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Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

Posted by wekick (My Page) on
Fri, Jul 5, 13 at 10:29

I have the Wolf 36 inch DF range and the enamel on the floor of the oven cavity has failed. It was 4 years 8 mos old. There is bare metal where the enamel has chipped off. In the past Wolf replaced appliances when this happened for those who had issues on this forum, even for a person who had double ovens that were over 4 years old. This oven has only been lightly used as it is a second oven and never at high heat. After haggling back and forth, they will give me the part and $325 towards labor which is estimated to start at $800 and can be more. This is a difficult repair and the cost of labor is based on an hourly rate for two techs and can vary based on their skill level, experience, speed, what else they might find etc. This would only have a one year warranty and given the ongoing issues, and my experience with blue porcelain(failue of blue enamel in 5 appliances in three brands), I am not sure I want to commit to an open ended reinvestment in "blue". So much for "decades of service" I thought I was buying according to their website.

Now what to do.

I can junk it and get something else but was wondering if the oven can be cut off leaving the rangetop or if something can be placed over the enamel on the floor. There are people who accidentally melt aluminum foil to the bottom and was thinking about something like that. My concern other than the eventual degradation of the floor of the oven is the glass shards of enamel finding their way into food or being inhaled.

Any other ideas?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

This could take SUBZERO/WOLF'S GOOD NAME DOWN!

I am SHOCKED to hear they will not replace your oven. They PRIDE themselves on excellent customer service. Haggle on with them-Wolf is being ridiculous!

May be time for a class action suit by Wolf oven owners against this ongoing, known-by-Wolf defect?


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

Start over. Write a letter. A real letter. Detail exactly what happened, when, who you talked to and what they said and reference other similar instances online (here and elsewhere) and Wolf's very different response to those people. Let them know this is not an acceptable solution. Send that letter via mail, fax (if you can find a number) AND email--not just one, as different areas/reps often intercept different communication. I'd be shocked, given this company's coveted reputation and previous responses to similar problems, if you didn't get a different response with persistence and a new person to look at your complaint.

And, just for information sake, as someone who just bought a Wolf oven, I'd be grateful if you returned here to report your eventual resolution ... Or lack thereof. (Fingers crossed it's not the latter.)

Good luck!


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

Tough call. Products have warranties for a certain period and things break after the warranty runs out. Very few, if any, products give you lifetime warranties. MANY manufacturers say tough luck after the warranty runs out.

Despite what previous posters have said, I think Wolf is making a serious offer by giving you the part and some of the labor. Is there any indication that the new part has solved the problem? If it were me, I'd take them up on the offer and get the oven fixed - of course I'd give it one more try to get them to cover more of the labor. A lot cheaper than junking the range and buying a new one.


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

I agree with applnut. Sometimes one well thought out letter works better than a hundred phone calls.

With the quality of things being the way they are, I've gotten into the habit of writing down the details of any problem, issue, phone call, service call, etc. right then when it happens. If by chance those instances start piling up, I have all the details documented and they come in pretty handy when trying to get an issue resolved.

Best of luck getting this resolved, wekick.


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

weissman,
I expect more out of Wolf than other companies because-from their own website.
"Every Wolf will have the performance and longevity our discerning customers expect"
"Long term reliability testing simulates extreme conditions and heavy use over many years of the most intense cooking scenarios.
"Wolf products are tested to perform beautifully for decades"
This is a part of the structure with known issues. It is not an igniter gone bad.

You pay a premium price for this expectation.

They have previously taken care of their customers with a higher level of service. This seems to be a change. They even tried to tell me at first crazing is normal.

It is unfair of them to expect me to assume the lions share and uncapped portion of the expense. There is no assurance this won't happen again in a year as we have seen on this forum. I specifically asked and they will only warranty the new liner for one year. Judging from the level of damage, the degradation of the liner of the oven has been going on for some time but I didn't notice it, with the oven being so low, like you would a wall oven.


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

This is who I would contact.

James J. Bakke

President and CEO Sub-Zero Wolf
4717 Hammersley Road
Madison, Wisconsin 53711

Phone: 608-271-2233
Fax: 608-270-3339
James.Bakke@subzero.com


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

I would try to hold off a while, wekick.

Why? I think you have correctly determined that this is a "Current" Wolf oven problem, (chipping enamel). We have seen brand new ovens (replacements for ovens with porcelain problems) have the problem reoccur in a very short time.

I would wait to see what kind of finish they have on their new upcoming model, and if it appears to be better, maybe push Wolf to recoat with that material.

As You said, You do, ( or will have) another functioning oven, and like you I would hate to spend ANY money only to see the porcelain fail again in a relatively short time.

Gary


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

I had a wall oven that was six months out of warranty when I noticed the porcelain chipping. Wolf offered me $500. They wouldn't do anything else. My local authorized Wolf repairman, who just had repaired another issue that I had with my oven the week before I noticed the chipping and Wolf covered that repair, told me to get the salesman who sold me the oven and the local distributor involved. I did and they worked out a deal with me and replaced the oven. The Wolf tech told me there really is any good way to repair the porcelain. What part does Wolf want to give you?


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

Thanks deeageaux. I am writing a letter.

kalapointer, my dealer is gone from this market and that is a very key thing to have them behind you that I don't have. I didn't think of contacting the distributor though in their place. I may even fire off a letter to the company that sold it to me even though they probably don't care. Wolf wants to give me a new liner which requires a complete tear down of the oven. You can see how the hourly rate for repair could vary tremendously just by how fast the guys work and how much experience they have.

Gary, if the new oven is wall oven, the liner might be different. They said there are "different servicing needs" for the DF as to why they replaced everybody else's oven. The part is already at the servicer. They ordered it as soon as Wolf sent authorization.
I don't see the blue enamel going anywhere fast. Wasn't it you that said that they were going to make the bottom of the oven replaceable? This is what they had to say about the blue enamel.
"Wolf Appliance is unique to the industry in our use of the solid blue porcelain that our customers know us by. Using the solid blue porcelain makes it easier to see crazing. That is why our competition uses flecked porcelain as it helps to hide the crazing that their ovens also have.
Again, crazing is harmless and has no impact on the oven's cooking performance or on oven reliability. It should be noted that not all ovens exhibit the same degree of crazing, as a certain amount of natural variation is to be expected.

I would say that crazing is the start of problems. The constant expansion and contraction just causes the enamel to continue to chip and you have the tiny glass shards flying around.

applnut, I will post how this all comes out.


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

It was not I, that found the info about their new ovens having a replaceable bottom like my older Elux Icon does.

I may have reposted that msg from the original poster who found the info.

Unfortunately we will have to wait to see what the new Wolf Wall oven coating is.

It's kinda sad, as we are only seeing problems with the newer (2012-2013) Wolf ovens. I have not seen any post about any other brands (circa 2012-2013) with porcelain problems.
Perhaps Wolf had a "Lotta of the material for the "Older coatings" and continued to use it, whilst the other manufacturers "May have" went to a different cobalt formula.
Only time will tell.

There is a bit of "Poppycock" in the msg that Wolf sent you!!!
People have spotted flecked porcelain on their Dacors, Electroluxes and several others that I can't recall right now, so either those manufacturers did not hide it so well, or we got a bunch folks with "Eagle Eyes", Including you!!, as I recall you found crazed porcelain on your Elux.

One would "Think" if they come out with a new coating for their new oven, that said coating could be applied to any oven, including a range oven, ---now whether they would be willing to do that, is a whole different matter.

Gary


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

Dodge, my E Series oven was purchased in 2009 and had the original flat handle, but not installed until 2010. My new oven has chipping already and it was installed last April. I won't let the warranty expire on this one. Wolf really needs to address this problem, maybe their new generation wall ovens will be better. The oven really is a wonderful performer. It bakes and roasts so well, but I don't want porcelain shards in my food.


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

I agree with you, kalapointer!

The last thing You need is "An Internal Pointer"!!!

Gary


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

I did cancel the appointment we had to repair this oven. I had an additional problem this weekend. I preheated it for 30 minutes and put the food in(covered!) and came back in 30 minutes and the oven wasn't hot. It was set on 350 standard bake, which I checked. I flipped it to straight convection and the temp was only 250. It then started heating and was ok. I have turned it on 2 more times and it seems to be ok now. I am worried it is a computer board though.


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

Wekick - any update to report on your oven? I'm hoping they've offered a satisfactory solution.
Maire


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

Not yet.


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

On another note the Electrolux was fixed with about 2 hours labor $540 total with parts paid for by extended warranty.


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

Thanks for the update, wekick.

Did you ask about the coating on the new parts?
Unlike Wolf, we have not seen elux porcelain problems on their
ovens built after 2010 or so, I hope they coated the parts with the current generation of blue cobalt porcelain, alto I can certain appreciate your anxiety over such a coating.

Fortunately My Elux, (circa 2006), the porcelan still looks great, but I don't self clean it, and the bottom of my oven (over the bottom heater), just lifts out---something they have apparently discontinued in the new models (DUMB!!!!).

Gary


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

Mine took 4 years to show up though in the Elux. I feel like since it was at waist level I saw it at an earlier state of failure. The Electrolux has seen much more use and cleaning than the Wolf oven. The Wolf oven was worse and with much less use over the same time frame. I won't be self cleaning either.


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

We're considering purchasing a Wolf wall oven and I was researching the flaking blue enamel and discovered your post.
I'm curious if Wolf has offered you any help?

We've had Sub Zero for years and I'm always impressed with their level of customer service - even after warranty.


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

My first post above- They will give me the part and $325 towards labor. Labor starts at $800 and goes up "depending on what they find"-no capped cost. They will only guarantee the part for a year. In light of others experiences with the porcelain degrading multiple times I cant see throwing good money after bad. This does seem to be a change in the way they treat customers. Some have gone through three ovens. There are some other threads on this forum about Wolf blue chipping. I am still trying to get them to do better but we have had a wedding, travel, a critical illness etc and I just have things to do beside fool around with this $@/% range.

You might wait and see what the m series oven is. Hopefully it won't have blue porcelain. Someone on another thread got a ten year extended warranty.


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

I'm really sorry to hear that they haven't been more helpful and thanks for the suggestion about waiting for the m series. I did check many of the other threads about the blue porcelain - there's no way I'd purchase an oven with it. There are too many other things that can go wrong - especially the electronics.


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

I want to thank wekick and others on this forum such as rhome410 (and countless others I cannot recall their usernames) for sharing about the Wolf oven problems.

I deferred my purchase of any Wolf product with this enamel. I can't wait to read the warranty for the M-series ovens. It should be released within two months. Depending on what Wolf covers (and for how long), I may purchase a Miele instead.

The enamel problem seems to have been happening to ovens manufactured since 2007 or before. I've had a sales person assert that the Wolf oven enamel problem was solved 5 years ago. It may take a few years for people to trust the new M-series.

This post was edited by bend-or on Mon, Feb 10, 14 at 7:05


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

Well, 5 years ago, huh? My first oven was a 2008 E series model installed in 2010 and the porcelain failed. It was replaced in 2013. Now the porcelain is chipping again after almost one year. Hopefully the newly designed ovens will not have this problem.

Wekick - have you resolved your oven problems??

This post was edited by kalapointer on Mon, Feb 10, 14 at 17:35


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

kalapointer,
No. I still have the range as I can't make up my mind on a new one.


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

Wekick you seem to have a lot of experience and knowledge about ovens etc. I am sorry about all of your troubles with the enamel and want to avoid I having the same. I am looking for a 48 inch range for my remodel this summer. Wolf all gas? Thermador all gas or duel fuel? The pro grand steam? The ge monogram? What ranges are you considering?


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RE: Wolf dual fuel DF366 enamel failure What to do?

CathyShoe,
I wish I could say. I am in the paralysis mode. I have a wall oven so the oven in my range is being used for storage with the rare instance of cooking something covered and without convection. It will be hard to duplicate the performance of the Wolf electric oven, but I have cooked many, many years without it. It just requires a little more tending, turning and switching around. I am thinking about AG as I still have the electric oven for baking. I probably would not buy any range again if starting from scratch. I would buy components -rangetop and wall ovens, but unless I have a carpenter come in and redo all the cabinets I am stuck with a range. It is one thing to buy a range at $1000 and lose it. It is a bigger investment to buy a range for $10,000 or more and have it last 41/2 years. With components, you can pick the best of each part and your risk is split up.


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