be saying it right when I share my new found passion with my husband!!)

Secondly, the thought of ordering a range that is only carried through one distributor in the US, has to be special ordered and that I can't SEE beforehand FREAKS me out! I've been looking at Wolf and Dacor - because those I can SEE on a showroom floor!

I cook from scratch 5x a week. I grind my own grain and bake my own bread. I make lots of rolls, cinnamon rolls and muffins for my family. I homeschool and am home and in my kitchen ALOT! I'm designing a fairly large kitchen, but because I cannot exceed my budget I am planning every item carefully. But this will be a very obvious GW kitchen!

If I have 48 inches to work with, what Lacanche range choices do I have? What prices am I looking at INCLUDING freight? What will the interior size of my ovens be? How long will I have to wait once my range is ordered? I'm in love with the thought of a French Top - how practical are they, really, if I live in the Deep South and run my air conditioning from April to October?

Note, Here's the numbers I've been working with: I was budgeting $2000 for GE Monogram rangetop, $4000 for double wall ovens and $700 for a paneled warming drawer. OR $9000 for Dacor range OR $11,000 for Wolf - a tight squeeze financially, but I would have scrimped somewhere else!

So, it boils down to: I'm in love, but so frightened! Has anyone else been frightened by an item so obviously 'outside the box'? If anyone can answer these questions, it's you fine people.

Either talk me into this, or turn my obsession in another direction!!! Help!

Specs on Lacanche in the UK are located here:
http://www.lacanche.co.uk/

Click on the range of your dreams and look to the technical information. Anything an electrician needs is available.

Now for a 48" space in the US,
Cluny is 39 and 3/8"
$7500 (two small ovens) Shipping is $1095
Cormatin is 27 3/4"
$5995 (one large oven) Shipping is $995
Volnay/Vogueot (best choice I think) $7900 with larger oven I think and a warming cabinet!
Shipping is $1,095

Specs for these are all available at the USA lacanche site www.frenchranges.com You click on the stove and it goes to the specs pages.

Now how to say Lacanche? Well let me tell you a secret...my french sucks :o) But since no one you know (including your DH) knows about this stove, they won't know if you pronounce it correctly or not. Just say whatever you say consistently and with confidence...it's amazing how well that works. I am currently working with "La Kon shhhh" heh heh (someone want to correct me?)

The only other upcharges are for color (anywhere from $650 for the smallest to $1300 for the largest range) and not for all colors. The other charges are pretty insignificant (things like special grill guards etc). We ended up with a Cluny 1400 FULLY LOADED (we got everything and it's brother) and we're still only at $12,495 with shipping to Alaska).

The UK versions include a couple cool options and configurations that aren't available in the US (The Macon and the Moderne to name a couple). I liked the steamer grill thingie (ok that's technical) option in the UK. We'd have gotten that if it were available here in a heart beat considering we steam vegies almost every night.

I'm going to go look at pictures of our baby La Kon Shhhhh and dream of the day she sits here...(right past that pile of trash LOL)

mo sgal...keep an eye on the page I linked below. These are ranges in inventory...either here or on the way. Maybe you'll find a pre-made range in the configuration you need. I bought my Sully +2 sight unseen! 100% on the basis of these long-running Lacanche threads! Most of us have bought sight unseen. You're not crazy! I know it's a huge leap of faith. Sometimes AC can set you up to see someone's range. I was originally planning for a 60" range and 2 WDs. I managed to convince DH this one, combined unit would be best. It certainly didn't disappoint!! Good luck!

Kate...I don't think the rotis is available on the US models. Check the link below for ranges in inventory...maybe you can put the rotis on an outdoor grill and get the range of your dreams!!

The Lacanche are UL rated / listed for here is the US - no big deal - see frenchranges.com (the Art Culinaire site who is the US distributor) for all the details. There is NO problem whatsoever with installing etc ... ie those that come to the US are MADE for our electrical systems!

HTH
MaryT

My experience right now with halogen is they put off a lot of heat! We are switching to flourescent for our under counter lights.

But truly, GO WITH THE 1400!!!!!!!

Cheers,
Michele

Tesserae - I got the 600 cfm VAH's like momto4 and cooked my first "meal" last pm. Oh joy!!! Made pan fried steaks in my cast iron skillet and all I can say is those VAH's rock! I would NEVER have been able to do that in my old kitchen without setting off the smoke alarm! LOL You most definitely want the HALOGEN lights. I got them based on past posts here and they are awesome. I also made baked potatoes and it was heaven being able to keep them at perfect serving temp in the warming cab, so I would say to get the Cluny 1400 if you can swing it.

Below is the link for Art Culinaire's Private Reserve for anyone not aware of it ...

Oh ... sorry no pics yet, but waiting for cab doors to be put on (they are being painted in the dining room) before any more pics. Granite and marble counters in and are drop dead gorgeous!!! Slight hick-up there, as it they mis-read the range specs so I have a void behind the range that we will need to work out how to fill. ***groan*** But on a happy note .... I have a sink YES!!! ... but dishwasher, ice maker and fridge still not in place/hooked up .... this week, the plumber said as he left on Saturday ... fingers crossed ...

MaryT

Mary....I'll bet you were dancing!!! So glad you're finally cooking! It has been a long ride! Enjoy!!

I'm finally getting around to the details of my kitchen renovation. I've had my gorgeous burgundy vougeot since December, and I'm working out the other appliance details. Any thoughts on Miele Masterchef v. Wolf 30" single wall oven?

Also, regarding ventilation -- I'm doing a custom wood hood with an insert/liner . I just assumed that the VAH was the way to go, but the salesman at the appliance store is suggesting the Broan Rangemaster insert with a liner. Is there something about VAHs that just works better with Lacanches? Did anyone with a Lacanche consider the Broan? The salesman suggested that the grease filter on the Broan was better than the 'magic lung'. I liked the stainless steel aspect of it -- looked very easy to pop in the dishwasher and much nicer than something mesh.

Any advice is appreciated!
Ahneb

But mt applicance lady was very comforting to my sad woe but said she would help me find appliances that suited my style of cooking. We'll talk next week. My next house will be in the dreamy, older side of town where the house are full of charm, and then I simply MUST put my foot down and purchase my Cluny 1400!

Thank you all for your replies - and I will continue to coo over every new Lacanche range purchase on this forum! Ya'll are so helpful - thanks again!

Boy, you guys sure love your warming cabinets! I've always worked really hard to get everything ready at the same time, and we all eat together, so I've never really had to keep anything warm. However, I do get very stressed sometimes trying to make it all work out. Can you tell me how you use yours? Do you cook earlier in the day? A dish at a time? Save food for late-arriving spouses?

I have a Thermador rangetop now with 6 burners and a griddle. We use the griddle a lot and the titanium coating makes clean-up a breeze. We had a Viking rangetop before the Thermador and didn't like how it looked, cooked, cleaned or how rusty it became. So here is the question - How difficult is it to clean and keep the griddle, Frence Top, and grillplate seasoned so that they don't rust but clean enough that they don't feel sticky?

Also, since it has been a very long time since I last had an actual range, is it uncomfortable to stand in front of the stove with the ovens on? Does it get uncomfortably hot and can a child burn themselves if they touch the doors?

Does the fact that the ovens are not self-cleaning bother anyone. Is cleaning the oven as easy as Lacanche claims? Is cleaning the burners any more or less difficult than any other stainless topped sealed burners?

I love the look of the Lacanche, the idea of the warming oven rather than a drawer and cooking on the french top sounds like it would be great fun but are those things worth giving up self-cleaning ovens and an easy to clean griddle . Can anyone out there give me their perspective on these issues please!?

Is service an issue for anyone?

I clean our griddle by putting one end in the bottom of the sink and the other end on the rim, running hot water over it and scrubbing it with a stiff brush - no soap and no scouring - and then turning it end for end to finish the job. It takes only a couple of minutes. I clean the grill the same way but it takes a little more scrubbing to get all of the gunk out of the grooves. It might take me as long as four or five minutes. We don't have a French top, but our Portable Simmer Plate cleans up just as easily as the griddle and the grill.

I'm not the best person to reply to the self cleaning question because we didn't use it when we had it in our previous range. With the gas oven in our Cormatin, I remove the door and the bottom panel and clean them with EZ-Off in the basement, and just give the sides and the top a quick scrape with a plastic windshield scraper. Along with our weekly pizza baked at 550 F which burns off most of the nasty bits, it's enough to keep it looking quite presentable.

Tess - RE - Warming cab. You are lucky everyone sits down at same time! Haven't been able to do that here for years - teen's & DH's busy schedules make it impossible. It will he heaven to cook and not care when my eaters are going to arrive. Aside from that it will be also be wonderful for holidays and parties - or when I do plan on cooking earlier in the day.

Horses - The only question I can answer at the moment is about the self-cleaning issue. It doesn't bother me at all because I have never once in all my life ever used the self-cleaning function of any of the ovens I had. OK, maybe once. Rather, I spot clean occasionally if needed, which is also rare.

MaryT

I am happy to hear that with the ovens on, the doors don't get hot enough to burn a curious toddler. Anyone out there have issues with cleaning the french top/simmerplate?

I love the idea of the warming oven to dry tomatos from my garden in the summer and slow cook baby back ribs all day. It sounds like a big crock pot! I would buy the warming oven by itself if I could. Thanks again people!! Happy cooking!

After lurking form months I took the plunge, and my French Blue Cluny will arrive in September. Like many of you here, I ordered sight unseen... I am in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan (Canada) and the only other Canadian Lacanche Ryan knew of was in Nova Scotia... let's hope I don't have any service issues ;-)

In the beating a horse to death dept., I have a question about Cluny hoods which I haven't seen addressed on the forums. I received info from AC suggesting that my hood have a minimum 42" wide canopy. But I note that most of you forum folk with Clunys seem to go for 48" or even bigger. Is there anyone with a Cluny out there that has a 42" hood canopy? Does it work? Has anyone tried it and had it fail? I sure would like to do 42" if possible, but don't want to compromise range/ventilation functionality just to save a few hood inches. Any advice will be MUCH APPRECIATED. THANKS!

As to the hood, I'm no expert, but...I know the 3" overhang on each side is a "rule of thumb," really. Sort of a starting point. Factor in your style of cooking (lots of frying? greasy cooing? high heat?), your hood height (vertical distance off the burners...27"? 30"? 36"?), depth of your hood, CFMs...and you have room to play around with the dimensions.

My hood is the same footprint as my range and it sits 36" off the burners. I tend to do the higher heat or greasy-type cooking on the back inner burners...so I felt my style of cooking didn't dictate that I had to worry about the overhang. I don't have problems with "escape."

honeysmom...what color are your cabinets? I think I'd stick with SS or painted...UNLESS...your cabs are white, then I'd go SS or white. I'm not sure how the burst of white would look surrounded by darker wood cabinetry.

igloochic...I did some baking the other day in both ovens and made a point to touch the doors. I found them warm, but not hot. I could easily keep my hands on the doors and not feel any burn. I will say...sometimes my pot lids which I keep in the drawers under the ovens...those lids get hot to the touch. If you store your lids there and open a drawer during baking, you'd want to be careful about having a toddler reach in to be "helpful!" I don't think it would burn or anything like that....it just would be too hot to a toddler.

Did get to use the convection oven to make some banana bread for the boys...nice....

I'll have to post some pics.

I did have a question though...what is the best way to season the French Cooktop...I havent had the chance to use it yet.

Thanks.

I'm told our baby will arrive next week. We are not sure where we'll be living then sadly (a long story but we're currently homeless due to a plumber's issue) but I suppose I can go visit her in our dining room.

Gad I hope someday to have a kitchen!

HTH
MaryT

Sorry no pics yet ... but they are STILL painting in the kitchen ... currently starting round FOUR of cabinet painting (don't ask - it's a nightmare - truly). Counters are in and although not the layout I specified (again don't ask) are beautiful. On a good note I AM cooking on my gorgeous Sully 1800 ... with the one skillet, one saucepan and one 9x12 baking dish not still in storage. It's basic cooking, with only the spices from my herb garden but OMG am I loving this range!!! I feel like I have died and gone to heaven every time I fire her up and I am loving learning to get used to all that fire power - after years of cooking on one puny electric burner (Jenn air - the other burners were malfunctioning so I didn't use them).

I do have a question though. Is there an adjustment to get the pilot on the gas oven to light quicker? The long "clicking time" before it lights is a bit annoying. :) I seem to remember a discussion on this before but can't remember/find the solution. Sorry. I know I should query AC but I thought I would ask here first. :)

MaryT

Update on long "clicking time" (firing of electronic starter for gas pilot) before pilot finally lighting. Talked to AC and this is normal. The reason is because the gas tube feeding the pilot has to fill with gas and this can take up to 30 seconds - therefore the "long" firing time before the pilot gets gas and therefore CAN light. Tech support also said that on the oven, the gas flow will not even open up to the pilot unless you have turned the range knob to temperature. If you just turn the knob to the IGN (ignition) setting, it will just fire/click forever. This is opposed to the cooktop burners, which do light at the IGN setting of the knobs.

I hope I have explained this adequately and HTH anyone else with the same question in the future. I had found the discussion on this before on Part 36, but there was no final explanation that I could find. :)

MaryT

If you turn your oven knob anywhere past the IGN, you might find shorter clicking times. I had a similar experience in the beginning. Gregg told me to go past the IGN. Now it just clicks a few times. Still waiting for pix!!

How exciting! When does it arrive? Great color! Can't wait to see how this is going into that kitchen you're building! Congrats!
MT4K

I'm very excited as our walls just went up as of last week and I got to walk around my kitchen and see where the Lacanche is going!

I stumbled upon this while doing a google search if anyone out there is interested. It's a Lacanche Cluny for sale in Ann Arbor. I have no connection, no knowledge, etc. beyond reading the ad but wanted to pass it along.

Beth

Now you do know that you have to take it out of the crate right away don't you? Just in case there's any in crate damage to report. (It's in the contractor's instruction package). They can crate it right back up, but you do want to be sure that she's in good shape now :) (So she can sit around for months like mine is doing LOL)

I have considered both the Volnay and the Aga 6-4 (also the CornuFe). I really like the accessories that the LaCanche provides best (the griddle and grill, baking sheets, etc.). I also like the flexibility with the burner layout, and that warming cabinet is so cool! The Aga has a dealer within driving distance, so I think we should be okay should it need special attention down the road. What are the options for servicing a LaCanche in the US (we're in So. Cal. -- Orange County)?

It was pouring when she came and my garage has been torn down, so we took the ends off the crate to discern that the plastic wrapping her up was completely intact, and that nothing on the interior of the crate had been disturbed. I have to admit, I was surprised at how peturbed the delivery driver was when I insisted that we do that. Sorry - not signing off on an 8,000 dollar appliance just because "you're sure" it's fine.

Sarschlos- I'm sure many experienced owners will chime in here, but I bought mine sight unseen because the oven is so SIMPLE. It is far more complicated to repair the electronic, new-fangled range than a Lacanche. I actually called my usual repair guy to discuss it with him!
If I recall correctly, the only electronic part on the Lacanche is the ignition. (I got the all gas range.)
Best of luck making your decision.

Beth

I got back from Italy a month ago and I am almost ready to order my lacanche. I have one question. What makes the lacanche hood so expensive? I do not think that the fan is the problem. I think that the fabulous metal work is the expensive part. I love that big hood done in the same color as the stove but at 3000 euro ($4300) I'm hurting. Do they pull any better than other hoods? I could get a hood from someone else for about a 1000 euros and a hint is that without the fan, lacanche is only about 1000 euros cheaper. What does everyone think?

My dream is getting closer.

I do seem to remember there have been a few Lacanche owners who had custom hoods made/painted to match their Lacanches with very good results. Wish I could remember who they were!

Good luck!

I'll try to email you again. Thanks.

Sorry for the highjack everyone.

So here are the contenders....

1. Cook it long and slow in the electric convection oven until it reaches the correct internal temperature (figure about 45 min a pound and we're talking 15 hours), let it rest and carry-over, then and blast it at 500º for 15 minutes for crusting.

2. Cook it in the gas oven...lowest temperature is 275ºF Gas Mark 1. I'm worried about this one since a lot of rib roast gurus say to cook it at 200º or lower if you can, although it seems natural to cook a roast in the gas oven...it cooks birds to perfection by the way.

3. Cook it in the warming cabinet to internal temperature, let it rest and carry-over, then blast it in the gas oven for 15 minutes to crust. This frees up my electric convection oven to cook a pie or two and finish a gratin.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Congrats on the sully+2. It must seem like cooking on an aircraft carrier.

I could go on for about an hour or so disscussing roasting but this is how I cook a prime rib.

I never long roast in a convection oven. If you have your face turned into the wind, you get chapped lips right? It will dry your roast. Also electric ovens are drier than gas ovens.

I would sear it in the convection for the first 30 minutes or so at maybe 400 only to seal the outside and trap in the juices and then when golden move it to the gas oven at 300 or 325. That is plenty low. It would take forever in the warming cabinet.

The "per pound" doesn't work as you know. If you buy a larger prime rib, it just gets longer so actually it will cook in the same time as a smaller one. It is the thickness that determines cooking time and the temperature of the meat before it goes in the oven. Some people let their roasts stand at room temp for a while before cooking. It should take 3-4 hours to cook to medium rare but again it depends on how it is trimmed.

If it gets too dark, tent it with aluminum. If you want to pretend that you have a La Cornue vaulted oven, place a pan of water in the oven along with your roast to keep the air moist. The roast will be the juiciest it can be.

Anyone wonder what a trullo looks like? Here is ours under construction. Opps! How do you post photos?

Marty

Thanks again

D.

[URL=http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2752659930102425525zMAKrM][IMG]http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/23844/2752659930102425525S425x425Q85.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

What part of Puglia is this, my Grandfather was from Foggia.

Wow! 20 degree carry over cooking. How long did Larry cook for?

These are not my final finished pics, but the cabs are FINALLY painted (took 5 times to get it close to right! But that’s another story ... ) and my island BB counter is finally in, and I have started unloading boxes here in "Hell Week 43" of this remodel. ;)

So here are some quick pics for those I know who have been waiting for them. Ignore obvious clutter and be aware that I have done NO final arranging of "stuff" anywhere. And yes, I know I have eclectic taste, so allow me cut you off at the pass on that one. :)

MaryT

Your kitchen is just beautiful! You must be so happy with it. I am still in the renovation grind, with my Lacanche crated in the garage, and getting a bit discouraged, but seeing your gorgeous finished kitchen really perked me up :-) Are you going to post details in finished kitchens blog? I especially would love to know what kind of granite that is and what species of wood on the BB (looks darker than maple?) Enjoy your lovely new space!

Hang in there on your reno grind. I know just how discouraging it is believe me! At times I grieved that all the delays and troubles were going to take away some of joy of having the new kitchen ... but that has not proven to be the case. One day you'll be cooking on your beautiful range and life will be good again!

My best,
MaryT

Has anyone ever had cabinet pulls fabricated to match the hardware on their Lacanche? Or found a source for ready made pulls that match?

I just installed my Cormatin (at last!!) and I have yet to find cabinet hardware that I feel really works well with the range. I have an incredibly tiny kitchen (7'x7') with a fair number of cabinets for such a small kitchen. The sheer number of pulls that will be needed in such a small space and everything pretty much clustered around the range... you get the idea.

(I am new to the forum and just figuring out how this works. If my question has caused a breach in forum etiquett, please excuse a newbie!)

Laura

Your eclectic taste is right up my alley. I can't wait to show off my finished kitchen, from the chicken backsplash to the art deco lighting LOL oh and the 26 different knobs....heh heh

Laura I answered you in the thread you started. I have seen a couple knob styles that would probably work (I'm such a knob freak that I ordered cabinets to fit...and highlight my knobs, verses knobs to highlight my cabinets LOL).

Any sources you might suggest would be greatly appreciated. It is the long handle on the front of the stove that I am after. I had originally thought of using knobs but my efforts to fill the holes left by the previous handles were not satisfactory. I am rehabing some very old cabinets, so that is not altogether surprising.

Thanks for your response to my inquiry!

Laura

P.S. What does LOL stand for?

Your kitchen is just absolutely beautiful. If ever remodeling hell was worth it, yours is it.

Well done!
Ivette

The twisted bars are the foundation knobs (I have about 40 of those, and some little knots that match), then by the same maker...Anne at Home....I picked through the animal collection and DH (dear husband) and I just grabbed the ones that caught out eyes :) They all have the same finish (antique pewter) and the animals will be scattered around the kitchen at random. I actually had to carefully pick my cabinets to work with them because some are quite large (the squirrels are about 4" wide from tail to nose) so we had to have a trim that was flat, and 3 1/2 wide at least so they fit. Since they're very plain cabinets, it's ok to go knob crazy. The same combo in a room with very detailed cabinets would look very overdone. (At least that's my theory and I'm sticking to it) LOL (laugh out loud) :o) (and if you look at that sideways it's a smiley face).

I hope someday to have a finished project to show!

One of the things I love about the Lacance trims is that they use the combo of gold/silver, which really makes it easy to have fun with trimmings throughout the kitchen. My art deco lighting (antique that has been rewired) is a combo of silver and gold as well. I tried to pick that up quite often in the kitchen design (if you haven't seen the Franke pot filler...don't look LOL because it's PERFECT with the Lacanche).

I am doing a second kitchen at the same time and in that one I'm using the existing cabinets and will have the same issues you have (finding pulls that cover holes). That's a little more challenging but for a knob freak :) It's fun too!

I'll go ahead and just paste some links here with some two tones to look at. I don't know your budget, so I am going to just look to style, verses money (My favorite way to shop heh heh)

I don't know if you've thought of going two tone with a different style, but just in case, I'll include a few bars like that as well just to give you some ideas... if you look further you'll see that many have matching knobs as well.

http://www.knobgallery.com/shop/display/27196

http://www.knobgallery.com/shop/display/11120

http://www.knobgallery.com/shop/display/19537

http://www.knobgallery.com/shop/display/19538

http://www.knobgallery.com/shop/display/19540

http://www.knobgallery.com/shop/display/15313

http://www.knobgallery.com/shop/display/15285

(note that on this one you pick the bar and the mount finish separately to customize your look)http://www.knobgallery.com/shop/display/4865

http://www.knobgallery.com/shop/display/4877

http://www.knobgallery.com/shop/display/20370

http://www.knobgallery.com/shop/display/20385

There's a little start :) I really like doing business with this company (Knob Gallery) I've placed several orders through them and always been happy. They also have a great return policy so if you want to order a few samples they can send you one of each and then refund you when you choose the perfect one. There are other places to shop (if you like one...do a google on the internet for that particular knob) but I think I've found you a few that work here :) Let me know and if not, I'll see what else I can find (I have a 300 page catalog that just arrived yesterday with knobs gallore...heh heh)

Ivette - Thank you for your kind words. I am loving it, even if I am still tripping over my GC doing "punch list" stuff LOL. Coming from you and your gorgeous kitchen, that is a high compliment indeed. :)

Still unpacking boxes. Hopefully this weekend or next week I will get more detailed pics taken and will post over in the Kitchen forum - with a heads up post here for anyone who doesn't go over there.

My best,
MaryT

Thanks for the references! I checked out the images that you cited, then called Knob Gallery this a.m. I am going to try pulls cb1304, you can see them at:

http://www.knobgallery.com/shop/display/4865

Those can also be done in two different finishes: brushed nickel rod and brass caps and mounting stems. Pretty close. I ordered a couple of them to see how they look. Even at $17/piece, it is way cheaper than having ones fabricated. The woman on the phone was incredibly nice. I am still going to keep my eyes open for a closer match, let me know if you see anything in your monster sized catalogue - but this one may work just fine.

Thanks!
Laura

Just curious...who did you talk to about fabrication? I'm thinking my stainless steel manufacturer could do something like a lacanche knob for under $20 each, but I'd have to chat with him to find out. Someone like that might be cheaper than an artist...

Your fabrication reminds me of my chandelier problem. I purchased a fabulous art deco chandelier from France for a steal!!! It was gorgeous!!! Well until they didn't package it well enough for the trip to Alaska and two globes broke.

So now I can have them fabricated. It will take approximately 3 years and several thousand dollars and I have to agree to allow for the chandelier to be reproduced as well if they do it. So much for my deal :) That darned chandelier still sits in the garage with it's two globes, teasing me every time I visit the house...

Just a heads up - I posted my kitchen pics over in the Kitchen forum. Link below.

I spoke with a a gentleman at Heritage Metal Works, he quoted me a range of $100-$150 or more per pull given the need to fabricate the mold and accomodate multiple finishes. The cost was based on an order of 15 pulls, it would go down with increased quantities. The design would be a an excellent match, but did I mention the cost???? Yikes.

If you know of another possible source, I would be very interested.

Thanks!
Laura

Please check your email.
Pamela

And - does anyone, anyone have anything negative to say about these ranges? Anything?

MaryB

The silence in asking if anyone has anything negative to say, well, says it all I think!

HTH,
MaryT

I've been following this forum for a year and the only negative I have heard is that in transit, the ovens get out of calibration by 50 degrees or so. Big deal right! So I am buying sight unseen. I am buying a Vougeot because my pans will not fit in a Cluny. The Sully has two ovens the same size as mine will have. If I could, I would buy the Sully+1 like you talk about but it is 1800 not 1400. 1400 is the Cluny+1.

Marty

First, welcome to our world!

I have the Sully+2. I had 30" ovens in my previous house and was afraid to go smaller. As I now consider the kind of oven cooking I do throughout the year, I think I, too, could have been quite happy with the Cluny oven size. When building this house, I didn't have to consider space issues, so I figured why not get the larger ovens?!

I haven't heard any negative feedback where someone wished their Cluny ovens were bigger. There was some talk a few threads back about particular roasters or cookie sheets, but I think those folks found alternative pans to use and went Cluny. (I think that's an accurate statement!)

Chime in with any other questions you might have. Post them on this thread vs a new thread as many Lacanche owners just come back to visit this thread and may miss a separate post.

Good luck in your decision process!

It has been a long hard road, and I abandoned GW about a year ago in despair over remodel stress and overload, but it is (almost) done, and in fact, my kitchen has been done for a while and I move back in the house (after leaving 16 months ago) on Dec 10!! woo hoo!

Anyway, I have been excited to get back to this thread, as I have only cooked one "one pot" meal and I have yet to really test my cluny out, but I am so excited to do so.

Here she is, ready for action:

(the gas oven clicking thing was timely too. That was on my contractor's punch list! I'll take it off. :)

I've got the Cluny & just load both the ovens up when I'm baking. I've got all my roasting & cookie sheets to fit in there. I just ended up replacing a pizza stone for a smaller one. I've never had the wish for a larger oven cavity. I can bake 4 sheets of cookies at once. I've gotten a 17 lb turkey in one oven and pies in the other.

I love the scale of the Cluny in my 9' long range wall.

-a

Also--this site is as slow as ever! :)

Andrea, I'm going through remodel hell as well (in fact it's so bad we purchased another house to live in while we are out of ours) so I understand your pain, but sheessshhh it's wonderful to see your Cluny did finally find a home! I hope to see my 1400 find one as well soon!!!

My question is: did anyone get the splatter guard for the griddle/grill plate? If so, what do you think of it?

Judy

I'm doing exactly your first choice. For me it is perfect. I will have a warming cabinet, which to me is indespensible, and one large oven in the Volney with convection (Lacanche convection ovens are not adjustable to static cooking. The fan is always on.) My sheet pans will not fit in the Cluny. Then I am buying a wall oven as my back-up. This is a multi-function oven with rotiserie and the works. Then for further versatility, I am getting the five burner top and a portable simmer plate so that I can make the stove into a French Top for when I need to do so. I am placing my order this week. Marron Glace and all chrome with matching fornair hood. I must be dreaming. Good luck!

We did out remodel with only structural engineering blueprints, no elevations or designer drawings. Big Mistake! I thought I could handle the design because I was so sure I knew what I wanted. That was before we found the dry rot, termite destroyed wood floors, walls that couldn't be changed etc. All my original plans have been altered and I am still waiting for kitchen cabinets to go in. However, I am encouraged by all your posts and the recognition that time will eventually end this seemingly endless process.
Happy holidays to all and again, welcome back momto4kids,jaedwards, vedazu, lpolk and the rest of you "happy in your finished kitchen" returners.
JanieO

The funny thing is my kitchen was done first, months ago, and I have just "visited it" during the other construction (addition to old house). I am a little freaked out because my appliances were bought so long ago, I think most are out of warranty!! You will have a lot of fun testing it all out when it is done, that gaggeneau will get lots of use, I'm sure!

Hang in there. I still have a storage pod and dumpster in my yard. No front porch. And a sheet of ice in front of the side door, where the movers are coming on wed.

But today I unpacked all my old baking pans, and only 1 jumbo muffin pan didn't fit in the cluny oven. Even my lg roaster fits, which I was sure would not.

Keep us up to date!

Just my two cents' worth on Cluny vs. Volnay: I have a Cluny and am quite happy with it; I bake a fair amount and roast a lot of meats and veggies. When I bake, it is not so much cookies, as scones, so I don't fill up my oven and pan size isn't an issue. The roasting veggies on a 13x18" half sheet pan does fill the oven front to back, so I turn the pan at quarter-time, flip the veggies at half-time, and turn the pan again at 3/4 time -- because air circulation is ample on the sides of the pan, but not front to back. If my kitchen had been bigger (and as Chef Marty suggested), I would have loved to have the Volnay and have a convection wall oven, for additional versatility (it would have compromised a 30" floor to ceiling pantry, which I couldn't give up). I do love the visual balance of my Cluny and it is an ideal width centered in my average-sized kitchen (15 feet wide on the range wall).

Good luck with your remodel!
kg

We have had our burgundy Cluny, "Julia," for nearly two years now. This forum was a great help at the time, so I thought I would pass on what our experience has been.

First, how we cook and what kind of stove we were looking for. We don’t bake a lot of cookies and such. When we do bake it is usually cake or pie. We do make bread and a lot of pizza. We like to feed our friends and on a scale of 1 to 10 on the "I’m not a professional chef, but I play one at home" I would rate us an 8-9. We wanted a stove that had enough oomph to sear, not steam food. It should look great. We definitely did not want something in stainless. It needed to have two ovens. We also wanted something less prone to problems. We have friends with a Viking that seemed to give them a lot of trouble and the tech support seemed lacking. I’m not saying this is true of all Viking stuff, just my friend’s. We know there are more powerful, cheaper and equally reliable stoves on the market, but the Cluny was a perfect match for what we wanted.

We ordered, sight unseen. Art Culinaire was good to work with except the pause in contact that everyone seems to have after the initial sign of interest. I don’t know what this is about, but perhaps by now they have that fixed.

Our stove arrived on Valentine’s Day and was installed the same day. We hired some movers to drag it from the garage to the kitchen. I could have done this myself with the help of a friend, but it seemed prudent to get two guys with lifting equipment.

I installed the rest. Very straightforward and doable by most DIYers.

We cooked a great V. Day meal.

Okay. From the top to the bottom.

The stainless steel top is easy to clean. I use soap and water followed by some variety of stainless cleaner. Going with the grain is a bit of a pain, but I only clean it this hard once a month. The brass burner tops can be cleaned, if you care, with Bartender’s Helper if you scrub hard. When you get your stove, photograph the brass tops. They will never look like that again. The bottom portion of the burners can be cleaned the same way. I have tried other methods such as the dishwasher and even oven cleaner, but you just have to use muscle power.

We have the French top. We use it a lot less than we thought we would. Even with the burner set to low, it eventually gets too hot for a low simmer. We do, however, use it to keep stuff warm when we are cooking large meals. It also makes a terrific landing spot. When we first had it, we were instructed to season it like a cast iron pan. I suspect the only reason for this is to keep rust at bay. If it gets wet, it rusts. Easy enough to clean off though.

The burners are perfect. We don’t cook with a wok much, but when we do the center, 18k burner provides more than enough power. The small burner is great for simmering. The other big burner, 15k, on the right can keep water boiling as you ad pasta, something my old stove could never accomplish.

The only annoying thing about the grill is that you need to use these little pan trivets if you use a small pan. Seems like they could have designed this better.

Two of my burners needed to be adjusted to simmer lower. Art Culinaire provided instructions for doing so. It was very simple to adjust.

We bought the griddle and grill pans. They came as a "buy one, get the other one free" deal. The grill is still in the box. If someone wants to buy it let me know. We use the BBQ. The griddle is good once you get used to it. It is F**ing heavy and it takes a while to get the temperature where you want it. I would just get a lighter weight one from a kitchen store.

The Ovens:

We have one gas and one, non-convection electric oven with broiler.

Oven size:
The ovens will take a half sheet pan lengthwise. When we do bake cookies we use two sheet pans and rotate them halfway through the cooking time. If you make a lot of cookies, this just may not work for you. You will probably want convection and a larger oven. This oven works just dandy for us.

Cooking a 20 pound turkey:
(Okay, we never really roast birds that big, but we typically do a 13 pounder.)
We have an all-clad 16"x13"x3" roasting pan. You put a turkey in it and it fits, just like the picture on Art Culinaire’s web site. BUT – grabbing the rear handle of the roaster requires some dexterity. The oven shelf is pushed back to its farthest position for the roaster to fit. The shelf does not just glide out. What we do is pull the roaster out until it is just about to fall off the shelf, then carefully grab the rear handle. We cook a turkey about twice a year, so for us this is not an impediment. There is a similar experience when using our large La Creuset pan.

We bought two pizza stones from Willy-Sonoma. They are rectangular and thick. Do not buy those thin things from other places. They always crack. We find putting them on the second to lowest oven shelf provided the best results. We turn both ovens to max. (Just an FYI for pizza makers. Like most people, we put corn meal on the peel to slide the pizza in. It works but always leaves a huge mess. Recently, we used parchment paper instead. I pull it out from under the pizza about half way through. Very tidy!)

The broiler works great. We don’t broil that often. We live in San Diego, so any broiling to be done is usually on the BBQ.

Oven Cleaning:
Take out all the stainless shelves and shelf guides. Spray with oven cleaner. Wait. Wipe. This is so not a big issue for us. We clean them every 4 months. I remember my previous, almost self-cleaning oven. It never did a very good job, and always left me uneasy with the heat it produced.

I don’t miss having a window. You could never see through them any way (see note about almost self-cleaning above)

I DO miss an oven light. Of all the things I could imagine complaining about, this is weird to me, yet it is so. You can’t see the top of the pizza.

In general, I would say the ovens are quite adequate, with the two exceptions of making large batches of cookies often and if you wish to cook a dinoturkeysouras. When we go to a friend’s for dinner, it is interesting to see the huge amount of space around whatever they are cooking in their oven. I like the Cluny’s efficiency in this regard. I get two useful ovens in less than 48" of stove width.

The drawers under the ovens work okay. I do a lot of woodwork, and the glides they use are not exactly top of the line but shouldn’t break.

Ventilation:

We live in a home built in 1959. There is a hole in the ceiling over the stove that leads outside. We were planning a remodel, but our old stove died before we could do the remodel (in fact we are still waiting.) Rather than buy an interim stove we just bought the Cluny. The stove is next to our back door, which is usually open when we cook. Yesterday we had Thanksgiving (everyone was out of town for real Thanksgiving) We had both ovens on and used all burners. This puppy puts out a huge quantity of heat. I cannot imagine using it without ventilation. We will be using a 900cfm VAH when we do remodel.

In general, we are totally thrilled with our stove and the decision to purchase it. Julia is a thing of great beauty and elegant simplicity. She has fulfilled our expectation completely. Well…except for that oven light.

Really bad joke huh? That is why I cook for a living. I sent the deposit today and now the hard part...waiting. But all of you seem to know a lot about waiting and why should I not have the same experience. I should see my Lacanche in May. I wonder if I'll give it a name.

OK now something useful. I found some great instructional videos that you might not know about at french ranges. If you need some adjusting and like to do things yourself, maybe these can help.

Happy holidays everyone!

Judy

My brother did a lot of the cooking on the Cluny for Xmas and loved it. The turkey we cooked was a bit less than 13 pounds.

We've had the "cooker" long enough now that I think I want to take the time to polish up the brass burners ... just to see them shine again. I do not have a problem with them tarnishing... it will just be nice to see them shine again.

I hope everyone had happy holidays !! We love our Lacanche (bought sight unseen like many of you) and have absolutely no regrets.

Happy New Year to all!!

On Christmas Eve morning we baked an apple pie (two pies actually, but only one was for Christmas). In the evening we baked two loaves of semolina bread. On Christmas Day we oven braised a Yankee Pot Roast with potatoes, onions and carrots in a chicken broth/beef broth liquid. The only seasoning was salt, pepper and fresh thyme. No racing around, no craziness in the kitchen, just a leisurely day to enjoy with our kids.

The (gas) oven in our Cormatin performed flawlessly. Our daughter-in-law asked for the recipe for the pot roast. The bread had a nice crust and wonderful smell even the next day. The apple pie looked like a cookbook illustration and tasted better than it looked. (It's hard to beat a 50/50 mix of Macintosh and Granny Smith apples.)

I made a Christmas goose on Christmas Eve with fruit and chestnut stuffing and roasted potatoes with some of the goose fat. FANTASTIC.

My ovens never seem to hold a consistent temperature. I can't figure out what the deal is. I've learned to live with it, and work around it. It's not serious, just five degrees in either direction.

Happy New Year everyone!

Ivette

Joe

I am interested in either the Volnay or the Cluny 1400. Originally, just the Volnay, but after this holiday season I felt the need for a bigger cooktop area, therefore, the Cluny 1400. The Cluny ovens measurements show 15.7" in width and I believe that is interior measurements, correct? I have the same All-Clad roasting pan, but mine measures 15.25" in width, so that would be a tight fit unless I put it in handles front to back. I also have the Gagg Combi and the 27" Gagg conv which are great, but I do miss a gas oven. I guess my question to you would be overall do you feel the Cluny's oven size is adequate for most of your roasting? Or would you have preferred the bigger oven size of the Volnay?
Thanks...Maria

The pan will not fit with the handles on the sides. The handles make the pan about 17.5". The only way to put the roaster in the oven is front to back. Let me see if I can elaborate, without making this overcomplicated.

The oven racks in the cluny, in their normal position, do not go all the way to the rear of the oven. There is also a small, upturned lip on the back of the rack. In order to put the roaster (or for that matter a half-sheet pan) in the oven, the rack needs to be pushed further back. This puts the rack lip against the rear of the oven. The roasting pan will now slide in but the front will over hang the rack a couple of inches - not really a problem. What IS kind of an issue though, is removing the pan after it has gotten hot, especially with something tall in it like a turkey. You have to pull the pan forward. Then, before it falls off the rack, you need to reach over the turkey to grab the rear handle. This is doable without burning the top of your hand on the oven roof, but you need to pay attention! If the racks slid out more easily, this would be less of an issue, but once loaded with a heavy turkey and pushed to the rear of the oven, they just don't slide that easily.

My personal opinion about the oven size is that, for my use, they are more than adequate. We use both ovens fairly often and only something the size of a turkey presents the issue noted above. We make turkey two or three times a year.

Hope that helps. -Joe

Color me relieved.

Ivette