if you could use the xtra counter space, then yes.

otherwise..........

I am not familiar with the Advantium and cannot address how it would do in those roles, but the Miele speed oven I *am* familiar with and I can tell you that it will do everything the microwave and toaster and convection oven can do, only better.

Plus, you are not giving up an oven. The Miele is a great oven. It heats up really quickly, bakes most things in about 2/3 the time of a conventional oven (due to the outstanding convection system) and that is not taking into account that it will bake even faster when you select a microwave/convection or broiler/microwave or broiler/convection mode. About the only thing the Miele can't do is accept really large dishes or do large bird roasting. It is only 8" tall and is really only good for one good sized dish at a time or a couple small ones. Some here will tell you that you can buy additional racks for them, and you can, but you will have a hard time fitting anything larger than strips of bacon into one with multiple trays inserted. The cavity is really about the size of a decent microwave. The rack positions are more for getting stuff properly positioned for broiling than anything else.

The newest models from Miele feature a lower broiling element in addition to the upper one and that may make them better for doing pizza than mine, but my slightly older model really is not suitable for baking pizza as it lacks the heated floor necessary to keep the stone hot.

If you can afford the cost of one I predict that you will not be unhappy about owning a Miele speed oven.

I have a similar question, so I'm interested in the responses.

But maybe your question boils down to whether you use both the microwave and the toaster oven at the same time, such as making breakfast.

I have an Advantium 240 that is my microwave, though I tend to use my combi-steam oven for a small oven more, because of its location near the stove, mostly, and also because I don't have to change out the tray. It holds quite a bit on the convection oven setting if you use both the tray and the wire rack. I've only done it for rewarming, so far. It works fine as a microwave.

What it doesn't do well is toast. I bought a smallish toaster oven on loss leader special just for making flat (rather than vertical) toast, and keep it in a drawer since we don't make toast all that often.

Hm... this isn't so much help. I haven't used mine enough yet. I will say that the concept sounds good in your situation. I got mine instead of a microwave for the extra oven capacity, and what little I've done works great.

I saw a show about Class A motorhomes recently where there was an OTR style Advantium, serving as both MW and oven for full-timers.

antss: I could definitely use the extra counter space, but I guess I don't want to go this route unless I'm pretty sure it will be a functional solution. If I end up getting frustrated and putting a MW and a toaster oven back on the counter, I will have wasted some $$ on this oven that I could have invested elsewhere. Do I sense from you post that you have doubts or am I reading too much into your "otherwise..."?

mojavean: The Miele speed oven sounds great! I'll definitely look into it further. I do wish it were a bit cheaper. It costs about twice as much as the Advantium--but maybe that's because it's twice as good :-)

canishel: You raise a very interesting Q about competition for the oven. I don't think that would be a big problem, but it's something I should think about further.

pillog: It's very useful to know that the Advantium 240 doesn't toast very well. I wonder if that's also true of the Advantium 120? I know the two models used to have some different features and were supposed to excel at slightly different things (e.g., the 240, with more power, is certainly faster at speed cooking, I believe).

Any other Advantium owners out there who'd care to weigh in?

I'm planning on a built-in convection oven and the 240 Advantium. I may keep my toaster for awhile to see if I like toast made in the oven, and I'm sure there will be occasions when I'm using the Advantium as my oven and I need a microwave, but I don't think this will happen that often. The biggest advantage of the Advantium 240 for me is that there are quite a few things I could make for dinner during the week after work that simply take too long with my conventional oven so I can currently only make those dishes on the weekend. Most posters seem to like their Advantiums, BTW. HTH!

Thanks, flwrs_n_co, and everyone else. I gather from previous GW posts that there are many fans of both Advantiums and Miele speed ovens. I just wonder how many people use them in place of MWs and/or toaster ovens--rather than in addition to them...I never thought of my kitchen as small until I started planning this remodel and realized how many things I wanted just wouldn't fit!

Although this won't work for the original poster (it's 30" rather than 27"), I wonder how the Thermador speed oven (Masterpiece Series DM301ES) compares to the Miele oven. Unlike the Miele, it's a full-size oven (4.4 cu ft). The other significant difference is that the microwave in the Thermador is only 600 watts, but otherwise it seems that the convection and speed cooking modes are similar. We used to have an Advantium 120 in our prior house and we're researching speed oven possibilities now. One feature we used fairly often in the advantium was the warm/proof mode. The Thermador has this, but it does not appear that the Miele does -- and I'm afraid that the oven cavity size of the Miele speed oven might be too small for proofing dough anyway. With the larger Advantium, I had to be careful or my proofing dough would rise to the point of touching the top of the oven when I had a 10-11 lb batch of dough.

We just got our Advantium 120 installed, yesterday. Kitchen still doesn't have running water so making elaborate meals in the Advantium is out of the question for the moment. Toast, that I can handle. I'll test this out and report back.

For what it's worth, whether or not it makes tasty toast (and how long it takes to do so), I still won't ditch my toaster as there will be times when both are needed. For brunch, for example, I may want to use the Advantium to cook something and keep it warm and at the same time, I'd probably need to make toast.

Anyway, I'll let you know what happpens.

You're right, scott_s, the Thermador is too big for me to consider, but hopefully someone will chime in about the Thermadors for those of you who have space for 30" models. More generally, you've raised an issue that's worth thinking about: possible limitations associated with the size of the (24") Miele.

galleycook: I'll be looking forward to seeing your toast test results. Thanks! Your point about keeping a toaster regardless, however, is a good one. I don't actually own a toaster right now and the toaster oven is getting old and grungy enough that I won't want to keep it after the remodel--but I could always purchase a toaster and keep it in a drawer or a closet for the situations you've mentioned.

Test results are in. The Advantium 120 toasted the English muffins like a champ! They came out crispy and delicious. The tops were less brown but we actually preferred the texture and taste. It took 8 minutes on the Speedcook setting for Belgian waffles. (There's likely another/better way to toast but we were too hungry to figure it out.) Given that we've always kept our two-slot toaster hidden on a bottom shelf, it's probably faster and easier to use the Advantium. In terms of energy, as we have to run the toaster twice for two English muffins, I don't really know which is a more green approach but someone here probably does. HTH.

That's great news, galleycook. Thanks for testing and reporting back!

And therein lies the difference: We want a good, crunchy, caramelized top on toast, i.e., browning, and that's what I didn't like in toasting in the Advantium. So I guess it comes down to how you like your toast to come out. I actually have room to keep my $25 toaster oven on the counter, but it's so light it's easier to plug it in in the eating area, and to pick it up, empty the crumbs into the sink, and put it back in the drawer.

One thing to be aware of with the Advantium, since you'll be using it for so many things, is that you'll be swapping trays a lot. Since you're remodelling, it's vital to put storage for the accessories right handy to the Advantium. GE actually make a stainless drawer for the trays, that probably takes the least space, but I don't think it even holds the wire rack. I had a drawer installed between my Advantium and the warming drawer under it. That's big enough for all the trays, the rack, microwave dish covers, potholders and aprons. A tall narrow cabinet might work just as well. The important thing is not to think the bottom drawer, or across the kitchen or whatever, will be convenient enough. Everyone I know who did that hates it, and says she doesn't use the full capabilities of the Advantium because it's just too much trouble. The trays need their own space, where there's nothing blocking them, and where they're easy to put in and out on the fly. This could be a section of a larger tray cupboard, but you don't want them hard to get out, piled with other things, or anything like that. Since you're doing a stack, it might work to have them in a drawer under the main oven, but don't make it a single deep drawer. Do a shallow one for the Advantium stuff, and whatever under that.

How interesting that people's opinions about what constitutes good toasting capabilities are so different. I wish there were somewhere in my area where I could actually see the Advantium in action, as there is for the Miele speed oven.

That's great advice about storage, pillog. Thanks! I had seen the stainless drawer listed as an option, but it looks as if it's only for the 30" unit, not the 27" unit. Thus, I was figuring that I'd need a storage space, but I confess that I'd been thinking I could use whatever space I ended up with for other trays and such in the kitchen. It's really helpful to know that I'd be best off with a dedicated space for the Advantium accessories. How deep a drawer would you recommend?

You don't need much depth at all, really. My own drawer is bigger than need be. I have two trays, one grill tray, and one glass. (Mine came with the extra solid tray, but I don't know if all models do.) All together, with none in the oven, they're about exactly 2" stacked. The wire rack is another fraction of an inch, so 3" deep (interior) would be plenty. If you are planning a deep drawer under your oven stack, you could put a ROTS inside it (Roll Out Tray Shelf) to hold them, which would use up less vertical space than an exterior drawer, though it would mean opening two things to get at them. Because you'll need to have some cabinetry (i.e., wood) between the Advantium and the oven, you could also put a drawer between, and might actually save an inch or two in total.

I'm assuming you're intending to put the Advantium on top since it doesn't really like being mounted low. It does have a drop down door, so make sure that you don't mount it too high for safety and ease.

The trays are more than 16" in diameter. The wire rack is 13" wide.

They'd also be fine in a 3" slot if you have a vertical tray cupboard handy, but I wouldn't want to put the glass tray on end without a solid divider, rather than a half height or wire one.

One caution, I totally get saving the three inches, but it does look like 27" ovens are on their way out, so if you can at all do it, it might be good to make sure you can refit with a 30" should one die some years down the way.

Thanks, pillog. The dimensions and storage suggestions are extremely helpful.

As for the 27" vs. 30", I'd love to have a 30" but the problem is how to fit one in. I'm working around various obstacles (e.g., a chimney) and fixed features (e.g., unmovable doors and some unmovable walls) that limit what we can do with the space. On the other hand, I hadn't thought about what would happen if the 27" ovens die and replacements can't be found. The current ovens are decades old and still work fine, but I guess that's not likely to repeat itself, given the life expectancy of current appliances. It may be time to look at those plans again and see if there's a way to steal 3 inches...

Some of it depends on how long you expect the new kitchen to last. Some people do a kitchen for 10 years. I'm from the minimum 40 years school. If you think your new kitchen will need a major overhaul after 10 or 15 years, you don't need to worry so much.

I'm with you. I can't imagine doing a major overhaul in 10-15 years. I want to do get it right this time and then not have to think about it for a long, long time.

I'm in the same school as Pillog and Carol08. When our kitchen needs redone again, we will be looking at daiseys "From the root side"

Pillog: I am considering an Advantium and warming drawer arrangement similar to yours. Do you find that when the warming drawer is on, the stuff inside your drawer gets hot? Is there any temperature sensitive stuff for the Advantium that will get warped due to the heat. Many thanks for the details on your drawer.

pllog, I appreciate those details about storage dimensions for the trays very much, too. Thank you!

Firstcook, the accessory drawer doesn't get hot, but there's a lot of wood in between. I was concerned one day that the pullout next to the warming drawer was getting hot, so I've been checking, and it doesn't seem to if it's only on for an hour. It might be that after four hours it does. If I do find that happening, I may look into seeing if I can get added insulation.

Oh, and by "hot" I mean noticably warm. I was worried for the bread in the pullout getting staled. Cookware would be fine.

Pillog, thank you for the details. Our kitchen plans are slowly coming together.

Pillog, thanks for your detailed storage suggestions - that is so very helpful!