Well personally, I'd buy a Wolf before I purchased a Bluestar, (all gas) because I like a basic applicance that won't fall apart (electronics etc). They're a nice piece of machinery.

But honey...if you were looking at La Cornue...you're not going to love a regular old american thing :oP Have some fun if you can afford it and get a dream stove!

We were thinking of a 48" wolf and then upgraded to french (in cm's so the measurements are diff) and ended up with a 55 1/2" range instead. There's a lot in that range. We purchased it for many of the same reason's you have. (We're ten years behind you, but on the same path...we're 45 with a 2 year old and one soon to be on the way or found or something) and we entertain at a minimum monthly, and often weekly. DH is the big cook and I'm a baker. One thing I liked about Lacanche was the option of both an electric and gas oven (which we have).

Honestly though...let's talk Molteni as well. Molteni is "the range" that the big chefs want to have. It's all preformance in the professional kitchen, and has long been known as the best out there again, in the professional kitchen. That's where we learned about them. But unlike LaCornue (who has been in the high end retail market for some time) Molteni is trying to push into the consumer market hard right now. You get the same quality as a La Cornue, but for about $15,000 less because they're trying to get some in roads to the consumers with great deals.

Molteni's are gorgeous...frankly they're prettier than a La Cornue and the custom name plate is kind of cool :) They're made to order just for you, and kicking the side of one is like kicking a rock.

Here's a traditional:
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We'de like one of these...and someday will have a kitchen big enough...a molteni traditional island:
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And for grins and giggles...this is the range of stoves made by molteni:
Modern to classic:
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The oval one is about eighty five grand :o)

The great thing about molteni is that when they make you one, they can do whatever you want on the top...want a deep fryer and a french top? NO biggie...want a steamer and a 22k burner? No biggie...anything and it's made for you as it was back in 1929 when they started (and an original molteni is worth far more now than a new one...we saw only one antique for 90 thou).

So, as long as you're researching...don't miss them. I love our Lacanche, and until we can do the island molteni, we'll have Lachance, but you should see the best options if you can afford them :)

Oh my! Well, I'm in love with the Lacanche Sully. I'm also trying to get a catalog for the Molteni. I suspect the Lacanche is about the same price as LaCornue, but the 55" seems a bit larger in the ovens. My architect has just put the La Cornue range top into her kitchen with 2 wall ovens, Thermodores. She did not want the ovens low and generating extra heat in that it may affect the range temp. I think the whole "look" of it is with the ovens and that in a kitchen it really sings. Has anyone seen a picture of the ovens open? I'd like to get those demensions too and I'm trying to get a catalog mailed to me as well. I suspect there are no complaints with the Lacanche ranges, as I haven't found a one on any site. Igloo, what color is your range, I suspect it's the Sully being 55". I'm a girl on a mission....Molteni...Lacanche...

irishgirl:
the Cluny 1400 (which we are getting) is also 55'' wide. Difference is that there are two smaller ovens with the compensation that you get the warming cabinet, which is much loved by many Lacanche owners.

BTW: I wonder if you're confusing the La Cornue range (which is hand built, and well over $30,000) with the CornuFe (which is built on the same assembly line as the Aga line of stoves and is much cheaper--around $9000 currently I believe)--Cuz the La Cornue is certainly more than an equivalent Lacanche as igloo has pointed out.

Hi Clinresga,
I like the Sully and your Cluny 1400. I saw the CornuFe at Williams Sonoma and did not care for the configuration. I am thinking that the Lacanache is less expensive than the La Cornue, yet equivalent in its quality. I may have to have my architect redesign for the 55", an increase from the 48" I had anticipated, but we're still in the beginning phase. I am thinking that the Sully is about $15K or so, which is much less than the La Cornue. Tell me, do you mind the ovens being down low at all? Seems to be a problem with some people. Thanks, Mary (Irishgirl)

irishgirl, it does not surprise me that you have fallen for the Lacanche Sully. I fell for it too.

For a long time I went back and forth between the Sully and the Cluny 1400. They are both 55 5/16" wide. The Sully has 2 ovens, both measuring 20 7/8 x 12 x 18 1/8". The Cluny 1400 has 2 ovens, both measuring 15 7/8 x 12 x 18 1/8" and a warming cupboard. I could not go bigger than the 55" so a Sully with a warming cupboard was out of the question. Plus, it was out of the budget.

My debate with myself and DH went back and forth between worrying that I would prefer the Sully oven size over giving up that warming cupboard. I spoke to several Cluny and Sully owners on the phone and emailed many. I came to the conclusion that the Cluny oven size would be sufficient and I could not give up the warming cupboard after hearing from so many Lacanche owners how much they now relied on it.

After my DH and I went and saw the Cluny, I never lost sleep over oven size again. It was plenty big.

At the beginning of my appliance search, I was determined to get a rangetop and double wall ovens. I checked into Wolf, Thermador, Monogram, with intensity and perused Fisher Paykel, KitchenAid, and Electrolux as well. However, a range was preferable to the layout of our kitchen, so I began to give up that idea and to check into ranges. I looked at Bluestar, and Wolf, DCS, Monogram, Capital, American and Viking. I had never heard of Lacanche. Then one day while reading the postings about the prostyle ranges, I read about the Lacanche. Went to the Art Culinaire website and well, the rest is history. Not only did that range cook like the pros, it was just the most beautiful appliance I had ever seen. It became the centerpiece of my whole kitchen remodel. I have yet to hear of someone who regretted their Lacanche purchase which obviously greatly influenced our decision.

I have never seen a Molteni, except for in pics, but I have seen the Cluny, and it is truly beautiful and very well made. If, you have the room for the Sully, get it with the warming cupboard. Everyone who has one says it is one of their favorite features. The ovens in real life did not seem any lower than a regular range. If you have the room, you could get the range and a convection wall oven.

Call Art Culinaire and arrange to see one yourself. Then see the Molteni and any others and compare.

irishgirl: for us, the La Cornue was just out of out budget but the LC we could stretch for and I'm happy with the decision. We did the same thing: had the plans spec'd for 48'' but we sacrificed some countertop on either side of the range to get to 55''. They are still adequate from what I can see (marble was just installed there last week, although the huge island countertop is not in yet).

Your estimate seems about right: our Cluny 1400 was about $13K when we ordered it back in June.

Re the oven location: I will admit we cheated. I was nervous about the size of the Cluny ovens and put a single Miele 30'' wall oven in as well. That gives me best of all worlds--one large electric convection for baking and that all important twice a year huge turkey, plus the two smaller cluny ovens for every day and when I want to bake with gas. However, from all the LC owners' feedback, it seems that the vast majority find the two Cluny ovens to be more than adequate.

Irishgirl - the cluny ovens aren't lower than any other stove. People who don't like to (or can't) bend over to get at the oven just need to buy wall ovens instead. FWIW, I have a cluny and love it.

Joe

MIne's a CLuny 1400 in black. I debated over and over betweeen the black and the yellow (what the heck is that color name? anyhoo) I went black because I have a lot of other drama in the kitchen and wanted to keep that classic. You can't go wrong with the colors though...they're all gorgeous :)

The oven size isn't an issue for me. I've cooked in european kitchens and understand why they don't use huge ovens (you're just heating air).

If you read the lacanche threads, you'll see oven discussions over and over, and rarely see any actual owners who have issues with them. :)

I also have an Aga, and while its a nice range, it's not a lacanche :)

Thanks all. I am narrowing it down! Cluny 1400 or a Sully. Black. terra cotta or provence yellow. (I'm going with marble countertops, oak floor, creamy white cabinets with maybe some cherry, center island with 2nd sink.)

Really, throughout my research, I cannot find a single complaint about the Lacanaches. I've never had a warming oven, but it seems they are very much used by Lacanache owners. People even name their ovens for goodness sake! I am nervous about the smaller ovens (hence my leaning to the Sully) -- I think Americans are just used to large ovens, I blame the turkey. But I have noticed that sooooo many have chosen the Cluny and the Cluny 1400, so that speaks for itself.

I cannot begin to tell you all how helpful you have been. I feel so much more confident in my selections, even joyful, especially since this kitchen is more than likely my last rennovation in this house. Don't want regrets, I would rather over-shoot the project.

Thanks, keep those comments coming. Mary (Irishgirl)

Interestingly, my wife pointed out that if you Google "Lacanche problem" you will get several hits to posts with unhappy owners. Main issues appear to be oven temperature stability, trouble with ignitors, and one who had repeated problems with oven doors warping. All of these posts were on European sites.

Some of these have by my recollection come up in previous LC threads here on GW, mainly oven temperature calibration, but I recall no U.S. owners complaining about some of the other issues.

None of this dissuades me that we made the right choice, and I'm very anxious to get the range delivered. Still, it's important for all the LC fanboys and girls on GW to be open to positives and negatives, although I would continue to maintain that there are fewer complaints about LC ranges than any others (except perhaps for samr's miraculous smoothtop).

Agree with clinresga. This is still a man-made appliance not a supernatural creation :)

During my research, I did find those European posts and several on GW about oven temp. I asked Chelsea at AC about them and she told me that they were finding that a few of the ranges that are directly shipped from France to the customer have this problem vs. the one's that come from AC early arrivals. She attributes this to AC going over the range and making any necessary adjustments to the range after it has been shipped from overseas, before it is shipped to the customer. She told me that AC will send a technician to any home with a Lacanche (remember it's under warranty) and make the temp adjustment or any needed fine tuning. Sometimes the gas burners need to be adjusted as well, as the flame can be too high.

I think this was one of the things that impressed me most about AC was their willingness to ensure customer satisfaction. There are going to be issues with any appliance, but it is reassuring to know you are not going to be stuck by yourself trying to deal with it, but that the manufacturer and the dealer will stand by their product. (Especially for this kind of $$$$).

I may be a little biased on the Molteni / La Cornue / Lacanche debate,( I am the US Director of sales for Molteni) but I will say that one of the biggest differences is that the Molteni is truly a commercial range that was merely downsized for residential use. Some of the finest restaurants in the world use our stoves and the components/ construction/ parts on their stoves are identical to what we offer in our residential stoves. The other brands have no presence in the commercial world at all.

Guillaume,

Tell me more about Molteni, I am leaning toward Lacanche because of what I've read on the Gardenweb, but have heard excellent opinions of Molteni. We entertain and - at this point - can accomodate any size, 48, 55, etc. I have requested a Molteni catalog for comparison. Many thanks, Irishgirl

If I could own a La Cornue Chateau, I would. I do not believe they have the best ergonomics, but I would sacrifice that for the looks and the weird mystical attraction that stove holds. There is something about them that speaks to me. Always has, always will.

I just clicked on Igloo's photo of the Molteni. It appears the Molteni comes with a litter of puppies, so I may have to reconsider my La Cornue preference. ;>)

guillaume: I suspect all the Lacanche fans here would keel over in delight if a Molteni materialized in the kitchen. If you love LC, how can you not love Molteni? But, to resurrect my old auto analogy, if the LC is a Maserati, then the Molteni is a Bugatti Veyron. Even more desirable, even less attainable. Still, nice to have dreams.

to add more fuel to your information fire, the Lacanche importers used to advertize a professional french range too, caumartin (sp?), I think. There's also delaubrac and morice, and gordin, if you like french ranges. When I was deciding on a range, an owner of the morice told me that you can often find floor models of some of these ranges at significantly reduced prices. It might be worth it to check out all these "pianos"

I'd bet I spoke with you Guillaume when we were hot on the trail of a Molteni :o) You were lovely....but the dealer in Portland...not so much :( We left thinking we should open a store and sell them ourselves heh heh Feel free to email me if you want to know more. They did kill the sale. If I purchase a home in the pacific northwest, I'd be happy to represent you :oP

I'll still say, a molteni (with a litter of puppies) is a step above a Lacanche, NO DEBATE. They are hand made for YOU. You can feel the difference. Honestly, if you have access to a good dealer, consider them because they're a bargain right now (am I wrong...have they jumped up in price significantly Guillaume?)

It was something like....$25,000 for a tricked out Molteni in comparison to LaCornue at $35,000 plus.

We'll do our Island Molteni some day :O) But I'm dealing with NY instead of portland when that happens.

LOL Oh ya, and about the puppies that come with a Molteni...those little sweeties are actually even more rare than a Molteni....and after three years we finally got one! Woo hoo! I don't think I'd have a three year wait for the gorgeous stove heh heh

Igloochic, What are these puppies everyone is talking about? Did I miss them in the pictures? I'm still waiting for my Molteni brochure. I just got my Lacanache brochure with specs and prices. I'm thinking about the Cluny 1400 and --- like Clinresga -- cheating with a wall oven for the bird. I'm thinking the Sully with warming oven, while I love the size of the ovens, the range top is pretty big. But, wow, wouldn't it be a beauty in provence yellow with marble top?

Irishgirl

P.S. Anyone have any information on Dishwasher drawers? Brands? Thanks again, Irishgirl

Well, since the OP went OT, I'll add my two cents worth:

We did not choose DW drawers. Several points:

1) They are very expensive. Since each drawer must have almost all the same mechanicals as a full sized DW, having two DW drawers will almost double your cost
2) reliability: this is anecdote, but one of the applicance dealers I dealt with, who carried several brands who produced DW drawers, refused to sell them. He said he had so many problems that he stopped selling them. But...this was the same guy who tried to sell me on Miele column refrigerator by disparaging Therm columns, which share the same mechanicals. So take it FWIW.
3) I can always use less of my full sized DW for a small load. I can't put twice as much dirty stuff into a DW drawer if I need to. Then, you end up running two DW drawers, which will consume sigificantly more energy than the DW (i.e. two pumps working instead of one etc). If the small load issue is a real deal breaker for you, then get a DW that allows you to run just the upper rack only.

I'll wait now to be abused by DW Drawer fans.

We looked at DW drawers. Visited several appliance retailers, and heard positive things about them. Two different salesman at 2 different stores, both had the F&P drawers and both loved them. But interestingly, discouraged us from getting them due to our family size (2 adults, 3 teens). They said the drawers are great for smaller loads and an occasional large load, but a nuisance if you are doing large loads daily, which we are. So we went with the Miele Optima.

Spent a weekend at a friend's house. She has Fisher & Paykel dish washer drawers with wood fronts to match her cabinets. The dishwashers were very noisy. I'm not sure how old they are, but I think she got them at least two years ago, so this may have changed. She says that for the just the two of them, the drawers work well and she likes them. For the four of us, she had to use both drawers after every meal.

I prefer my Bosch dishwashers. We use both of those almost daily, so drawers probably wouldn't work around here. It's rare that I do not have at least one full load by the end of the day, and, often, two.

Thought you might get a kick from this custom residential unit we delivered at the end of last week.

Here is a link that might be useful:

Oh, exquisite, guillaume! That photo makes me miss my Morice ("Maurice" :^) which had the same vent stack, was the same color, had the same "look" and was about 1/3 the size! I think Morice is gone from the US now--the company chose the wrong distributor, unlike LaCanche which had the lucky stroke of meeting the Art Culinaire folks.

If it helps all you French range "dreamers," the kitchen and the range sold the house in a week. I had thought I'd take "Mo" with me, but the new owners fell in love with it at first sight. I've been in touch with them recently and they still love it.

So be brave!!!

WOW! I can only imagine no Wolf or BS believers have posted here due to the title and never believing that Wolf and BS was taking such a pistol whipping under the title of another's product. I have never seen such a pompous display of arrogance in support of a range/product more at the expense of others and less based on the merits of the products advocated. Please, "like comparing a Bentley to a Cadillac" was bad enough but "more like comparing a Rolex to a ummm sundial" now that is truly cheap, petty and catty in the worst degree. And let us not forget where they are built.

As usual though, the claims of Lacanche/La Cornue superiority are largely or only supported by "how great it looks" and "how much it costs" but avoid discussions about performance and power. Its like a "trophy spouse" huh? It matters little how they are in the sack as long as they look great on the arm! I think it is great to be the advocate for a product you like and Lacanche/La Cornue has always enjoyed a click of sorts but this display is more cult like than click like.

It is certainly posts like this that make pleasant discussions with Lacanche/La Cornue owners difficult in other venues.

If I owned either of these ranges right now, I would be embarrassed to admit it.

gapeach--
OK, I'll rise to the bait, since I was a French gas range owner and now am a Wolf/induction owner. Cooking on each is just terrific, while being very different experiences.

My 30K BTU burners on the Morice were an inferno, but my induction response is equally powerful. The induction is a quiet, undramatic heat source, and maybe less sexy because it doesn't have the awesome blast effect as the gas flames with the wooshing sound. But the instant off/on, easy cleanup, and the turn-off timers make me feel like I'm cooking in the 21st century.

It has been a privilege to have been able to cook on two such equally responsive, powerful machines. I never take that for granted.
P.

gapeach01, if you knew anything about the posters on this thread you'd know better than to take offense at any thing they said or the comparisons they've made...lighten up! I've found this thread nothing but entertaining and actually laughed out loud at Guillaume's last post...told DH he'd feel like a total punk if he saw it. Hahahahahaha!!!! (drool, drool, drool)

pamela1 - bait? what bait? There was no bait but rather just my opinion on the unfariness of the bashing delivered against otherwise good appliances and, consequently, their owners. I am not sure why many here try to turn well deserved, brutally honest and frank rebutals into some sort of challenge or attempt to bait. BTW, I do not believe I even mentioned Molteni. I am glad you have had both Molteni and Wolf and liked both but this has no relevance to my observations.

cheril, If I thought I knew anything about the posters to which my comments were addressed, after reading some of the comments I would know how little I really did actually know about them. There were indeed parts of the post I enjoyed as well; just not those situations where there seemed to be an outpouring of undeserved bashing of others' products coupled with an obvious air of "there are owners of French ranges, those who are French range owner wannabe's and then, of course, the common folks". AAAhahahahaha!!!!

I should know better than to respond (but secretly I love these posts!)...
gapeach: I won't speak for others, but I would say that consistently I've believed, and posted, the notion that Lacanche ranges are not the best choice for everyone. I'd be curious to see which post on this thread you find to be a "pompous display of arrogance." The LC fanclub is a small group who love their ranges. They are not known for "bashing" other ranges with regularity.

Any of us understand that there are lots of reasons that other ranges are superior choices for others. No LC fan would argue for example that the BS ranges blow LC's away on the basis of BTU output. LC ovens are small, and many don't offer convection. Heck, they don't even have OVEN LIGHTS!!

Of course that doesn't work for others. I love the look of pro style ranges too, thought seriously about a Wolf or a BS before learning about LC's here and realizing I had to have one. It's a visceral, emotional response, NOT a rational intellectual one. For some of us, the look and feel of these ranges gives us an irrational amount of pleasure. That clearly happens only to a select few, none of whom believe we are "superior to the common folk."

You presume a lot by stereotyping LC owners the way you do. You are jumping way too quickly to conclusions. For example, you took offense at the car analogy--Bentley vs BMW vs Cadillac. I think you missed the whole point: the comparison was of a CornuFe (=Bentley) to a LC and a BS (=Cadillac and BMW--which are both high quality cars and in no way meant to be demeaning). Of course, a CornuFe, at $35,000 and up, can't be compared to a LC or a BS--THAT was the point, NOT to denigrate BS.

To beat the car analogy to death, in my post I compared BS to a Nissan GTR and LC to a Maserati, which I think is a good analogy. While I might choose the Maserati, I LOVE the GTR (I just followed one into a parking lot last week, since it was the first one I had seen in the flesh down here in Georgia). I am incredibly impressed by it's use of technology to produce mind boggling performance. I feel the wame way about BS ranges--they kick B*&% and I would love to cook on one too.

Please be careful about painting all of us with a broad brush. How can you:

accuse others of "unfairly generalizing about other ranges,"

and then turn around and do exactly that to other people by making comments like "If I owned either of these ranges right now, I would be embarrassed to admit it." Think about who is being close minded now.

I own a LC and I'm not in any way embarrassed to admit it.

clinresga, nor should I respond.

Your response strikes me as a defensive attempt to say "AHHH, wasn't me!" and "WELL, but you too!".

However, mine was merely a rebuttal to observations already made. Maybe you should rethink your rationalization of the subject comments by rereading the post; especially where OP expresses an interest in US built range models only to be all but scolded by igloochick saying what terrible things they read about them (then the Rolex comparison...), followed by your immediate recognition that the tone of the discussions were deteriorating to the point of being offensive to others.

I don't think there is any question that you own a Lacanche and are very proud of it. If I had a Lacanche or La Cornue, that would mean that I choose it based on its merits and would be equally as proud (on second thought, maybe not equally)...that's painting with a broad brush. What is not painting with a broad brush, nor do I feel it closed minded, is my personal view that if I did own one in light of the comments made here and in front the audience and/or readers of this post, I would truly be embarrassed. That is painting with a very narrow brush, if you follow my drift.

It is very conciliatory of you though, once challenged, to point out the obvious merits of US built ranges to make us common folk feel part of the party. And as you use your car analogy to defend your comments, remember it is all to easy to look a few posts up and get the full blow by blow of your original post where your comparison was to the "ugly as sin" Nissan GTR that is now a veritable work of artistic technology.

If I am being closed minded, I say here only and I come by it honestly.

Also, my views or comments have never singled out or defend only BS as you keep migrating to but rather relate to all such ranges in that class but particularly the ones bashed.

peach - While I see where you are coming from, I think you really need to put things into context. What overall gets discussed in these threads is a love for the artistry, finesse and detail of these ranges, while still acknowledging (and accepting) that raw performance and "specs" might well be beaten by your more mainstream pro-style appliances.

While you took issue with igloo's statment of "You're really going from a Rolex to a ummm sundial?", one might correctly point out that there are many run-of-the-mill watches out there that are better time-keepers than Rolexes are, and that ultimately the sun will outlive any man-made watch. So sundials need not be ashamed.

For me reading Lacanche, LC, etc. threads is like watching "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous", i.e. with one hand in my pants and taking no offense than others would likely turn their noses at common folks like me who live on the wrong side of the tracks.

If you want to see some real ridiculousness to fight about, start another Bluestar vs Wolf thread.

I hope my point is taken as intended, with no offense to any side.

Sheesh gapeach. Did you read the OP's original question? I did and discussed it with the OP covering the merits of the ranges the OP was looking at, and adding another range to the mix, the Molteni.

You'd have to be a total fool not to find some comparison between different styles of ranges. The French ranges that are under discussion here have some similar features and definately a similar style. They style is not just about how the body looks, but how it's built. The same can be said for the American ranges discussed here, and again some similar features and a similar style (more industrial than the French ranges discussed above). If a person want's that level of style (that comes with the ranges discussed) an American range will disapoint. If the same OP wants an industrial looking range, than a French Range will disapoint.

If you have ever done any reasonable comparison of all of these ranges, please share your information with us. I personally have done so and I ended up with a middle of the road French range verses the LaCornue or Molteni, and I'm happy to have it, but I do know, that when push comes to shove...the Lacanche is not of the same caliber as the other two. Kick their tires...you can see the difference very easily. And then again, as I stated, LaCornue and Molteni are each one made individually for the buyer. It's much like having your car built for you specifically, made exactly to fit you and no one else.

All of these ranges have performance records you can check on. All are very good cooking ranges, although I'd never buy a BS myself because I have seen far too many complaints about them. I'd buy a wolf if I liked that look. I don't care for it as much as I do the French style ranges, which is why I have a Lacanche and an Aga.

What analogy would you use to compare say a Wolf or BS with an electric range from Sears? Would you not say that a Wolf was the BMW, the BS a whatever in the middle and the electric range would be a 1976 VW Bug? Who cares what analogy's are used, as long as they're appropriate, high medium and low etc.

I'm not embarresed to say what range I own, or that I'll have a Molteni as well some day or that I might just put a Wolf in if I ever do a modern kitchen and each will be enjoyed as much as the other. When I design a kitchen I do so with the idea that fuction is key, then look to form, and find a form and function that flow well with the entire plan for a perfect look.

I'm sorry you're so bitter about the little stove comparisons, but for goodness sake...they're stoves, and not even yours, so lighten up already :) If you notice, when I type I often say things and then add a :oP which is an indicator or a joke or teasing. You'd see that right next to the comment on not settling for an American range if you looked really really hard.

ya_think, I watched this post develop with some interest and I think you are dead on point. I think peach's point is well made, to yours as well, that a good discussion of beauty, artistry and performance is much more effective, convencing and enjoyable when it is based on merit.

I own a Rolex and I take offense to the thought of wearing a sundial on my arm BTW! But, to your point, it is severly in need of service and keeps horrible time right now...but it is 33 years old, has only had 2 services and sports a 22K BTU second hand.

Thanks for helping to shut down the Wolf/BS post while it was still a good one. I actually started to reference this post there to see the fireworks fly but it hit 150 before I could.

ya think: well, "I think" we're saying the same thing. Different strokes for different folks. I have never suggested that someone else was inferior for choosing another range. I think you get it that some of the LC chatter is really more insider "trash talk" not intended to influence or offend others. Appreciate your calm opinions.

peach: pour a glass of wine, put your feet up, and relax! These are ranges, not global warming or global terrorism we're talking about here. Any discussion of ranges here should be done with a smile on the face and a realization that this is ridiculously trivial stuff in the global scheme of things.

I don't believe I'm condescending or arrogant. I love to discuss ranges, that's all. If that's offensive to you, then I apologize, since I suspect there's not much I can do to dissuade you.

But...I will close with this--if you can't get how I can think the GTR is ugly (cuz it IS), and still love it for what it DOES (blows away a Porsche Turbo), then your view of cars, if not the world, is awfully binary. Things are rarely black and white. Life, and cars, and even ranges, are complex.

igloochick, your words are different but send the same defensive message as did clinresga's and I have said my peace. However, I must correct you when you label me as bitter. There is certainly nothing bitter about me or my comments but to imply that I am or that my comments are a futile attempt to twist the point of my message, however much you may dislike it.

One other point I might make as well since I must have been writing the last post when clinresga posted.

Believe me, I think we get it that you think the GTR is ugly as sin. But lets drive that point a bit further (no pun intended HA). You pull in to that parking lot and wait for the elusive GTR to park and pull up and commend the owner by complimenting "Wow, a GTR! Love the performance and the technology is unparalled! Man, too bad its an ugly piece of sh1t though!" Then what's next? Of course... "Is that your son the front seat? Nice looking kid...he's ugly as sh!t too but nice match for the GTR!" Now there a friend for life! or not! LOL!!!

Both you and igloo make every effort to insist that this is all in fun and should be taken in the smiling context intended and I could not agree more. However somehow that implies I am not smiling but I am. What makes you think my comments were not in the same fun as yours? Wasn't the context or tone was it? If so, my apologies as my comments were intended as a reflection of the comments I was responding to and as I interpreted them.

gapeach I only read you as bitter because you obviously are a bit bitter over something...something that bothers you so much you can't read a discussion about a silly range without feeling that it is a personal attack on you or anyone else who does not have that particular range. Insecure? Whatever, but in general, just silly really. As clin mentioned, it's a range :) No one will live or die if they have one or do not have one. It's a range! Let it go honey.

Any thing can be compared to anything. If you ask me if ceramic tile is better or worse than granite, I'll discuss the merits of each with you, just as I've done with stoves. I'd compare Home Despot travertine to a 1976 VW and a high end travertine to a porsch. Is that wrong? I think ruby's are better than garnets and would compare them in a similar fashion, but that does not mean I don't wear both and enjoy them. It's just a conversation :o)

I do take issue with your idea that those of us who want do discuss a range of this nature are immediately snobs who won't allow any lesser mortal into our home. Frankly dear, I entertain many people in my home, and rarely ask for bank statements or references before issuing an invite. I've yet to decline a dinner invitation to someone elses home because they cook on ""gasp"" electric :oP (Again please notice that the little face means ITS A JOKE!!)

Ya need to lighten up. I'm not defensive, I'm realistic. And you're kind of silly if this is such a serious topic for you.

Let me make you a double martini...I think it might help you relax a little and enjoy learning about different types of appliances...maybe you could even participate by discussing the merits of YOUR range and not running down ranges you haven't even seen.

peach: That's exactly what I did. I caught up to him and we talked. The GTR guy and I both agreed on my assessment. The GTR was never intended to be on display in someone's "private collection," to be looked at, never driven. The GTR is a tool, a mean nasty piece of work, and I drool over it the same way I do a Porter Cable circular saw. That was exactly his sentiment--"I didn't want a pretty car, just one that would blow away anyone in the next lane." He took exactly NO offense at my aesthetic appraisal. I can appreciate that duality, sorry that you can't. PS: he had no kids in the back seat.

igloo: I guess we'll have to correspond in secret. I'm signing off on this conversation.

Relax everybody...we are speaking cooking here. Why all this ferocity?

Molteni has a legacy in commercial kitchens: they are really good at it - Nobody should deny it, including La Cornue lovers. Let's be objective a bit. Molteni swims in the same "commercial" swimming pool with Bonnet.

Lacanche is a quality product that is of CornuFe, Wolf, Viking, Thermador quality. no more.

La Cornue has 2 lines: Chateau and CornuFe. Chateau and CornuFe are not comparable: they are distant cousin in the family. La Cornue was never into the commercial biz - important to know unless it's new.

There are many more with no or little presence in the US: Diva de Provence is still alive solely due to its induction activity, Morice is dead as far as I know, Godin, and plenty more...

Various quotes come to mind.

A thing of beauty is a joy forever.

Beauty has its reasons.

If I can have the luxuries in life I will gladly do without the necessities.

Etc.
Mystical. As opposed to rational. Admitted. What's the argument about?

And, BTW, did someone deny that Molteni had a commercial presence? Does anyone care?

Personally, I find it wonderful that people are excited and enthused about their preferences, choices, research, etc. It's fun.

We have been looking for a range to go into our "new" home which was built in 1887. We have space for a range that is up to 44" wide. I would like 2 ovens, so we have looked at the Aga Legacy and the Cornu Fe and like the look of both. Any recommendations/comments/tips?

Thank you

I have a 1990 Cornue Grand Palais series range that I purchased used. I disassembled the unit completely for a thorough cleaning and I have some observations that may be of use to some of you. First the bad.

The plating work on the trim (nickel in my case), is pretty bad. I took the pieces to a plating shop to be reworked, and the staff were not impressed. You can see that most of the pieces were finished with a belt sander. Because the base metal of the pieces is steel, over time, the backs of the pieces where they contact the stove enamel will begin to rust because of trapped moisture. This destroys the plating, and eventually works around to the front of the trim.

The screws for the backs of the drawer slides were loose or missing, and the right side door slides had the back mounting holes drilled 1/2 inch too high, causing that door to be mis-aligned and to have a tendency to slide open.

The body of the drawers is galvanized steel. One of mine had significant rust. There must be condensation issues.

The gas piping was not deburred after being cut. Two pieces were cut too short, so the builder wasn't able to adequately tighten the joints. There were a few missing screws in the unit and one missing bolt.

The right hand base was 1/8" too short, so they added shims between the base and the oven unit. Unfortunately the shims they added were only 1/16" high.

An electrical connection on one of the main electric burner elements was never tightened correctly. There was obvious arcing at that point.

There are no gaskets on the oven doors. This means that hot gasses will escape out the front and you will get deposits inside the upper door frame and front of the unit, where they will collect under the drip tray handles.

There is no easy way to replace the chrome oven surrounds if they become damaged. You must COMPLETELY disassemble the unit, including removing/dismantling the controls (electric or gas) behind the control doors. This requires that the gas piping be disconnected, the top removed, the ovens separated, the sides removed, and then the inner sheet metal.. you get the idea.

The knobs have plastic bushings to adapt to the small control stalks. One of mine distorted from the heat, so the knob doesn't stay square.

Like many other "pro" ranges, there are many spots where panels meet in such a way that it is inevitable that fluids will seep in and cause problems. The chrome panels fronting the oven are typical, cleaning products just dribble straight down into an uncleanable gap.

The cast aluminum door panels are very cool when perfectly buffed out, but inevitably, they will wither away with use. Sooner or later someone will use a cleaner incompatible with aluminum and wreck the finish. It has taken me several hours on a bench buffer to bring them back.

The hinges in the door have a weak point: when you open the door all the way and put any pressure down, there is a small piece of metal in each hinge that is stressed. One of mine has a small crack that I will have to weld if I can't find a replacement.

The venting in the back of the unit is poorly done. The vents terminate before the top of the backsplash, so cooking gases sort of spread out and coat the upper third of the unit. Not a major problem, but causes quite a bit of dirt buildup.

The brass burner tops look great when polished, but that doesn't last long unless you are a fanatic about cleaning. I didn't even know they were brass until I saw it on a website. I polished mine on the buffer and hey look! brass!
Unfortunately, they get pitted, so to really make them look great, you'd have to chuck them in a lathe and remove some metal. This would give them a limited lifetime.

The racks are a bit flimsy. The chrome on mine had started to fail.

The transformer for the spark ignitors was only grounded to the base of one unit. If you are having a problem with ignitors, make a pigtail to directly attach the ground wire from the transformer to one of the oven's base mounting screws.

People are always saying that their high-end stoves are "built like tanks". No they aren't. Sure, with all that metal you need a stiff frame to bolt it all to, but individually, the ovens are pretty conventional. I've seen the same on Wolf commercial. You want heavy duty? Buy an 1895 wood burner.

Ok, so now the good:

The brass burner hardware is the neatest I have ever seen: a brass tube with a threaded adjuster sets the air flow, much nicer than the stamped metal shutters on Wolf commercial and others.

The gas knobs are cast metal, plated. The have a nice heavy feel.

The gas control hardware looks quality.

All the wiring is sleeved with high temp silicone. Durable and looks nice. Mine was still in great shape.

The porcelain held up very well with only a couple hardly visible dings.

The electric controls are heavy duty euro style stuff. They must have stiffer regs over there. The electric switches are industrial quality.

With some serious cleaning, I was able to take this 18+ year old range back to almost new condition. I paid $2k for the unit, and I am satisfied with it at that price. From what I can see looking at the new units at Williams-Sonoma, there is little visual difference with my unit, so I believe some of my comments would still apply.

The bottom line here is, the cooking functions of the unit seem to be just fine, and have held up well over time. However, the range is not as easy to clean and maintain as a modern unit, and the build quality leaves much to be desired. The style fits perfectly with the kitchen of my Victorian, so I am willing to make some compromises in function.

To any prospective buyers, I would say that just about any $1000 range from Sears will do a great job of cooking, operate reliably and be easy to clean and cheap (relatively) to service. Cornue makes their ranges "like they used to", but sometimes there's a good reason why they don't make them like that anymore.

A purchase like this is about style. If you need a unit with two ovens, and (like mine), four burners, a flat cooktop and grill, the price of entry will probably be at least $5k. How you justify the extra $35k is all about style.

Jkloeppling,
It seems to be a hard work getting this range in to shape. I have bought a used Morice, it will arrive in two weeks time (It has 2 burners, 1 simmerplate).
As it seems that you have done about every ting that can be done with a cooker, it would be great to share experince with you. And it would be super if you have pictures of the work with your Lacornue (i guess there are a lot in common in the construction of a Lacornue and a Morice).
Best regards Lars
mail: lars@fotograflarswallin.com

This was a very interesting post, I really have enjoyed reading it. I am one of those people who is debating purchasing a Wolf/BS AG range- they both have their good/bad points. My old AG Viking has had it and am ready to move on. Most of the things I have read on these threads have not bothered me, the comparisons are only the opinions of the people writing them, and who cares if someone thinks my range s*@#s, and yeah, I'd love to have a Bently, Rolex and even throw in a Butler, but it's just not happening. The things that ARE bothersome are the people who chime in (you know who you are) taking such offense to others comments and/or opinions- and making certain accusations- it's R I D I C U L O U S- For instance... I just started posting 2 days ago and was on a BS Problem thread (by accident I didn't realize the date) and was Immediately Accused of Purposely bringing back an old post that was "6 MONTHS OLD" that was number 60-something or other- I had no idea what the person was even talking about- only to find out it was a post they wanted to disappear and they somehow banned the original poster from GW and that now it was MY FAULT it was BACK- (What's up with that??) Actually, I'm glad that this INNOCENTLY happened- because it is quite obvious to me that there are some posters on GW that have their own agenda regarding certain brands. (this is my opinion and I AM accusing.. because of what has happened TO ME during my FIRST experience here)

I feel GW is a very good and useful site and will not let this experience turn me away, however, I am glad it has opened my eyes.

Anyway, back to the subject of this post... I would love to purchase a french range- what brand should I consider- I have not won any lotteries lately, so I may not even be able to consider any of these beautiful ranges. Which brands offer the lowest price range for decent quality. I would appreciate any information.

I had such a difficult time finding a review of the CornuFe written by anyone who actually had one! I did a ton of research (traveling to California to see a demonstration at the distributor, Purcell Murray, calling authorized service people to see what the common issues were etc.) Well, I have been cooking on mine for a month and I LOVE it.
Here's why:
bakes beautifully
smaller ovens heat up quickly (I was surprised that almost all of my pans DO fit in the ovens)
doors are not excessively hot (as I had read)
love the central burner
not an excessive amount of electronics, so it is quieter than my old dual fuel Wolf (which fanned for a half hour after shut off, which drove me crazy)
LOVE the central burner...use it 90% of the time
easy to clean
It is GORGEOUS !

I found a used La Cornue. I'm concerned about performance, want a good simmer, notice the hob burners are different on the US model than all other models. How would one go about checking out the stove, not even sure it all works, but it is lovely.

If you examine the ovens in the La Cornue you will find that they are not small. They are deep and hold a full profesional 1/2 sheet baking pan easily. The 180 and 165 have wider ovens but I have never noticed a lack of space in the 165. They are natural convection ovens so of course you want to leave room for circulation and the pans provided with the oven and the professional baking sheets are perfect. As a Certified Master Kitchen & Bath Designer (CMKBD) I have specified La Cornue repeatedly to clients who are gourmet cooks as well as those who simply desire the art statement that it provides. There really is no other range like it. That is not to say that there are not other wonderful ranges out there but La Cornue is truely in a class by itself. The comment I hear quite often is that Btand X or Brand Y are just as good as a La COrnue but I never hear anyone say that La Cornue is just as good as Brand X or Brand Y because it is the standard by which all others are judged. I have owned a 165 for over 10 years and marvel at its performance and beauty every day.
If you can afford it, go for it!!!

I was looking at a floor model La Cornue and the salesman told me it wasn't practical because the ovens are always ON and putting out heat....not a problem in NJ winters but causing cooling/ AC problems on hot summer days... Anyone actually cooking with one have this experience? Thanks!

We've had a La Cornue stove for several years. It's nice, but it needs service: the electronic sparker that lights the range won't shut off when the flame lights, or the flame will go out. Fortunately we have a Boston area service rep. He came out, took a check for $1,000 for "parts", and then never took our calls again.
Traditional French service!
When we move, I'm taking this beautiful $20,000 range to the dump.