I looked at the 30 inch professional Electrolux today and it was beautiful - pro style handles, etc. I compared it side by side with the Wolf and MUCH preferred the Electrolux. It was under your price point by a bit, but that might have been the floor model discount. It was super and I will likely get it as well.

This is the one I looked at

http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/E30EW85GPS.html?mv_pc=fr&utm_source=google&utm_medium=base

athensmomof3,

Why do you "MUCH" prefer the Electrolux over the Wolf?

Also, which Wolf did you look at, the E series or the L series?

I can't remember - L I think. The one with the hidden stainless panel. My major dislike was the ULTRA heavy door with the hydrolic hinges. I had the same reaction to the door in the Wolf range and the Viking wall ovens. I am sure there is a reason why it was so heavy but I really didn't like it at all - enough to rule it out completely regardless of the other (if any) benefits. I don't buy the "its heavy because it is built better" either. . . To me it was a fatal design flaw.

I liked the ball bearing racks on the Electrolux icon professional, liked the styling as well or better, actually had a slightly larger rack (but same oven size I think if we measured correctly), and generally just liked the Electrolux better and they were essentially side by side in the showroom.

I was assured by the appliance store guy that of all the appliances they sell and service, Wolf has the best track record line wide for least repairs (Viking had the most with F&P dish drawers following). He also told me he thought the Electrolux oven was a great product, they had very few if any problems with them and he thought that even though the Wolf was a very good oven that the Electrolux was also an excellent product. It is roughly 3k less as well.

As I am already tied in to the SZ 736 fully integrated all fridge, it would be nice to save some money on the ovens and really I think either option is vastly superior to anything I have ever cooked in!

good info. thanks athensmomof3. I thought the Wolf was cool (and liked that crazy door, personally), but am not going to spend more than my allowance, much as I love the high end stuff. My Jenn Air has been just fine and I do tons and tons of bread baking. If the Jenn Air has been fine then I figure an Electrolux will be just fine.

The bummer for me, was that I just want KNOBS! and to get KNOBS it seems I have to spend at least $5000. Seems crazy to me, but oh well.

:)

Yes, the knobs issue is the only thing that's held me back from placing my Electrolux oven order. But soon I'm going to have to bite the bullet and make a decision.

Jenmenke, I also bake bread a lot (about once a week). Do you know what the maximum temperature is on the Electrolux? That's one thing I forgot to ask about.

I was originally thinking I would want to find a steam feature for bread baking but that doesn't seem to be common. I don't want a dedicated steam oven, just the option to use it when I bake bread. Was that anything you looked into?

I would love knobs so let me know if there is one out there in a decent price range. The wave touch thing concerns me only because it is electronic and I don't like electronics :)

I do think, unlike some other brands, Electrolux hasn't had the issues with self clean burning up the electronics, at least I hadn't heard of it.

The aj madison site I linked to has reviews on the professional icon. One of the reviews is from a bread baker and she loves it. Worth reading.

I have just about decided that it is the one I am getting because seems to balance quality/looks/affordability.

Oh and the door thing - I guess it wouldn't be heavy if you let the hydrolics work but I move through my life at the speed of light and wouldn't be patient enough to wait for it to slowly lower :)

I have an electrolux double oven - installed in March this year. I wanted white so it is not the Icon unit. I think the controls/features are similar though.

I also love baking bread, and love the proofing cycle. I usually set the lower oven at 90 -95 for proofing. I have these plastic containers with marks on the side so it is real easy for me to tell when the bread has doubled in the first rise.

When the bread has risen again and is ready to bake, I preheat the upper oven to bake the bread so it does not have to sit out at a cooler temp while the oven heats up. I don't have the steam feature but have experimented with putting a pan of boiling water in the lower rack before putting in the bread.

The highest I can set my oven is 550 deg.

I also have convection in both ovens. I have used the multi stage baking (like for setting pie crusts and then baking at a lower temp) and have used the probe. Love how roasts and poultry come out using the "perfect turkey" and "convection roast" options.

I have never had a real nice oven before, so I am still having a lot of fun with this one.

"""I am sure there is a reason why it was so heavy but I really didn't like it at all - I don't buy the "its heavy because it is built better" either. . . To me it was a fatal design flaw.""""

Regarding a Wolf oven, maybe your salesperson should have said "It's heavy because it's more insulated."??
And this is just what you can see on one side. An oven has 6 sides, like a box.

Also the salesperson was possibly aware that when the Electrolux oven is in use, the heat vents from directly below the control panel. Speaking of fatal design flaws, this heat has been the leading cause of control panel failure on most ovens regardless of manufacturer in the past twenty years. In fact, several manufacturers have learned this hard way, like Dacor.

A Wolf oven vents from below the door and the air intake is above the door. This design, opposite of Electrolux, keeps the panel cool and should be applied to all ovens.

My point is, this Electrolux oven, in all its glory, uses mostly a GLASS window for insulation when in use. And it has self clean. Since you will feel the heat through the vent when the Electolux oven is in use, I guess insulation isn't so important.

A classic example of form over function, with a blitzkreig of Kelly and hype. This tactic is similar to LG's marketing from 6-8 years ago, creating an initial splash but with no substance.

Electrolux is a more substantial company and does make some fine products. This one just doesn't pass the smell test with me.

BTW, Wolf doesn't make a 27 inch oven.

Um, self clean is a PRO to me as someone who hates to clean and hires all that stuff out :) but loves a clean house.

I have heard nothing but good things from Electrolux owners and have never heard of control panel failure from self clean with this brand. I asked the appliance store and they hadn't either, although they had with others.

And frankly, just don't want an oven with a 10 pound door. I lift weights 3x a week now and it still felt heavy to me. To my thin, non muscular 67 year old mother it was prohibitively heavy. If you are 220 it may be fine but not for those who weigh half that. . .

Well, that vent thing is a little worrisome for me. I bake my bread at pretty high temperatures. It's not unusual for me to crank the oven to 500 degrees.

I wonder if this is not an issue for most people who don't use an oven that hard. For me, will create more wear and tear?

Having said that, I agree with you, athensmomof3 about heavy oven doors. I passed on a well priced, 2nd hand but barely used Viking double oven and warming drawer for that very reason. Just too much steel for me.

We only have the single Elux 30" Icon oven. It has been trouble free for more than 4 years. Elux used to advertise the oven door as "The coolest Door in the Industry" and indeed it stays cool. The air that comes out the vent is just barely precetably warm alto I think the highest I have tested it on is 400F.

The wavetouch controls are very intuitive (easy to use) and nary a problem with them---I have them on my Elux Speed oven too and even thou it sometimes gets messy fingerprints on it--(from my Danish), it never misses a beat.

We had "No Budget Constraints" when we picked the Elux Oven, We liked the glide racks, the way it was lit inside, the big window in the door---So it was the oven we wanted and we still feel that way---now the fact that it is half the price of a Miele, and a lot less than a Wolf---well I didn't sob too long about that (LOL).

As mentioned, I have never seen a post on GW, or anywhere else where a control board had failed, after cleaning.
We did see 3 posts about problems with the cobalt interior flaking also saw 3 about Wolf and 3 about another oven I can't recall. Only one Elux Poster bother to follow through with the fix---They gave her a new oven ande I think it's been about 6 months since replacement and She is very happy with it. From the Post we read, Wolf did not want to replace the oven but the Oven liner instead---I don't ever recall seeing a post on how that was resolved.

Anyway, whatever decision you make, I hope you enjoy the performance and reliabilty in it, as much as macybaby, and my wife & I.

Gary

We installed the same Electrolux double convection oven that macbaby referenced a year ago. One month in, after the first cleaning, the mother board went out. Called Electrolux and they promptly replaced board (indicated they had a problem with them) Since then, no problem.
Thinks I like
Heats to exact temperature
Roll out racks are great
bread proofing setting
temp probes

Thinks I don't like
because of the ball bearings in the roll out racks, you have to remove them when cleaning. Hence the racks either stay stained or you have to clean them with oven cleaner.

Great oven, love it, would buy again in a heartbeat.
Bought at a Sears outlet store, new in the box for about half of retail

Things I have noticed in using my Electrolux

1. It stays remarkably cool - way cooler than my 6 year old free standing range it replaced.

2. the venting appears to be to keep the exterior cool - it must have some fans and they circulate air around the outside of the unit (inside the cabinets). You can feel the warm air, but I don't think it is venting from the INSIDE of the oven.

3. I have put in a pan of boiling water, and when I open the oven I get a huge cloud of steam - and noticed NO MOISTURE on the exterior vents. I have have also (blushing) burnt some items, and I have a cloud of smoke when I open the oven door, but did not realize I had a problem until I opened the door. With my old range, I would have noticed it long before by the smoke and smell coming from the oven.

4. I also noticed that when I am baking something, I don't get that yummy smell permeating the entire house like I use to. I can still usually smell something baking, but until I open the oven door, the smell is rather mild.

I had saved up $5000 for the cooktop and wall ovens. I also live in the middle of nowhere so I wanted to pick something that I could get service on.

I'm also glad my oven wasn't any heavier - DH and I hauled and installed it ourselves.

I know - it's pretty sad when you are in love with your oven.

I am in the midst of a big kitchen/house renovation. Planned on getting the Wolf 48" range until I heard how long it took to preheat. A friend has one and it took her 30 minutes to heat up the larger 30" oven of the two. Another friend has the 36" single oven/range and it also took 30 plus minutes. Wolf response was that all ovens typically take 20 minutes to preheat because the cavity is heated not just the ambient air. AND that less heat loss occurs when the oven door is opened. My old Jennair convection oven takes 7 minutes. I need much quicker preheat than even 20 or heaven forbid 30 minutes. Busy family of preteens. Therefore, Electrolux has my attention. Can any of you shed more light on preheat times? Loved the Wolf, didn't mind the heavy door, especially in the double oven, but don't want to wait that long!

"""As mentioned, I have never seen a post on GW, or anywhere else where a control board had failed, after cleaning."""

That would mean that you have never seen a complaint about any of Dacor's pre-2005 ranges,but in my experience this has been the major complaint about Dacor. This has seriously affected their reputation. The conundrum is you can't have one without the other.

That being said, Dodge probably does know more about the Electrux oven than anyone and if they say it doesn't get hot, it must not.

My information was strictly technical from the Electrolux owners manual page 16-19 I believe where it says in BOLD this oven will get VERY HOT.

Interesting because they talk about the cool touch door as one of the most touted features. . . .

The long preheat really worried me about the Wolf as well. Plus I really would like to have two ovens. One and a half is probably not enough because when I need two, I could really use 3 :). And that second oven is really tiny. In fact, I would do the 60" over the 48".

I would love to hear the preheat experience as well. My parents redid their beach condo and put in a Kenmore Pro range. It takes FOREVER to preheat and it drives me nuts (and my mother more so). She has 17 year old GE Monogram double ovens at home that preheat in 7 minutes and this takes 20. Likewise, I just roasted some veggies for dinner in my Whirlpool 17 year old builders grade coil range. . . 5 minutes to reach 425. . .

The other thing that concerns me about the Wolf is the lack of a kitchen timer. I assume the Electrolux has one. I use my constantly for everything (not just cooking, but time outs, minutes to bed, etc.) and would be at a loss without it!

Another question about the Wolf and their explanation about heating the oven - since the majority of the world doesn't cook with Wolf ovens ;) wouldn't you think most recipes are calibrated to how normal ovens heat and preheat?

The Elux has a kitchen timer and the button in the wavetouch controls is labelled "Kitchen Timer"
It beaps 3 times every 15 seconds once it has timed out until you touch the kitchen timer button again, so if ya missed the first beep, it tries again, every 15 seconds.
Next week I can preheat and time the oven to 350F or 400F whatever you like. It is still slower than your old oven of 7 minutes , Im sure.

Gary

Gaggenau 27" Aluminum Double Oven EB294-600 NEW 4 $3250 delivered.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gaggenau Double 27

took 12 minutes to heat to 350 deg. Ambient room temp was about 85. Once the unit gets up around 300 deg, it raised very fast so I don't think it would take much longer to get it up to 450.

However supper tonight (BBQ rabbit) cooks at 350.

Reminds me of another feature I really like - it displays the actual temp, not the setting. So you can watch it heat up.

the double oven has two timers. DH loves the chimes it makes - he hates the normal BEEB and BUZZ. He thinks the three notes it sounds when it reaches Temp sound like "cam-a-lot" from one of his favorite musicals.

Macybaby, Thanks for the preheat info. I like it. 12 minutes i can live with. Do most large retailers sell Elux? Have never seen one. A neighbor friend bought one recently and told me she loves it. Athensmom ~ cannot imagine not having a timer for time outs! ha! DH just accused me of being on "Kitchen Facebook" true....but way more helpful. thanks.

I think many new oven have hidden bake elements vice older ovens with exposed bake elements. This no doubt impacts the pre-heat time. But e'lux has a rapid pre-heat adding in the convection element, which I assume most people would use as default. Macybaby, is the 12 min time using the rapid pre-heat?

I haven't read anything in my manual about any "rapid preheat" setting - maybe that is the default and you can set it to regulare preheat . . . I just select what ever bake cycle I want, set the temp and hit "start".

I do know that while heating it cycles the different heat elements, and it also runs the convection fan. I can see where this may cause problems if you were baking something where you wanted it to start cold and heat up more gradually- or have bottom heat only during the heat up cycle.

However I have not noticed that it does that type of "heating up" if I increase the tempurature once it has reached the setting. When I do that, it only uses the heat cycle that I have selected.

Now I'll have to go look through my manual again to see if there is anyting about a "rapid preheat" cycle - will have to wait until I get home (and then only if I still remember LOL!)

Cathy

Here is the instructions from the ICON double oven manual re: rapid preheat

RAPID PREHEAT

The Preheat feature will bring the oven up to temperature faster than a regular preheat and then
indicate when to place the food in the oven. Preheating is not necessary when roasting or cooking
casseroles. The oven can be programmed to preheat at any temperature between 170°F to 550°F
with some of the cooking modes; Bake, Convection Bake and Convection Roast.
IMPORTANT: The rapid preheat feature is for single rack ONLY. The heat distribution with
multiple rack will be uneven.
To set a rapid preheat (example is for a 350°F Bake):
1. Select oven by pressing either UPPER OVEN UPPER
OVEN or LOWER OVEN LOWER
OVEN.
2. Press BAKE .
3. Press COOK OPTIONS . The cook options items will light up.
4. Press RAPID PREHEAT .
5. Press START to begin the baking with the rapid preheat feature enabled.
6. Place food in the oven when the chime signals and PRE-HEATING message disappears
indicating that the oven has reached the set target temperature.

Man. these newfangled ovens are DElux! Sometimes don't you just wish to go back to the days with two knobs though? I'm such a gadget head with other stuff, but just like with my washer, with umpteen million choices, I usually only use one or two of the options...

Yep, but ya can play "Kiss" with the Elux oven. Hit the bake button, enter the temp,hit the start (It even lites up in green). If preheating is needed just wait 12 mins or so.
So like a car with many options, Cruise control, autoheadlight dimming, etc etc, ya can just get it and drive it "Conventionally"--(Using the pedals)

Gary

jenmenke, have you decided on which oven yet?

Have you looked at Bosch? Has knobs.

Still trying to decide myself....

Love my Wolf ovens. I had a Viking before and wouldn't recommend it. Timer on the Wolf is great, also love the pizza stone option and built in temperature probe. Would definitely get it again. It's the electric option.

We have had good luck with our Bosch oven with knobs...

We are interested in replacing our old oven with a new (reliable) double wall oven. We just started our research and I have been all over the GW site. From what I have read so far it seems Wolf commands the greatest respect and Electrolux is considered a great value.

If we do go with the Wolf, it would most likely be the E series. Is the Wolf that much better than the Electrolux Icon?

AJMadison in NY has the Electrolux Double Wall Oven listed at $3,299. Over the weekend I stopped by a PC Richard and Son and could have sworn I saw the Wolf E series priced at $4,799. What are the prices you are getting for Wolf E series?

Lastly, someone wrote about getting a discount on Wolf appliances by negotiating with the Wolf rep/distributor to allow the store to give you a discount. I remember reading a post about this but can't locate it now no matter what I search for. This person talked about getting some significant savings. If you know the post I am talking about please provide a link. Has anyone else been able to negotiate a discount on Wolf?

Like Centraljerseyguy, I have spent hours reading this forum and have come up with the following for double ovens:

Best/Top of the line: Gaggenau
Best/Top of Line 2: Miele (but have problems),Turbo Chef, and Wolf
Midrange: Electrolux

So, I have to replace my double oven. Choice is to buy 2 and stack them or an integrated one which is cheaper. Here are my needs/wants:

1) Fast pre-heat
2) Constant and even temperatures - I do lots of roasting and baking
3) would love some sort of steam/proofing function
4) fast cooking - but not microwave (must be at least convection)
5) Self-clean
6) gliding racks - at least 1 but 2 would be great

So the question,
1) two ovens or 1?
2) if two, which ones - a turbochef and a electrolux?
3) I have no budget but do want a bang for my buck -- I think $5k should be okay (not Gaggenau, of course-- may be when I hit the lottery!)

thank you for your input.