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Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Posted by jomarn (My Page) on
Fri, Jun 23, 06 at 23:01

I have made all of my appliance decisions (for two kitchens--one for us, and one for a unit we're selling) except our wall oven and induction cooktop, but the latter is a topic for another thread. I have been trying to decide on these for months and I'm not getting anywhere. I'm running out of time!

The only place we can put our microwave is stacked over the wall oven. We're considering several options, but can't decide which way to go.

I think the most important things to me are even cooking, a good-sized broiler element, and value for the price.

Here are the three options I'm currently considering and some thoughts on each:

Miele MasterChef oven with GE Monogram Advantium
Pros:
MasterChef is gorgeous
MasterChef feature is pretty cool
I love the way the door stays where you put it
Rotisserie
Good-sized broiler element
Everyone seems to love both the MasterChef and the Advantium
Cons:
Not sure I'll use the MasterChef features much (old dog, new trick thing)
Not sure I'll use the rotisserie much, but I might
Despite their similar looks, I'm not sure the Advantium will look okay above the Miele, but Miele's speed cook oven is way overpriced and gets poor reviews here
Miele oven is expensive

Dacor oven with matching convection microwave
I can't even break down the pros and cons because I'm completely confused about the various Dacor oven models. Saleswoman showed us the top of the line, but I wonder if we'd be just fine with the old Millenia. But, it doesn't have the rotisserie, for one thing. This seems like a much more reasonably priced option if we go with the Millenia model, and their micro convection oven is reasonably priced compared to the Miele. Would we miss the features of Dacor's higher end models--or of the Miele or Wolf?

Wolf oven with matching convection microwave:
One salesperson said the Wolf oven price was similar to MasterChef, another said it was more. I didn't pin them down, and Wolf doesn't list prices on the Internet, so I can't confirm either statement at this hour. Does anyone know?
Wolf pros include:
Double convection fans for even cooking, which is important to me
Pretty blue interior, which shouldn't even enter into the equation
Convection micro seems pretty reasonably priced for Wolf
Cons:
Not as sleek-looking as Miele, but I still like the look
Door is really heavy, and I'm not sure I like the slow opening feature
Doesn't have an automatic (i.e, MasterChef-like) menu feature, but not sure whether I'd use that anyhow.

We may put a warming drawer on the bottom of the stack. We love the smooth operation of the Miele, but didn't try the Wolf or the Dacor because we weren't really seriously considering it while we were in the store. We also have the option of putting the WD under the cooktop.

How do I make this decision? The pro and con lists don't help all that much because not everything carries the same weight!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

We're shopping for wall ovens right now too, so I know exactly what you mean when you say that it's driving you crazy. Us too. I must add that if another inept salesperson tells me I should just choose according to looks b/c they're basically all the same, I just can't be responsible for my actions...

You have great taste in ovens. Regretably, we've had to rule out your choices due to our budget, except for the classic Dacors. However, I wanted to tell you that Universal online sneakily posts their prices for Wolf, which may help you compare your choices. After you choose the model in the link below, click on the text and type CTRL-a. This will highlight all of the text and reveal a hidden price below the description.

Here is a link that might be useful: wolf ovens


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

jomarn,
go to www.universal-akb.com. Find the Wolf appliance you are interested in and on that page right click, then click select all and then the price should appear. found this out on this forum when I was researching appliance prices.hope this helps


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

We have the Wolf single oven, with the Monogram Advantium above it, and the Wolf warming drawer below. They will be installed next week. I thought the Wolf and Monogram Advantium oven looked okay together (similar pro bar handle), and it gave me all the features I wanted. We went back and forth on the ovens too. It's really a hard decision!


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Alku05 and Always Golf--Thank you! You know, I now remember having read about that on this forum long ago, but I had completely forgotten. You've been a big help!

Elljays--What unique features made you decide on those three options? I hadn't thought of combining the Advantium and the Wolf--great--one more option! LOL! I'd love to hear what helped you to decide.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Jomarn, I knew I wanted a speed oven because it seemed to fit our lifestyle (hectic schedules during the week, especially during the dinner hour). The Advantium just seemed to get the most positive reviews on this forum. I originally was going to get the Miele Masterchef and Miele speed oven, but I couldn't find enough information on their speed oven, even after calling their headquarters. What I did learn was that it just didn't seem to have the features that the Advantium does. I didn't like the looks of the Miele Masterchef with the Advantium. I wasn't sure that I'd use the rotisserie very often, and I probably didn't NEED the Masterchef features. The Wolf oven has always appealed to me, because it just feels so substantial, and I know some people who are thrilled with theirs.
Someone on this forum sent me some pictures of their Wolf with their Advantium, and it convinced me that it would look okay together.
If you'd like, I can post some pictures of ours after they're installed this week.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

If you are set on the Advantium, you really should give a look at the Monogram Trivection wall oven under it. We have greatly enjoyed ours and it is MUCH faster than a normal convection oven. Very substantial feel as well and the styling matches the advantium perfectly.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

We somehow ended up with too many ovens - long story. What we have now is a wall stack - Gagg combi steam over Miele Masterchef (30") over Miele warming drawer. They look great together. We also ended up with a range with a large oven, and also really wanted the rotisserie feature. If I had it to do again I would do the Gagg combi with the narrower Gagg oven (with rotisserie) with the warming drawer. For our purposes, smaller ovens are better. If we could give up the rotisserie (DH wanted it), I'd forget about the regular oven and do cheap microwave, then combi steam then warming drawer.

Since we have an extra oven to play with, don't know if this will help you. We also haven't used the combi oven yet (not hooked up). I don't know about the Gagg oven broiler. The Miele Masterchef broiler is okay not great - but I'm comparing it to our old Chambers stovetop gas broiler that was fabulous. Don't know if any electric broiler would be better than the Miele (except the Aga 6-4). I would also avoid the Miele speedcook from what I've heard here. The Advantium seems well liked, but felt too complicated for us.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

jcthorne--Thanks for the tip. I looked at the Monogram, but hadn't considered the Trivection til I watched the video this morning. It does look interesting--I hate the thought of more decisions, though. I'm not 100% set on the Advantium. It changes daily!

Ejr--Ohhhhh, I am so confused! Earlier this week, I was sure I wanted the Gaggenau oven. The feature that originally drew me to it was the side-opening door. I really like that. I've talked to two salespeople in two different stores, neither of whom was in love with the Gagg. One preferred the Wolf, the other the Miele, but neither could really articulate their reasons. They both just said they didn't feel as though the Gagg offered any additional features for the extra money. But, I do love that side-opening door and the looks of it! And, it certainly gets great reviews here.

Did you consider the Wolf at all? Why would you get the Gagg instead of the Master Chef if you had to do it again? Just because it's smaller? Why do you feel smaller is better?

Although I initially thought bigger was better, I have to admit that, the more I look at ovens and the way I use ours, I seldom use the entire horizontal surface of the rack at once. And, our youngest two kids are in college, so we're definitely in downsizing mode.

I'm a bit worried about whether the Advantium will be too complicated for me, too. It does seem as though people on GW have generally been happier with their Advantiums than with their convection micros. I've considered the steam cook ovens, but have to admit that I'm not sure we'd be big steamers. We're not rice-lovers, I like veggies, but am not sure I'd notice the difference with different cooking methods (e.g., steam)--but, maybe I'd love them if I had steam. . .who knows????? And, to be honest, the steam sounds complicated to me, just like the Advantium!

I did already discount the Mield speedcook because of reviews on GW. So, I guess I've eliminated one thing out of hundreds! LOL!

I don't remember how you ended up with too many ovens, but I can certainly understand how that would happen!


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

I, too, seemed feel like I've been hunting for a wall oven forever. I don't know if your needs are the same as mine (I'm a baker, who wanted a large interior with glide racks, concealed lower element, true convection, etc.) I loved the new Dacors, but eventually ruled them out due to cost. Now, I'm looking seriously at the new Monogram ovens, with the self-cleaning glide racks (neat feature). I wish they had real-time temperature display, but otherwise they look pretty good.

I also liked the Jade and Thermador, both of which had some, but not all, of what I wanted. The Fisher and Paykel also get great reviews here, but I found them smaller than other ovens, with a really big convection fan. Otherwise, they looked really good and are reasonably, by comparison to some, priced.

The new Dacors did "have it all," for me anyway, but I just couldn't pull the trigger on the $5,600 price tag.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

If money isn't the issue the new Dacors have everything, but they are pricey at $3500 for a single oven, the new Monogram ZET1 and 2 series are extremely good values. I eneded up with the classic Dacor's and have been extremely happy. Just could not justify all that money for Wolf, Miele, or the new Dacor's. My wife just like the appearance and fit and finish of thge Dacors. They do a great job on pure convection. Couldn't tell you anything about advantiums, never needed to speedcook.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Money is an issue--it's just a negotiable issue. We're building a house, so if we spend more on one thing, we have to spend less on another. I'm willing to pay more to get an oven that doesn't burn one edge of a pan of brownies while the other side is underdone, and I'd like a broiler that actually broils items that aren't dead center in the oven. (Unlike my current JennAir range!)

However, as much as they sound like fun, I think I could do without some of the bells and whistles that the high end ovens have if I can save a significant amount of money.

Do your classic Decors cook evenly from one side of the oven to the other? It does seem as though people in general are quite pleased with the Dacor classics, although I've seen a few complaints about uneven cooking in the new super expensive ones. I think if I were to get a Dacor, it would be the classic.

Also, I'm hoping someone can confirm this for me--Am I correct that Dacor is still making the classics, so that when people refer to the "old" Decor, they just mean a model that's been around a while as opposed to one that's been discontinued? I want to make sure that I don't need to run right out and buy one before they're gone if that's what I decide on.

Thanks again!


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Do you think I could put Advantium over Dacor Classic?

I've been doing more research here on the Dacor and I'm thinking that may be a good choice. I think the Master Chef features on the Miele are so cool, but I don't even use the automatic cooking guide on my microwave, so what makes me think I'll use it on my oven?

Anyhow, if I were to go with the Dacor Classic, do you think the Monogram Advantium would look okay over it? Definitely different designs, but similar shapes going on. I'm not obsessive about stuff like this, but I don't want it to look completely mismatched.

Here's a link to the Dacor:
http://ww1.dacor.com/products/product_page.asp?ID=mcs130

And the link to the Monogram Advantium is below.

Thanks again.

Here is a link that might be useful: Monogram Advantium 120


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

For what it's worth, the Dacor, Miele, and Wolf were the three ovens I was deciding between. I ended up choosing the Wolf and couldn't be happier with it. I love the look. The convection mode is quiet (however all of these brands were quiet when I tested them), and I love the soft open door on the Wolf. I don't think that you can go wrong with any of these. Good luck!


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

using the pure convection, yes they cook evenly even with 5 cookie sheets in there at one time. Yes Dacor does still make the 'classic' series. The original (classic) Dacor's have exposed elements, which I believe heat faster, and more evenly than hidden elements, and are probably easier to service if necessary. The only line Dacor is discontinuing is the 'preference series' ovens. All Dacor 'classic' ovens do the same thing, they just change the outside appearance. I have the Epicure 'Classics'. Another line you may consider is Bosch. While doing the research they were pretty full featured and a price less than GE profile.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bosch


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

For what it's worth, quite a number of salespeople at my local appliance store (Abt electronics) say the two best ovens they carry are the Miele Masterchef and the Wolf. They say these are both a notch above all the others, and they sell quite a few of both, but that the others are for the most part all pretty decent ovens, too. Thier demonstration kitchen has 1 Wolf and 1 Miele which get constantly used. Personally, I like the Miele control panel better, but I wouldn't kick either out of my kitchen! For what it's worth, they both offer different cosmetic options, some of which may look better with an Advantium. Don't know anything about the Dacor--sorry. Is that the one that has the control panel you can change colors on? I was playing with that at Abt the other day--pretty cool control panel!

My sister just picked up an advantium (120v otr, outside vented) and she is quite pleased with it.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Don't forget Thermador, which we have and are pleased with. Sorry to add to your confusion.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Before you get a Dacor oven, test out the broiler. I use a broiler a lot, and the Dacor performance on that issue is sub par. However their convection microwave (made by Sharp) is inexpensive, fully featured, and (with a trim kit) really looks good above a Master Chef.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Sorry - haven't been back for a while. As far as small ovens go. As long as you have an oven that can fit a turkey, I think that's big enough. We had a very small oven on our Chambers stove and it was big enough - even fit a medium sized turkey. I looked at the Lacanche threads for a while and their small ovens seem big enough to people using them. I would rather have two small ovens that you can put at different temps than one large one. Less time to heat up, less to clean when it gets dirty. When we broil in the 30" Miele that whole oven gets dirty.

I'm certainly not unhappy with the Miele - and haven't been able to cook enough to take advantage of all the features yet. But I think the Gagg steam and a 24" or 27" oven would have been plenty for us (even without the range oven). We would gain 3" or 6" of counter space and storage. Also the Gagg oven isn't as tall as the Miele so our steamer-oven-warming drawer line would have been at a better height. The side opening steam oven (which also functions as a regular convection oven) made this work.

The Wolf MW-Oven-WD were also contenders for us as were the Advantium and trivection. They are difficult choices. I would say though (from comments on this forum rather than experience) if you have a choice, the WD seems to function better under the cooktop rather than on the bottom of the oven stack.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Thanks, everyone for all your help. I actually ended up ordering my appliances today and, for once, I didn't buy the most expensive option of the ovens I was considering!

I ended up going with the Dacor. I really love the looks of the Miele and the Wolf--and they each have some great features. While I was waiting for my saleswoman, the Miele rep, who happened to be in the store, asked if he could help me. I said, "Sure, why don't you tell me all about the Master Chef oven." Interestingly, his demo confirmed my fears that I might not use the Master Chef features very much. I'm not very good at cooking roasts, and that is one reason I thought the Master Chef might be good for me. As he was showing me the features, I was surprised that one doesn't have to enter the weight of the roast. Long story short, he explained that, as the roast cooks, the temperature probe will figure out the temperature, and the time countdown will get more accurate. I'm sure I'd end up with a great tasting roast, but I won't have any idea when we're going to be eating dinner, nor can I plan ahead to have the roast ready by a certain time unless I consult a cookbook. And, if I'm going to have to consult the cookbook in the first place to find out how long the roast will take, I don't really need the Master Chef feature!

I think the temperature probe will be helpful for pinpointing when the roast is done, but the Dacor has that, too. I know the broiler in the Dacor isn't great, but that's probably the least important of the things that are important to me, so I'm letting that one go.

It seems as though so many GW people are happy with their Dacors, so I decided to save $1300-$1700 and get the Millenium Classic. My logic tells me that I now have $1500 (the average savings) to spend on something else for the new house!

Ejr--I gave the stacked vs. under-cooktop warming drawer thing a lot of thought, and I've decided to go with under the cooktop. For casual family meals, we tend to serve from the stove rather than at the table, and I think it would be nice to keep the extra food in the warming drawer for second helpings (not that I need them). For that reason alone, having it higher and near the cooktop makes sense to me. Plus, I can't imagine trying to get, for instance, a cup of soup, out of the lower drawer without spilling it.

Anyhow, thanks, everyone, for your input. You all helped me to chew this over and make a decision!


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

I'm surprised to hear that the Dacor is not good for broiling. I was told the Dacor is great for broiling. Why are people saying that it is not good for that? (I'm referring to the classic).


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

I just started using the Dacor classic, and i'm very pleased with the broil function--much better than my old KA.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Mally, you never heard me say that, and I bake a lot. In my Dacors. I have no hesitation recommending the broiler, either.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

One point is that there are six advantium models, all different. The newest, and the one that has all the features, is the Profile (not Monogram) built-in 120 (not 220). This is the one that can double as a second oven. It is slower than the 220 Advantium, however, being only 120. Read the GE site very carefully. It also has the advantage of being 27" (comes with a 30" kit) so that it can be used with a 27" oven to save some space.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

fairegold,

You indicated you bake alot, but do you broil and how is the performance on the Dacor? The Dacor has a 3000 watt broiler, compared to GE, Miele, FP and Bosch which have broilers ranging from 3600 - 4000 watts. Broiler wattage really does matter and the more power the better, and even the new Dacor ovens only have a 3000 watt broiler. BTW, CR does not rate Dacor well for broiling.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

I have not used the broilers in any of the other ovens that you mention, but we usually do lamb chops under the broiler, and they come out better than I have ever produced in any other oven.

Part of the CU broiler test is to fill a pan side to side with burger patties, and they want the aptties on the edges to be the same as the ones in the middle. I have no real-life need to ever do that, so their idea of a test doesn't do much for me.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

factsearch, i have broiled fish several times now in the Dacor, both thin fish and steaks, and all have come out right (in spite of user error on the first try). To me this is the test of a good broiler (and competent broiler user!). The fish had a nice glaze on the outside and was tender and juicy inside, as it should be. A higher wattage broiler doesn't necessarily mean it's better configured.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

fairegold,

I think the CR test is a practical test of broiler performance, because it pertains to uniform browning. If I put a tray of chops in for broiling, which we do, I would expect even browning from side-middle-side with these new 8-pass elements, and there are ovens out there that do that, maybe not the Dacor. The same is true if we used standard bake, and I think it boils down to individual cooking requirements and expectations, and a new oven should have uniform browning, accurate temperature control, and you should be able to use all of it's cooking modes "not just convection" without some gadget "Hearthkit" to make it work correctly. At a price of "$3600 - $5600" for these mid to high-end ovens poor cooking performance is unacceptable.

msrivise, a higher broiler wattage provides a better sear for steaks and roasting.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

As I've said before, factsearch, I'm bowing to your expertise as a baker, and will follow your advice from now on. I am still happy with my Dacor ovens, which have done everything I've wanted to perfection, with absolutely no problems at all.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

i dunno, factsearch. I have yet to hear anyone say they like the performance of their GE Profile better than the Dacor Classic. And that's the one i'm talking about, the classic, not the new one. I paid 1800. I had a KA before, and the Dacor classic beats it to dust, so far.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

jcthorne - how is the broiler feature on the Trivection? That's the wall oven we have decided upon, but I haven't been able to read much about broil in anything from GE. We're also getting the Advantium and the WD, so the wall will at least look good! We'll see how they all work together.

thanks.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

msrevise - As I have stated in other posts we have a GE Monogram ZET958, which is the same as the GE Profile JT955 except the GE Monogram has convection in both ovens and has porcelain racks. My mother has a KitchenAid and I have provided specific details on the cooking performance of both those ovens on other posts. The only detailed cooking performance on the DACOR was by snowbaby on another post, so I would say the verdict is still out on the overall cooking performance of the classic DACOR ovens. Cooking performance is as much perception as it is real, and we have some friends that just remodeled, and they purchased a 30" WOLF double oven and they don't cook, but if you asked them how well the oven performed they would say great. Now if you asked them what they cooked they would tell you frozen foods, and in their mind as long as the item cooked per the instructions on the box it's a great oven.

Relative to broilers the KitchenAid has a 1667 watt broiler compared to the 3000 watt broiler on your DACOR, so you should expect a better result, and this proves factsearch's point. The GE Monogram/Profile uses a 3600 watt 8 pass broiler, and it provides excellent searing and even browning, and the broiler can be used in both open and closed door.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

dkb, i didn't know there was no power diff. between the monogram and the profile; usually they're not made by the same mfr, even, so i stand corrected on that. I had a GE Profile cooktop before, and wouldn't begin to compare it to the Monogram rangetop, since it's totally different, and in fact since switching from the Profile to a pro-style rangetop i see a huge improvement in practically everything i cook, even w/my cheesy old pots.

My KA ovens were older, i have no idea what the power level was, but it was all open-door broil, and it never cooked evenly. Frankly, i bought my gas range assuming i'd use it for most of my broiling, since it has an IR broiler, and for bread-baking, while i chose the Dacor for its well-known baking ability and all-around good performance. As it is, i've broiled more in the Dacor so far b/c my range oven has something wrong w/it and is being replaced, and I've been very satisfied w/the outcome w/the Dacor. I'm a previous owner of many GE appliances, most of which were disappointing in their performance and/or longevity. I looked at all three ovens the OP considered, and i preferred the Dacor, so i thought i'd post about how pleased i am w/the oven.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Many have stated that Miele Speed Oven has problems... please tell me, as I'm about to order one to go above my Miele Oven

thanks


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Don't know if this will help.... I went through all the shopping for an oven & spent a year on it: Dacor because of reputation, Miele because of the bells & whistles, on & on & on. I finally settled on the Gaggenau. I looked for basic options I wanted: Automatic on & off, convection & self-cleaning (my husband & I gourmet cook). My husband insisted on a double oven. (When the Micro went out earlier, I bought a KitchenAid combo micro/convection-love it). I was able to argue that I did not need 2 ovens because I had two (it worked) & I got my Gaggenau 27" (Which by the way has almost as much space as an American 30"). BEST Move I ever made! The Rotisserie is a dream. Not only can it take the weight it does not allow the food to "Jerk" as it turns. I bake almost everything on convection & because this oven has so many ways to "finish" food the taste this oven delivers is to die for! You do need to learn to "use" your oven as a cooking tool. (Americans tend to get pans & roasters to stick their food into & THEN put it in the oven. Europeans use their oven as the cooking pans & it works sooo much better). My husband is happy as well with the results, the simplicity of its use, & the fact that he can tell what temperature the oven is at (not just what its set at)& when he uses the probe, the actual internal temperature of the meat(it does get used a lot).

I decided against the warming drawer but did shop for them & felt that Miele, because the sides were open, would allow more freedom of access. My oven works great for keeping things warm.

OK, now to the G.E. Advantium I must say that I have been really pleased with the free standing KitchenAid but needed an over the stove unit for the 5th wheel (I missed my convection oven). After shopping I bought the best bang for my buck (it had to be 110. It also comes in 220, which cooks even faster).

The Advantium is easy to use & will help you in its use. I have the one with the 100 Pre-Programmed Menu (reminded me of the Miele I almost bought). Its great but if I had to do it again, I guess Id not spend the extra $80. for that feature (as I thought before-too much info & I will never use it) however overall the unit is great.

In summary:
1) Determine what you CAN"T LIVE WITHOUT & the extras you want (ie: convection, rotisserie, etc). & what you really DONT NEED (havent used & probably wont).

2) Call the Mfg & to find a store that will demo the real thing.

3) USE the Garden Web FORUM (they been a real help to me too.) Use the Internet to find as much info as you can.

4) Then SHOP for it! (I got my $4,000 oven for $2,000)

Good Luck & happy shopping!!!


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

I have the Dacor Millenia w/ Dacor Guide (the new one) -- it's fantastic so far. I baked biscotti and shortbread cookies the other night, using multiple racks and pure convection, and they turned out GREAT!

I've also used regular bake on a frozen pizza, which came out nicely, and surround convection/sear on a tray of marinated chicken breasts that developed the most gorgeous crunchy skin on top while remaining tender inside.

The newer Dacor's broiling element is smaller than the bottom element, so it doesn't broil to the very edges of the oven cavity -- you need to make sure what you're broiling is a few inches in from the sides. For most folks this isn't an issue, and is not an issue for me.

Don't be a single-issue voter when it comes to features. While the Dacor may have a 3,000 watt broiler versus someone else's 3,600w or 4,000w, that doesn't make the higher powered broiler better. Also keep in mind that the elements on the newer Dacor ovens are hidden and extremely easy to clean, while giving a tad more space on the inside.

I don't have any experience with the older Dacor model, but would pretty much rule it out due to the smaller window opening -- the one I saw, a "Classic", seemed to have a tiny window compared to the new one.

As far as performance goes on the newer Dacor, I couldn't be happier. It does everything I need. I had issues with Dacor quality control, as the first few units delivered to my house were damaged, but now I have a good one that works and I'm quite happy.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

We are looking to replace a double wall oven and pretty much decided to go with a Thermador C series until I read some really bad reviews. To bad because we really liked the way they looked and oven space. Can anyone confirm these reviews? And if so what would be a beter replacement? We are limited to 27". Features important to us are durability, ease of use, noise, convection and commercial power.
Thanks.........Buffy


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

We have the Wolf Double Stainless 30", unframed. Still looks good outside, slowly deteriorating inside. Go for Dacor or Miele (but get the real self-cleaner if you go Miele).

Otherwise, Thermador Professional is a good choice at 1500 cheaper than Miele/Wolf (5700-ish) - Dacor pricing I don't know but they look like a good oven, too.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Your Wolf Double Ovens are deteriorating inside, pugger?!?!

These are the ovens we were going to splurge on (and possibly not do a built-in fridge to fudge the budget)! Please elaborate - you really advise against Wolf?


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

I have 6 kids still at home and 2 sets married with kids so do a lot of big family meals, therefore are getting double wall ovens with kitchen reno. Am losing my mind over wall ovens - for over a year I have been trying to find the "right" oven for us, $$$ not the real issue, function is. I was sold on Viking, then switched to Dacor, then ready to order Miele....finally settled on GE Profile JT915WF (I can get double wall oven $2500 Canadian, so probably only $2000 or so US) BECAUSE the floor of the oven slides out for cleaning and to access the element. I want the covered element but am afraid of the service issues and do like the thought of taking tray out to clean. This is at least $2000 less than my best price on the "pro" models and pays for building in fridge!
Still, I cook endlessly and hugely...live on a farm and do a lot of our own meat and produce, have big dinners (25-30) every week or so....will these ovens really be my best answer? CR has scared me with reports of service problems...and I have one 20 year old GE wall oven that is still going faithfully so am inclined re:repair history.
Has anyone used the GEProfile Ovens?


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

I think there are groups of people that can reccomend all these ovens mentioned. I have a Miele MC dbl oven and it cooks meals perfectly. I use a meat thermometer instead of the probe.

The Miele customer service is the value added for me.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

My husband and I are in this process, of choosing wall ovens, as well. However, it was made much easier by my husband's research on consumersreports.com. We were interested in finding the best performing ovens with the lowest repair record, indicating reliablity. While Thermador, Viking and Jenn-Air are good performing appliances, their repair record is less than admirable, according to Consumer's Reports. Having this information before even entering the appliance store was extremly helpful. We knew in advance which brands we would even consider so all we had to do was find the best look for the design of our kitchen. We went with either GE, Bosch and Dacor. The wall ovens are GE Profile, GE Monogram Profile gas cook top and a Dacor warming oven, because it could be fitted with a panel front to match the cabintry.
Also, Consumer's Reports lists the price of each appliance so that we did not have to rely on a salesperson's information. This helped us to choose ahead of time, knowing what would fit into our budget, or if we would go over budget to get what we wanted. Hope this helps.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

You may wish to check out this article at appliance.com. The Dacor and Miele consistently come out on top in terms of performance and features.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

I have owned my Dacor millenium classic oven for 18 months now and would stay away from Dacor. The electronics on the Dacor oven are too unreliable. I have had problems with both boards and they are quite expensive to fix if you are not under warranty.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

This is too late to help the original poster but perhaps it will help someone reading now. I needed a 27" double oven. Remodeling for a wider oven is NOT an option. I just ordered a 27" Viking Designer Premier oven. The digital control panel that had given trouble in the past has been redesigned and is ok now according to the dealer, whom I trust. It has several features I could not find elsewhere: racks with ball-bearings, modes that include a proofing temperature, a LARGE window, a sealed broiler unit that uses infrared, large halogen lights, a digital panel that disappears when not in use, heavier than normal racks, and a very sleek look. I opted to buy it locally even though I am sure I could have saved money by ordering online. I need help with the installation and possible cabinet modification. I decided I could not deal with the hassle of coordinating installation and purchase through two companies. I should have it before Thanksgiving. I promise to return here (and to Epinions) and write a review after we've used it a while. The price was not cheap. But we are always aware of resale value. Our other appliances are Bosch (dishwasher), Viking disposal, Thermador professional cooktop, Ventahood hood. Terrible compactor and fridge (only one choice would fit the space....).

Here is a link that might be useful: Viking Designer Premiere double oven


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

DO NOT BUY A DACOR OVEN!!!!! I spend $4,000 on this over, it has broken three times in 3 years. Dacor warrantly is for 1 year---and now I know why. It looks great, it works well when it works, but expect to spend $500 a year to keep it working.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

RE: GE Monogram 27" Electric Double Wall Convection Oven Model ZEK958SMSS, $ 2,800.I thought I had made the right choice while remodeling my kitchen, but regrettably didn't do a trial. Oven looks good, but doesn't do a good job. Heating too slow. It takes 15 to 17 min to preheat from 325 to 350, and 20 to 22 min to heat to 425-450 degrees. My old Thermador convection oven had baked potatoes by then. A technician guided me by phone to set the controls 20 degrees higher, but that didn't shorten heating time much.
Slits on top of both doors blow air into the kitchen during cooking, continuing to blow long after oven is shut off. Why exhaust into the kitchen? Old Thermador's exhaust went outside. Designer engineers: you add to noise, heat, pollution, allergies.
What's the difference between regular convection oven, true convection oven, pure convention oven? Is this GE a true convection oven? Consumer education needed. Fan simply dries out food. GE Monogram rep. said all this was normal. Refused to tell me where it was made. No help. Right light went out. I am thinking of biting the financial bullet and exchanging it. Dacor, Wolf, or Miele, combination Microwave/Convection oven???, 27" only. Recommendations appreciated. This is more frustrating than buying a car.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

This is an old thread but I am currently struggling with wall oven. We bought a 30 inch Thermador pod301 professional. Looks good (although the stainless is a diff. shade from our subzero and asko dishwasher) but 5 wks in I have yet to get a repair on the fan, which makes a very loud noise and renders the thing unusable. The vendor is not local, and outsources both installation and repair... I finally demanded they remove this broken oven from my house and give my money back. So now I'm thinking about the Wolf, because they have a local dealer who repairs and installs. Also would match my refrig and dishwasher. But I really like the thermador, despite the company's refusal to simply replace a machine that arrived with a problem...


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Just in case you are still thinking about oven choice... I have a Wolff gas range and a Thermador, both 6 years old now and both like new. The Wolff had ignitor issues the first year but when the warranty expired, they suggested that my unit should be replaced, which it was. They really stand behind their product, which makes me a happy and loyal customer. I use the Thermador oven mostly and it's great. My mom has a Miele, which I used recently and thought worked beautifully. So it's hard to go wrong.


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RE: Please help! Wall ovens driving me crazy--Wolf, Miele, Dacor?

Take it from me what CR says about Thermador wall ovens is absolutely true. I have purchased two 30" C series Thermador ovens and am getting ready to replace the one that was existing in the home we purchased last year.

Loved the way my Thermador's cooked, baked, and broiled but had to have them repaired. It seems there is insufficient insulation between the oven and the electric control panel and when you use the self clean, over time, it causes the control panel to fail. This is a minimum $1,000 repair. I live in Dallas and there is only ONE company in this area that will service Thermador ovens because Thermador service dept is so difficult to deal with. My regular service company which is efficient and costs are fair told me they stopped servicing Thermador ovens for that reason and three others I tried said the same thing. Both my Thermador ovens needed the control panel replaced within three years of purchasing and the one in our new home could not pass inspection and had to be repaired by the seller before we moved in - yep it was the panel and it cost them $1,200. They didn't cook and it was an older oven.

The space we have for the wall oven is 27" and after looking and looking and doing research and reading here and other web sites with independent reviews by actual owners we have chosen the Miele Master Chef Classic Series which has the Novatronic controls which everyone seems to love. This choice was made in part because of the rotisserie feature which we do use quite a bit along with other features we liked and which were well reviewed. It was more expensive but we went with a straight Microwave which suites our needs and we chose the Electrolux Ei27MO45TS microwave which meets all our needs and was well reviewed. Went with the Miele warming drawer because of the match and the fact that it was the same price as most other warming drawers we were considering.

We stack our ovens in an unusual way which we really like with the actual wall oven first, then the microwave, and then the warming drawer. It is logical to us because the heaviest items come out of the oven and having it at the top means no stooping and it's easier on the back. We usually only use the warming drawer when we entertain and to reheat leftovers which it does so much better than a microwave.
Still trying to decide on which Fridge and Freezer columns to choose but that's another forum


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