I am still stuck between Miele and Wolf. I went to an appliance demo and the Wolf seems more solidly built. I like the rotisserie in the Miele and the look is very modern, but the doors just dont seems as well built as the Wolf. I also think the dual convection fans in the Wolf will provide more even convection cooking.

have you looked at fisher paykel?

Only online. I like the sleeker look of the other two and the electronic controls. I dont think FP does Proof mode in their ovens either

Picking ovens is hard, isn't it?

The FP does not need a dedicated mode for proofing bread b/c it can be set as low as 80 degrees on most modes. Quoting from my users manual:

"Your AeroTech oven provides an ideal sealed environment to proof bread. Preheat the oven on Bake at 80 F. When you are ready to proof dough, turn the temperature and mode to off and place the dough in a covered bowl on a shelf in the warm oven. It will be the perfect tempeature to proof dough and the Aerotech oven is so well insulated that it will stay warm for several hours."

When we were choosing ovens, we ruled out the Miele, Wolf, and new Dacors (too expensive) and then the Thermodors (too loud, although their new models may be quieter). We were mainly choosing between the Monogram with dials (the older model with touch pad is lacking perks that this one has) and the FP. When it came down to it, the FP was better in every way (more modes, smaller temp increments, etc.) except for the racks. It was a close decision but we chose the FP.

Hard isnt the word..LOL.. Can you tell us why you ruled out Wolf and Miele??

I highly recommend the Miele ovens. I had the same impression as cuzvin when I went to the appliance store. Now that I've used the oven for 7 months, I do not regret my choice for one moment.

There have been no issues with the glass fogging (you might do a Wolf oven search on that).

What I feel it has over the Wolf is that the oven vents heat down, not up. The control panel does not get warm at all.

The thing I feared about the Miele -- the various settings -- turn out to be a huge asset.

I do like that the Wolf rack slides out on the door. However, I also like the Miele rack because it has a drip pan that slides underneath. As a result, when I use convection roast I no longer use a roasting pan. The food goes right on the rack and the browning is extremely even.

Both are excellent choices.

Have you baked 3-6 racks of cookies at one time in the oven? Did they all come out eveny browned? At a recent product demo at a local appliance store, the Miele people made different appetizers. I noticed the pigs in the blanket appetizers werent all evenly browned. This worried me. The Wolf person made chocolate chip cookies on a small cookie sheet. They all looked evenly browned. Now I wonder if the small cookie sheet was purposely used because if a larger one was used maybe they wouldnt have cooked evenly. The pizza on the baking stone that the WolF chef made was awesome. SHe used store bought pizza dough.
Mabe I should get one of each oven!! LOL!!
I have done many searches on Wolf ovens and didnt see anything about the glass steaming up. Is this a problem with these ovens? My sister in law has a KA oven and had a problem with moisture getting between the glass. I dont want the same problem.

cuznvin -- There have been reports for some time about moisture in the oven glass with the Wolf. Try the search again. Most of those were a couple of years back, then nothing for a long time. One or two reappeared a few months ago. Perhaps someone recalls those.

Nothing recently so it may well have been resolved. The response by the company to anything has always been very positive, however.

I've made 2 sheets of cookies in the Miele. Everything was evenly browned. In fact I was surprised how even. Every time I expect a negative with this oven I get a positive.

I have not seen side-by-side tests of the two ovens but of course that would be the best and most useful, provided they were tested with the same food, size equipment etc.

Is there some place you could bring your own equipment and cookie dough to do this? I know there's a showroom in California where people have.

Haven't gotten around to buying a new pizza stone yet. Those always make fabulous pizza as long as the oven is really hot and the stone is hot. As a test, I'd go by the convection baking with multiple racks, myself.

They were the two ovens I also considered (I was replacing one and very picky on details.) The tipping point for me was when I touched the control panel on the Wolf in the showroom and it was hot. I was told that was because the oven had been on for a while and vents around the top of the door (most do).

Don't know if that's changed now (someone here said it had -- certainly something to check) but I'd been there and wasn't going there again.

Either of these ovens will perform. Bentley vs Rolls.

MAybe there will be another demo at the appliance store. There was one yesterday. Maybe I will call the Miele guy and ask if he will allow me to do a test. I like the probe function better than the Wolf's also.The thing that worries me is what is stated in the Miele manual. It says, "when baking 3 trays of cookies or cakes at the same time, remove the respective tray when the desired browning is reached" Does this mean they all arent going to brown evenly? What if I used 6 sheets at one time????
Some things that worry me about Wolf is that I saw two posts about the blue interior coming off.
I think I was the one who said the Wolf vented out the bottom. When I turned it on at the appliance store, the fan was blowing underneath the top oven.
I think a top brand would perform, but I had a Mercedes SUV and didnt like it as much as my Nissan Murano!
I appreciate your input and guidance!

My (single) oven has 3 racks. So you could do 3 per oven; 6 in 2 ovens. I haven't yet done 3 in my oven on convection bake. I'm more likely to do tarts and pastries than cookies. The two trays I did were evenly browned over each tray, with no switching.

Best to test it for yourself if possible. Then you know. Or you might ask other posters, such as trailrunner, who bake a lot.

I can tell you from experience that the Miele probe shocked me. I've always used instant read thermometers so I wasn't even focused on that. But I've used it now several times and it's like having kitchen help! It completely eliminates any testing. Don't need to open the oven at all (I was told by Miele guy not to anyway). When the meat gets nearly done the probe starts a countdown on the display. That takes the guesswork out of timing the rest of the meal -- it's quite fabulous. I didn't trust it the first time but used it again and realized how powerful/convenient/advanced that feature is. The meat was perfectly cooked each time.

I also get that countdown message on other functions when I set it to do that.

My oven also is very accurate in terms of temperature and timing using old recipes and adjusting by lowering the temp 25 degrees for the convection. No excess heat on the door. Fan is very quiet though it runs a long time.

Re the venting. I'd ask the Wolf folks to explain where the top oven vents and see how you find the control panel after it's been on for a while. My concern (from previous experience) is the venting heat + electronics.

Then again, many oven brands vent at the top and others don't seem to have issues with panel heat. I may be overly concerned with that due to a previous bad experience.

I just realized something after reading your comments on another thread. The chef who bake the appetizers left the filter on the convection fan. I asked him about having to remove it for baked goods and he said to leave it in all the time. I had remembered you mentioning something about your biscuits baking unevenly when you forgot to remove the filter. I am thinking this was the issue with his demo....

If that screen was left in during convection baking it will affect results. Definitely.

It's only used for roasting settings -- greasy stuff.

I keep it on the rack as it's easy to forget to remove. But I am forgetful. I sort of trained myself to check the oven before preheating.

That is a minor nuisance. The other one is that I'm not yet expert in programming favorites and get stuck in cycles. The broiler -- which is fabulous and I love -- has a learning curve for the settings.

Before I decided I read the Wolf and Miele manuals throughly. It was clear it would take work to learn the Miele oven programming if I wanted maximum control (alternately I could use the Masterchef settings which I've never used). I made up my mind to just go with the learning curve. For me, the special features felt like an advancement with the appliance. IOW, it's not just a great oven and if I was paying the premium I wanted extra features. It appears (and I'm not making claims for it, this is my impression) to do things other comparable ovens may not, or not in the same way.

I'm still experimenting with which roasting/baking setting to use for various recipes. It's nice because it gives you max control for any recipe -- once you figure out what works best. Sometimes it doesn't matter. I make notes on the recipes or program it in favorites when I figure it out. Then it's like speed dial.

You asked why we ruled out the Miele and the Wolf. Both are great ovens, and we especially liked the Mieles...but like the Dacor, they were both more money than we wanted to spend. There's lots of people here that are very happy with their Mieles, so if you have the budget for them, definitely consider them.

I was at a party last night and the hostess had double wolf ovens. It was kind of fun to show her the button to hide the display panel. (She bought the house with the ovens, didn't pick them herself) They didn't know you could hide the panel and got a kick out of it. Anyway, I was frankly AMAZED at how hot the panel was. And the oven had been off for a while. It literally was too hot to leave your fingers on it for more than a couple seconds. I am really puzzled why Wolf would make an oven with a touch screen display and then vent the oven directly onto the display!

I went AGAIN today to look at the ovens. The Wolf did not vent out on to the display. It was blowing cool air on the bottom of the first oven. However, the left and right sides of the panel felt warm to the touch. I wonder if this is from the motor that rotated the panel. I cant figure out any other reason why it would be warm since it wasnt being used at all.
Now a couple of things I noticed.
If you put a rack on the highest position in the Miele oven, it is VERY close to the rack and would be extremely close to the food.
When you open the Miele oven the broil element is visible and hangs lower into the oven cavity than the Wolf
The Miele seems to have extra coils in the broil element.
The Wolf still seems more solidly built.
Seems like there is more space in the Wolf oven.
The Wolf racks seem a bit heavier than the Miele.

STILL cant decide!

The Dacor ovens look pretty nice. When you open the door it turns the panel on automatically. Nice bright display. Broiler under glass elements. As far as anything else, I dont know.

Thanks for all of the info! I made a sep. post, but do any of you know what the oven capacity of the Navitronic H4890BP2 Multifunction Oven is? The Thermador is 4.7, but I can't find anything for the Miele. Thanks

I am thinking 4.2. For some reason that number sticks in my head, but I am not positive.

cuzvin -- there are 2 broiling zones. You can use the inner coils for small thing or the whole broiler for a full pan. Eliminates burning.

You don't have a bad choice and both are top of the line.

Hi,

This just in from Miele Customer Service - fyi:

The interior capacity for the H 4890 BP2 is 3.78' cubic feet = 24" width x 16" hieght x 17" depth

Smaller than I expected! Miele owners -- any issues cooking large food items?

To compare oven capacity, measure and compare the usable space, not the cubic feet. Measure the accessible width and depth of a rack, then measure the height from the bottom-most rack position to the top rack position.

You've really analyzed the Wolf-Miele differences admirably. Please remember to check that your favorite cookie sheets and other pans will fit in the ovens you want to buy. Cubic feet don't count as much as front-to-back and side-to-side usable space, and it's surprising how many ovens will not hold what I consider a full-sized cookie sheet. (We bought Fisher-Paykel double ovens and love them, and yes, they hold my cookie sheets very nicely.) Good luck with your decision!

Alice

We put the Wolf double ovens in our last house and LOVED them. They were the model from about 2-1/2 years ago, and they vented from the bottom. Has this changed on the new double oven models? (We have since moved and are looking at new appliances - top venting would make me look at other models and not just run out and buy the Wolf).
We never had a problem with a hot control panel or hot doors. At one point we were getting steam in a door, and they replaced the door. (I was very happy with Wolf customer service)
The convection was wonderful, and I used all of the other features and was happy with everything. They were the best ovens we have had to date. (The only other high-end oven we ever had was a Viking gas range in the house before the last one that was there when we moved in - I couldn't stand it. It had very uneven cooking in the oven, and the burners never went low enough for me)
With the Wolf we also bought the bakestone accessory, and I highly recommend it. It was a great feature and I sorely miss it.
The only thing I didn't like was that those giant pizzas from Costco (the big square ones) didn't fit in the oven. But those pizzas are so big I can't imagine they fit in any convection oven!