I checked with the factory this morning. And amazingly the certification range used in the factory (NOT MY PROTOTYPE RANGE) has been certified with ALL burners at 23k btu.

So the answer is as many as you want................

HOLY (SEARED) COW!!!!!

"I think I'm going to need a bigger hood/blower...."

With apologies to Richard Dreyfuss in "Jaws."

Sayde -

Sure, happy to.

I am loathe to speak up because I'm no expert on ranges -- the nicest range we've had before was something from the 70s. But here were my layman's impressions:

+s for the capital:
Better burners (mostly per Trevor's tests on video, but he did replicate the saucepan water boil when we were there)
Hotter broiler (per Trevor's tests)
less expensive than the bluestar (by a little)
Less seams in the SS.
Rounded rather edge on the front rather than a sharp point
rotisserie in the oven
One module for each burner, so that they didn't all try to light when you turned one on
nicer drip tray -- it just pulled out better (fit and finish)
cooler oven door
Nicer racks
Nicer grill (at least according to trevor, we weren't exactly an expert)

-s for the capital
Risk of buying a new product
the oven was slightly smaller (likely going to be fixed because they're lowering the bottom rack maybe). It looks a lot smaller, but measured, it was only an inch or so
The handles on the oven door were massive -- maybe a half an inch thicker than all the other ovens (this is more of a personal choice than a real negative
The grates for the burners were one piece rather than two piece. So, unlike the BlueStar, more of the overflow / crumbs would go through them rather than be caught by them. This makes the crumb rack more important -- and they're still working to move it closer to the burner and give it a lip to hold things better. This was the main thing we didn't like about the "design", but granted, it isn't a huge deal.

Those were just our general impressions. We're still trying to decide 60 in vs 48 in + 2 wall ovens -- gotta figure it out this week, I think

-ben

I saw the Capital Precision yesterday.

Same as the Culinarian save the burners/grates.

Love the huge fat oven handle.

But if you are a woman or a little guy maybe it is too big.

The design looks more substantial in person vs the pics.

A litte less feminine, a little more Hummer.

The oven cavity is two inches wider on the BS 30" vs Capital 30".

I guess the Capital has more insulation resulting in less heat into the kitchen but smaller capacity.

I was not impressed with the flex-roll oven racks.

They just seemed ok. I thought they would pull out farther.

I also visted the Capital Distributor in Southern California.

They have a live 60" Capital Precision. They said they will get a live Culinarian soon.

Retail customers are encouraged to come and cook on the range. You don't need to be a retailer or to be accomanied by a retailer.

Capital distributor in Southern California

VHM Marketing 714-523-1511
7050 Valley View St., Buena Park, CA 90620

Thank you Deeageaux and Benself. I appreciate it. For those of us making a decision it would be good to know: what fixes are being made by Blue Star -- single point ignition? hinges? insulation? sparkers? ignitors? silk screening versus imprinting on the knobs? and what do the line-build models of Capital look like? Will there be an alternative handle (NXR offers two different ones) for those of us who like the traditional square pro style?

Following up everything that I've read so far including recent response to my question on Blue Star fixes, I'm trying to make a decision between Culinarian and Blue Star. My personal tally of + and - --I emphasize personal, YMMV

Blue Star +
The burners -- still the best design (I think) considering cleaning and looks as well as performance -- IMO --????
The look of the stove. Love it or hate it -- I think it looks like a Viking on steroids and I like it
You can get a rolling rack
I don't really care about the huge oven or color but mention anyway.

Blue Star -

Still some concerns about the oven, the fit and finish, silkscreened knobs.
Hot door. For me, minor.
Still some concerns about customer service but I would buy from Eurostoves and trust that I'd be OK
The hinges and the clicking should be over . . . .

Capital +

Great fit and finish. Very important. Very.
Burner performance is fabulous but is cleaning as nice as Blue Star? From a looks perspective, IMO Blue Star wins and it is just a subjective design thing -- Capital is more nicely made, for sure. The old Garland burners just have a magical allure. May-be if I saw Capital in person I would change my mind. Anyway, the Capital burners are still a big, big +.

For many folks, the rotisserie and the self clean would be (are) major benefits that Blue Star doesn't have. But not to me. I would be opting for the manual clean version. I hate to clean my oven so much that any messy meat goes outside on the Green Egg, even in the depth of winter.

Capital -

No rolling rack on the manual clean (minor. I can live with the regular racks).

The big thick handle on the oven. This would be minor to most people but to me it just matters. A square handle would be a game changer. Crazy, I know.

It's going to be one or the other and I will have to decide soon. Any other thoughts out there ?

I have the exact same comparison running through my head and unfortunately I am really stuck as well. Like you, the handle is really throwing me off. I know it is silly because it is actually for cooking and not looking, but I just can't help it. I think I just am so used to the Bluestar looks that I am having a hard time switching.

Another silly point is the color. I had one of the 190 colors picked out and I am having a hard time giving it up. I am kind of waiting to see what color options Capital comes up with.

I am a little concerned about delivery. Will they be able to deliver mid-August to September as promised.

I am looking forward to hearing about everyone's decisions out here.

sayde,

I think the Culinarian has the better burner,more even heat,more BTU plus hidden ignitor. No cracking the ignitor while cleaning.

Bluestar has the better grates. Pull and drop in a wok is cool.

Bluestar has old school/Julia Child Garland street cred. ROTFLMAO

Design is a flip for me.

Bluestar is

Capital is

{{gwi:1424409}}

Different.

Bluestar is more in your face bold.

Capital is more subtle.

Both American Originals.

Very helpful post deeageaux. Have you made up your mind yet?

Before I pull the trigger I will need to see a Culinarian in person.

The left side of my brain says get the more effective higher quality range.

The right side of my brain says; R U Nuts? quench the lust you have had for sooooo long.

Will I be able to pick a Culinarian door oven and toekick from all 190 RAL colors Bluestar style or will I have to pick from a half a dozen or so colors Bertazzoni style?

I think the Culinarian will be priced $500 above the Capital Precision and maybe $100 below the Bluestar once color is added. But we don't really know yet.

Since my kitchen is not falling apart it will probably be parylisis by analysis. I will wait to see how things work out with these new Bluestar VI upgrades and see reviews of Culinarian owners. And remodel next spring.

Although the original plan was blow up the kitchen as I write this.

Well, I have put off my remodel as long as I can. I hope to order around the first of July and install somewhere around the first of September. I may be without a range with the Capital but if I decide on it, I can wait. I might get used to life with a toaster oven, crock pot, MW and grill.

I guess it is good to have choices.

The timing of this conversation is perfect, and I very much appreciate the inputs many of you have contributed to it. My wife and I just finished designing a house that we plan to build this summer on the edge of a lake in southeast Orlando, and while we're both enthusiastic cooks, I get to spec the kitchen appliances. :-)

I had pretty well determined to get a Bluestar range when the Culinarian topic popped up.

And while I'm sure I could be deliriously happy with either a BS or the Culinarian, I have to confess that I think occasionally in terms of possible resale that the Capital might be easier on the eyes of your average homebuyer eyeballing what realtors love to call a "gourmet kitchen." The industrial strength look of the BS just says "serious about cooking" to me, but I'm afraid that it might be a bit too purposeful for Joe and Jane Doe, homebuyers.

Well, no matter. By the time we're ready for the range, the Capitals should be in the marketplace, whatever the latest Bluestar improvements are will be disclosed, and I'll have a difficult but happy choice to make.

The timing of this conversation is perfect, and I very much appreciate the inputs many of you have contributed to it. My wife and I just finished designing a house that we plan to build this summer on the edge of a lake in southeast Orlando, and while we're both enthusiastic cooks, I get to spec the kitchen appliances. :-)

I had pretty well determined to get a Bluestar range when the Culinarian topic popped up.

And while I'm sure I could be deliriously happy with either a BS or the Culinarian, I have to confess that I think occasionally in terms of possible resale that the Capital might be easier on the eyes of your average homebuyer eyeballing what realtors love to call a "gourmet kitchen." The industrial strength look of the BS just says "serious about cooking" to me, but I'm afraid that it might be a bit too purposeful for Joe and Jane Doe, homebuyers.

Well, no matter. By the time we're ready for the range, the Capitals should be in the marketplace, whatever the latest Bluestar improvements are will be disclosed, and I'll have a difficult but happy choice to make.

Sorry for the DP. No idea why the second one appeared after I had shut down and relocated to my hotel room, waking up the computer more than thirty minutes later.

I looked at the FAQ and instuructions for how to delete/edit a post, but struck out.

The real beauty here is there is now two open burner top of the line ranges to choose from. Choice is good. Our Kenmore was at the time the top of the line and it cooks well enough. However time to move on and get away from the electronics which we have had to replace the back panel twice, thank you repair clinic that provided the parts and hubby who fixed it himself.(Sears wanted a fortune)

Personally the more rounded look suits me and I used the dimensions of the Capital P to check the oven on the Kenmore. I will give up a bit in over all height and width, but gain more depth>> Which is important to me. Cleaning can't be worse than the KM which is a royal PITA.

Besides the new Capital just feels right, I wasn't planning on getting a new range at this time. I'm a trust your gut kinda person:-)

Odie girl, I think it is for cooking and looking. I don't accept the premise that one must make a trade off. And good design shouldn't necessarily cost more either! (Fit and finish -- that's costly, another story, and worth it).

Capital seems to have been extraordinarily responsive in delivering what the customer wants so I trust they will listen to the voices who are asking for a nice straightforward handle -- hefty is alright-- just change the brackets!

Which one, if either, has the lower available simmer?

Blustar marketing says its 10k simmer burner can hold 130 degrees. Most post I see say that is not the case. Although it is usually the case that it is whiners that post more. More like 180 degrees is what is reported by owners.

In Eurostoves test the Capital 8.5k simmer burner holds 138 degrees.

Can you trade in stoves like cars??? I have the Capital Precison, comes with extra set of pink knobs....less than a year old....ok, ok, that's fine, I still really like my range.

I will say I've been very happy with Capital's customer service. Although they haven't responded to my email about why are the cabernet knobs pink....maybe soon I'll hear from them.

Good luck to those who are trying to make this decision.

OK a quick poll in the store on the color of these knobs staff and customers said

Brown Red
Burgundy
maroon
Pinky red
Oxide red
Claret violet

Clearly with such a diverse response this is a useless post....lol

Simmer range is considered to be 138-140 degrees. 180 is curdle territory for delicate sauces like bearnaise or creme anglaise or something like lemon curd. get up around 160 and eggs unprotected by starch will begin to lump up. butter separates between 160-180F. For reference, semisweet chocolate without additional butter or oil can seize about 110 -- the same range of temperature for liquid used to proof yeast.

this link takes you to the page where you can see the optional square end caps.

Here is a link that might be useful: Square End Caps

Posted at Sayde's request

Thank you rococogurl.

I think these look better than the rounded brackets -- not sure they look $200 better but most certainly better. Now, I would love to see the range, with these brackets, in black.

Trevor,

Do you think you will sell 50 capital ranges to 1 bluestar now? Maybe a different ratio like 30 to 20? 25 to 25?

Moelarrycurly...... To be honest it all depends on what the customers wants and needs are.....It will however be a nice change to give our customers the option of two open burner ranges Capital or Bluestar....

We can see from posts above there is a place for both brands to thrive in a growing sector of people who love to cook. Both brands offer different things to different people.

And I think our experience and knowledge in the open burner market allows us to advise customers correctly, so the customer purchases what fits them best.

I guess only time will tell.

The range sounds like a dream. It doesn't look like one to my eyes. I think 4 changes could possibly fix the aesthetic issues I have with it:
1) a squared off oven door handle, as mentioned above.
2) a windowless oven door--hopefully this will be an option down the road.
3) solid colour knobs without the chrome strip.
4) i'd like to see its feet, preferably on casters.

If you do 1,3 and 4 as wolfgang80 proposed, you are approaching the look of the Wolf Dual Fuel -- not a bad thing!

I personally like the squared off look but I think the new handle brackets and may-be solid black knobs with deep metal ferrules would get Capital about 80% there.

beekeeper - whatever happened with the grates (I think that was you).

I am also curious about a trade-in.

My question is about the interior dimensions of the oven. After 4 years with a Bluestar we have moved to a new house without one. Our plan was to get another Bluestar as soon as we had the funds available. With the new Capital range it's no longer so obvious.

Between the 23K btu burners and the rotisserie we're rather interested in the Capital, but is the Capital oven as large as the Bluestar? Will the 30" Capital range fit a full 18x26" sheet pan? If not, this would be enough to keep us in the Bluestar for our next Range purchase.

Will the 30" Capital range fit a full 18x26" sheet pan? If not, this would be enough to keep us in the Bluestar for our next Range purchase.

The 30" Culinarian will have a 24" wide oven cavity.

The 36" will have a 27" wide and 21" deep oven cavity.

So 30" NO, 36" Yes.

scott_s....not wanting to drag this thread off-topic, but I am curious, why do people want the full sheet pan in the oven? Do you really use a full sheet pan to bake - and if so what for? Also, if you do use a full sheet does it impede the air circulation/temp control of the oven at all? I do use a half sheet, but I guess I am not really a cookie person so never need to go full - mind you I have just spent 16 years with an ancient single 27" electric wall oven so I was quite used to repeat small batches etc. Just wondering... thanks...

This new range does sound fabulous...people looking remodel/purchase this summer are certainly spoilt for choice what with the rumors of the new updated Bluestar aswell.

Does anyone know the dimensions of the oven cavity on the 30'' and the 36''? Just curious. My current oven is tiny!

Does anyone know the dimensions of the oven cavity on the 30'' and the 36''? Just curious. My current oven is tiny!

They are both 21" deep and 14" high.

30" Range has 24" wide oven cavity.
36" Range has 27" wide oven cavity.

They can both take a 25 lbs Turkey.

I love what I am reading about the functionality of this range. It is a very strong contender for our remodel this fall/winter.

There are just a couple of items that bug me aesthetically. I would really like to see the legs on the oven rather than having a rectangular metal panel flush with the floor. (Is that a storage drawer or just a panel?)

I would also prefer a more squared off handle like the Wolf, as it would blend better with other appliance and hardware choices. The angled brackets being offered as an option are acceptable, but the $200 upcharge is not.

Solid black knobs without the chrome would also be nice, but that is not as big an issue for me as the legs and the handle.

Count me as another that has some pretty major hang-ups with the appearance. It just has too much gleam for me with the handle and the knob appearance. I really think this is the best range for me, but I can't get over the looks (which is odd for me). It needs to look more basic, less fussy. Can't justify paying more for a simpler handle either.

Cooks trumps looks.

As we know Capital can change the handle ends to the square style in the photo's above.

When it comes to the knobs they are what they are....sorry

However I understand that black knobs can be purchased by anyone as an after market item.

Trevor - I feel as if I have slit my own throat by suggesting that the cabernet knobs come standard on the Culinarian.

If the knobs were to look like those on the Capital website, then lovely:

If they are like the ones on the Eurostove website, not so much:

And if they are like the ones that beekeeperswife is putting up for sale on eBay, then I am singularly unimpressed:

I've stayed out of the fray wrt to the looks of the Culinarian that I have happily committed to purchase one of the first to roll off the line. I rather fancy the way it looks. However, after all the effort that has gone into planning this kitchen with classic white cabinets, marble, etc., etc., I would be reluctant to have it spoilt by those hideous knobs.

For a company that is trying to promote the idea of a "bespoke" range, it is grating that the black knobs, which are standard on the other lines, are an upcharge on the Culinarian when they can't cost them a dime more. Its like paying protection money to the mob so that those unfortunate red knobs do not appear in my kitchen to ruin it.

bl**dy h3ll!!! (slinks off in the corner to mutter & grumble) b*ll*cks!

How did I miss the black knobs being an upcharge?

I think there might be some confusion that Trevor can clear up with a single post I'm sure. The "black" knobs that are talked about as an upcharge item is the solid black (no chrome stripe). As I understood it, the black (with chrome) is standard on the range.

Trevor, please correct or explain.

I think when Trevor said "black knobs can be purchased. . ." he meant all-black knobs like on Wolf or Viking. Someone had objected that the standard knobs on Capital are a steel with black inserts instead of all black. The red knobs are not the default knobs! The ones that "come with" the range are metal with black inserts.

Dr Jo Black knobs (similar to most other ranges) are not an up charge they are simply not available.....

The Grey knobs are standard on the Culinarian range as per most pictures on the Culinarian website, but you can change to the red ones at no cost should you wish.

I don't think any of the pictures are a true reflection of the real color of the Red /Cabernet / Maroon knobs.

I don't think that Capital are trying to promote themselves as a "Bespoke" company, and I hope I have not painted them as such. They are however trying to accommodate SOME of the wishes of the Garden Web Posters which is a good thing. If they tried to accommodate everyone the spec book would be huge and unaffordable.

Anytime anyone asks for something different companies charge for that change, be it Bluestar, Wolf or anyone else.

Umm, when Trevor was polling the "previewers" for ideas to take out to CA when he went to Capital, I suggested that the cabernet knobs be the standard for the Culinarian rather than an upcharge to distinguish it from the other lines. He really liked the idea & planned to have it implemented.

If the black knobs with the SS stripe are the Culinarian standard, I'm fine with that. I just don't want to have to pay more to rid myself of the pukey "pink" ones.

Well, at least I didn't have to dig deeper into my British cuss words. LOL!!!!

A flurry of posts

Chrome with Grey Insert...... standard
Chrome with Red Insert........ optional at no charge
All Black knobs ..............Not available from Capital.

Dr Jo when you suggested the red knobs as standard, I took that to Capital, they agreed to offer them as a non chargeable option, but did not agree to have them as the standard knob.

Normally the red knobs are an up charge for Precession line.

Sorry for the confusion.......

Trevor - Ah, OK, then I will stick with standard black. I like the cabernet from the Capital website, but I don't care for what it transmogrified into when they became the red knobs that are shown on your website.

Thanks - Jo Ann

I don't think that Capital are trying to promote themselves as a "Bespoke" company, and I hope I have not painted them as such.

From a page on the Eurostoves Culinarian site (and in large red font):

"Capital is a very bespoke company and as such if you have any special requests or configurations they will do all within their power to come through for you."

??
:-)

Gardenweb limits threads to 150 posts. Odiegirl or another will need to start a new thread for this discussion. Personally, I begin to suspect it all as "too good to be true."

Will it be long before the posts start to roll in about how the oven whistles at you when you do not wear appropriate kitchen attire or pots melt to the grates and set off your Geiger counters? People's cats will begin to disappear, Grannie's pacemaker goes haywire, and suddenly the folks at Capital won't return anyones phone calls unless Trevor calls them and threatens to send the Boondock Saints over for a chat! Where will it all end? Not this thread, that's for sure!