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Ovens: Miele vs. Advantium + Wolfe

Posted by lwerner (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 3, 12 at 19:41

Hi everyone. I'm trying to decide on ovens and am getting a bit stressed. I don't know why, since construction probably won't even start until July. I suppose if I didn't stress about this I'd just find something else. :-)

Here ahe choices I'm thinking of on the ovens, with what I think the tradeoffs might be:

  • All Miele: 24" speed oven with 30" trim, plus 30" single wall oven. I really like the fit and finish on these, and their convection ovens have a great rep. Even an appliance salesman who was trying to steer me toward Monogram (more below) said there was no question in his mind that the Mieles are better built. As far as I can tell, the one compromise with this choice is on the speed oven: a bit less full-featured than the advantium (no bottom element, no turntable) and noticeably smaller. Probably still big enough for almost anything I'll cook, though. And I like the MasterChef feature and would probably pay for it on the speed oven, though probably not on the main oven.
  • All Monogram: At an appliance store yesterday, as soon as I said "speed oven" the salesguy steered me toward the Monogram Advantium. It looks like a great oven, and I love the turntable and the lower ceramic heating unit. He suggested pairing it with the Monogram single wall oven and maybe the Monogram 42" side-by-side built-in fridge if I want a built-in. My main misgiving here is that it's GE, and every GE appliance I've owned has been a piece of crap. When I mentioned this to the sales guy he said the Monograms were "better built pieces of crap" and that I'd be fine if I bought an extended warranty. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
  • Monogram / Advantium speed oven plus Wolfe single convection oven. I've seen photos of this combination over on the Kitchens forum (from a2gemini, I think?) and they look pretty nice together. Not quite as good as a pair from the same line, but good enough. This would me the fuller-featured (but probably less reliable) Advantium speed oven with a non-GE regular oven. The Wolf seems to have a good reputation on these forums, though CR doesn't like it. (I'm not sure I trust them that much on higher-end appliances, though.)

Did my analysis of those tradeoffs seem reasonable accurate? What am I missing? Are there any other options that I haven't thought of?

For whatever it's worth, I think I've narrowed down most of my choices except the oven:

  • Fridge: Counter-depth, french door, 36", from either Samsung or LG. Both get good ratings for quietness, both have the features I want, both seem pretty solid when I mess with them at appliance stores. I had thought about going with a 42" built-in, but I don't want to lose the 6" of counter space and the only built-in I really liked on the inside was the Monogram (it has more room than the others), but it's GE.
  • Dishwasher: Bosch 800 series. I have an older Bosch right now and love it, and the newer ones seem even better.
  • Cooktop: Wolf 36" gas. I was leaning toward Thermador for the looks and because I can get a deal on it through DirectBuy (yeah, I know...*). But the salesman I talked to demoed both the Thermador and Wolf for me yesterday. I liked the layout on the Wolf better, and the performance seemed better too. It has a really nice, genuine low simmer and on full heat it feels even hotter than the Thermador even though it's "only" 15,000 btu/h vs. Thermador's 18,000.
  • Hood: Probably a Broan with an external blower.
  • Plumbing: Blanco silgranit sinks (though CR managed to destroy one in their latest review), Waterstone pull-down faucets.

There are some sketchup drawings of the layout here if anyone wants to see. The most recent 4 or 5 with different hood designs are the "final" layout.

Thanks for any advice you have!


*BTW, on the Direct Buy thing... The company as a whole feels pretty slimy, but all the individuals I've met there are great. I still wouldn't have joined if I'd had to go through their regular hard sales pitch. I would have run screaming for the hills. One of my best friends was the manager of a franchise for years and gradually talked me into it, without forcing me to sit through the sales pitch. Plus she gave me a big discount on the membership. I probably won't buy many appliances there (maybe the fridge and dishwasher) and will go to my local dealer for them. However, I can buy most of the other big-ticket items through them: flooring, roofing, siding, plumbing, ... which will save me a ton of money. My project is a whole house remodel and expansion (almost but not quite a tear-down; there will be 2 exterior walls left standing) in the super-expensive SF bay area.

Follow-Up Postings:

RE: Ovens: Miele vs. Advantium + Wolfe

Take the time to do a search here in GW, on the main appliance page, just use your "back arrow" to get to the appliance page, and then at the bottom of the page, type in Miele Oven.

If you don't do this, you "could be" stressed more than You are now. There are a number of reports here, as well as other web-sites, where posters are complaining about "Low Temperatures" on the Miele ovens, sometimes as low as _50F from the set temp and some instances of -100F.

We have seen no posts, so far, that this problem has been resolved.

Do all Miele ovens have this problem??? Nope but if you are into "Crap Shoots" then do as the saleman suggest, Yes they may be "Better Built", but to me, that means when you tell it what to do--IE heat to 400 F, to me, "Better Built" means it would do it time and time again, as does the Electrolux Icon oven I've had for >5 years now and trouble free and always spot on temp wise.

Rhome has had good luck with her Wolf oven, so another place to look.

As many of us here Mention, Not one manufacturer makes the best of everything, Miele makes great Speed ovens and dishwashers, almost a sure bet on those---at least according to the info available to us, at the present time, their ovens are not in the same category as above!

Good luck on your Hunt!!!


RE: Ovens: Miele vs. Advantium + Wolfe

Current models of the Miele speed oven do have a bottom element, and have had this for a couple of years now. So unless you're getting an older floor model, you should expect this will have a (hidden) bottom element.

The Advantium is very nice, and its programmed recipes may be better than the MasterChef stuff. The 220 v models have good reports of reliability here.

Miele's small speed oven heats up to temperature quickly. Compared to a regular oven, this is really nice for making stuff that fits in the smaller space and doesn't take long to cook. It can be the difference between making something and not bothering.

There were (are?) concerns about heating accuracy in Miele regular ovens, and difficulty getting this problem fixed. This has not been an issue with their speed oven. You may want to look in to this issue, if you haven't.

I don't see why everyone doesn't get induction, rather than gas and certainly rather than old style electric. If you haven't heard of induction, then you may want to look into it. But if you've considered it and decided not to get it, then never mind.

The Kitchen forum is a good place to get feedback on layout questions, if you have any.

RE: Ovens: Miele vs. Advantium + Wolfe

Thanks for the responses!

@dodge59: I'd seen one or two posts about the Miele temperature problems, but I hadn't searched for it. Yikes. It's hard to tell how pervasive the problem is, since typically the people who are happy aren't as vocal about it, but with this much smoke there's probably some fire. I'll see if I can hunt down a local repair person and get their honest opinion on this.

I definitely agree that not one manufacturer makes the best of everything. That's why I'm considering combinations like Wolf oven + Advantium speed oven + Wolf cooktop + Bosch dishwasher + ... :-)

@chac_mool: thanks for the info on the bottom element in the Miele speed oven.

I really prefer gas. Partly because I don't want to replace all my cookware. (Mostly stainless, but the "good" 18/10 kind that won't work with induction, plus some aluminum.) But also because I really liked the gas cooktop I used to have. (They were pretty common in apartments in Chicago, but I don't see them much out here around SF.)

I did post my layout on the kitchen forum a few weeks ago and got some good advice. The current layout is partially a result of that: I ended up moving the sinks, fridge, and oven around to make the layout more functional.


RE: Ovens: Miele vs. Advantium + Wolfe

lwerner - yes, I have the combo and they look great together.
The only thing is the displays are different colors - but if you go with the Wolf L series - that is solved.

RE: Ovens: Miele vs. Advantium + Wolfe

Thanks, a2gemini! I knew I'd seen that photo somewhere on the other forum. I just went and added it to my clippings.

I think I actually like the look of your E series with the Advantium better than the L series. That recessed part of the door under the L-series handle doesn't match the Advantium very well IMO, t least in the photoshop paste-up I did. I think that would bother me more than the display being a different color.

I just found another reason to avoid GE. My manager at work just told me that his GE Monogram range died last week. When the repairman showed up he took one look at it and said "Oh, no. Not another one of these things," and he eventually declared it unrepairable. It's too bad, because a lot of their products look nice and have good feature sets. I'm willing to take a chance on the Advantium because it has such a good reputation here on the forums, but not on their other products.

BTW, I think it was you who recommended the Waterstone faucets so highly on the kitchens forum. I found one really cheap on eBay last week and it just arrived last night. Very nice! I think I have to install it in my current house so I can use it before the new place is done. :-) If only my back weren't acting up -- squirming around under the sink probably isn't a great idea for me right now. But I'm tempted anyway.


RE: Ovens: Miele vs. Advantium + Wolfe

a2Gemini -- That is prety snazzy. We were looking at the L-Sries Wolf oven. Is anyone out there aware of any pictures of an Advantium above an L Series Wolf oven?

RE: Ovens: Miele vs. Advantium + Wolfe

I have sung the praises of my Advantium (paired with the E Wolf, as above, but with storage drawer between.) It has been the workhorse of the kitchen. But, the turntable stopped about one month after the warranty expired. Wish I got the extended warranty.

RE: Ovens: Miele vs. Advantium + Wolfe

Lwerner- any decisions?

Tilenut - ouch - did you have the 120 or 240 version?

I thought I saw some posts that the Miele temp problem was resolved.

One thing to remember- even on the wolf- when the temp setting dings- this is not the air temp and it is best to give it time to equalize the air temp - I wonder if that was the issue with the Miele or if it never achieved the correct temp.

My wolf does achieve the stated temp.

Also- which Waterstone did you snag- wow! I thought I did ok on CL with a Boos cart and KA mixer

This post was edited by a2gemini on Fri, Mar 29, 13 at 12:20

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