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Ideal Appliance Mix?

Posted by halgreene (My Page) on
Fri, Jul 18, 14 at 6:15

Hi,

I find myself in the questionably enviable position of being able to design my "dream kitchen." Well, not REALLY...it's a little on the small side (condo) and the budget, while generous, is certainly not unlimited. So no La Cornue stoves or Meneghini fridges. But the usual suspects: Sub-Zero, Wolf, Viking, Thermador, Miele, Gaggenau...yeah.

Here's MY list (so far). Am I off the mark on anything, or more importantly, MISSING something? (I recently read something on this site about something called a "Miele Speed Oven." Huh?)

Anyway, the list:

1. Viking Double Wall Oven (this is a carryover from my last kitchen so it's pretty much a given unless there is a compelling reason to sell it and get something else).

2. Gaggenau or Thermador 36" freedom-style induction cooktop. (Apt. has no gas. :p )

4. Sub-Zero or Thermador 48" side-by side fridge/freezer.

5. Sub-Zero or Thermador 24" wine cooler.

6. Some kinda hood (open to suggestions. My current kitchen has a Vent-A-Hood which works great but is a bear to keep clean).

7. Some kinda full-size dishwasher. Again, looking for suggestions. I hate the idea of having to carefully scrape my dishes, pots and pans or else be forced to clean out a little "food strainer," so "Eurostyle" machines are pretty much out. My current machine, a KitchenAid, is serviceable but not stellar and has been unreliable. I once had a Maytag that was like the nuclear furnace of dishwashers: everything came out spotless and it couldn't be killed, but I understand that is no longer the case.

So if YOU were doing a new kitchen from scratch, what appliances would be on YOUR list?

Thanks!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

How often do you actually use two ovens? You could opt for a single oven and then look in to either a speed oven or a steam oven, they are both great options and offer a 2nd smaller oven, but also other features.

I would look in to both the speed and steam oven's on here and research them to see if they might be a good fit for you and your cook style or not.

Also, what about a microwave? Toaster or toaster oven?

Phil


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

Normally I would advise to go with something else besides Viking for ovens but if you have one now and like the way it works, no reason to get rid of it.

Cooktop and refrigeration choices look good, but if you find yourself needing to save money down the line the first thing I'd cut would be the full surface induction. It is cool technology but you're still limited in the number of pans you can use and the power you can use in the cooking zones.

Dishwashers: Most people you talk to who own the Euro style DWs will tell you the filters aren't an issue, myself included. The filters take care of themselves for the most part. The only time they fill up is if you use your dishwasher as a garbage disposal, which is never a good idea. Just like any dishwasher, you do not need to and should not pre rinse with a Euro style DW. Realize that going with an American manufacturer won't guarantee you a grinder in the bottom; many of them, including KitchenAid, have switched to filter systems for energy efficiency and quieter operation. That said, if you still have your heart set on a grinder, go with Maytag. Maytag also has the most powerful motor in a consumer grade DW. If you go with a filter, go with Miele. They have the best build quality.

Hoods: meh. They are pretty similar and there is not much to go wrong with them. Get one you like the looks of and can afford with the right size and CFM for your needs.

This post was edited by hvtech42 on Fri, Jul 18, 14 at 11:21


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

I would consider going with a different induction cooktop. The Thermador (and, I would assume, the Gaggenau) are limited to 4 pans at once, while typical 36" induction tops allow 5. Unless you have a specific reason to get the freedom top, I would save the $1,000-2,000 and get a regular induction cooktop.


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

Do you really need a 48" fridge? Unless you have a lot of family members, that seems like overkill. I know a lot of people want large fridges but I have a family of four and our 36" fridge (fridge over freezer) is plenty big. We host a lot of parties and sometimes the fridge is very crowded, but only for a day or so. You mention you're space isn't huge, being in a condo, and another foot of counter space is always desirable.


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

We are only 2, but when I redesigned our kitchen , it was designed around a 48" built in and paneled Jenn-air.

We've had it for 8 years now, and no way I would get anything smaller. At first I was thinking about designing in a 42" but I'm glad I found the extra 6"'s for the 48!

In fact, if you look at some of the posts here, You will see a lot of complaints about the size of the 36" fridges not having enough room, particularly in the freezer section and especially counter depth and built in ones. We had no problem finding enough counter space even thou our kitchen is not huge, we built in a peninsula and have more than enough counter space.

Gary


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

Go with a Miele DW - no rinsing- just get rid of large food chunks, load and run! Dishes come out great!
Cookie batter- no problem
Dried on eggs- no problem

Have fun!


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

Viking has been sold and is not the same oven you're happy with or company you dealt with back when. I'd not be a guinea pig with the new outfit. But that's just me.

KA dishwasher unreliable ?, Don't want to scrape ( you don't have to "carefully" do it) ? Then, you've got a tall order there. A maytag is gonna stick out like a sore thumb with the rest of your selections, and if you want it paneled to look like the rest of your cabinets - forget it. Powerful motor or not, it's not as good of a unit as the Euro makes, and the price reflects it. Get a Miele or Bosch/Termador and just don't leave a half eaten portion of lasagna on your plates.

How many of you good folks actually use 5 pans / pots on your induction tops at once ?

Really ?


halgreen, will your apartment's electrical service and panel support the xtra load and circuits necessary for an induction top and a double oven and a wine cooler and perhaps another oven - speed or steam ?

That's a lot of juice and panel spaces that usually weren't conceived of when units are first built.


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

I don't anticipate using 5 pans often. But I think it's somewhat ludicrous to pay more than $1,000 more than the highest-end 36" regular induction cooktop for a zoneless one that only allows 4 pans. Unless you have a specific need, of course.


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

highest end and need have nothing to do with each other !

With the zoneless tops you are paying for convenience and coolness factor and perhaps the ability to flush mount it.

You are paying a premium for all induction tops in my opinion that far exceeds their cost to manuf. and market plus a profit. Plus they don't work with all types of cook ware and bla bla bla.

I just don't see where 4 vs. 5 pots is a deal breaker for any of them. You do realize that your wattage is more limited on those 5 spotters ?

Besides I rarely can get more than 4 good sized pots and pans on my 6 burner gas rangetops either. The limiting factor is 36" and my not so small arsenal. Sure I could get 6 1 1/2 - 2 qt. pots all on them, but who needs that ? Use a 14" pan ? No way you're getting 6 of anything useful on a 36" top.


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

"Viking has been sold and is not the same oven you're happy with or company you dealt with back when. I'd not be a guinea pig with the new outfit. But that's just me"

OP clearly said they would reuse their existing Viking oven. No need to worry about the current state of Viking.

Maytag was just a suggestion because the OP wanted a grinder. I agree it probably isn't the best compliment to a high-end kitchen, and I think this is one of those cases where the OP thinks they need a grinder and they really don't.


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

Are you moving from a house to an apartment/condo?
Does the building have an elevator?
If so, check the electric service or you might be in for a 208 surprise.
Many building with elevators wire for 208 and not 220/240 service.
I thought my DM was crazy complaining about how long it took to preheat her basic oven and then a friend in another state told me she would call her DH to preheat the oven because it took so long due to the elevator style wiring. So, I looked it up and elevators run on 208 and many buildings use 208 for everything.

I put in a plug for the Miele above. Filter is not a problem. The DW is programmed to remind me to check filter every so often.
I have two filters - I rinse out any food chunks(hardly any) and put in my backup. I then toss the dirty one(in reality it is not all that dirty and can be cleaned manually) into my next load.

Before I had 2- I just used a brush to remove any grunge. I don't like touching gross things and the filter is not that bad.

Also since only 2 of you- you could consider one oven and a speed oven- either Miele or the 240 Advantium. You can MW, convection bake, brown, slow cook, or combine functions. So, cook your casseroles for holidays in confidence


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

Thanks everyone. I really like the idea of the speed oven or Advantium, and they DO seem like they are worth the expense and bother, but I also love my Viking double so I guess I'll just have to suck it up and stick with it (first-world problem for sure). As for the DW, everyone seems to feel that the grunge filter is not a problem so maybe I'll have to re-think that. In that case, is the Miele the best choice? Finally, I cook almost every day but I can't remember when I had more than four pans/pots on the stove at once. And the lure of putting a couple of big griddles down to make pancakes/bacon for a crowd is just too great, so it'll be either the Gaggenau or Thermador Freedom induction cooktops for sure. Just a shoutout for my Bluestar rangetop in case anyone's reading this: LOVE IT. But in perusing this site I've recently come across something called a "Capital Culinarian" and if I were re-doing my kitchen (or had gas in the new place) I'd be seriously tempted. Ditto for the American Range French door oven (swoon). Oh well, maybe NEXT house (assuming I don't go broke building these one-percenter kitchens, first). One thing I'll seriously, seriously miss moving from my house to an apt: grilling on my Tec infrared. Sigh. Best grill ever...anyone want to buy it?


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

"In that case, is the Miele the best choice?"

Yes.


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

I too misread about your Viking oven (in your Kitchens thread) and thought you meant you were keeping it as something you hadn't installed and weren't sure about. Apologies for that. Anything that works is good. :) My dream oven was Gaggenau with a fully plumbed Gaggenau combi-steam oven and I'm thrilled with them.

The griddle thing is a great reason for getting the zoneless induction. The only ones on the market when I did my kitchen didn't have repairs available in the U.S. Serious envy, here. :) I mean, it would be cool if there were limitless numbers so one could use the cooktop like a French top with lots of little pans of this and that at different temperatures, but who even cooks that way very often nowadays? I just pop my extras into the warming drawer and am happy with my five pot spots. Except the griddle thing. I have a really big round one, but it's not the same. :) I would have gotten the built in teppanyaki, but I cheaped out. :)

Re MIELE DW: Do take your least "normal" dishes and pots (clean) to a showroom and try them on for size. My flatware doesn't fit in the flatware tray's holders, and some of my pans don't fit in the bottom rack (though they fit my middling GE/Monogram fine). I've heard people complain about their (large) dinner plates not fitting, but not so much lately, so that may no longer be an issue. In my Monogram DW, cereal bowls just don't fit. There's a spot for three, but then you can't put anything else in half the bottom, so I don't use it. I keep half of the top rack with tines down, which will accomodate 3-5 depending on what else is going in.

Also be aware that a lot of DW performance nowadays is based on the detergent rather than the machine. There's a recent thread about favorite detergents in this forum. To get dishes dry, especially in a Euro model, you need to use rinse aid (Jet Dry) and have enough mass in your loads to retain heat.

Miele and KitchenAid are the most popular. One member stumps for the tech inside the current Maytag as being better old tech than what is being used in other Whirlpool/KitchenAid/Frigidaire models nowadays. Asko and Bosch have their adherents, though a greater proportion of detractors.


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

In response to Gary, who decided to belittle my suggestion to consider a smaller fridge-when a member makes a suggestion expressing their opinion and experience, rudeness is inappropriate. The OP mentioned that the kitchen is on the small side. Taking that into account, I posed a question to the OP, and wrote about my experience, giving the OP another option to consider, based on the OP's description of the kitchen. IMO and IME my 36" fridge is more than adequate for our family of four, for daily use and for parties. The freezer holds plenty, as does the fridge. You hold a different opinion, which is fine. However, to conclude MY OPINION AND EXPERIENCE must be wrong, and use as your evidence that you and others on this board also find it too small (as you so snarkily point out in your post) both misses and dismisses the point I'm making, and is rude. I don't find it too small at all. That's the point. It doesn't matter how many other people are like you, for me, it's a great size. When reading posts on here, it's true that several members feel anything less than 48" is inadequate, leading many who read these boards for advice to think they shouldn't consider anything smaller. Well, FOR ME, a 36" fridge is more than adequate. Maybe not for you, but certainly 48" for me would be overkill. I'm sharing my opinion b/c it could be beneficial for the OP and others who read this thread. This board is chock full of opinions and advice. Stick to advice and opinion please, not absolutes and rudeness.


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

Malabacat - I re-read the post, and I just have to say, huh? No belittling anywhere in any of Gary (Dodge59)'s post.

To the OP - just a comment on DWs: the built-in disposals on the DWs that come with them aren't very good. They add a great deal of noise, but are so small and underpowered, I don't think they are worthwhile. The DW disposals are not at all what you think of when you think of the disposals for your sink. If you think those tiny DW disposals are going to allow you to not scrape, and to put dishes in the DW with bones and chunks of food, you will have a repair needed in no time. I'd rather go in my DW (it's a Miele - love it) once a month or so and see if there's anything in the little filter thingy. I find something maybe twice a year. Please note this is not a hard task--maybe 60 seconds of my time. I do scrape my dishes, but never rinse them - I put them in the DW with sticky sauces, gummed-on oatmeal, hardened tomato sauce, etc.!

Also, keep in mind that regardless of which DW you end up with, choosing the right detergent is key, as is adding a rinse-aid (I choose the supermarket rinse-aid - I don't spend the $$ on the fancy Miele Rinse-aid, and I have never had a problem). There's been a bunch of threads about DW detergent if you want to read up. If your water is hard, you should absolutely get a DW that has a built-in water softener.

This post was edited by Sahmmy on Sun, Jul 20, 14 at 13:35


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

halgreene
"4. Sub-Zero or Thermador 48" side-by side fridge/freezer."

So one opinion is that "halgreene does not need such a large fridge". That's fine, and I'm sure the OP appreciates your input.

Does one think that "Other opinions should not be given"?

From the Op's post, it looked like they wanted an SXS type fridge, not top/bottom freezer type , French doors or "Separates" (Fridge & freezer).

After reading posts on GW for 10 years or more, I've read many many posts about the 36" SXS just not being able to meet the users storage needs. Things like "can't fit a pizza in the freezer",~~~~~ and many other complaints about storage capabilities, but no need to "rehash that here now".

As All of us here, try to give the best inputs we can trying to help folks make the best buying decisions, and based on
halgreene's post, I thought it best to mention the positive aspects of having a large fridge, while at the same time, mentioning some of the complaints I've read about "36 in" fridges. I don't assume they have read all the posts I have about fridges.

It was in NO WAY a dig at those that have 36" SXS fridges and find them adequate.

Gary


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RE: Ideal Appliance Mix?

I do know that things online don't always come across as meant. In reading your post Gary I read it as a jab at my post. I'm glad it was not meant that way. I agree we all just want to give the best input we can so others can benefit from our different views.


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