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Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

Posted by needinfo1 (My Page) on
Sat, Jul 12, 14 at 12:28

I just finished a dishwasher purchase and had seriously considered the Miele but ended up with a different brand. One of the arguments everyone here seems to give about purchasing a Miele rather than other European brands is that their components and production are only from Germany. Apparently that is not the case. I ran across a blog written by a guy who follows the European appliance market, and in an article in which he discusses the reasons so many European appliance companies are moving their production to Eastern European countries, he says the following:

"This is not a new issue. For many years, mass production has moved away from high-wage Western Europe. BSH has moved to Poland and Turkey. A large Electrolux plant was closed in Nuerenberg, the origin of their German AEG brand, and Swedish top brand Asko, owned by Gorenje, moved production to the main location in Slovenia. Even premium brand Miele produces outside Germany."

Here's the link to the entire article. http://www.appliancedesign.com/blogs/14-appliance-design-blog/post/94024-electrolux-and-the-italian-disease


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

If you look at Miele's corporate site, they list all the factories they operate and what is produced there. It's not a mystery.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Production Plants


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

Interesting, Alerievay, but that doesn't seem to include parts. The boxes for Miele's column fridges/freezers are made at the BSH plant in Turkey, which I read once was originally a Miele plant.

American point of origin rules have an algorithm for how much of the item can be produced overseas and still say Made in USA on the label. I'm sure the same is true for Europe. So, perhaps, if Miele wants to say Made in Germany, it only has to assemble, or maybe produce 20% of parts and assemble, or something, rather than having every bolt and semiconductor made there.

Needinfo1, it doesn't really matter so long as you're happy with your purchase. I've never heard the "made completely in Germany" line as a reason for buying Miele. Mostly, people are very satisfied with Miele products and service. There's nothing wrong with items made all over the world if they're made well.


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

Miele DISHWASHERS are made in Germany. I'm sure not all Miele products are. Back when Miele used to sell full size front load laundry in the US, those were not made in Germany.

I had seen Miele brochures and heard from salesmen that they also made all the significant parts themselves. Another member who had a bunch of Miele parts lying around proved that those statements were pure lies. Usually I can see through marketing BS but when a companies make definitive statements like that, I tend to trust them. In this case, I was mistaken. I apologize to anyone I mislead.


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

If you're not a servicer or a retailer I don't see why anyone would especially care where something is made. Many have a bias against China but own iphones.

So...as an owner I want to know it's good quality, value, will last a long time, that the service will be good, that I can get parts if needed and that the company will stand behind a lemon.

I recently had to junk a washer and perfectly good dryer because the control board which needed replacement had been discontinued and there wasn't one anywhere in the world. Seriously, I tried Australia. The repair guy thought he could solder it but there was no guarantee of hot water. Not a great recommendation for any brand with basically 2 years of fulltime use.

My 10 y.o. made-in-america fridge has had 2 recalls (faulty door hinges) and the freon had to be replaced after 8 years. The fan sounds like a swarm of bees. My former Liebherr was so much better -- that said made in Austria but who knows.

If it's reliable and can be serviced, I don't care if it's made on the moon. Really I don't.


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

"If you're not a servicer or a retailer I don't see why anyone would especially care where something is made"

I agree with you, but it's a matter of honesty. There's nothing wrong with sourcing your parts elsewhere (that's what everyone else does) but you saying you make EVERYTHING yourself if you actually don't is wrong.


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

"components AND production are ONLY from Germany."

Who said this , or where did you read it ? On the internet ???

I don't believe any Miele propaganda says this.

So , your insinuation of MIELE not being honest is a bit disingenuous don't you think ?


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

Not sure if you're talking to me, but I found a Miele brochure saying:

The high quality standards which Miele has set itself are the main reason why the key components are produced in-house. Even the controls for our appliances are produced at Miele’s own electronics production plant.

Jakvis found the following Miele DW parts, and he was fairly certain that other significant ones such as the main circulation pump were also outsourced.
Motor capacitor - made by Novatronics
D/W Control - Made by Tyco
Spray control motor - Made by Dexun
Blower motor made by EBM-Papst

The real lies I was referencing did not come from Miele themselves but a salesman writing about the benefits of Miele appliances online who claims that ALL Miele dishwasher parts EXCEPT the rollers on the racks were made themselves.


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

xedos--

Re-read what I posted.

Did I say that the Miele "propaganda" (your term) states this?

In my pre-purchase research, I read many, many of the old Gardenweb threads on dishwashers. Over the years many people here on this forum have advocated that Miele is the best because it is more pure German quality. This is why I posted the link--so others here could read and draw their own conclusions.

I'm happy with what I purchased, and I am sure Miele would have also been a good decision. Having visited many different parts of eastern and central Europe, I am familiar with the challenges those areas face and the strengths they have. Thus, I do not go along with the thinking that a purely western-Europe-produced product is a significant enough reason to buy one brand over another.


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

It's not worth arguing about what "key components" means. Since Miele are really proud of making their own electronics, to them "key" might mean the parts that make their units different from other units, like the pretty red button (hypothetical) rather than the motor, since motors are pretty basic and time tested. Of course the machine doesn't work without motors, so it would make sense to the rest of us if they were "key".

There are all kinds of weird legal standards that define what "made" means in technical ways that don't jibe with ordinary expectation. If they combine the parts they buy into something new that they've made, in a way that's in accord with those laws, then they can say they made the final gizmo. It's all very murky.

Imagine a quilt. Sally buys a kit with everything included and sews it, and quilts it on a quilting machine, at the quilting store, with programmed patterns. Jenny buys a pattern book, but chooses her own fabrics, thread and batting, and cuts it all out and sews it together and and her bee helps her quilt it by hand. Rick designs his own quilt using traditional quilt block shapes, buys fabric which he then dyes to suit himself, cuts and sews it, and quilts it himself in traditional patterns that he lays out. Pat collects twigs and clay and roots and uses them to dye fabrics, which are then cut out and sewn into a wholly unique quilt top. With home-dyed to match threads and a wool batting that's been combed and carded from the sheep that have been raised for the purpose, Pat uses a combination of tying and quilting techniques to assemble the quilt in a unique way, then embellishes it with paint and beads made of found antlers, bits of waste glass and small rocks.

Which one "made" his or her own quilt?

(I think they all did...)


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

"Since Miele are really proud of making their own electronics"

But they actually don't.

Motor capacitor - made by Novatronics
D/W Control - Made by Tyco
Spray control motor - Made by Dexun
Blower motor made by EBM-Papst

None of this influences my overall opinion of Miele at all and none of this really matters to the consumer, but I don't blame needinfo1 for wanting to clear up some misconceptions.


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

oh I see, " a sales weasel told me"

even better.

I still stand by my statement that calling MIELE's integrity into question is below the belt in this case.

And, by the way , I read all of your statements carefully. Twice !

"I agree with you, but it's a matter of honesty. There's nothing wrong with sourcing your ( MIELE) parts elsewhere (that's what everyone else does) but you (MIELE) saying you (MIELE) make EVERYTHING yourself (MIELE) if you (MIELE) actually don't is wrong."

Again I ask - has Miele claimed they make everything themselves or entirely in Germany ?

Lots of salesmen claim lots of things, sometimes out of ignorance or desperation, and sometimes because they are downright sleazy.

Taking what they claim as gospel or even to think it came down from on high is a bit naive.

So, I think your characterization that Miele is being dishonest here is not fair or even accurate.


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

There were two sets of deceptive information. The more flagrant was from the salesman.

However, there was also the quote from the Miele brochure I posted above: "the key components are produced in-house. Even the controls for our appliances are produced at Miele’s own electronics production plant"

When a member here proved that false with a main control board made by Tyco, not Miele.

Read my post again. I never said Miele claimed they made EVERYTHING in Germany. I said Miele claimed they made their own parts, which you can see from the brochure quote.

I suppose it's possible that they outsourced parts for older models, which explains those parts from other manufacturers. And now all of a sudden they are making everything on their own. Highly unlikely though. That isn't exactly a change that's made overnight. Or maybe some models they make the control board themselves, others they outsource? Again, seems unlikely if they are going to bother building a dedicated electronics plant.

I don't think any of us doubt Miele is the highest quality on the market. That doesn't change the fact that I want to see facts about it, not hype.


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

Miele does build most of their electronics but not neccessarily all of their electronics.
All the parts use in a Miele have to pass Mieles quality control processes and I'm sure their engineers interface with the sourced parts vendors to ensure high quality parts are ensured.
I personally don't see any issue with Mieles statement that they have many different Miele owned factories building Miele parts. But nowhere does it state that all the parts, or only the parts used, in a Miele are manufactured only by Miele. This is apparently a leap that the unenlighted salesman made or assumed or just told you to get you to consider a higher dollar purchase that probably paid a higher commission and spiff.


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

"that probably paid a higher commission and spiff.'

this was not the case a few years ago.


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

Hi Xedos, Sorry to disagree with you, because we normally agree on most things, But sale commisions and Spiffs have been around a long, long, time. In part of my career in the appliance bussiness I was a sales person back in the 80's and early 90's and my commisions and Spiffs were the Major part of my income. My spiff checks alone would be over $500 and many times over $1000 per month. The high end appliances generally carried the highest commision percentage and also carried the highest spiffs.
I know some sales people who would look at the commision and spiff sheet at the begining of the week and make a decision to only steer customers to the highest paying pieces based on the customers purchase bracket.

Even when a sales floor is a "Non-Commision Floor" most sales persons still get spiff checks.

You should always have caution when a sales person says "let me show you something over here" They are gentlly guiding you to their better commision piece.

As always recommended by you, and most other Garen Webbers, a shopper should do their homework first, decide what they want, an stick to their decissions.


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

jakvis - I'm not sure we are disagreeing. I was just saying I don't remember miele's being higher than anyone else's.

We totally agree that some salespeople push products based on the "tip" sheet or that Hawaiian vacation carrot --- INSTEAD of what will benefit the customer most.

Human nature though.


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RE: Miele only produced in Germany--I don't know?

Our 12-year-old Miele vacuum says right on the bottom that it was assembled in China with parts made in Germany. It's the best vacuum we have ever owned by far. To this day, absolutely nothing has gone wrong with it.


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