rmtdog, here is a picture I got from the Viking Quick Reference guide.

It shows pretty well how the controls work, pretty much like any convention gas or electric range, alto I suspect the settings are more accurate, than most ranges, especially gas ones.

Gary

Wow, thanks, Gary. That helps a lot. Even a switch for the oven light! It truly is a model of simplicity.

We still don't know if it requires a 50 or 60
amp circuit. Someone said that 'a while ago
viking required 60 amps'. Is that still true?

Any reason they don't do a 36"?

50 i would say

mtdoug... besides the light switch for the oven , light comes on anytime you open the oven door as you can see from my earlier pic...

Was that the tag on the power cord? Interesting that they say 50 watts there. What Viking's installation guide says is this:

"Electrical Requirements: 240-208 VAC, 60/50 Hz electrical connection box on product, connect with locally supplied 3-wire, flexible cord or "pigtail" rated 60 amp 125-250 VAC minimum. * * *"

And, to add to the adulation, the stove looks great. I really like the knobs.

One question, though: a lot of induction stoves and cooktops have small cooling fans (kind of like the ones you sometimes find on laptop computers.) Are there any on this stove and, if so, where do exhaust?

Here is a link that might be useful: Installation Guide

Ooops. WHen I said: "Interesting that they say 50 watts there..." I meant 50 amps.

that was copied from install manual , pg 10

hey JW...so i see you posted a link to the old install guide from AJ madison .. the pic I took was from Vikings website install guide

use this link http://www.vikingrange.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2810161_F20538.pdf

Hey, thanks for the link. Viking has changed their specs.

Page 7 still says that maximum load for 240V service is 54.9 amps and 51.7 amps for 208V service, but I think that is a theoretical sum of the maximum draw for each of the four surface burners and each of the three oven elements. Doubtless, that numer is where the earlier manual came up with the 60 amp breaker requirement.

However, the actual draw will always be less because the oven never runs more than two of the three oven elements together. From pages 27-37 of the Use and Care Manual, it seems like there are a lot of ways the oven can run the bake, broil and rear convection elements singly and in combination, but no combination uses more than two elements at a time. The actual maximum power draw should never reach 50 amps. If it ever goes over that, then you've got a malfunction and you definitely want that breaker to trip.

This should answer lbpod's question.

Back to mine -- have you found out where the induction cooling fans exhausts from? Maybe they've designed the stove well enough that you don't notice it?

JWVideo - I believe that the induction cooling fans exhaust through the front of the cooktop area, on the underside of the plate rail area above the knobs.

Okay, I can see some vents there in the second photo in luv2putt's original post. Have you used the stove enough to know whether the cooling is obtrusive or not? Judging from the size of the vents, I would guess not.

only venting comes from the top of the stove, rear as you can see from the pics...And this is the vent for the oven...There is no fan for the cooktop..Its as silent as a church mouse while cooking ...There is no electronics to cool..It is vented over the knobs ,but there nothing that is exhausted there by fan..

Thanks JWVideo. You explained it very well.
Now, my only question is: "How much?"
(I'm afraid of what I'm going to hear)

that is a loaded question...Im not going to lie , its expensive ...really expensive...but when I compared it to the electrolux and ge ...the incremental amount for my happiness of the look and style of what I really wanted seemed justified....And by the time I would have added gas lines to my electric kitchen, induction price vs a really good gas range was in the ball park too .... Im not going to give you an exact figure because I got a pretty good deal ...You can get prices from AJ Madison.....I guess to summarize, I have zero buyers remorse !!!!!!

lbpod:

For prices, I started with the link below. Those prices are pretty much the same as what the local dealers charge in my area, except that the locals charge for delivery and AJ Madison gives free shipping to your curb. I've heard varying reports about the local dealers' willingness to negotiate on things like installation charges. Maybe jsceva and luv2putt found things different in the SF Bay Area?

So, the actual cost might or might not be significantly higher depending on where you live and how handy you are. Does your state have a sales tax? Are you handy enough to do the installation yourself or will you need to pay somebody to do it? (Or maybe the dealer will include that cost in the price?) Will your kitchen floor require additional support to carry the 470 pound weight of the stove? Do you already have the 50amp electrical circuit?

In my case, none of those things are problems for me. My state, Montana, does not have a state sales tax. I have done a lot of home renovation work. I already have the 50 amp circuit.

The price is still daunting. The Viking induction stove costs roughly twice the price of the GE and Electrolux slide-in induction ranges that I started with. Well, I suppose you could do a little rationalizing by figuring that the GE and Electrolux cost about $10 per pound and the Viking is only a little more at $15 per pound. Then, it doesn't seem quite so much more expensive. ;-)

But, do I hate touch panels controls and want knobs THAT much? Well, .... almost. Do I want color THAT badly? Well, ..... maybe. Personally, I do not like plain stainless steel appliances, generally, and specifically detest the retro-Jetson spacy styling of the GE and Electrolux induction stoves. Do note that Viking charges extra for colors other than white and black, though. (A further addition to the already daunting price). At least I do not have to worry about 60 amp breakers.

Then, of course, we got Viking's recent history of quality control problems. Kind of like the reputation of Italian sports cars. Viking is trying to turn things around, as luv2putt has pointed out.

So, one side of the brain says this stove is waayyyyyy too expensive while the other side says: "but I realllly want it, anyway."

Here is a link that might be useful: Viking stoves at aj madison

Viking has pretty stict rules on their distributers/retailers. AJMadison will not ship outside their local area on Viking products - when you hit the buy button, you get a little message stating "We are proud to offer delivery of all Viking home appliances to Delaware; New York; New Jersey; Pennsylvania; and parts of Kentucky, Ohio and West Virginia. If you live outside of this delivery area, please shop for a comparable brand online or contact one of our appliance specialists at 800.570.3355 for assistance." When we were shopping, I was unable to find ANY authorized dealer who would ship from outside of our distribution area (Northern California).

There is a small amount of pricing variation between distribution areas, but so far as I can tell within a distribution area there is no variation at all- Every retailer in our area (distribution by GSC in Hayward, California) stuck to the UMRP and quoted me the exact same price. For us, that price was, for a colored range, $7429. My understanding is that a non-colored version in SS would only have been about $500 less, so the color upcharge was pretty steep. However, it is also worth noting that when we bought ours there was an "instant rebate" of $750 on all pro ranges, so we only ended up paying (before tax) $6679, with free delivery.

In our case, everything else we were buying from the store was also UMRP, so they didn't have anything other than delivery to really bargain with...but based on our discussions, I am pretty sure they would have matched or beaten pricing on any non UMRP appliances we had also bought through them at the same time, to get our business.

The price is very high compared to the Electrolux or GE ranges...but maybe the better comparison is to a 30" induction cooktop + wall oven combo from a comparable high-end brand. For example, on AJMadison the Miele 30" cooktop is $3099 and a 30" Masterchef oven is $4299, in stainless only, for a total of $7398 - about $1200 more than the Viking range is SS after discount. Looking a little lower, the Thermador 30" induction cooktop is $2499 and the oven is $2899, for a total of $5399. That's about $800 less than the Viking range in SS with discount, but that spread is not too bad.

In our case, getting the color we wanted with the flexibility of a free-standing range was worth it to us...we figured that in the event it turns out to be a mistake, at least it's easy to replace!

JWvideo, i have to tell you your logic was very similar to mine when checking out a range...I studied every spec , poured thru every brochure...I tried to convince myself i could be happy with the electrolux or the ge.... but when actually looked at the them , touched them ..I was disinterested ...And I hated the touch controls ...And I was frustrated that i couldnt find a viking to look at...That was until , I found a brochure about a cooking demo and brunch at my local viking distributor the jesceva mentioned ...Not only did I go to the brunch , but spent a couple of hours a week earlier going through their showroom on a private tour...Think of it as a gallery of kitchens with every product viking makes...I also got to play with the range ...In the end , i bought what I really wanted, that makes me smile every time I look at it , that amazes me every time I use it , and at price that I could justify without making compromises ...

Always glad to hear somebody got what they really wanted!!!

We've had our Elux Icon oven and speed oven over 5 years now, and the Icon Induction cooktop for over two years, and they all work as brand new, and we are just as happy with them as the day we bought them.

We had No Budget for the kitchen and bought what "WE Wanted", not what some of our friends and neighbors "Thought we out to have", (Like an SZ Fridge), but we really like our Jenn-air that even back 5 years ago was about half the price of the SZ.

So, "Different Strokes for different Folks", No knobs, not a huge amount spent, but we're Happy Happy!!!

Gary

I looked at the manual a while back and didn't see timer for each hob -- any chance they have added that? Or is there boil over shutdown as a feature? I want induction and currently have a range so the easiest way to make the transition would be a range but none of them have these features!! I love the idea of using it like a rice cooker to turn off automatically, also love the Miele idea of one button to suspend (if I have to run out for 5 min to get kids etc). Any extra features like that I might have missed???

One more question -- do you have any Le Creuset cookware? I read something somewhere which seemed odd that the Le Creuset didnt' work with Viking Induction (I think it was on the Induction site) -- seems so odd since it is almost the gold standard of what does work on Induction. I'd love to have some confirmation that they work as that is what I have this is induction friendly.

The Le Creuset problem was with the Viking induction hotplates, not the cooktops or ranges. It was very strange, nonetheless.

However, I did notice this little gem of pettifoggery on page 15 of Viking's Use and Care Manual:

"To avoid risk of property damage, DO NOT use cast iron cookware. Cast iron retains heat and may result in damage to the range." (emphasis in original.)

Say what?

Sound like management has succumbed to weasels?

Glad to hear the Le Creuset problem wasn't on this range! It loooks like we might be going this way too. It is much easier to go with the range and I like the looks of this better than the other ranges. I'd still prefer cooktop but there is a lot more work to do that to cabinets and counters.

> Sound like management has succumbed to weasels?

Sounds like they've succumbed to lawyers. Even worse than weasels.

Laura

Nah, just a different subset. Not all lawyers are that way, of course. I make my living by providing services to for lawyers, so I have first hand experience with the good and the bad. That said, it is usually a step towards disaster when you let lawyers run your business because they will often have you try to avoid saying anything meaningful and then you stop doing anything meaningful. My favorite lawyer joke: what happens when the godfather is a lawyer? You get an offer you can't understand! That seems appropos here because who would buy an induction stove that cannot be used with ANY cast iron pots and pans.

so hey ya'll ...lets talk about big red !!!
POSTVT... cast iron works great and so does Le Creuset !!! I have a few pcs and they all work incredibly well !!!! And now lets talk about why I love this range ...Lack of electronics !!! So no, there is no boil over feature ...And thank god there is no timer on the hobs , so if you want to lift and flip, walk over to the sink to drain a few liquids, do what ever..as soon as you lift the pan the power stops ..and as soon as you set the pan down provided you left knob turned on , it just starts again .... no electronics messing with your cooking ..just a simple red light on the range top flashes letting you know that knob is turned to a setting..
I really cant explain how much fun it is to cook on induction ....And Im happy to answer any questions ...Brad

It has electronics. Just not any that you would notice.

I suspect the warning about cast iron is due to the possibility of it scratching the surface (cast iron can be gritty). Below is what Lodge (which makes cast iron cookware) has to say about avoiding this problem.

BTW - I am a lawyer - and we wind up with all these stupid warnings because consumers are amazingly creative in terms of thinking up ways to misuse products (and juries wind up agreeing with consumers in many cases - not manufacturers - even when a person with a shred of common sense wouldn't do what the consumer did). Robyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Lodge And Induction Cooking

hey weed ...i realize it has electronics ...maybe poor choice of words when referring to bells and whistles...even the knobs are merely a potentiometer...but it is simple ... i will trust a simple knob over a wave touch control any day !!

Congrats, that is one good looking appliance!

FYI the timers I was looking for are the ones that turn the burner off after your allotted time (for rice cooking etc) not the ones that shut off if you lift the pan!!

Postvt...like i said ...no timers ...no clocks ..no auto turn off ...no magical settings ...seriously no bells or whistles ...more like a 70's muscle car ...just brute force that you drive like nobody's watchin.....I have to tell you it just feels solid ...

"I suspect the warning about cast iron is due to the possibility of it scratching the surface (cast iron can be gritty)."

In addition to using parchment paper as suggested in the Lodge and Induction Site link, other folks use plain old paper towels and, in addition, there are some active threads here and at eGullet about ways to use silicon baking sheet material.

Frankly, I put this warning in the same category as the mistake in the earlier manual which specified a 60 amp circuit. That spec was inserted as a "CYA" by somebody who did not know how the product actually works.

It gives me pause because, first, such mistakes should not be made with the manual for a product this much more expensive than the competition and this long on the market. (The manual is an on-line PDF. It is easy to fix just like they did with the oversize breker specfication.) Second, it makes me worry that Viking would refuse warranty coverage it they discovered I had ever used any cast iron with the range. There is and has been a prevalent subculture of manufacturers trying to wriggle and cheat on warranties.

"Because consumers are amazingly creative in terms of thinking up ways to misuse products (and juries wind up agreeing with consumers in many cases - not manufacturers - even when a person with a shred of common sense wouldn't do what the consumer did)"

I cannot let that comment go without a little more ranting at weasels. I think the "absolutely no cast iron" statement was the product of ignorance and unfounded, misdirected fear.

Now, as for the the idea of folks getting paid for idiotically harming themselves, I would say that this not factual, but it is nonetheless extremely pervaive idea. I could say I've had thirty years of investigating and working injury and products liablity cases for lawyers and, at least in this part of the country, the idiots do not get beyond an initial interview. (Products liability cases are handled as contingency fee cases, which means the lawyer only gets paid if he or she wins; no lawyer I know will voluntarily take a losing case.) I can say that every supposedly outrageous "run-away" products liability jury verdict I've ever heard about has turned out to be one of two things. Either complete fiction (e.g., the supposed $x million dollar verdict against Winnebago because some bozo in an RV thought cruise control was an autopilot and got up from the driver's seat to use the bathroom while driving on an interstate in [your state's name here]). Or else, the real case had a lot more facts than your hear in the urban legend version, the Macdonald's hot-coffee case being a prime example.

Whether that stuff is true or not does not matter. What matters is that we have is fear of such things. Many people also have a subconscious belief that plaintiffs lawyers work magic ju-ju that gets folks more than they are entitled to. (Lobbyists do that kin of ju-ju with legislators but trial lawyers work in courts where legal work is drudgery, tv shows to the contrary notwithstanding.)

And as I mentioned we also have a subculture of trying to wriggle and cheat on warranties.

Worst of all, we have people reviewing and passing on these things - be they lawyers, risk managers or just company flacks --- who are ignorant about the product or products.

So much stock goes into that fear and ignorance, that we wind up with a proliferation of meaningless warnings --- like don't put your hand into the spinning lawnmower blade, don't stick your tongue in that 240V outlet, etc. All of those seemingly needless warnings distract us from seeing what really needs to be warned about and leads to the ignorant passing on of stuff that is just plain misleading and wrong.

I see the "no cast iron" warning being one more example of the latter.

The warning about cast iron and "residual heat" strikes me as fear and ignorance about how the stove works rather than a mis-stated attempt to warn about scratching. After all, most manuals for radiant-burner smoothtop stoves have warnings about scratching with bare cast iron, ridged -bottom cookware, and etc. They have had them for decades. But the Viking manual does not give that warning. It flat out forbids all cast iron, even even enameled cast iron.

What were they thinking? That somebody might use cast iron on an induction stove and not know the pan will take some time to fully cool down? Nope, that would be "personal injury." They are only talking about "property damage." Maybe they need to warn us about personal injury, too? "You must not use any cast iron cookware on or near the stove because you might drop it and burn yourself because cast iron retains heat."

Is this a replay of the decades old saw about large diameter pots causing ceram surfaces to fracture? (The problem actually is that oversize pots may give misleading readings to the control sensors for radiant burners and, rather than overheating, keep the burner from getting hot enough to boil water.)

It seems to me that residual heat in cast iron cannot be a real problem unless there is either something wrong with Viking's product. Seems more likely that the people who inserted the language did understand the product. For one thing, Ceram is supposedly heat-schock resistant up to 750 degrees F. If you've got cast iron that hot, you did not do it on the stove.

Actually, there is a selling and safety point here about induction: if the pan gets too hot (and 750 degrees is way too hot) the stove will shut down. That will happen whether you use Lodge cast iron or All Clad Stainless or whatever.

And, never mind that folks are using the "intermediary" parchment with other cookware, thick stainless-clad cookware can do a pretty good job with residual heat, too. Should we be warning people not to cook with the stove at all?

Sorry for the rant. It is a long way around to explaining why I put the manual's "absolutely no cast iron" warning in the same category as the now revoked specification for a 60 amp breaker, which we discussed above.

Dear JWVideo, Is the warning about cast iron in the manual for the countertop single hob unit or for the viking induction cooktop or range/stovetop? It should say on the front of the manual. It is on page 15 of which manual?

From the Induction Site-
(It looks as if Viking's newer units--the VICU206 and the VICU266--represent a step back from the power levels used in the VICU105 and VICU165 units that the new ones so nearly match otherwise; that suggests that Viking has become aware that they may have crowded too much heat-generating power into too small an under-the-hood space in the original models, leading to the anecdotally many reports of early failures.)
From numerous reports reaching us, Viking's induction units are highly prone to problems--not so much failures (though their overall reliability record, according to various respected third-party sources, is not good) as actual inherent design defects (for example, their countertop unit is known to not work with Le Creuset cookware even though that cookware is solidly induction-usable on every other induction unit in the known universe). Moreover, Viking's customer service leaves a lot to be desired, at least when it comes to induction units (that "something" is some faint understanding of what induction is and how it works--things they have told customers would make your hair curl).

We disrecommend Viking induction equipment, and of course do not retail it.

So it looks like they are forbidding the use of cast iron because, unlike every other induction product, it does not work on theirs.

westsider:

It is the Use and Care Manual for the 30-inch VISC induction range. I've linked to the manual below. On page 15 there is a box with a warning sign and the word "CAUTION" against a black background.

danl888:

"So it looks like they are forbidding the use of cast iron because, unlike every other induction product, it does not work on theirs."

You might think so from that idiotic caution in the manual, but LeCreuset and every other kind of cast iron actually works just fine. Luv2putt confirmed that about 10 posts back.

The induction site has had that statement for quite some time. Your quotation includes the Induction Site's opinion that Viking customer service leaves something to be desired and "that 'something' is some faint understanding of what induction is and how it works--things they have told customers would make your hair curl."

I say, "Boy, howdy, don't that seem true?"

Giving Viking some credit, it has been making an effort to repair its credibility and gain customer trust. Some of its problems were self-inflicted and some were caused by distributors and vendors. Recent efforts like the increased warranty coverage and good support from the Bay Area distributor were enough to persuade Luv2Putt and Jsceva to but the range.

Half my brain is dubious about that. The other half looks at the pictures and says I want that!

Here is a link that might be useful: Use and Care Manual

Thank you, JWVideo. Oh my, there are so, so, so many warnings, I'd be afraid to touch that beautiful thing. The high number of disclaimers and warnings about everything possible under the sun waters down the impact of each individual warning. I would not use cast iron on viking, tho, because of the specificity of the warning. I have two cast iron pots which I use for bread, only.

Cast iron is recommended/allowed on my Bosch induction, but I do not care for it for two reasons. One is the retention of heat and one of the beauties of induction is the rapid responsiveness. I can change from a med/high heat to a simmer and the induction cooktop will change instantly-but the pots need to change quickly, too. And cast iron doesn't change quickly. Second, they are very heavy and I can have a different pot perform equally well without that weight.

Thanks again for your work.

While I think there is no reason to avoid using cast iron on induction, I also think that it is not required, either. If they do not work for your cooking and/or are to heavy for you, don't use them. Personally, I find cast iron very useful for some of the things I make and will not hesitate to use them with an induction stove if an when I ever get around to acquiring one.

Thank you, JWVideo. Oh my, there are so, so, so many warnings, I'd be afraid to touch that beautiful thing. The high number of disclaimers and warnings about everything possible under the sun waters down the impact of each individual warning. I would not use cast iron on viking, tho, because of the specificity of the warning. I have two cast iron pots which I use for bread, only.

Cast iron is recommended/allowed on my Bosch induction, but I do not care for it for two reasons. One is the retention of heat and one of the beauties of induction is the rapid responsiveness. I can change from a med/high heat to a simmer and the induction cooktop will change instantly-but the pots need to change quickly, too. And cast iron doesn't change quickly. Second, they are very heavy and I can have a different pot perform equally well without that weight.

Thanks again for your work.

Thank you, JWVideo. Oh my, there are so, so, so many warnings, I'd be afraid to touch that beautiful thing. The high number of disclaimers and warnings about everything possible under the sun waters down the impact of each individual warning. I would not use cast iron on viking, tho, because of the specificity of the warning. I have two cast iron pots which I use for bread, only.

Cast iron is recommended/allowed on my Bosch induction, but I do not care for it for two reasons. One is the retention of heat and one of the beauties of induction is the rapid responsiveness. I can change from a med/high heat to a simmer and the induction cooktop will change instantly-but the pots need to change quickly, too. And cast iron doesn't change quickly. Second, they are very heavy and I can have a different pot perform equally well without that weight.

Thanks again for your work.

So just to set your mind at ease, the first pan I used on this range was was a cast iron grill to try some chicken that was finished off in the oven And i did get it hot to get those great grill marks...the range survived without incident!!!! I bought this range to use it!!!!! And I must say its raised my level of skills ...Its the results I had wanted when i first started looking at gas ranges and what i had hoped for after deciding to go induction...also , I cant tell you how easy it is to keep clean also !!!! My mantra is the same ...And always , feel free to write mre directly if you have any questions at all !!!

How is your range doing after some time using it?? Mine is in a box waiting to get installed (remodeling).

I'm looking into what new pans to get to replace the ones I have that are not magnetic for induction. I still find the no cast iron in the manual both odd and alarming. I have some le creuset that I love. I am uncertain if I should use it. I would buy more too except with the warning I'm leaning towards other choices.

Curious to know how yours has been now. Are you regularly using cast iron? It is so odd thst they recommend enameled but not cast iron. So where does le creuset fit in.

Blasting cool cast iron with high power induction might break it. Putting very hot cast iron on a cool area of a smooth top might break the smooth top.

Postvt...sorry , i havent been on here in a while and just saw this ... so my range is nearly 3 months old and has performed beyond my expectations ..And I have used cast iron without issues including le creuset..... I too bought all new pans .. going with a combo of all clad and american kitchen saute pans ,2 analon non stick pans and emerils for my pots .... I cant ecpress how much fun it is cooking on it , not to mention what a breeze it is to clean up ...If you ever have any questions please feel free to write me direct at luv2putt@yahoo.com Brad

Can we have an update on your Viking induction range? Any problems so far?

Don't know if you saw my updates , here is a link.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2296438/racing-red-induction-1yr-later?n=13

I still love my range for all the same reasons ...it still looks great and nd has had zero issues

Brad

Gorgeous!

I love induction and wouldn't switch to anything else but I have to say that I am not happy with new Viking ownership. I have the 36 inch cooktop and the thing buzzes like crazy and 2 burners failed. Of course they say the warranty doesn't cover the electronics after 3 years even though it says 5 years for parts. It will cost over $2,000 to fix and that is just for two burners! I am going to just cook on the other 4 and when they fail go with a more reliable brand. There are so many to choose from now. When I was researching, there wasn't much info out there but a few people did say that the Viking brand has quality issues and I am sad I didn't listen to them.

I have been using the electrolux induction slide in range for over 3 years now. Its in a peninsula with no hood over it as electrolux said I didn't need one - and they wore correct. The burners are fabulous -water boils quickly and you can cook anything to perfection. I did not buy expensive pans - Macy's and Walmart brands. The oven is a dream to bake cookies and cakes in - they always come out perfect using timing given in recipes. The Viking may be prettier, but the electrolux is less expensive with a very spacious oven plus a smaller low oven. Quality wise I had only one issue and customer service fixed it in less then a week. (a part had to be obtained.)

I can only say good things about the unit and the wonderful customer service. Would suggest anyone wanting induction consider this range because it is less problematic them Vikings. BTW, a store near me in NJ allowed me to come in and test drive the Electrolux burners and oven before purchase.